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Not 1 player has flourished under LB, Not 1!!!
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McK1
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4/19/2006  9:08 AM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by eViL:
Posted by holfresh:


yeah...remove Marbs and all things stay the same we win 20-25 gmes next year with Brown...

Similar to the way Orlando fell apart when they traded Steve Francis.



There is no Dwight Howard on this roster....


there is no Ed "every 15-20 years" Curry on their roster
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
AUTOADVERT
Killa4luv
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4/19/2006  10:31 AM
Posted by fishmike:

Larry Brown is not perfect, but he's a good coach and he has adapted his team's style to fit personel

Your are completely insane and I am calling Marv to come help you if you think this statement makes any sense at all.
Killa4luv
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4/19/2006  10:34 AM
Posted by nixluva:

I believe that the Larry Brown ass kissers haven't looked hard enough at his career. This guy wouldn't even be here if he was all that he was supposed to be. Why isn't he still coaching a title contending team? What coach gets chased out of town from a title contender unless there's some real issues with him? LB got too much credit for Detroit and not enough blame for the Knicks. This guy was HORRIBLE!!!! I don't care who we had on this team. It wasn't a worse team than Chaney, Wilkins or Herb had, so what's LB's excuse for such a horible job. He was looking to pass on blame to Isaiah before the season even started. Instead of speaking on the positives of what he had, LB focsed on the negative from the get go and he destroyed the confidence of players like Jamal. It took him all season to get his head back on straight. Was that really necessary?

What about LB's constant flip flops on setting the rotation and then his many calls to start playing the young guys and then not doing it. In all my years i've NEVER seen a worse job of running a team. He alienated most of his players. Even his pet players like AD turned on him. WHY? Cuz he's a phoney. He's been exposed now since the olympics and last years Pistons dropping him like a bad habit. Then he comes here and makes all these claims that he's going to maximize players strengths and minimize their weaknesses, but he does the complete opposite. He further exposes this teams weaknesses and amplifies them. last year this team avg'd only 14 turnovers a game and basically we had a fairly decent offense for a losing team. Itt wasn't that we couldn't score, but that we couldn't defend and we had no size. So it wasn't necessary for LB to change EVERYTHING about the way the team played on offense. His offense stinks and always has. What covers it up is that his teams defend. But you have to have the right players for that and clearly we're not built that way. So why didn't LB adjust so as to help this team win games. Why no zones at least in stretches so that we might slow teams down. As just a change of pace once in a while. LB did NOTHING to help this team to succeed. I'd like someone to explain to me what he did as a coach to help this team win games? I didn't see anything.

No one has responded to this, because its all true.
islesfan
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4/19/2006  10:38 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by nixluva:

I believe that the Larry Brown ass kissers haven't looked hard enough at his career. This guy wouldn't even be here if he was all that he was supposed to be. Why isn't he still coaching a title contending team? What coach gets chased out of town from a title contender unless there's some real issues with him? LB got too much credit for Detroit and not enough blame for the Knicks. This guy was HORRIBLE!!!! I don't care who we had on this team. It wasn't a worse team than Chaney, Wilkins or Herb had, so what's LB's excuse for such a horible job. He was looking to pass on blame to Isaiah before the season even started. Instead of speaking on the positives of what he had, LB focsed on the negative from the get go and he destroyed the confidence of players like Jamal. It took him all season to get his head back on straight. Was that really necessary?

