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This is very obvious to even the blind on this forum !!!!!
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Allanfan20
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5/11/2006  3:38 PM
Every year, a new message board savior. Every year, we kick out a new superstar poster but every year, we fail to realize why Bip talks to himself on these message boards. Perhaps he needs therapy, or maybe he needs to team up with Kobe in the octagon.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
AUTOADVERT
Bippity10
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5/11/2006  3:52 PM
Watch it Allanfan. Remember I will always be your elder!
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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5/11/2006  3:53 PM
I think pretty much everyone on this site is on the exact same page in one regard. We all think we stink and have little hope. It's just taht some think we stink because of Marbs. Some think we stink because of LB. And others think we stink because we are simply the worst run organization in THE HISTORY OF MODERN SPORTS.
I just hope that people will like me
oohah
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5/11/2006  4:07 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

And others think we stink because we are simply the worst run organization in THE HISTORY OF MODERN SPORTS.

That one is hard to argue. Remember those Mets teams in the late 80's early 90's? They were dubbed: "The worst team money can buy!"

The Knicks have blown that Mets team away in that regard.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Bippity10
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5/11/2006  4:27 PM
Yeah we make that Mets team look like the Bulls of the 90's.
I just hope that people will like me
Nalod
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5/11/2006  4:27 PM
HollBury,

BUtler, Reezy, Nate, Barnes, Qdog, Frye, Nate, and DLee.

8 young players all got lots of playing time.

Larry don't develop young players?

Its not Isiah Vs Brown! And it ain't even Isiah, its what I said two years ago and continues:

Systematic unscaleable organizational failure.

And of course "Starphucking".

We as NYers love to starphuch a coach. How many talked of Riley coming back as savior?

ANd we did the impossible, we starphuched ourselves into a GM! And fans mostly fell for it hook line and sinker. If not, you was a hater!

And live longer enough that Elgin Baylor is kicking ass as GM!
Pharzeone
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5/11/2006  8:00 PM
Posted by Nalod:

HollBury,

BUtler, Reezy, Nate, Barnes, Qdog, Frye, Nate, and DLee.

8 young players all got lots of playing time.

Larry don't develop young players?

Its not Isiah Vs Brown! And it ain't even Isiah, its what I said two years ago and continues:

Systematic unscaleable organizational failure.

And of course "Starphucking".

We as NYers love to starphuch a coach. How many talked of Riley coming back as savior?

ANd we did the impossible, we starphuched ourselves into a GM! And fans mostly fell for it hook line and sinker. If not, you was a hater!

And live longer enough that Elgin Baylor is kicking ass as GM!

Because NYers are a bunch of phuckers?
Layden made unusual moves, Knick fans response, stop going to Knick games.
Thomas acquires Marbury, Knick fans response, start buying season tickets.
As Riley said you can't satisfy Knick fans.

Oh on a sidenote, DJ please stop saying that Ewing and Riley were professional because there are several people within that organization, former players and people in the NBA executive committees that would beg to differ.
I know at least the Dolans, Marv Albert and Checketts would beg to differ. I am a big fan of both men but I am not going to sugarcoat their reps to make any point.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
djsunyc
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5/11/2006  8:10 PM
riles demanded the best from his players. ewing played his ass off every single night. broken wrist. torn achilles.

those guys are on another level.
newyorknewyork
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5/11/2006  8:53 PM
Damn man.....even with High School, College, or summer leagues for that matter.....any facet of coaching you have to use what you got. Recruit or make trades or signings at the right times to improve or get back to the syle you like.

If your point guard is a scorer you gotta let him do his thing and let everyone else fall into place.....period. Yeah you have your own way of seeing the game and the way it should be played but you have to deal with what you have

If your center is not good at passing out of the post....why are you trying to force him to do it when the games count? That's what practice is for. Curry should be doing what Nazr did when he was in NY. Sliding inside and getting chippy baskets and posting up every once in a while to build his confidence while in practice you groom him for a more advanced game.


I agree in principal with this.

IF Brown tanked the season to make a culture change. Then I don't agree. Then he did it the wrong way. He should have adapted, squeezed every win he could have, used every players strength to the fullest so it overshodows there weaknesses even if he wasn't doing it his way. We would want people to believe we are better than we are. So that there values are up and we could make moves for players we really want. As long as the Coach & Gm new what the deal was. Who Brown truley needed to win a championship with. Followed through making the changes with players value higher than it is now after such a horrible season. You don't tank a season and put the Knicks fans especially the paying Knicks fans through that. As well as knowing that the Bulls have our first rd draft pick so don't give your confrence rival a top 3 draft pick. Now its harder to make those changes, because we sucked so bad.

