islefan: come on man, you are reaching. Matt barnes is a decent player, but remember he is 5 years older than ariza and right now, ariza is making a bigger impact than barnes. I don't see why you are finding this so hard... The difference here is that with all ariza's raw skill, he lack of a handle and a jumper, he is still managing to come into games and get 11 points 7 boards a block a couple of steals and assists. Now either the rest of the league is dumb, or they just don't know how to play this kid. either way, he is a impact now. the question is, once he improves his jumper and his handle, how good will he be then? The potential is there..

tkf, every young player in the league has potential but there's no guarantee that they will ever uptap it much less become a star. That's all that I'm saying but apparently that's not good enough.

Now, it's not exaclty ALL that you were saying But this is a real post. I guess the key is to just let the anger vent and then he becomes normal. Now I know why you a liked in person...you wierd in posts and get to vent here, then on to life. (like an alter ego or something)

Cool...I'm not sure why barnes starts, but I think after this west coast debacle, he's basically gonna bench all the stiffs and go with the new NBA, the one that Van Gundy hates, the one that got stevie franchise booted out of Houston and is as old as Ewing's knees.

It a new league fellas and we have all the players that embody it, once LB loosens the reigns, Ariza, Craw, Lee, Frye and N8 are going to terrorize the league...oh and curry too, but his heart isn't ready for this type of running baby!

Curry, Marbs and Q are our playoff players, slowed down game, half court sets. Frye ofcourse fits that as well. The only question left is who will be starting and who will be 6th man of the year...Craw or Reezy?

Regardless, in 3 year's (prediction alert) reezy will be an all star:
pierce will be over the hill [or in the west]
vince will not get any fan votes playing in brooklyn for a sub .500 team
who else is there? Oh, that kid in Charlotte, it's basically him and Ariza battling for the all star game IMHO.

Posted by islesfan:

tkf, every young player in the league has potential but there's no guarantee that they will ever uptap it much less become a star. That's all that I'm saying but apparently that's not good enough.

Posted by nyk4ever:

TKF, I think the perfect comparison is Marcus Camby. Camby came in and did the same things that Ariza does but he never really improved much and thats fine beucase he's a pretty good player in the NBA and a fringe all-star at best. Camby and Ariza have games based on energy and athleticism and Ariza will eventually develop a bit more of a jumper and well worth keeping on this roster for 10-13 years but I'm not expecting him to ever be a goto player.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 11-07-2005 4:29 PM]

good point, but camby established himself when he came to the knicks, in 1999 was his breakout year, by then camby was about 24, with a reputation of being lazy and not a hard worker...

Ariza is 20 and look he is already drawing comparisons to camby who is a fantastic player, and the key is that ariza was never looked upon as lazy, but a hard worker, eager to learn... If ariza becomes a fringe allstar like camby, I will be happy...

No but if this is another case of you feeling the need for some sort of validation then go right ahead and think that.

If I need validation, I will get it from someone worthwhile, so please don't feel the need to validate me.

Umm ok, like I said using those guidelines then you can say the same for any young player in the league. How about Matt Barnes? Does he have "star potential" too?

Umm okay, every young player in the league is a 19 year old obscure second round pick who starts producing immediately. Sound ridiculous?

Matt Barnes 25 years old:
Career Averages:
YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
03-04 LAC 38 9 19.1 .457 .154 .705 1.4 2.6 4.0 1.3 .71 .08 1.16 2.00 4.5
04-05 SAC 43 9 16.6 .411 .227 .603 1.1 2.0 3.1 1.3 .70 .16 1.05 1.90 3.8
04-05 -- 43 9 16.6 .411 .227 .603 1.1 2.0 3.1 1.3 .70 .16 1.05 1.90 3.8
05-06 NYK 3 3 21.0 .400 .250 .750 2.0 4.0 6.0 1.0 .67 .00 1.67 2.00 6.7
Career 84 21 17.9 .430 .205 .659 1.3 2.3 3.6 1.3 .70 .10 1.12 1.90 4.2

Trevor Ariza 20 years old:
CAREER AVERAGES
YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
04-05 NYK 80 12 17.3 .442 .231 .695 1.1 1.9 3.0 1.1 .88 .23 .91 1.90 5.9
05-06 NYK 3 0 24.7 .478 .000 .500 2.0 3.3 5.3 .7 2.33 .33 1.33 1.30 8.0
Career 83 12 17.5 .444 .200 .691 1.1 2.0 3.1 1.0 .93 .20 .93 1.90 5.9

***

No difference to your eyes I guess. Well, I can't make you understand basketball...

