[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

marbury asks to be the SG...and brown says NO (article)
Author Thread
bobs3304
Posts: 24827
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 7/5/2005
Member: #948
11/18/2005  1:05 PM
Well...

very good discussion going on here.

gotta commend everyone for actually backing their arguements in a civil manner. can't say i've seen THAT before.


as far as marbury goes, the question is -- does he have the mental fortitude to allow Larry to convert him into something he's not (or hasn't been up till now)?

Knicksfan made a good point about what Steph SHOULD do -- that is, get everyone involved early in the game and then take over when it matters most (ala Jordan). But I think we should be asking ourselves, "Can Marbury be that GREAT?"

I don't think it's as simple as Brown nails it in his head, and Marbury eventually concedes, and then everyone goes home happy. I think there's more twists here than a Jamaican's braids.

Can you really LEARN how to "take over" in crunch time? I mean, can you?

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 11-18-2005 1:06 PM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
AUTOADVERT
boomann
Posts: 20685
Alba Posts: 26
Joined: 6/29/2005
Member: #938
USA
11/18/2005  1:09 PM
Can you really LEARN how to "take over" in crunch time? I mean, can you?

You gotta have clutch bones in your body.
"We need another shot blocker and we need more girth in the middle, once that happens we have a chance to be a pretty decent team" Isiah on draft night
SlimPack
Posts: 23588
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/14/2005
Member: #1009
USA
11/18/2005  1:12 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by SlimPack:
Well if you think about it alot of those coaches changed their philosophys after marbury was traded,

Could yopu be more specific? I'm not sure how flip or Skiles changed, and if you're thinking D'Antoni's style changed to more uptempo after Steph it's mainly because Steph and Hardaway refused to buy into that system. So rather than saying he changed I think it's more fair to say his style was thwarted by Steph (and others)


and also the reason he doesnt trust brown is becuase 1. the knicks are losing,

That was to be expected by most level headed analysts. And we should remember we were on the losing end of a season last year too, before LB. And we lost to LA even when Steph scored 45.

Point being, who's Steph to think he knows more about winning than Brown?
and 2. what larry brown is trying to do doesn't make any sense. a team doesnt need a pure PG to be successful, it doesn't make sense for larry to try and turn marbury into one when the team will obviously be much better off making more use of his natural talents.

I'm not sure about that. There have been teams who won with a pG as their leading scorer: Isiah, Magic, and clyde.

Magic was as pure as they come, in spite of being a great scorer.
Clyde wasn't nearly as gifted a PG as magic and stockton etc, but Red Holtzman had him playing in the Larry brown/Billups mold and it worked.
Isiah was often moved to the off-guard with Dumars playing the pure PG role.

so even the great scoring PGs played "the right way", what hasn't worked was guys dominating from the point to the exclusion of their teammates. Even the great oscar robertson couldn't do that, and he learned to make his teammates better.
Im starting to think that larry brown really is trying to manipulate zeke instead of win games.

To what end?

wow steph was the reason d'antoni didnt go uptempo two seasons ago in phoenix? i didnt know that, well when I made the comment about stephs coaches having changed their philosophies(spelled wrong cuase i suck at spelling) I had d'antoni and the fact that in his interview steph mentioned that he told byron scott should change the system in NJ, but he didnt listen, in mind. I origanally thought but now am not sure that byron has a different philosophy in new orleans, so i guess your right, the coaches were the same pre and post marbury so never mind about that. next, the reason why I said marbury doesnt trust brown becuase they are losing is becuase marbury was quoted as saying "If we lose, of course I'm not going to be happy playing like that," the article, to me, made is seem like marbury was only going to buy into browns system if it brought immediate victories. I know that it should be expected that the knicks would start out slow this year, in fact I predicted they would be 0-9 after this west coast swing. luckily I was wrong. and last but not least the end that I ment after saying the brown might be engaging in a power struggle with isiah is to..... I dont know, get a roster of smart playing veterans instead of the roster that isaih has assembled? the reason why I said that is because thats the rumor thats going around.







