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MX25
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11/10/2005  3:11 AM
Posted by PresIke:
Posted by MX25:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by MX25:

Briggs is Correct. This team is so flawed it's not even funny. This is not an NBA Team. More like a street ball team.

OHHHHH LOOK AT CRAWFORD PUT BALL BETWEEN HIS LEGS AND AROUND HIS BACK. We not playing NBA Street here guys.

When Curry trade happened mostly everyone said "We def making playoffs and we gonna win 45-50 games"...then we start 0-4 and it's "We are rebuilding". Which is it? 45-50 win playoff team or rebuilding? Can't do both.


good point. which is it???

The Bulls started 0-9 last season while working in three rookies and went on to win 47 games. Which were they doing?

Bulls also played aside from spurs and pistons the best man and team defense in nba.

Ummm...the Bulls were not a good defensive team to start the season last year. Check the stats. They gave up over 100 pts in 5 of the first 9 games (all of which they lost) and 94, 97, 98, 99 in the others. Sorry, that's not the sign of a good defensive team.

Once again you are falling prey to hindsight and a lack of perspective on the Bulls start to last season.

I saw far better signs of defensive intensity than last year, and if you don't you are not watching the games. The second half was atrocious, and we need to work on A LOT OF THINGS, but we are not toast just yet.

The Bulls sucked to start last season too. Tey had poor defense and their players played terribily as well. That's the cold hard reality, regardless of how much one wants to make refutable distinctions like their suppossedly superior players or defense to start last season.



You have to understand this about Bulls and Knicks. Bulls had guys who were good defenders. Knicks have 1 guy (ariza). Rest are lost on defense.
AUTOADVERT
Erniecat
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11/10/2005  3:26 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Knight:
Posted by crzymdups:

people really need to chill out. this is all growing pains. once this team learns how to play together it's going to be very good. I swear.

That's BS. Our best experienced players are castoffs--who nobody wanted or wants now. We need some real ballers who will bring it every night.


agreed. they are the epitomy of castoffs. We can't rely on rookies to win games this year but we could play them more and live through the growing pains. too bad we gave chicago our lottery pick instead of Lee

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 11-10-2005 01:12 AM]


Exactly. That's why it kills me that we do not simply let Ariza, Frye and Lee get a ton of minutes already. Just let them play and keep playing. You simply cannot convince me it is in the best interest of our team to have the vets playing ahead of them.
Erniecat
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11/10/2005  3:35 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Knight:
Posted by crzymdups:

people really need to chill out. this is all growing pains. once this team learns how to play together it's going to be very good. I swear.

That's BS. Our best experienced players are castoffs--who nobody wanted or wants now. We need some real ballers who will bring it every night.


agreed. they are the epitomy of castoffs. We can't rely on rookies to win games this year but we could play them more and live through the growing pains. too bad we gave chicago our lottery pick instead of Lee

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 11-10-2005 01:12 AM]

A) you don't know what the negotiations were, what if Chicago wanted the pick AND Lee and Isiah held Lee out of the deal instead of swapping him for the pick. The only thing that planted that idea in your head is Briggs thinking out loud.

B) castoffs or not, they're extremely talented and they're learning to play not only for Brown, but with each other. We have 7 out of 12 guys who are brand new. The reason the rookies play well together is that they KNOW each other from Summer league. When the starters know how to play together, they will get better. It may take a month, but you might want to demonstrate a little patience.

C) Speaking of Chicago, they started 0-9 last year and finished with 47 wins. Parallels? Hmm... they had three rookies, three new starters and they were trying to figure out a rotation...SOUND FAMILIAR???? Anyone who has watched the NBA for a long time knows that it takes time for a team to learn how to play together. You can't just throw a bunch of guys together like a fantasy team and expect to win right away. Check Miami out, for instance, bunch of talented guys who've never played together. Meanwhile, Indiana, who have played together for years beat the stuffing out of them for the second time. And, Yeah, back in the day, Indiana was the youngest team to ever make the playoffs in 2001 under Zeke, and they struggled all season long. Young teams struggle. Teams with new players struggle. Throw in the new coach and it's going to take a while. Patience.

D) Patience.

