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Who can we get to make LArry happy and appease the masses?
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gunsnewing
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12/15/2005  7:38 PM
[/quote]
Last I checked Jeffries is a career 43% shooter, not too bad for a guy that shoots mid-range jumpers, yes he's had some trouble finishing but when you play with a guy like Gilbert Arenas who shoots the ball as much as he does, I would be surprised if I got the ball every now and then too. Lets take a look at Hollingers PER Defensive report on Jeffries
Jeffries discovered a role in his third NBA season, taking over as the Wizards' perimeter defensive stopper. Because he's 6-11 and has decent quickness, Jeffries proved a real headache for high-scoring small forwards. He also was among the Wizards' best help defenders, which is important on a team whose guards gamble so much. Sounds like a good defensive player to me.
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wow that sounds pretty good, great find! According that this guy assessment he would really help us defensively and he doesn't kill your offense the way Ariza does. We'd still need to get a shooter in here. Atkins can be the shooter off the bench. I'm sold on going after those 2 guys!
AUTOADVERT
gunsnewing
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12/15/2005  7:45 PM
Posted by Knight:

Larry wants our guys to pass to the open man, I guess that is confusing to Marbury.


Marbury does pass it to the open man. The problem is none of them can shoot. What Marbury doesn't do that really pisses me off is get the ball inside when Curry has position not when the defender is up on his grill. He needs to see the court better. Get guys the ball at the right time.

Our guards need to come off picks and get wide open shots like I saw Phoenix and Dallas do all game. Enough of this dribble-shot, dribble, drive, dribble dump and clear out one on one offense. It's sicking! Come on Larry!
gunsnewing
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12/15/2005  7:46 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

Guns, its over with. we've moved on.


sorry I'm still catching up reading these posts lol
gunsnewing
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12/15/2005  7:50 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by EnySpree:

I guess Isiah is the one who turns the ball over.

I also wish he would stick with a rotation and play to the teams strengths on offense. Turnovers are happening cuz guys are confused on what Larry wants.

I just think the team is "confused" to what Larry wants becuase they aren't smart basketball players. For all of Marburys great stats year in and year out there haven't been that many times I've seen him make a play and say wow that was a smart basketball play. Thats just my opinion, I don't remember seeing it. Nate/Jamal and their shot selection is also a reason I don't think their smart basketball palyers. Nate should know shot selection know after playing 3 years in college but he doesn't and Crawford should know shot selection after playing in the NBA for 5-6 years. I think the only guy on this team right now that is a "smart" basketball player is Frye aside from Malik (who just flat out sucks.) If Frye sees his shot he takes it, if not he passes it up AND he has had no problem at all picking up the offense. I think Larry lacks smart players which is what his offense is based on. If he doesnt get the players then we'll just have to be patient and wait for these guys to get drilled enough to where they pick it up.

Spree, I know what your saying but I dont think Larry should have to change his ways. Everywhere he's been his offense has worked, and its worked real well. I think the fact that these Knick players can't pick it up is more of a testament to the fact that they aren't very smart basketball players at all.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 12-15-2005 7:22 PM]


well said. It's going to be really hard bringing in smarter players so we might have to put up with the losing and hope that by the end of the year Larry has them playing smarter
gunsnewing
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12/15/2005  7:51 PM
Posted by McK1:

well there was that Lee to Marbury back to Lee play against LA that was great. LB rightfully sang Steph's praise after that game. Unfortunaely in Marbury's eyes that night was the hardest 10 ssists he got in his life...

Curiously its been 11 games and we have not seen an effort like that from him again.


good point. his defense also hasn't been the same since
nixluva
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12/15/2005  7:56 PM
Someone on this forum brought up the coaching job that Riley has done with each of his teams and I think its a perfect example of what LB ISN'T doing with this team. Riley adjusted to the roster of each team he had. He found a style that fit the personel of his squad. LB is so used to just getting his way, like in Philly where he spent years getting rid of players and bringing in guys he liked. That was all fine, but aside from the finals appearance did that really help to build a team for the future that could really contend. NO.

LB should have tried to adjust his personal system to better fit the skills of the players he has. Its not going to be easy to just get rid of some of these guys and bring in ony guys he likes. He's KILLED Steph's game and JC's game.
He's buried Lee and who knows when this kid will be able to get a shot. I'd rather see him get a shot in a loss than AD who is almost out of here anyway.

The thing is there really aren't a lot of players out there just waiting to be traded for who can insure this team will win. I think we should be able to pick up a decent pass 1st PG. Maybe a swingman who's a defensive specialist, tho no one comes to mind right now. Aside from that I think LB better roll up his sleeve's and find a way to get thru to his players. He already wasted a qtr of the season messing around. Now we're starting from scratch with the young guys when they should have gotten more run early to gain experience.

I blame LB, cuz he's the one getting paid to make this whole thing work. So far he's shown me no sense of really knowing his team and what they can and can't do. Or how to get them to play some style that will work.