Detroit is a sick team because they have some of the best 2 way players in the NBA with Billups, Rip, Prince & Sheed who also happen to be very athletic. While Ben Wallace absolutly controls the paint. We need to go after players like that. Of course we won't get guys on that level but we could build a team for the future that way. It may take a while but at least it would be a plan. We don't need guys who are top 5 offensivley or top 5 defensivley but play tough on both sides of the ball. Use the draft, free agents, and trades with that in mind.
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
rojasmas
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5/11/2006  9:56 PM
So Chaney and Lenny Wilkins don't get the benefit of the doubt but LB does. Even when he had a worse season than they ever had? I know, HOF, won 1 championship in the NBA, and one in college (whatever the hell that has to do with the NBA, remember Jerry Tarkanian?). LB should be shown the door after next year if they don't make the playoffs. But of course, if the Knicks suck next year it will be all the players fault again and LB will resign and move on to somewhere else of his own accord anyhow.
We could be the Dallas Mavs of the East.
Pharzeone
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5/11/2006  10:58 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

riles demanded the best from his players. ewing played his ass off every single night. broken wrist. torn achilles.

those guys are on another level.

You use the term professial and those two gentleman have been accused of not being so at times in their careers. If need me I could go into detail about them to contradict your statements.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Killa4luv
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5/12/2006  1:43 AM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Damn man.....even with High School, College, or summer leagues for that matter.....any facet of coaching you have to use what you got. Recruit or make trades or signings at the right times to improve or get back to the syle you like.

If your point guard is a scorer you gotta let him do his thing and let everyone else fall into place.....period. Yeah you have your own way of seeing the game and the way it should be played but you have to deal with what you have

If your center is not good at passing out of the post....why are you trying to force him to do it when the games count? That's what practice is for. Curry should be doing what Nazr did when he was in NY. Sliding inside and getting chippy baskets and posting up every once in a while to build his confidence while in practice you groom him for a more advanced game.


I agree in principal with this.

IF Brown tanked the season to make a culture change. Then I don't agree. Then he did it the wrong way. He should have adapted, squeezed every win he could have, used every players strength to the fullest so it overshodows there weaknesses even if he wasn't doing it his way. We would want people to believe we are better than we are. So that there values are up and we could make moves for players we really want. As long as the Coach & Gm new what the deal was. Who Brown truley needed to win a championship with. Followed through making the changes with players value higher than it is now after such a horrible season. You don't tank a season and put the Knicks fans especially the paying Knicks fans through that. As well as knowing that the Bulls have our first rd draft pick so don't give your confrence rival a top 3 draft pick. Now its harder to make those changes, because we sucked so bad.
About 1200 of my posts have been made to make this exact point. Any way you slice it, this was piss poor coaching. There is no way around it. What happened this season was the worst possible scenario, YES, even worse than wwinning 38 games, this was the WORST!!! Our players value is low, we gave Chicago maybe the #1 overall (which adds pressure to Curry, btw) and we are officially the laughing stock of sports. It did not have to be this way.
BlueSeats
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5/12/2006  3:16 AM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Damn man.....even with High School, College, or summer leagues for that matter.....any facet of coaching you have to use what you got. Recruit or make trades or signings at the right times to improve or get back to the syle you like.

If your point guard is a scorer you gotta let him do his thing and let everyone else fall into place.....period. Yeah you have your own way of seeing the game and the way it should be played but you have to deal with what you have

If your center is not good at passing out of the post....why are you trying to force him to do it when the games count? That's what practice is for. Curry should be doing what Nazr did when he was in NY. Sliding inside and getting chippy baskets and posting up every once in a while to build his confidence while in practice you groom him for a more advanced game.


I agree in principal with this.

IF Brown tanked the season to make a culture change. Then I don't agree. Then he did it the wrong way. He should have adapted, squeezed every win he could have, used every players strength to the fullest so it overshodows there weaknesses even if he wasn't doing it his way. We would want people to believe we are better than we are. So that there values are up and we could make moves for players we really want. As long as the Coach & Gm new what the deal was. Who Brown truley needed to win a championship with. Followed through making the changes with players value higher than it is now after such a horrible season. You don't tank a season and put the Knicks fans especially the paying Knicks fans through that. As well as knowing that the Bulls have our first rd draft pick so don't give your confrence rival a top 3 draft pick. Now its harder to make those changes, because we sucked so bad.