[Edited by - slimpack on 11-18-2005 1:43 PM]

[Edited by - slimpack on 11-18-2005 4:03 PM]
bobs3304
Posts: 24827
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 7/5/2005
Member: #948
11/18/2005  1:12 PM
Posted by boomann:
Can you really LEARN how to "take over" in crunch time? I mean, can you?

You gotta have clutch bones in your body.

that's what i think too.

i don't think it's something you can learn per say...

DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
bobs3304
Posts: 24827
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 7/5/2005
Member: #948
11/18/2005  1:15 PM
also, about marbury being a "pure" PG...


it doesn't matter.


all that matters is that his scoring comes in the flow of the offense, which it never really has.

if you've watched him thoughout his career (and even now), it seems as if he's running a set play every time down the floor, when in fact he might actually be doing that only half the time. Steph's not comfortable freelancing plays and being a playmaker. That's not natural to him.

In addition to being clutch, can you LEARN how to be a playmaker?
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
NotFrye
Posts: 20353
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/29/2005
Member: #935
11/18/2005  1:21 PM
Posted by joec32033:

there are 2 things I don't like with that article posted at the begining of this thread:

1-Steph Basically giving up then shatting on his teammates efforts (that line about why Frye scored 21)....seriously, what great PG says "well, he mady have scored 30 points, but remember I passed him the ball!", instead of saying the rookie had a great game and he looks very talented..

Where did Marbury say this?

Killa4luv
Posts: 27769
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 6/23/2002
Member: #261
USA
11/18/2005  1:22 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

also, about marbury being a "pure" PG...


it doesn't matter.


all that matters is that his scoring comes in the flow of the offense, which it never really has.

if you've watched him thoughout his career (and even now), it seems as if he's running a set play every time down the floor, when in fact he might actually be doing that only half the time. Steph's not comfortable freelancing plays and being a playmaker. That's not natural to him.

In addition to being clutch, can you LEARN how to be a playmaker?
how the hell do you konw when he is running a set play or is freelancing?

And how do you know how he feels comfortable playing?

Knight
Posts: 22775
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 7/21/2005
Member: #968
11/18/2005  1:33 PM
Posted by NotFrye:
Posted by joec32033:

there are 2 things I don't like with that article posted at the begining of this thread:

1-Steph Basically giving up then shatting on his teammates efforts (that line about why Frye scored 21)....seriously, what great PG says "well, he mady have scored 30 points, but remember I passed him the ball!", instead of saying the rookie had a great game and he looks very talented..

Where did Marbury say this?

http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/31478.htm

Marbury said the pick-and-roll plays have become predictable and he's being converged upon. "They know I'm going to go off a pick and roll looking to score, that's why Channing [Frye] is getting open shots," Marbury said.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
SlimPack
Posts: 23588
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/14/2005
Member: #1009
USA
11/18/2005  1:33 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by bobs3304:

also, about marbury being a "pure" PG...


it doesn't matter.


all that matters is that his scoring comes in the flow of the offense, which it never really has.

if you've watched him thoughout his career (and even now), it seems as if he's running a set play every time down the floor, when in fact he might actually be doing that only half the time. Steph's not comfortable freelancing plays and being a playmaker. That's not natural to him.

In addition to being clutch, can you LEARN how to be a playmaker?
how the hell do you konw when he is running a set play or is freelancing?

And how do you know how he feels comfortable playing?


well you don't exactly have to be a phychic to see that marbury wasnt comfortable last night, for the most part, against the lakers in the larry brown type of PG position. to quote the man himself.
I got 10 assists, and that felt like that was the hardest 10 assists I ever got ... I mean, I don't feel like I really contributed.

