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Isiah Thomas - Extreme Knicks Makeover
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Silverfuel
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10/6/2005  11:36 AM
Posted by Marv:

ABouit LB and D - i don't think he can make everyone a good defensive player. I don't recall Eldon Campbell or Corlis WIlliamson showing much D. I didn't see anything out of Darko the 2 years that LB had to teach him D every day.

Curry played for Scott Skiles. He's a pretty good defensive-minded coach. No D out of him there.

ALso, re: the papers and articles - personally, i blow off most articles. There's hardly any substance. EIther that or a quick skim. but i put up a big filter and don't react much to them. EXCEPT CHAD!!
Agreed. He cannot make everyone play defense but he is the best coach we have had in a LONG time! I also think he is a much better coach overall than Scott Skiles. I am not concluding that LB will automatically mean all Knicks play D but I like our chances with LB and the talent. I am sure you agree with me.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
AUTOADVERT
Marv
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10/6/2005  11:40 AM
Posted by rvhoss:


I suck at basketball (can't hit free throws or dribble or shoot for that matter)

guys . . . RVHOSS IS JEROME JAMES!!!!!!!

but I get boards and play tough defense and my teams usually win.

never mind


Masterplan
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10/6/2005  11:43 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:

Marv, I've been saying that for quite sometime. Larry Brown can preach defense until the cows come home (First time I used that statement) but in the end, it's still up to the player to make the commitment and have the right attitude.

and that's what i see as the problem with curry. by all indications, curry is lazy and not committed to basketball. there's the worry that once he gets his guaranteed contract (i.e. now) he mails it in. will he work more now than when he still had to think about earning that max money? or will he do what he's already good at and ignore that annoying voice in his ear (LB) when he's trying to play ball?

you can contrast that to sheed, big ben, or whoever easily. i also see marbury as different. he plays with a chip on his shoulder, and i think with the right pieces around him he can buy in and take his game to another level, abuse his man on O and muscle him up on D. i have more faith in marbury's character than curry's by a whole heap and i want to see him succeed with this team. i guess i'll have to root for curry too.
rvhoss
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10/6/2005  11:45 AM
Marv, you just saved my day, there are tears in my eyes from the laughter

Posted by Marv:
Posted by rvhoss:


I suck at basketball (can't hit free throws or dribble or shoot for that matter)

guys . . . RVHOSS IS JEROME JAMES!!!!!!!

but I get boards and play tough defense and my teams usually win.

never mind


all kool aid all the time.
boomann
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10/6/2005  11:47 AM
i guess i'll have to root for curry too.


You'll have to root for the whole team because they all knicks and it's going to be great!
"We need another shot blocker and we need more girth in the middle, once that happens we have a chance to be a pretty decent team" Isiah on draft night
Marv
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10/6/2005  11:57 AM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by Marv:

ABouit LB and D - i don't think he can make everyone a good defensive player. I don't recall Eldon Campbell or Corlis WIlliamson showing much D. I didn't see anything out of Darko the 2 years that LB had to teach him D every day.

Curry played for Scott Skiles. He's a pretty good defensive-minded coach. No D out of him there.

ALso, re: the papers and articles - personally, i blow off most articles. There's hardly any substance. EIther that or a quick skim. but i put up a big filter and don't react much to them. EXCEPT CHAD!!
Agreed. He cannot make everyone play defense but he is the best coach we have had in a LONG time! I also think he is a much better coach overall than Scott Skiles. I am not concluding that LB will automatically mean all Knicks play D but I like our chances with LB and the talent. I am sure you agree with me.

2 words:

HELL

YES


HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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10/6/2005  12:47 PM
Posted by Nalod:

Note to posters. I too found Hardcores bias rants to be utterly redundant and unyielding.

He is slighty paranoid about a media conspiricy against the knicks. I think the media is warped by the mad payroll and has a bias. THey might see thing more objective than some emotionally chareged fans.

Fans come in many shapes and forms, and Mr. Hardcore is in one of the more enthusiastic corners and he likes it there. He's dyed in the wool and jumps in the dye vats and likes it that way. If he wears blinders, its cuz he put them on.