Detroit is a sick team because they have some of the best 2 way players in the NBA with Billups, Rip, Prince & Sheed who also happen to be very athletic. While Ben Wallace absolutly controls the paint. We need to go after players like that. Of course we won't get guys on that level but we could build a team for the future that way. It may take a while but at least it would be a plan. We don't need guys who are top 5 offensivley or top 5 defensivley but play tough on both sides of the ball. Use the draft, free agents, and trades with that in mind.


My problem with this is it sells the players short by catering to their weaknesses and underestimating their capacity to evolve. Every coach Ewing ever had tried to get him to pass better out of the post, till his last days in the league. But less should be asked of Eddy Curry? Every other coach before brown also asked Billips to check his shot selection, as did Larry, but less should be asked of Steph?

Brown's "system" is simple and fundamental. He doesn't have a playbook like a telephone book, he's not tricky with the defense, he just wants guys to move the ball for high percentage possessions and to play passionate defense. That's it. Fundamental basketball.

If our guys had done that with a sustained effort we'd have gotten those 33+ wins that "any other" coach could have gotten us too, but they did not.

It's amazing, really, that Brown came here with a reputation as a guy who wins EVERYWHERE, even in the low days of the Clippers and NJ, but now he's talked about as a guy who's so bad he'll never win anywhere. Not necessarily by you, newyorknewyork, but by some here.

Now if some people want to argue that our players were justified in quitting on him that's a separate argument, but to suggest his "playing the right way" can't work here, in spite of success at every other stop over 30 years, only proves how fundamentally flawed this team is. Throwing away the playbook and letting Steph have at it with "no set plays", and letting Eddy offensive-foul-out with reckless abandon really wasn't going to mask all of that.
oohah
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5/12/2006  4:10 AM
My problem with this is it sells the players short by catering to their weaknesses and underestimating their capacity to evolve. Every coach Ewing ever had tried to get him to pass better out of the post, till his last days in the league. But less should be asked of Eddy Curry? Every other coach before brown also asked Billips to check his shot selection, as did Larry, but less should be asked of Steph?

Come on now. Catering to their weaknesses? You simply do not emphasize weaknesses as a coach, rule number 1. You maximize strengths.

We should not ask the same from Curry as from Ewing. Just more than he has given thus far. To ask for the same is absurd. We should ask for less until he is in the arena where we can ask for more. And while they did try to make Ewing pass out of the post, no one ever asked him to stop doing what he did best...shoot..even though everyone wished he played around the basket more.

Brown's "system" is simple and fundamental. He doesn't have a playbook like a telephone book, he's not tricky with the defense, he just wants guys to move the ball for high percentage possessions and to play passionate defense. That's it. Fundamental basketball.

There was a system this year? I certainly did not see one. And seriously, where do you get your information about Brown's playbook? All the rest of what you described is what every coach asks for.

It's amazing, really, that Brown came here with a reputation as a guy who wins EVERYWHERE, even in the low days of the Clippers and NJ, but now he's talked about as a guy who's so bad he'll never win anywhere. Not necessarily by you, newyorknewyork, but by some here.

Not the point. The point is he has done terribly thus far, things look bad for the future, and right now he should have been the solution, but he is definitely a big, new part of the problem.

And things change. Great coaches get old too. Even great coaches have spectacular failures. LB's past success is no guarantee of anything, and it certainly does not negate observances of LB's ineptitude this year.

Now if some people want to argue that our players were justified in quitting on him that's a separate argument, but to suggest his "playing the right way" can't work here, in spite of success at every other stop over 30 years, only proves how fundamentally flawed this team is. Throwing away the playbook and letting Steph have at it with "no set plays", and letting Eddy offensive-foul-out with reckless abandon really wasn't going to mask all of that.

It's as if only LB's system whatever it is, is the "right way". The right way is different for each team. Maybe LB needs to learn that.

