Posted by Allanfan20:

Hey man, I'll take Telfair.

All those seasons, when we were getting knocked out in the second round by the Bulls, Pacers, Heat (In '97) I got a little bit more angry each time. 2nd round loss means you're not a contender. I personally wont be satisfied until we are serious contenders and win the championship. '99 was as close to it as we could get, and if Ewing was healthy, I betcha we could have beat the Spurs.

me too on Sebastion and a championship. The Spurs series wouldn't have been over in 5, beating them...I dunno.

I don't know guys. LOGICALLY I think people are making good points abot believing in Larry and sticking with him.

INTUITIVELY I just don't think this is a good sitution for him to be effective in.

He was handed a PG who's gifted at getting to the rim, can finish with the best of them, and is a good enough passer to consistently rank with the league leaders. He also was given several young guys 6'10" and taller who are athletic and can score. I gotta believe a better system could have been employed to take advantage of what he went into the season with.

And please, the alterntive to "Larry's way" shouldn't be immediately construed as "letting the inmates run the asylum." It's not one or the other. There would have been systems that could have been put into place to take advantage of this team's strengths without being chaotic.

I don't like the fact that Marbs, Francis and JRose have all had the worst year of their careers playing for LB.

I don't the fact that Curry and QRich took steps backward. And so did Reezy before getting traded.

And our friend Isiah - doesn't know WHAT the hell he's supposed to do now! His recent trades are ATROCIOUS!!

fire Isiah

Posted by Nalod:

Posted by holfresh:

Posted by Marv:

I don't know guys. LOGICALLY I think people are making good points abot believing in Larry and sticking with him.

INTUITIVELY I just don't think this is a good sitution for him to be effective in.

He was handed a PG who's gifted at getting to the rim, can finish with the best of them, and is a good enough passer to consistently rank with the league leaders. He also was given several young guys 6'10" and taller who are athletic and can score. I gotta believe a better system could have been employed to take advantage of what he went into the season with.

And please, the alterntive to "Larry's way" shouldn't be immediately construed as "letting the inmates run the asylum." It's not one or the other. There would have been systems that could have been put into place to take advantage of this team's strengths without being chaotic.

I don't like the fact that Marbs, Francis and JRose have all had the worst year of their careers playing for LB.

I don't the fact that Curry and QRich took steps backward. And so did Reezy before getting traded.

And our friend Isiah - doesn't know WHAT the hell he's supposed to do now! His recent trades are ATROCIOUS!!

Marv, thank you very much...Thats all I'm saying...I have been posting the last 3 months getting into countless battles to get that point across..Yeah, Larry is a great coach no doubt, but not with this group.....

Ok, I can live with that. We can stop here.

U keep acting like we have something personal going...

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Nalod:

Posted by holfresh:

Posted by Marv:

I don't know guys. LOGICALLY I think people are making good points abot believing in Larry and sticking with him.

INTUITIVELY I just don't think this is a good sitution for him to be effective in.

He was handed a PG who's gifted at getting to the rim, can finish with the best of them, and is a good enough passer to consistently rank with the league leaders. He also was given several young guys 6'10" and taller who are athletic and can score. I gotta believe a better system could have been employed to take advantage of what he went into the season with.

And please, the alterntive to "Larry's way" shouldn't be immediately construed as "letting the inmates run the asylum." It's not one or the other. There would have been systems that could have been put into place to take advantage of this team's strengths without being chaotic.

I don't like the fact that Marbs, Francis and JRose have all had the worst year of their careers playing for LB.

I don't the fact that Curry and QRich took steps backward. And so did Reezy before getting traded.

And our friend Isiah - doesn't know WHAT the hell he's supposed to do now! His recent trades are ATROCIOUS!!

Marv, thank you very much...Thats all I'm saying...I have been posting the last 3 months getting into countless battles to get that point across..Yeah, Larry is a great coach no doubt, but not with this group.....

Ok, I can live with that. We can stop here.

I can't.

Saying that LB is a great coach but not with this group suggests that any other coach could have taken this group of career underachievers and done better. Like this was a special team headed places and LB was the one that held them back.

LB is a top coach because he can adapt as he's shown in the past. Perhaps he feels that there's nothing to adapt to here because based on his vast basketball experience it's obvious to him that this roster needs to be blown up. And where does that lead to? The person responsible for putting this team together. Here's a hint, he's also the one that hired the coach.

Where has Larry brown shown that he can adapt?...The Pistons play the style that perfectly suited his style of coaching...Thats why he could resist stabbing Carlisle to get that job...Brown's teams has alway played the same style, slow down offense, defense, ball distribution...Thats cool, it can work for alot of teams but not all...Riles is the perfect example of someone who has adapted and play to the style that best suits the team...From day one, Brown could not resist commenting on a flawed roster...yeah no kidding, the Knicks has not made a serious playoff bid in over 6 years...He knew this before he excepted the job, now it's time to throw others under the bus...Brown is a very good coach but not amoung the alltime greats and he will prove this in the coming year...He cannot adapt...Thats why everyone here is saying he needs Larry type of players...Getting a roster with more talent than the pervious year and and having a worst record only proves he can't adapt...The proof is in the pudding for all to see...You don't hae to take it from me, look at the record...

Yeah, it's everyone fault of your choosing...It could never be Brown...







[Edited by - holfresh on 04-16-2006 03:06 AM]

Posted by islesfan:

I can't.

Saying that LB is a great coach but not with this group suggests that any other coach could have taken this group of career underachievers and done better. Like this was a special team headed places and LB was the one that held them back.

LB is a top coach because he can adapt as he's shown in the past. Perhaps he feels that there's nothing to adapt to here because based on his vast basketball experience it's obvious to him that this roster needs to be blown up. And where does that lead to? The person responsible for putting this team together. Here's a hint, he's also the one that hired the coach.