What about LB's constant flip flops on setting the rotation and then his many calls to start playing the young guys and then not doing it. In all my years i've NEVER seen a worse job of running a team. He alienated most of his players. Even his pet players like AD turned on him. WHY? Cuz he's a phoney. He's been exposed now since the olympics and last years Pistons dropping him like a bad habit. Then he comes here and makes all these claims that he's going to maximize players strengths and minimize their weaknesses, but he does the complete opposite. He further exposes this teams weaknesses and amplifies them. last year this team avg'd only 14 turnovers a game and basically we had a fairly decent offense for a losing team. Itt wasn't that we couldn't score, but that we couldn't defend and we had no size. So it wasn't necessary for LB to change EVERYTHING about the way the team played on offense. His offense stinks and always has. What covers it up is that his teams defend. But you have to have the right players for that and clearly we're not built that way. So why didn't LB adjust so as to help this team win games. Why no zones at least in stretches so that we might slow teams down. As just a change of pace once in a while. LB did NOTHING to help this team to succeed. I'd like someone to explain to me what he did as a coach to help this team win games? I didn't see anything.

No one has responded to this, because its all true.

I didn't respond because it was too long to read.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
djsunyc
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4/19/2006  10:42 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by nixluva:

I believe that the Larry Brown ass kissers haven't looked hard enough at his career. This guy wouldn't even be here if he was all that he was supposed to be. Why isn't he still coaching a title contending team? What coach gets chased out of town from a title contender unless there's some real issues with him? LB got too much credit for Detroit and not enough blame for the Knicks. This guy was HORRIBLE!!!! I don't care who we had on this team. It wasn't a worse team than Chaney, Wilkins or Herb had, so what's LB's excuse for such a horible job. He was looking to pass on blame to Isaiah before the season even started. Instead of speaking on the positives of what he had, LB focsed on the negative from the get go and he destroyed the confidence of players like Jamal. It took him all season to get his head back on straight. Was that really necessary?

What about LB's constant flip flops on setting the rotation and then his many calls to start playing the young guys and then not doing it. In all my years i've NEVER seen a worse job of running a team. He alienated most of his players. Even his pet players like AD turned on him. WHY? Cuz he's a phoney. He's been exposed now since the olympics and last years Pistons dropping him like a bad habit. Then he comes here and makes all these claims that he's going to maximize players strengths and minimize their weaknesses, but he does the complete opposite. He further exposes this teams weaknesses and amplifies them. last year this team avg'd only 14 turnovers a game and basically we had a fairly decent offense for a losing team. Itt wasn't that we couldn't score, but that we couldn't defend and we had no size. So it wasn't necessary for LB to change EVERYTHING about the way the team played on offense. His offense stinks and always has. What covers it up is that his teams defend. But you have to have the right players for that and clearly we're not built that way. So why didn't LB adjust so as to help this team win games. Why no zones at least in stretches so that we might slow teams down. As just a change of pace once in a while. LB did NOTHING to help this team to succeed. I'd like someone to explain to me what he did as a coach to help this team win games? I didn't see anything.

No one has responded to this, because its all true.

please explain to me why we see clear growth in 1/2 of the roster...mostly our younger players?

lb has a SHELF life b/c of his grating attitude. his players can only take him for 3-4 years tops. and detroit was already built to win, so it's like they were already in year 2/3 of a typical lb team.

exposing their weaknesses is a good thing. i guess it just depends on how you look at it. frye is a sweet jumpshooter. but defenses adjusted and that shot was tougher to get off. lb wants him to become a post up player and put the ball on the floor more to make frye a better player. he was exposed b/c he's not as polished in that aspect than in jumpshooting. but is that a bad thing?

nate robinson is playing WAY more under control now. was the time spent on inactive sobering for him? or when lb called him out for showboating? it looks like that worked.

it really comes down to expectations. you expected more from this team and are disappointed it didn't happen. and you feel brown is the reason it didn't happen.

i wanted a rebuild. and we're getting it.

those that don't like lb always say it's the players that win games. it's a players league. then why the f ck did we fire lenny last year? no crazy rotations. team was allowed to run pick and roll till they dropped dead. steph had his best statistical season...yet the team went 2-13 in january and he was fired. jamal stubbed a toe and h20 was finished. so injuries effected that team as well but lenny was fired. why?