Your observance of LB"s record ignores his curve where his teams peak then eventually turn on him and have increasingly worse performances. Everywhere he's been that has happened, except Kansas, and that is because he got out of Dodge.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 05-12-2006 04:11 AM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
OldFan
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5/12/2006  6:10 AM

The premise that this team is talented and could have won this year is unproven and I think wrong. If you want to argue the team could have won 33 games fine. But no coach was gonna take this team to the second round. Even if Larry sticks to a lineup that never changes - you have an entirely new starting front court, 3 rookies who are talented but not ready for prime time, an eratic two guard, and out of shape center and the most over-rated player in the league (according to his peers). Not a consistent shooter on the team and no defenders.



djsunyc
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5/12/2006  7:14 AM
Posted by OldFan:


The premise that this team is talented and could have won this year is unproven and I think wrong. If you want to argue the team could have won 33 games fine. But no coach was gonna take this team to the second round. Even if Larry sticks to a lineup that never changes - you have an entirely new starting front court, 3 rookies who are talented but not ready for prime time, an eratic two guard, and out of shape center and the most over-rated player in the league (according to his peers). Not a consistent shooter on the team and no defenders.

it's simple oldfan. some people believe in the roster and will not let go of the fact that some old white guy as a coach held these guys back. and not seeing why this team needed to be exposed is quite shortsighted. they wanted to be able to cheer this team all the way to 35 wins so they can be "proud" of it. all they talk about is this year, this year, this year. that's the problem. they want immediate gratification yet still say it's a rebuilding process. and they keep going back to rotations rotations rotations. but like blue seats says many times, 4 starting spots were given out already barring injury...steph, quentin, AD, curry. none of that changed unless one of them was hurt or was traded. the 40+ lineups is the only thing for these guys to cling to. and it's b/c of those lineups that it's ok for the players to quit on the coach. which is absolutely ludicrous. the professionalism of our players is pathetic...but they don't want to hear it. brown is public enemny #1 and alot of it has to do with the fact that their golden boy had problems with him.

forget that all the players that listened became better individual players. oh, that doesn't matter b/c of the 40+ lineups. forget that they're saying they should listen to coach. oh, that doesn't matter b/c of the 40+ lineups. forget that next year this team will be better. oh, that doesn't matter b/c that old bastard is purposely playing it out like this.

and these people would be patient for a rebuild? please.

next season, the team will be better. and they'll come here saying, you see, lb changed and adapted. yeah, a 65 year old guy that they accuse of not changing and adapting all of the sudden will next season.

the solution is simple: knicks - the cancers + lb = better team.

but until then...all we're going to hear about is the rotations and lineups.

the great lb has lost it. he's senile. he's awful. no...the players never HAD it. that's why they're here. that's why isiah was able to get them for those "untradeable" scrubs layden left behind.

set lineup of 9 players would've shown us how poorly constructed those 9 were instead of 15 like we saw this year.
newyorknewyork
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5/12/2006  8:21 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Damn man.....even with High School, College, or summer leagues for that matter.....any facet of coaching you have to use what you got. Recruit or make trades or signings at the right times to improve or get back to the syle you like.

If your point guard is a scorer you gotta let him do his thing and let everyone else fall into place.....period. Yeah you have your own way of seeing the game and the way it should be played but you have to deal with what you have

If your center is not good at passing out of the post....why are you trying to force him to do it when the games count? That's what practice is for. Curry should be doing what Nazr did when he was in NY. Sliding inside and getting chippy baskets and posting up every once in a while to build his confidence while in practice you groom him for a more advanced game.


I agree in principal with this.

IF Brown tanked the season to make a culture change. Then I don't agree. Then he did it the wrong way. He should have adapted, squeezed every win he could have, used every players strength to the fullest so it overshodows there weaknesses even if he wasn't doing it his way. We would want people to believe we are better than we are. So that there values are up and we could make moves for players we really want. As long as the Coach & Gm new what the deal was. Who Brown truley needed to win a championship with. Followed through making the changes with players value higher than it is now after such a horrible season. You don't tank a season and put the Knicks fans especially the paying Knicks fans through that. As well as knowing that the Bulls have our first rd draft pick so don't give your confrence rival a top 3 draft pick. Now its harder to make those changes, because we sucked so bad.

Detroit is a sick team because they have some of the best 2 way players in the NBA with Billups, Rip, Prince & Sheed who also happen to be very athletic. While Ben Wallace absolutly controls the paint. We need to go after players like that. Of course we won't get guys on that level but we could build a team for the future that way. It may take a while but at least it would be a plan. We don't need guys who are top 5 offensivley or top 5 defensivley but play tough on both sides of the ball. Use the draft, free agents, and trades with that in mind.