Oh I'd suggest very strongly that any other coach could have done better than 22 wins with this team. There are 2 possible explanations that I see - either Larry's plan was to break the team down to the nubs to learn to play his way and determine who couldn't and screw the wins this year - or he miscoached the team. You don't have to think this was a special team headed places and that LB was the one that held them back. Virtually no one in basketball - players, GM's, fans - had gone on record in the preseason saying that the Knicks were going to be a 22-win team that was going to need to be broken up, so Larry delivered far below virtually everyone's expectations.

How's this for adapting- you have your top player, guy in his 20's, career 20 and 8 guy, coming off a 22 point 8 assist 46% year. Guy with baggage, guy who's underachieved through his career. But also a guy who was lauded throughout this very board last year as a "warrior." A guy with his faults, a guy who it's been said is not a winner, but a guy who loved nothing more than staying out there for 48 minutes and playing with all his heart in the game. Maybe not enough head, but a lot of heart. And now his coach has "adapated' to coaching him to the point where the media-channeled war between them has totally blown up in everyone's faces. Steph's made some bad moves in this, but he was also badly provoked by a coach who always needs the "adapting" to come from the other direction, not him.

As I recall, Larry publically said he "gave up" on coaching the team 'his way" early in the season when they were playing horribly. When he then changed things around , the team went on a 6-game streak playing very exciting games, Marbury played great ball and Brown praised him as "getting it."

How hard would it have been for a coach who wants to "adapt' to the benefit of the franchise he's coaching to have adapted to the fact that Marbury's injury and AD's loss caused the downfall of the team's play. Instead, he coached them from that point on as if he needed to re-assert more control than ever, go back to "his way" of ball, and slam the players and Marbury continuously.

To me that's not adapting. That's getting more and more rigid and creating more and more heated friction and fraction within the team.

^ Wouldn't just trading him have been a much simpler and less destructive plan?

Posted by McK1:

Posted by Marv:

^ Wouldn't just trading him have been a much simpler and less destructive plan?

Isiah likely went that route first despite his "we don't roll like that rant" and found out:

NO team wants Stephon at that cap and headache cost.

Yeah but not even Isiah could be that dumb. You trade your next 2 #1's and then hire a coach to blow up the season all for the purpose of "undressing" a player you want gone?????

Posted by Marv:

Posted by McK1:

Posted by Marv:

^ Wouldn't just trading him have been a much simpler and less destructive plan?

Isiah likely went that route first despite his "we don't roll like that rant" and found out:

NO team wants Stephon at that cap and headache cost.

Yeah but not even Isiah could be that dumb. You trade your next 2 #1's and then hire a coach to blow up the season all for the purpose of "undressing" a player you want gone?????

Isih likely figured with the addition of Curry, that was enough talent [on paper] to accomplish a dual agenda. loose Steph's grip and make a 6-8 seed. problem is Curry has no game you can build around. he is a patio addition not the house itself. For that matter nor was Frye at this time. Being light-skinned long with a jumpshot doesn't make you Rasheed Wallace. Not saying Frye won't improve but...who exactly did Frye workout against? I don't recall.

[Edited by - McK1 on 04-16-2006 10:27 AM]

Posted by Marv:

Posted by McK1:

Posted by Marv:

Posted by McK1:

Posted by Marv:

^ Wouldn't just trading him have been a much simpler and less destructive plan?

Isiah likely went that route first despite his "we don't roll like that rant" and found out:

NO team wants Stephon at that cap and headache cost.

Yeah but not even Isiah could be that dumb. You trade your next 2 #1's and then hire a coach to blow up the season all for the purpose of "undressing" a player you want gone?????

Isih likely figured with the addition of Curry, that was enough talent [on paper] to accomplish a dual agenda. loose Steph's grip and make a 6-8 seed. problem is Curry has no game you can build around. he is a patio addition not the house itself.

I bet Isiah was absolutely thrilled when it looked like the team was giong to win and his HOF caoch was getting 23 and 9 out of his key acquisition during a 6-game win streak. Isiah's face was all over the runway and crowd at that point. I don't think that was a man coming into the season with any such dual agenda.

absolutely thrilled that the win total was up to 14 in mid January. you sure? he was more visible but thrilled about 14 wins in January, what kind of standard is that?

Posted by holfresh:

Posted by Nalod:

Posted by holfresh:

Posted by Marv:

I don't know guys. LOGICALLY I think people are making good points abot believing in Larry and sticking with him.

INTUITIVELY I just don't think this is a good sitution for him to be effective in.

He was handed a PG who's gifted at getting to the rim, can finish with the best of them, and is a good enough passer to consistently rank with the league leaders. He also was given several young guys 6'10" and taller who are athletic and can score. I gotta believe a better system could have been employed to take advantage of what he went into the season with.

And please, the alterntive to "Larry's way" shouldn't be immediately construed as "letting the inmates run the asylum." It's not one or the other. There would have been systems that could have been put into place to take advantage of this team's strengths without being chaotic.

I don't like the fact that Marbs, Francis and JRose have all had the worst year of their careers playing for LB.

I don't the fact that Curry and QRich took steps backward. And so did Reezy before getting traded.

And our friend Isiah - doesn't know WHAT the hell he's supposed to do now! His recent trades are ATROCIOUS!!

Marv, thank you very much...Thats all I'm saying...I have been posting the last 3 months getting into countless battles to get that point across..Yeah, Larry is a great coach no doubt, but not with this group.....

Ok, I can live with that. We can stop here.

U keep acting like we have something personal going...

I actually think we agree on more than we disagree. Its not personal, I just thought that was a good place to stop repeating our points. This argument is getting stale.