[Edited by - slimpack on 11-18-2005 1:34 PM]
bobs3304
Posts: 24827
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 7/5/2005
Member: #948
11/18/2005  1:36 PM
Killa, I've watched enough basketball to tell the difference b/w a set play (or what looks like 1), and freelancing.

How do I know what he's comfortable playing? see Slimpack for details...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
rvhoss
Posts: 24943
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/2/2004
Member: #777
Switzerland
11/18/2005  1:38 PM
DJ, it's these types of posts that lose me. While everyone seems to be saying it's just a matter of marbs listening to LB, you keep sticking to the hokey assumption that he's not a true leader.

However, in contrast, no one is able to point out who is a true leader until they have already won.

Is Iverson a true leader?
Posted by djsunyc:

[quote]here's one little point tho...i think we can all see that steph is not a true leader. there may be one in our midst...frye? craw? who knows but as long as steph is around, that leader will have a tough time emerging. so hopefully we all make this a smooth transition and that steph gets to the SG and goes nuts.


all kool aid all the time.
rvhoss
Posts: 24943
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/2/2004
Member: #777
Switzerland
11/18/2005  1:39 PM
I don't remember reading this anywhere.
I saw knight's post and there is an extreme different between:
"they were converging on me, that's how Frye was open"
AND
he mady have scored 30 points, but remember I passed him the ball!

The difference is comical.

This is where I use the term...Exposed.

Posted by NotFrye:
Posted by joec32033:

there are 2 things I don't like with that article posted at the begining of this thread:

1-Steph Basically giving up then shatting on his teammates efforts (that line about why Frye scored 21)....seriously, what great PG says "well, he mady have scored 30 points, but remember I passed him the ball!", instead of saying the rookie had a great game and he looks very talented..

Where did Marbury say this?




[Edited by - rvhoss on 11-18-2005 1:40 PM]
all kool aid all the time.
Knight
Posts: 22775
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 7/21/2005
Member: #968
11/18/2005  1:40 PM
http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/31478.htm

Marbury said the pick-and-roll plays have become predictable and he's being converged upon. "They know I'm going to go off a pick and roll looking to score, that's why Channing [Frye] is getting open shots," Marbury said.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
rvhoss
Posts: 24943
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/2/2004
Member: #777
Switzerland
11/18/2005  1:43 PM
like I said, there is an extreme difference between Him saying, that's why he was open (which is something a smart basketball mind would say) and discounting his abilities and attributing Frye's success to him.

I'm not even reading between the lines.

His quote can't be taken out of context.

The pick and roll was designed for him, they doubled him up, frye was open, he played it to perfection.

To me it's more of an explanation of why he only took 9 shots than anything else.

The assumption that he is dogging Frye is ludicrous and pure opinion/interpretation.


[Edited by - rvhoss on 11-18-2005 1:44 PM]
all kool aid all the time.
Knight
Posts: 22775
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 7/21/2005
Member: #968
11/18/2005  1:45 PM
He should be excited about Channing converting not disgruntled about being doubled.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
rvhoss
Posts: 24943
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/2/2004
Member: #777
Switzerland
11/18/2005  1:47 PM
They lost.
all kool aid all the time.
Knight
Posts: 22775
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 7/21/2005
Member: #968
11/18/2005  1:48 PM
But if that play is working, that wasn't the problem.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
rvhoss
Posts: 24943
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/2/2004
Member: #777
Switzerland
11/18/2005  1:49 PM
I don't recall him saying that was the problem.
all kool aid all the time.
Knight
Posts: 22775
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 7/21/2005
Member: #968
11/18/2005  1:52 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

I don't recall him saying that was the problem.

Then why was he talking about it? Just random thoughts? What point was he making by saying it?
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
rvhoss
Posts: 24943
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/2/2004
Member: #777
Switzerland
11/18/2005  1:52 PM
he was stating why he only had 9 shot attempts.
all kool aid all the time.
marbury asks to be the SG...and brown says NO (article)

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy