Posted by McK1:

Posted by Knight:

Posted by McK1:

Posted by Knight:

I would say if you could magically put Frye or Curry on that team after three more years of development the team would be just as good if not better.

Frye/Curry are weak without great guard play

So would the Hawks be worse than 14-32 with the more mature Frye or Curry replacing Harrington?

yes

You can't get much worse and that's my point, if exchanging those players makes a minimal difference then you can't say Harrington is far more of an impact player than Frye or Curry will be. If you were to say that the Hawks would only have won 0-7 games that would be silly.

Posted by Knight:

Posted by McK1:

Posted by Knight:

Posted by McK1:

Posted by Knight:

I would say if you could magically put Frye or Curry on that team after three more years of development the team would be just as good if not better.

Frye/Curry are weak without great guard play

So would the Hawks be worse than 14-32 with the more mature Frye or Curry replacing Harrington?

yes

You can't get much worse and that's my point, if exchanging those players makes a minimal difference then you can't say Harrington is far more of an impact player than Frye or Curry will be. If you were to say that the Hawks would only have won 0-7 games that would be silly.

Yes you can.

The things Harrington can do with and without the ball - which is plenty - determines impact. Outside of catch and shoot, Frye and Curry can do very little.

I think they'll get better at technical things like boxing out or setting a proper screen.

Will they ever wear the playmaker tag? Its hard to acquire and master on the pro-level what a lot of guys have had and been developing since 5.

The thing about trading for Ratliff is that it would be a VERY shortsided, and seemingly desperate move on the Knicks part.

If he's already breaking down at almost 33 years old what is he going to bring us for the next two years of his contract where he makes 11.6 mil making him, ostensibly, stuck with the team until the 2007-08 season?

He may still be a good defender & shot blocker, but his shot blocking has SEVERELY dropped in the past 2 seasons. He went from 4.4 bpg in 03-04 to 2.5 bpg last year and now 1.5 bpg. His minutes have dropped but you don't lose minutes unless someone is playing better than you.

In fairness, there are some Blazer fans I've read on the Real GM forums that like Theo's defense and leadership. After a Knick fan went off on Theo about breaking down a Blazer fan replied:

That is absolute bulls**t if you've seen more than one game. He is the anchor to the Blazers' defense in the post. Without him, the defense is prone to collapse.

Theo can change the game for the Blazers. He's just too valuable to throw away like that.

I'm still quite wary of this deal and don't think the Knicks would put Lee in the deal unless they got something of good value in return.

Posted by McK1:

Posted by Knight:

Posted by McK1:

Posted by Knight:

Posted by McK1:

Posted by Knight:

I would say if you could magically put Frye or Curry on that team after three more years of development the team would be just as good if not better.

Frye/Curry are weak without great guard play

So would the Hawks be worse than 14-32 with the more mature Frye or Curry replacing Harrington?

yes

You can't get much worse and that's my point, if exchanging those players makes a minimal difference then you can't say Harrington is far more of an impact player than Frye or Curry will be. If you were to say that the Hawks would only have won 0-7 games that would be silly.

Yes you can.

The things Harrington can do with and without the ball - which is plenty - determines impact. Outside of catch and shoot, Frye and Curry can do very little.

ah, you continue to minimalize both curryand Frye, but your question can well be put to a player like shaq. so I guess Harrington is more valuable than shaq? Do you watch the Hawks play, I see big all All the time, I will be there at the game tomorrow also watching him play up close, off the ball, tell me, what other things does he do? I watch frye contest and change shots on defense, yea, he commits silly fouls, but who doesn't as a rookie, I see curry drawing double and triple teams all the time, are you telling me that the impact of drawing tripple teams is not huge? Al Harrington is a good scorer and on certain nights a very good rebounder, he is a average passer and defender and often takes a lot of tough shots. Watch his game enough and you will realize the if It gives up a lot to get Al and offer him 10 mil a year,we would be overpaying dearly, and I like harrington a lot...

TKF, I agree with everything you said except for one point. What good is Curry drawing double and triple teams if he can't pass out of them?

Posted by McK1:

Shaq passes well out of double-teams. Shaq defends the paint very well. Shaq blocks shots. Shaq hits the glass. Shaq does the little things that mean so much like look up once he clears a board to se if anyone was able to leak out. Shaq is and has been a play-maker and a showmen, Curry and Frye are not. Maybe they will learn.

As for Al yes I watch him and the Hawks plenty on league pass, usually 7 pm starts.

off the ball: Al knows how to cut, Al knows how to create passing angles, Al can adjust to what the defense is doing and find open spaces to get the ball to name a few.

[Edited by - McK1 on 02-06-2006 2:51 PM]

read my post realhip hop, and as far as Al Harrington creating passing angles and adjusting to defenses is pure bullshyt... Al gets the ball, goes one on one, he is a gifted scorer, often forces shots, teams don't change to guard Harrington, they know exactly what he is going to do, again, overemphasize other guys skills to down knicks players, that seems to be the common thing with some of you guys....

If they trade Lee for anyone but Garnett, I am done.

Posted by tkf:

Posted by McK1:

Shaq passes well out of double-teams. Shaq defends the paint very well. Shaq blocks shots. Shaq hits the glass. Shaq does the little things that mean so much like look up once he clears a board to se if anyone was able to leak out. Shaq is and has been a play-maker and a showmen, Curry and Frye are not. Maybe they will learn.

As for Al yes I watch him and the Hawks plenty on league pass, usually 7 pm starts.

off the ball: Al knows how to cut, Al knows how to create passing angles, Al can adjust to what the defense is doing and find open spaces to get the ball to name a few.

[Edited by - McK1 on 02-06-2006 2:51 PM]

read my post realhip hop, and as far as Al Harrington creating passing angles and adjusting to defenses is pure bullshyt... Al gets the ball, goes one on one, he is a gifted scorer, often forces shots, teams don't change to guard Harrington, they know exactly what he is going to do, again, overemphasize other guys skills to down knicks players, that seems to be the common thing with some of you guys....

which leads me back to my original point; Curry and Frye would have less impact because they have little ability to create their own shot. If the dipsticks in Atlanta had taken Paul, Atlanta would be in NOK's place because they would have a real orchestrator and distributor instead of pseudo ones in Joe and Lue. Matter-of-fact, I watched a Hawks game the other day and they had J-Chill bringing it up. I am a fan of Chill and love his versatility but putting him on the ball...c'mon. The guy is an open space/baseline feeder. I want him going at the rim, not 24 feet out having to play the backline. Thats a sad lot running that team.