No, all you have is the hope that he'll improve.

I do hope he improves, but I have more than just that hope. I have evidence of his improvement already, and he was pretty good to begin with.

All young players in the NBA have some skill or they wouldn't be in the league but what separates Ariza from all the others? Apparently your hopes and dreams.

Who is talking about all the others? Some have more potential, but not that many. And yes I do hope and dream he improves. Apparently you think this is unlikely for a 20 year old player. Just because your game never got better don't hate on Ariza.

It's going to be a pretty clear night tonight, maybe you can find a shooting star and wish that Ariza will become a star. That's pretty much what you're doing here.

Very colorful, but you still have yet to express a basketball opinion. Perhaps if you spent the time you use on insulting people to come up with a decent argument you would not have to spend your time coming up with insults.

Sure it did. Oh wait, I forgot, only you're allowed to make "snyde" remarks in a discussion that had nothing to do with you. Sorry, my bad.

Once again, it actually pertained to the discussion. I can see that this distinction is lost on you son.

Funny but I was thinking the same thing.

You were thinking? That's the funniest thing I've ever seen you write.

And yes, that is very sad but hey, at least you saw Artest becoming a star when most people didn't.

Yes at least. But if you are a big St. Johns fan like me, it really was kind of obvious. But please don't become a St. Johns fan, we don't need the negative energy.

oohah

I think you're making the mistake of comparing Ariza to a lot of players in their mid 20s right now. Sure Ariza's not the polished offensive player Marion is now. But compare Marion at age 20 (when he was still in college) or at 21 in the NBA to Ariza now. Maybe by 22 when Marion was a 17 PPG scorer, the difference will show up. Or maybe Ariza's offensive game will progress at the same rate Marion's did. He's probably ahead of Marion's pace right now by at least 1 year.

We will never know how good our youngins truly are until they play heavy minutes. Ariza and Lee should be sharing the SF position....Ariza should be the starter and Lee as backup. Frye and Davis can share the PF spot, Frye can be the starter...Curry and Butler can be the Centers, Curry starts, and Butler can back him up. Forget about Rose, Mo. and James....Mo can remain on the active roster and Penny, Rose and James all inactive....

Posted by fishmike:

forget about pros, I'm talking about college players. If you saw Marion in college, or Igodala you would see what I am talking about. If anything Ariza is BEHIND those guys, not ahead. Maybe he eventually catches them but it appears he's got to learn skills that those guys had when they were recruited out of HS

How's he behind Marion when he's more productive on both ends of the court at age 20 than Marion was at age 21?

because he's a knick and this year it's vogue to dog our own players.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by fishmike:

forget about pros, I'm talking about college players. If you saw Marion in college, or Igodala you would see what I am talking about. If anything Ariza is BEHIND those guys, not ahead. Maybe he eventually catches them but it appears he's got to learn skills that those guys had when they were recruited out of HS

How's he behind Marion when he's more productive on both ends of the court at age 20 than Marion was at age 21?

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by fishmike:

forget about pros, I'm talking about college players. If you saw Marion in college, or Igodala you would see what I am talking about. If anything Ariza is BEHIND those guys, not ahead. Maybe he eventually catches them but it appears he's got to learn skills that those guys had when they were recruited out of HS

How's he behind Marion when he's more productive on both ends of the court at age 20 than Marion was at age 21?

are you serious? are you serious? Marion was a monster at UNLV and by his 2nd year in the pros he was like 18/10. Get real.

he's still got 2 MORE year's to catch marion's second year 22 year old 17/10.

that's all I'm saying, we're in agreement that he's 12/6 now (when starting)

Maybe his asthma will hold him back?

But 2 more year's under brown (who love's the kid) and I see him getting 17/10 in 2 MORE YEARS!

BTW...looking at marion's stats, he's been consistently AWESOME!