As far as the guys on the Roster people want to see traded. Steph will be hard to trade. I don't see any real reason to have to. LB should try to use his strengths and meld them with his own style. It doesn't have to be all one way. At the start of the year LB said that his job was to get Steph to buy into the system and yet not kill his offensive opportunities. He still hasn't done a good job of doing that.

Q seems to be playing better, tho he's not a great defender, he does try. I'd still rather he came off the bench. He doesn't need to play big minutes. He's not an explosive scorer like JC. He can score, but he's not JC. When JC gets it going he can be amazing.

JC, LB has totally lost this kid. He's one of the most dynamic scorers on this team, but you have to use him. Having him come off the bench is a dangerous proposition, cuz if he comes in and doesn't get it going right away we end up losing him for the whole game. He's not a high energy instant offense type player. He has to get a feel and get into the flow of the game. Plus you can't be put off by him missing a few shots, cuz he can heat up just as fast.

Its not all LB's fault, but there's no way this team should be even worse than last years team. That has to reflect on the job he's done.

McK1
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12/15/2005  7:57 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Knight:

Larry wants our guys to pass to the open man, I guess that is confusing to Marbury.


Marbury does pass it to the open man. The problem is none of them can shoot. What Marbury doesn't do that really pisses me off is get the ball inside when Curry has position not when the defender is up on his grill. He needs to see the court better. Get guys the ball at the right time.

Our guards need to come off picks and get wide open shots like I saw Phoenix and Dallas do all game. Enough of this dribble-shot, dribble, drive, dribble dump and clear out one on one offense. It's sicking! Come on Larry!


Marbury should go get the ball back when he passes it to Rose or AD instead of standing there and start getting below the foul line for something other than a shot attempt.

If any of you read Black Hawk Down, in it they talked about the philosophy of the SEALs to always keep moving always keep probing for a better vantage point. That is what the NY guards don't do. You watch Nash, you watch AI they are constantly probing. You don't have to dribble from three in. Pass it to Rose or AD at the elbow and then immediately hussle to go get it back. Now you are at the foulline wth your dribble and the defense in scramble mode. IMO these are some of the simple things Larry Brown didn't know he had to coach. Larry said Steph isn't Ivey and its reasons like what I just mentioned as to why. AI knows how to move in the half-court against any defense and thats not something he had to learn on the pro-level. From his freshman yr at G-Town he always found a way to put his team in a great vantage point to attack.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
nixluva
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12/15/2005  8:13 PM
Posted by McK1:

Marbury should go get the ball back when he passes it to Rose or AD instead of standing there and start getting below the foul line for something other than a shot attempt.

If any of you read Black Hawk Down, in it they talked about the philosophy of the SEALs to always keep moving always keep probing for a better vantage point. That is what the NY guards don't do. You watch Nash, you watch AI they are constantly probing. You don't have to dribble from three in. Pass it to Rose or AD at the elbow and then immediately hussle to go get it back. Now you are at the foulline wth your dribble and the defense in scramble mode. IMO these are some of the simple things Larry Brown didn't know he had to coach. Larry said Steph isn't Ivey and its reasons like what I just mentioned as to why. AI knows how to move in the half-court against any defense and thats not something he had to learn on the pro-level. From his freshman yr at G-Town he always found a way to put his team in a great vantage point to attack.

I just don't think your assessment of Steph is accurate in terms to how he's played his whole career. Perhaps right NOW under LB he's not doing these things, but Steph has been near the top in terms of probing the defense his entire career. That's how he got most of his assists. LB doesn't want the ball to move in the way you suggest. That's not how he had Billups play. The difference is that this is NOT the Pistons or AI's Sixers, who I might add didn't really move the ball that well on offense during Larry's time. AI was a NUT, then.

Its so easy to look at how Steph looks now and totally forget how he actually played before LB. This team scored 97ppg last year on 45% shooting which was actually pretty good considering the mess this team was last year. We just didn't play D. Mainly Steph didn't play D. Now he does. But LB took away his main weapon and I don't think this squad has the players to support the way LB wants to play offense. We don't have the same players. This team actually NEEDS Steph to drive and kick for wide open shots or find the big for easy layups like Nazr used to get. It would cut down on TO's and help these guys to get a good deal of easy buckets. No one is saying that we have to play that way the whole game, but our offense didn't need a complete re-write, just tweaking. It was the DEFENSE that needed an overhaul.

We could score on anybody last year, we just couldn't stop anyone. All we needed was some better post play, which we now have. We needed for JC to learn how to play more efficiently by taking better shots and driving more. JC did that, but LB has basically wasted him on the bench. Instead of increasing the number of curls for him and letting him get into a groove stroking the ball. JC doesn't need fewer shots, he needs MORE shots. Frye could take over the KT role and more, so we're fine there. We don't have even the poor level of TT at SF right now, but once that gets solved we should be good. With the same offense as last year but with an improved D, we would be winning right now.