Another example of a team that struggled because of lack of time playing together: 2004 US Olympic team. OK, that team was missing a lot of All-Stars who chose not to play, but it still had way more talent than all the other international teams.
fishmike
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11/10/2005  8:09 AM
you know Briggs, despite being the resident drama queen of UK I generally enjoy your posts, but this is silly. Like 3 weeks ago you said you felt good about this team, that they had turned the corner and that they would win in the area of 45 wins. Did you think there would be ZERO adversity to overcome? Did it really only take 4 games for you to do a complete 360? Is Larry Brown Don Chaney or Herb Williams or Lenny Wilkins?

Please... have a beer.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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11/10/2005  8:40 AM
[quote]
Posted by fishmike:

you know Briggs, despite being the resident drama queen of UK I generally enjoy your posts, but this is silly. Like 3 weeks ago you said you felt good about this team, that they had turned the corner and that they would win in the area of 45 wins. Did you think there would be ZERO adversity to overcome? Did it really only take 4 games for you to do a complete 360? Is Larry Brown Don Chaney or Herb Williams or Lenny Wilkins?


I didnt realize we would get no contribution from big rump james, i didnt realize curry tires out in 20 minutes, that the vets give 80% effort of which many are shot anyway including davis,rose, penny, i did know that q was highly over-rated, but hes been just plain awful, our cohesion continually gets worse--this is not a good team and we have VERY little in terms of the ability to get better. except for one spurt, the play SOFT which is as bad as anything. they got MAULED by patterson randolph and miles physically beat up and taken to the cleaners. we can bring up the bulls and 0-9 all we want, i dont see a conduit like that team had and it was also abberational.
RIP Crushalot😞
fishmike
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11/10/2005  9:14 AM
Ive seen enough of Q to know he's going to find his groove, but on the boards and shooting the ball. Two things he's very good at. Curry's conditioning is clearly a problem but again, its temporary. I think the big dissapointment has been AD who is either dogging it or has nothing left in the tank. The other stuff will work itself out. If it doesnt it just accelerates Frye and Lee and even Butler's contributions. The 0-9 Bulls are an example but I dont really care about them. Talk soft all you want we arent playing how we are capable of, plain and simple. If Marbury hits a couple 4th qtr FTs in game one and Larry sticks with the kids against GS we are probably 2-2 and the sky isnt falling.

You really going to tell me all the things you listed at what they are for the next 6 months? And that after 4 games you have a solid confident read on this team?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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11/10/2005  9:26 AM
Posted by fishmike:

Ive seen enough of Q to know he's going to find his groove, but on the boards and shooting the ball. Two things he's very good at. Curry's conditioning is clearly a problem but again, its temporary. I think the big dissapointment has been AD who is either dogging it or has nothing left in the tank. The other stuff will work itself out. If it doesnt it just accelerates Frye and Lee and even Butler's contributions. The 0-9 Bulls are an example but I dont really care about them. Talk soft all you want we arent playing how we are capable of, plain and simple. If Marbury hits a couple 4th qtr FTs in game one and Larry sticks with the kids against GS we are probably 2-2 and the sky isnt falling.

You really going to tell me all the things you listed at what they are for the next 6 months? And that after 4 games you have a solid confident read on this team?



I would say that IF Frye and Lee were given big minutes and they produced in a great way, Curry was able to give a hard 30 minutes, crawford plays a mid range game, i dont know.

This might not be the popular thing to say, but I think we need to trade marbury and change the dynamics of the team, but i think we are dead stuck with him. i would LOVE to pull a trade similar to what we got marbury for. So far that Marbury trade has been an absolute disaster--that is where we couldve gone in a different direction with this club, but no big deal now.
RIP Crushalot😞
Allanfan20
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11/10/2005  9:27 AM
Briggs, I'll give you Q, who hasn't been playing great, but you can't tell me you didn't expect this from James, who's been famous for what he's doing now. Coming into camp, out of shape and starting off real slow, only to end the season slow, slow, instead of REAL slow. He's just a bad player, with not a lot of potential.

What I'm worried about is Larry putting too much faith in Antonio, who hasn't played well at all. But then again, in the Portland game, like I said, everyone played like sheeeot, especially Marbury.

I agree with you whole heartedly that giving up all of those picks instead of Lee was assinine, but I think you're overreacting with everything else, in terms of the players. I still like what we have, but this team still desperately needs someone to spell Allan Houston. Quentin has some range, but he has never played like that his entire life. I expect a trade for a shooting guard to occur, and I wouldn't be surprised if it involved Marbury.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
s3231
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11/10/2005  9:41 AM
We're 0-4, OMG, I shouldn't even watch another Knick game because we are done for the season

I can't believe Knick fans have the balls to say that they want their team to rebuild but are ready to give up on the season after only 4 games. I've seen 3 out of the 4 games we played (only one I missed was one against Warriors) and I didn't see anything in those 3 games that gave me reason to believe we should just throw in the towel right now. Hell, if this team had a different attitude late in the game we would be 4-0 or 3-1 right now. This team just doesn't know how to win. Did you guys really expect Larry to come in and make this team a winning team right off the bat? Please, this process takes time. When you look at the games that we have played, a bunch of things stick out to me:

1. Richardson isn't playing like half the player that he truly is. Yet, we still have been able to stay competitive in these games until the closing minutes.

2. Yes, Marbury is turning the ball over. That happens when you are learning a new system. However, I'm surprised no one talks about how much effort he is putting on the defensive end. He is hustling and truly wants to win.

3. Curry is not in the shape that he should be in but he is still making an impact. As the season goes on, he will only play better.

4. The rookies (Frye especially) give me a ton of hope. Watching Frye guard Randolph a couple of times made me think about how many other rookies would have been able to stop Randolph like Frye did in those 1 on 1 situations (yes he didn't guard him too many times, but when he did, Frye did a good job). Lee may never be more than a good player to have off the bench but he makes an impact. He plays like a winner. Nate has showed promise but he needs to learn how to get others involved more.

5. We have no consistent rotation. Once guys like Richardson, Crawford, and Curry are getting the major minutes each night that we need them to get, they will be making more of an impact.

6. Had we won that Golden State game we would be 2-2 right now. A win would really lift up the spirits of this team right now. Until that happens, we will continue to see sloppy play in the crucial moments of the game. Once this team can win that one game, I think/hope the confidence level will go up a little bit more.

We still have a ton of work to do. However, I don't see any major problems that can't be corrected with this team. The starting lineup has to at least keep us at status quo during games, but they should be doing better than the other teams starters on a number of occassions. With Crawford in the SL, this should help improve that situation.

82, remember that number


[Edited by - s3231 on 11-10-2005 09:45 AM]
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
Silverfuel
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11/10/2005  9:46 AM
good post s3231. I am bitter about the Knicks losing but I want to see what Larry Brown can do with this roster. After about 30 games.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Knight
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11/10/2005  10:01 AM
Major problems that can't be corrected: we don't have quality shooters and our point guards.
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Nalod
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11/10/2005  10:03 AM
Brigg-A-Doom!

sorry to have laid that name and your fulfilling its label. The grass is always greener with picks of unknown quatitiy, and players with untold athletic potential. Logically a Gm wins but makes some moves that don't pan out.

I don't think we finish bottom 5 and we not getting a franchise player. I think that Eddie in a years time can be in better shape, thus rebound better, and get more minutes. PF's should drop if he gets his legs.

Can Eddie do this inside the time a rookie would have to adjust to life in the NBA? ANy 6-11 monsters got draft potential to contribute big in the next season? Not really, so lets not say Eddie was a waste and we gave up the overal no. 1 pick.

Riding the Bi-polar coaster is not for everyone!
Silverfuel
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11/10/2005  10:05 AM
Posted by Knight:

Major problems that can't be corrected: we don't have quality shooters and our point guards.
We were doing very well in the 1st half with the same shooters and point guards. I think what we need is better defense and execution towards the end of games. Thats why we lost the game IMO.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
BRIGGS
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11/10/2005  10:10 AM
Posted by Nalod:

Brigg-A-Doom!

sorry to have laid that name and your fulfilling its label. The grass is always greener with picks of unknown quatitiy, and players with untold athletic potential. Logically a Gm wins but makes some moves that don't pan out.

I don't think we finish bottom 5 and we not getting a franchise player. I think that Eddie in a years time can be in better shape, thus rebound better, and get more minutes. PF's should drop if he gets his legs.

Can Eddie do this inside the time a rookie would have to adjust to life in the NBA? ANy 6-11 monsters got draft potential to contribute big in the next season? Not really, so lets not say Eddie was a waste and we gave up the overal no. 1 pick.

Riding the Bi-polar coaster is not for everyone!


oh man, briggs doom. i dont know if you looked at larry brown talking last night, but he made me look optomistic. when it comes from the leader, you stand up and pay attention. hes very negative right now to say the least. again, im not saying we dont have some pieces and of course will have some games that we look like a 50 win team, but i think we may have to rid ourselves of marbury, get a pass first tempo G and some tough guys, get Q and Craw shooting the ball and maybe we can talk.
RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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11/10/2005  10:13 AM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by Knight:

Major problems that can't be corrected: we don't have quality shooters and our point guards.
We were doing very well in the 1st half with the same shooters and point guards. I think what we need is better defense and execution towards the end of games. Thats why we lost the game IMO.



sorry but what i watched was a pit bull mauling in the second half, that wasnt a letdown, that was an arse whipping. they showed more toughness, more skill and better cohesion.
RIP Crushalot😞
Silverfuel
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11/10/2005  10:16 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by Knight:

Major problems that can't be corrected: we don't have quality shooters and our point guards.
We were doing very well in the 1st half with the same shooters and point guards. I think what we need is better defense and execution towards the end of games. Thats why we lost the game IMO.
sorry but what i watched was a pit bull mauling in the second half, that wasnt a letdown, that was an arse whipping. they showed more toughness, more skill and better cohesion.
defense and execution. We did get out muscled in the paint.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
islesfan
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11/10/2005  10:44 AM
I'm not going to make a big deal about going 0-4 but isn't it obvious, even after just 4 games that this team is seriously flawed and horribly put together in terms of the pieces just not fitting together?

And don't bring up the Bulls from last year. That's just the whole Ariza and Shawn Marion argument all over again. Just because one team recovers from a horrid start doesn't mean that this team will.

This team is relying on a bunch of career underachievers and our 1st and 2nd year players aren't nearly as talented as the Bulls 1st and 2nd year player last year. Anyone not funneling Kool-Aid would take Hinrich, Gordon, Deng and Duhon over Ariza, Frye, Nate and Lee.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
martin
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11/10/2005  10:50 AM
Posted by islesfan:

I'm not going to make a big deal about going 0-4 but isn't it obvious, even after just 4 games that this team is seriously flawed and horribly put together in terms of the pieces just not fitting together?

And don't bring up the Bulls from last year. That's just the whole Ariza and Shawn Marion argument all over again. Just because one team recovers from a horrid start doesn't mean that this team will.

well, 0-4 is not the same as 0-9 though. And lots of .500 teams go through 1-5, 0-5, 0-4 stretches. We'll also see some 3-0, 4-0, 5-1 games put together later in the year.


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tkf
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11/10/2005  10:54 AM
Posted by islesfan:

I'm not going to make a big deal about going 0-4 but isn't it obvious, even after just 4 games that this team is seriously flawed and horribly put together in terms of the pieces just not fitting together?

And don't bring up the Bulls from last year. That's just the whole Ariza and Shawn Marion argument all over again. Just because one team recovers from a horrid start doesn't mean that this team will.

This team is relying on a bunch of career underachievers and our 1st and 2nd year players aren't nearly as talented as the Bulls 1st and 2nd year player last year. Anyone not funneling Kool-Aid would take Hinrich, Gordon, Deng and Duhon over Ariza, Frye, Nate and Lee.

maybe you are funneling the hater-aid..

again we have the luxury of seeing Hinrich for two years, gordon fora year and deng and duhon for a year or two.. outside of ariza we have seen frye, nate and lee play for 3 to 4 games, and yet you are going to tell me that by seasons end, they can't be just as good?

Ridiculous..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
rvhoss
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11/10/2005  11:13 AM
Huh? Anyone?
Posted by islesfan:

Anyone not funneling Kool-Aid would take Hinrich, Gordon, Deng and Duhon over Ariza, Frye, Nate and Lee.


all kool aid all the time.
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