tim + kurt + nazr IS A BETTER FRONTLINE than SF + ad/frye + curry THIS YEAR. tim was better than any sf we have. kurt was better than AD and frye. and nazr and curry were similar...but nazr is a better defender.

he's a phoney. he's overrated. he got lucky with detroit. listen to you man. i don't agree with him airing all the BS out but where the F CK is isiah telling him to shut up? maybe...just maybe...you think isiah AGREES with lb?!?!?!?
joec32033
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4/19/2006  10:49 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by nixluva:

I believe that the Larry Brown ass kissers haven't looked hard enough at his career. This guy wouldn't even be here if he was all that he was supposed to be. Why isn't he still coaching a title contending team? What coach gets chased out of town from a title contender unless there's some real issues with him? LB got too much credit for Detroit and not enough blame for the Knicks. This guy was HORRIBLE!!!! I don't care who we had on this team. It wasn't a worse team than Chaney, Wilkins or Herb had, so what's LB's excuse for such a horible job. He was looking to pass on blame to Isaiah before the season even started. Instead of speaking on the positives of what he had, LB focsed on the negative from the get go and he destroyed the confidence of players like Jamal. It took him all season to get his head back on straight. Was that really necessary?

What about LB's constant flip flops on setting the rotation and then his many calls to start playing the young guys and then not doing it. In all my years i've NEVER seen a worse job of running a team. He alienated most of his players. Even his pet players like AD turned on him. WHY? Cuz he's a phoney. He's been exposed now since the olympics and last years Pistons dropping him like a bad habit. Then he comes here and makes all these claims that he's going to maximize players strengths and minimize their weaknesses, but he does the complete opposite. He further exposes this teams weaknesses and amplifies them. last year this team avg'd only 14 turnovers a game and basically we had a fairly decent offense for a losing team. Itt wasn't that we couldn't score, but that we couldn't defend and we had no size. So it wasn't necessary for LB to change EVERYTHING about the way the team played on offense. His offense stinks and always has. What covers it up is that his teams defend. But you have to have the right players for that and clearly we're not built that way. So why didn't LB adjust so as to help this team win games. Why no zones at least in stretches so that we might slow teams down. As just a change of pace once in a while. LB did NOTHING to help this team to succeed. I'd like someone to explain to me what he did as a coach to help this team win games? I didn't see anything.

No one has responded to this, because its all true.

No, noone respnded to this because the facts have been molded to the opinion of the poster instead of the facts telling their own story.

In leyman's terms, basically it says LB fooled every single person in the NBA for 20 years, and now with the flawed roster we have of young players who have never won and guys that are primadonnas he is all of a sudden exposed. Sure, that makes sense. I mean it's easy to fool so many people for 20 freakin' years.

I remember as far back as Indy and all his teasm since have had a common thread and a common style...the Davis boys in Indy, Ratliff, Hill, Mutumbo in Philly, The Wallaces in Detroit....Reggie Miller in Indy, Iverson in Philly, Chauncy and Rip in Detroit. All played a team game~the exception in Philly was that there wasno compliment to Iverson....Miller had Smits and Schrempf, Obviously Chauncy and Rip compliment each other~. Brown basically itemizes his teams-Rebounding from the forwards, scoring from the guards, defense form everyone. More importantly, each and every team won. Except this one. This team with 2 players that have won (Malik and Q for one season on PHX)....

The Olympics is a totally different game than the NBA game. In the Olympics he best player by far was Iverson, no other player tried to play the way Brown coaches. The Europeans play the game that LB coaches, American players don't.
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Bippity10
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4/19/2006  12:06 PM
I read your last paragraph and realized that's why the European teams beat us.
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Bippity10
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4/19/2006  12:08 PM
Another funny thing about Marbs: If he had just said that he didn't want his coach airing out his gripes in the press. If he had just said I won't comment on it and that it upsets me that my coach is saying these things publically. And if he had just gone out like a team player, despite the numbers, played his arse off he would have had the support of everyone on this board even if he averaged Charlie Ward like numbers.

He chose none of the above.
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DarkKnicks
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4/19/2006  12:10 PM
Posted by joec32033:

The Olympics is a totally different game than the NBA game. In the Olympics he best player by far was Iverson, no other player tried to play the way Brown coaches. The Europeans play the game that LB coaches, American players don't.
Well, to some degree, in my opinion you are right. But you don't have to play "the Larry Brown way" to win, every team must play a certain way depending on the players they have.
joec32033
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4/19/2006  12:38 PM
Posted by DarkKnicks:
Posted by joec32033:

The Olympics is a totally different game than the NBA game. In the Olympics he best player by far was Iverson, no other player tried to play the way Brown coaches. The Europeans play the game that LB coaches, American players don't.
Well, to some degree, in my opinion you are right. But you don't have to play "the Larry Brown way" to win, every team must play a certain way depending on the players they have.

No you don't have to play the Larry Brown way to win at all. But it helps.....every one of the champions since after the Rockets won (Chicago 3 times, SA, LA 3 times, SA, Detroit) has played a brand of team ball the is very simliar to what Larry coaches. SA (Pop is a Brown disciple), LA (the triangle is basically an offensive system with the same principles as Brown teaches), Detroit (obviously coached by Brown)...

Each of these teams had different strengths (LA had a great inside outside combo, not alot of depth, played at least average defense. SA had a dominant post player (or 2) and really developing talent on the wings, Not alot of offensive talent but enough, mostly slow, methodical offense. Chicago had dominant wing players no low post threat at all. Above average defense, everyone was at least a threat to score at any given possession, but not in bunches. Detroit won on defense and an undervalued offense.) and different personel...

[Edited by - joec32033 on 04-19-2006 12:43 PM]
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holfresh
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4/19/2006  1:03 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Another funny thing about Marbs: If he had just said that he didn't want his coach airing out his gripes in the press. If he had just said I won't comment on it and that it upsets me that my coach is saying these things publically. And if he had just gone out like a team player, despite the numbers, played his arse off he would have had the support of everyone on this board even if he averaged Charlie Ward like numbers.

He chose none of the above.



Bip you keep bringing the same point up and I keep telling you that Steph did say in the beginning that he didn't like the fact that Larry Brown went to the press and he wished he would keep it in house....It wasn't until much later that he responded to Brown's comments...Lets face it Bip, you guys don't give a damn what Steph said when...You guys are just looking for a scapegoat and he is the easiest candidate...He has been a scapegoat all his career and now that your boy LB fall flat on his face, it must be Marbury's comments in the press that has the Knicks winning only 22 games..Or a his lack of perimeter defense that has caused them to lose thse many games....How could it ever be the great larry Bown...
holfresh
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4/19/2006  1:16 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by DarkKnicks:
Posted by joec32033:

The Olympics is a totally different game than the NBA game. In the Olympics he best player by far was Iverson, no other player tried to play the way Brown coaches. The Europeans play the game that LB coaches, American players don't.
Well, to some degree, in my opinion you are right. But you don't have to play "the Larry Brown way" to win, every team must play a certain way depending on the players they have.

No you don't have to play the Larry Brown way to win at all. But it helps.....every one of the champions since after the Rockets won (Chicago 3 times, SA, LA 3 times, SA, Detroit) has played a brand of team ball the is very simliar to what Larry coaches. SA (Pop is a Brown disciple), LA (the triangle is basically an offensive system with the same principles as Brown teaches), Detroit (obviously coached by Brown)...

Each of these teams had different strengths (LA had a great inside outside combo, not alot of depth, played at least average defense. SA had a dominant post player (or 2) and really developing talent on the wings, Not alot of offensive talent but enough, mostly slow, methodical offense. Chicago had dominant wing players no low post threat at all. Above average defense, everyone was at least a threat to score at any given possession, but not in bunches. Detroit won on defense and an undervalued offense.) and different personel...

[Edited by - joec32033 on 04-19-2006 12:43 PM]




You have no idea what you are talking about...The triangle offense is a scheme that is totally different to what Larry preaches...the triangle has more to do with spacing and reads on the court..players reacting to defensive positioning....In the triangle there is not set play which Larry calls everytime up court....It jsut amazes me the lengths through which you Larry Brown butt thumpers will go to try to give him credit....He stunk this year plain and simple....



[Edited by - holfresh on 04-19-2006 1:17 PM]
Bippity10
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4/19/2006  1:22 PM
Posted by DarkKnicks:
Posted by joec32033:

The Olympics is a totally different game than the NBA game. In the Olympics he best player by far was Iverson, no other player tried to play the way Brown coaches. The Europeans play the game that LB coaches, American players don't.
Well, to some degree, in my opinion you are right. But you don't have to play "the Larry Brown way" to win, every team must play a certain way depending on the players they have.

If he is your coach, yes you do.
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4/19/2006  1:23 PM
I don't care what anyone says, how can you win on a consistant basis without 1 good defensive player on the team? Our entire frontcourt is a joke on the defensive end.
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joec32033
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4/19/2006  1:27 PM
Seriously bro, I am so tired of your, pompous, self rightous bull****. The Triangle is a system that is based on options and passing and motion on offense. That is the exact same ****ing thing LB preaches on offense. Yes spacing is a big part of it. Yeah, reacting to the defense is part of it-that part is called motion on offense- LB preaches the same thing. TEX WINTER (not even Phil) just gave it a name. It is funadmentally the exact same thing. Phil has NEVER been a big defensive guy only to say that his teams have to play some form of defense.

It was reported in the Postor the News that Larry HATES calling plays-someone posted a thread with a bunch of LB/Steph articles...it was in there. He just did it because your "boy" Marbury wasn't doing ****.

http://books.google.com/books?ie=UTF-8&id=5wBDqBHECU8C&dq=phil+jackson+book&psp=wp&pg=PP1&printsec=0&lpg=PP1&sig=oLb4qYJVCgabOsoiOY6i01SWIYc

Read it. I did, it explains alot.

Unfortunately the Marbury Hotdog swallowers seem to follow the same path the "butt thumpers" do.
You have no idea what you are talking about...The triangle offense is a scheme that is totally different to what Larry preaches...the triangle has more to do with spacing and reads on the court..players reacting to defensive positioning....In the triangle there is not set play which Larry calls everytime up court....It jsut amazes me the lengths through which you Larry Brown butt thumpers will go to try to give him credit....He stunk this year plain and simple....


[Edited by - joec32033 on 04-19-2006 1:41 PM]

[Edited by - joec32033 on 04-19-2006 1:52 PM]
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Bippity10
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4/19/2006  1:31 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by Bippity10:

Another funny thing about Marbs: If he had just said that he didn't want his coach airing out his gripes in the press. If he had just said I won't comment on it and that it upsets me that my coach is saying these things publically. And if he had just gone out like a team player, despite the numbers, played his arse off he would have had the support of everyone on this board even if he averaged Charlie Ward like numbers.

He chose none of the above.



Bip you keep bringing the same point up and I keep telling you that Steph did say in the beginning that he didn't like the fact that Larry Brown went to the press and he wished he would keep it in house....It wasn't until much later that he responded to Brown's comments...Lets face it Bip, you guys don't give a damn what Steph said when...You guys are just looking for a scapegoat and he is the easiest candidate...He has been a scapegoat all his career and now that your boy LB fall flat on his face, it must be Marbury's comments in the press that has the Knicks winning only 22 games..Or a his lack of perimeter defense that has caused them to lose thse many games....How could it ever be the great larry Bown...