McK1
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12/15/2005  8:28 PM
ummm...why do you think Chauncey and Larry clashed so much?

ummm...AI was 1 of the best movers w/o the ball in the NBA, second to [Brown coached] Reggie Miller.

Steph never played how I described his entire career including NY.

Dribbling at the 20 foot line looking for a lane and if that isn't there have Kurt come set a pick 20 feet out IS NOT probing.

Moving w/o the ball and causing a reaction from the D is 1 example of probing. AI and Nash do it alot. If Steph gives the ball up at the top of the key, he [and Crawford] just stand there afterwards. Prior, Steph rarely gave the ball up early at all.

the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
OldFan
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12/15/2005  8:33 PM
Posted by EnySpree:
Posted by Knight:
Posted by EnySpree:

No one has answered my question with any intelligence.

I want to know what will it take to get the King of coaching Larry Brown to come up with a game plan, starting line-up and rotation. What will it take to figure out what the strengths of his players are?

Tell me.........if you can't then I want to organize a protest of Larry Brown......I'm so dead serious about that.




The strengths of his players are loserness, pussiness, and retardedness--he is getting the most out of them, trust me. Find players who aren't those things and he'll play to their strengths as well. You want names? Billups, Rip, Prince, Sheed, and Big Ben. There you go.

[Edited by - Knight on 12-15-2005 6:13 PM]


So if our players are all of this then who should we get? Trade our roster for Detroit's roster?

No one has answered the question yet. Who the hell do the Knicks trade and for who will make Larry Brown all of a sudeen figure out a starting line-up, rotation and plan of attack?
No ones answered because there is no easy solution. LB isn't stupid this team just isn't an easy problem to solve. Maybe I'm confused but weren't you one of the guys who though it was possible to rebuild in NY - maybe not. Either way the Knicks are trying to run with a bunch of young players and players that play like young players 21 game is nothing. Even a combination of Red Aurbach, Red Holtzman, Pat Riley, Phil Jackson and John Wooden couldn't turn this team on a dime. Perhaps not even the great and wonderful Entry Spree could do it - I'm sorry I know that's nearly blasphemous.



[Edited by - oldfan on 12-15-2005 8:36 PM]
Pharzeone
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12/15/2005  9:52 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

I would love to get Mike Bibby. there's a PG who would flourish under Larry Brown. Just as we were comparing him to Marbury the other day he wins the game for Sacramento. The guy hits big shot after big shot, has size and plays tough defense. It's too bad no one wants our guys because they are so severely overpaid so we have to settle for the watson and atkins of the world

Reggie Miller and Mark Jackson both indicated that Brown is never happy with his pg. He expects alot of his point guard. Billups went on about how he had to get use to Brown coaching him. Wade doesn't care much for Brown, neither does LBJ. I think Brown has trouble relating to this young generation. The only problem is that Marbury is not that young but he has a childish mind. To me Marbury and Crawford are not real problem. The problem is that they do not get anything from the 3 spot. Q had two good games, and Ariza refuse to learn how to shoot. I mean he rather drive or pass off.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
tkf
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12/15/2005  9:59 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by McK1:

Kwame Brown and Fred Jones

if LA needs a big expiring to complete an Artest deal:

Odom AD to Indy

Artest Q Croshere to LA

Brown Fred Jones Bender to NY

[Edited by - McK1 on 12-15-2005 4:30 PM]

And you want to fire Isiah for his moves.

who on NY is a better post defender than Kwame Brown?

who on NY is a better perimeter defender than Jones?

Kwame has a 3 yr deal, Jones is still playing on his rookie contract.

but lemme guess, you are still waiting for isiah to convince Kobe to come play for the MLE and AD and Penny for KG and Wally Z...



[Edited by - McK1 on 12-15-2005 6:31 PM]

you can't be serious....

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Pharzeone
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12/15/2005  10:02 PM
Posted by McK1:

ummm...why do you think Chauncey and Larry clashed so much?

ummm...AI was 1 of the best movers w/o the ball in the NBA, second to [Brown coached] Reggie Miller.

Steph never played how I described his entire career including NY.

Dribbling at the 20 foot line looking for a lane and if that isn't there have Kurt come set a pick 20 feet out IS NOT probing.

Moving w/o the ball and causing a reaction from the D is 1 example of probing. AI and Nash do it alot. If Steph gives the ball up at the top of the key, he [and Crawford] just stand there afterwards. Prior, Steph rarely gave the ball up early at all.

To be honest I wasn't aware that Brown and Billups actually clashed but according to Billups they began rocky. AI clashed with Brown before the man even agreed to come to Philly and they are still clashing. I know he use to clash alot with Workman with the Pacers. He replaced Workman with Jackson and then resigned Jackson. He is funny about his pgs.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Who can we get to make LArry happy and appease the masses?

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