My problem with this is it sells the players short by catering to their weaknesses and underestimating their capacity to evolve. Every coach Ewing ever had tried to get him to pass better out of the post, till his last days in the league. But less should be asked of Eddy Curry? Every other coach before brown also asked Billips to check his shot selection, as did Larry, but less should be asked of Steph?

Brown's "system" is simple and fundamental. He doesn't have a playbook like a telephone book, he's not tricky with the defense, he just wants guys to move the ball for high percentage possessions and to play passionate defense. That's it. Fundamental basketball.

If our guys had done that with a sustained effort we'd have gotten those 33+ wins that "any other" coach could have gotten us too, but they did not.

It's amazing, really, that Brown came here with a reputation as a guy who wins EVERYWHERE, even in the low days of the Clippers and NJ, but now he's talked about as a guy who's so bad he'll never win anywhere. Not necessarily by you, newyorknewyork, but by some here.

Now if some people want to argue that our players were justified in quitting on him that's a separate argument, but to suggest his "playing the right way" can't work here, in spite of success at every other stop over 30 years, only proves how fundamentally flawed this team is. Throwing away the playbook and letting Steph have at it with "no set plays", and letting Eddy offensive-foul-out with reckless abandon really wasn't going to mask all of that.

Blue you a very good poster. I can't wait until we find a topic that we agree 100% on HAHA. Whats your favorite football team??

Back to the topic. Brown wanted to move the ball and take high % shots, and play with full effort on defense. Thats cool and I have no problem with him preaching that. But in order to move the ball and get high % shots the defense must somehow become off balance. By either posting up a drawing a double, kick it out swing the ball to the open man. Or we penitrate draw doubles kick it out swing the ball to the open man.

Eddie Curry doesn't have any go to post up moves that are money. He probably turned the ball over more than he scored on a post up attempt. He doesn't pass out of the post & isn't a good passer out of the post. Brown was forcing Curry to be a go to guy and run the offense through him though he wasn't close to being at that level yet. I don't get that. If you wanna say he was trying to develop Curry's game then you might as well call last season a rebuilding yr. Marbury is cappable of beating any player in the NBA off of the dribble. Why didn't Brown just force Marbury to penitrate and dish, penitrate and dish, pentirate & dish some more. He would be utilizing Marbury's best ability as well as getting Marbury to get his teammates more envovled and creating that offensive flow. Isn't penitration & dishing championship calibre offensive basketball. Let Curry get the tip ins, put backs, alley oops which he does best until he develops his post game where we could run it through him. He would stay in the game longer and a more effective player. HIgh % shots cuts down TOS and allows us to get back and set on defense.

Its going to be hard for any team to play good defense consistantly when you give your opponents all those extra attempts from turnovers. As well as not having one quality shotblocker or defensive rebounder in the frontcourt. With the rule changes with the touch fouls made to open up the offense in the NBA. Perimeter defense is very hard (especially if defense isn't your best asset) unless you have bigs that clog up the lane and force guards to stay outside.
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
Nalod
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5/12/2006  10:09 AM
We became the septic take of undesirable names.

Isiah is like some chick who keeps going after good looking gay men and think she can convert them cuz she's hot.

Isiah might have been a great player and has a good old school attitude towards respecting the coach but he bought in the most overpaid sweathogs to get the job done.

Getting Larry to coach this stew of discountent was naieve of Isiah to think that Marbury would get it. Isiah just does not understand this breed of egocentric player. If anyone is out of touch, it might be Isiah.

Solution. Move Mo Taylor, Marbury, and Jailen.

I'd give Francis a chance. But I suspect he is trade fodder.

I'd get a few Shane Battier's to bring this teams IQ up a bit and provide leadership.

No way we should trade DLee or Frye. I Like nate, but he might be good trade player also.
Killa4luv
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5/12/2006  10:29 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

forget that all the players that listened became better individual players.
LOL!!! And who exactly were these players again? We're talking about the knicks right? ROFL!!!
All of them huh? LOL!!
McK1
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5/12/2006  10:50 AM
I hated some of Nate's antics but he is a gamebreaker.

deadly combo of speed strength and skill.

Butler may be the best trade bait (S&T). With Frye Curry Lee Taylor Malik and Jerome on the roster, what is the likelihood he re-signs here?
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
This is very obvious to even the blind on this forum !!!!!

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