Holfresh: Ask Blueseats if I have ever defended Marbury. As a matter of fact I am going to say around midseason I defended the guy more than anyone on this site and had people attacking me nonstop. Because on this site you can't like a player/coach for one thing and then hate when they do another thing. Instead you either hate them or you love them. That's how you guys function, it's not how I function.

So when you pull away from your reactionary tendencies and pay attention what I am saying you would understand where I'm coming from. I had no problem when Marbs was upset about LB saying things in the press. Anyone would be. He had every right to respond and I still defend him for that. But he couldn't leave it at that. he instead rebelled. But when he rebelled he didn't just rebel against LB. He rebelled against LB, the fans, his teammates, every Knick player past and present, the banners and most importantly himself. He became selfish in his need to get back at LB. He refused to shoot in games, he broke plays that his coach called, he called himself Starbury and worried about his stats.

You have every right to be angry at your coach. You have every right to hate your coach and your teammates. But as long as you collect that paycheck and play for a TEAM, you act like a professional, listen to the coach whether you agree with him or not and you do whatever it takes to help your teammates even if that means playing a style you aren't comfortable with. When you can do that, then we can design a system that compliments your skills. NOT BEFORE AND DEFINITELY NOT FOR STARBURY.
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4/19/2006  1:35 PM
Holfresh: I am the biggest advocate on this board for saying scapegoating is ridiculous, that it isn't Marb's fault or LB's or Nates or anyone. When you are 22-10000 it is everyone's fault. But just because I point out a flaw doesn't mean I hate them, blame them, want them traded etc. Flaws can be fixed

But if Marb's refuses to change his flaws and insists that he wants to play his way despite what the coach says, I know because I play and coach the game that you can't win that way. And even if you love the guy you have to be able to admit that as well, or else you are in denial or just don't know much about team sports. If that's his approach, he must be sent packing. It's his choice. Not mine and not LB's.
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Bippity10
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4/19/2006  1:38 PM
To summarize our team: When challenged by the coach, instead of responding and proving the "idiot" coach wrong. They instead feel bad about themselves and quit, using the "idiot" coach as their excuse. And that's what you defend. Our standards as an organization is about as low as it gets.
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Bippity10
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4/19/2006  1:55 PM
Put it this way: When you are on the playground playing with your buddies. And one of your boys refuses to play D which is causing you to lose. When you look over at the 10 game wait on the sideline how do you react?

Do you get in your teammates jock and tell him to suck it up and play hard so you don't have to wait to play again. Or do you forgive your teammate and tell him it's okay that he doesn't play hard because you understand that it's difficult to play hard when you don't have the perfect coach designing a system for him and allowing him to by "yourfriendbury".

Personally I play hard everywhere I go and have never needed any motivation from anyone. To this day I don't think I've ever listened to one of those silly halftime motivational speeches. I don't need them. I'm relentless because that's what the game tells me to do. I busted my brother's nose playing ball when he was 9 years old because he was bodying me up. That's all I know, and if I see a teammate not playing hard "because the coach is mean" or "because the system is not allowing him to be scorebury" I'm going to take the ball and bust him in the face with it. You do not need a coach to tell you to play hard, share the ball and play defense. It is a fundamental necessity in order to win basketball games. If you don't want to do them you don't belong out there. If you can't play hard because coach made you sad, then go sit on the sideline with the rest of the 6 year old girls and let the team bring in some men to get the job done. Enough of this nonsense.
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holfresh
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4/19/2006  3:00 PM


Ok Bip, you seem to know the game very well...You have to admit, even if the players didn't take Brown's antics too personally and played their hearts out on a nightly basis, it would have still been difficult to win consistantly given what Brown was doing to his lineups and playing time with different players....Even you have to admit that....Couple that with all the bull that went on in this organization caused this horrible outcome....I jsut get upset when the overall assessment is that it's one guy tha is the problem...I know you have said this, BUT ITS THE ENTIRE TEAM...And in my opinion Marbs was the least of everyone's worry this year...Look at waht he did on the court not in the papers....
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