Once, this I took him on based on many of the logical arguments I though warranted a challange . His endurance to maintain his position earned my respect and he WILL get in the last word, and he WILL defend his point almost to the point of exaustion. Im not saying his defemse is as good as he thinks he does, but in the end its just all fun, and most important he rarely will antaganize any one with his enthusiasm toward the team. My conclusion was ulitmatly that this dude is consistant and predictable (thats a compliment) and who says what a good fan is, or what an even better fan would be? In his world, your either a hater, or your not. Nothing wrong with that.

In the end, we really mostly all agree on about 85% of the opinions thrown around and mostly have a pleasent banter about things. I myself are one of the few offenders, but thats my cross to bear. I like a good humored joust once in a while.

'Core is typical of many fans in many sports who is territorial about his city, and the knicks are property of not cablevision, but belongs to the CITY!

LOL!!! Nalod, I'm gonna hire you as my official PR man.

We've gone head to head too many times for us not to have that mutual respect for eachother (and the props were much appreciated). We had a whole lot to argue about back then! That's one of the best things about how it is now- especially after the Curry deal- just about everything I argued with you about a couple of years ago (no need to get into it, too numerous to mention) has since been addressed and for the most part resolved. So much about the Knicks used to piss me off, but now I am literally all smiles. Isiah getting Larry Brown to coach this team was the icing on the cake.

  • We have arguably the Best coach in the NBA.

  • We no longer have a height problem in the frontcourt. What makes that even better is that we have an impact player in the front line for the first time in too damn long.

  • We have a youth movement. Gone are the days when we were the oldest, shortest team in the league. We now have enough young players to have a bright future on the horizon.

  • We have players with talent and fire- something I have been saying for years that we needed. Isiah made that dream a reality. Now that TT was just moved, there are hardly any soft players left on this team.


While I agree that Larry Brown can help Curry and other improve on D, he's also very efficient in motivatiing players to give their all on the court. A lot of these players have something to prove, and from what they have been saying, seem eager to prove that they can flourish under LB's direction. Focus like that will show up in those very areas that Brown stresses- team play, max effort on both ends, and defensive-mindedness in general. That's what I am most anxious to see them the Knicks this season.

Silver, there's no need for me to defend my optimism. As long as cats like you, Nalod, Marv and other forum vets know where I stand, that's good enough for me.

We are gonna have alot of rooting to do this year. Isiah's extreme makeover leaves us no other choice!




Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
codeunknown
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10/6/2005  8:21 PM
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:


Glad to see you humor yourself with the labels.

I've been humoring you for quite a while now. Look, your logic in introducing "blind" posters into this thread, where only reasonable argument was being made, is incoherent and instigating. You put your foot in your mouth. There should be nothing circular or too diffult to understand there.

This banter is boring. Implying what? I have no problems stating my points outright, and haven't the need to "imply" anything. Hilarious.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Since you're so convinced that the odds are stacked against us, then why root for the Knicks at all?

Rooting for a team and their odds if winning don't have much to do with each other.

Because our roster and coach hasn't been this good in many years. I feel that only Indy, Miami and Detroit are in our way in the East.

That's subjective. Back it up.

Open a thread and ask everyone those questions. Better yet, post in some other thread besides this one.

People are free to answer them. Maybe having other Vurry supporters answer them will be more productive anyway.
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Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
codeunknown
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10/6/2005  9:16 PM
Here's how I hope this team can succeed with/despite the addition of Curry.

We need to run disciplined offense and shoot a high percentage to be successful. Our half-court D will not be impressive so stifling the opposing teams' running game will be crucial and making shots is a big part of that. To me, there are 5 keys to our offense - 1) frequent Curry post-ups, 2) Marbury/Frye pick and rolls 3) using Frye's jumpshooting as bait to unclog the lane for dribble penetration and back-door cuts (maybe even use Frye as a high post passer), 4) using Curry's ability to set screens for hand-offs and give and go's, 5) keep Marbury as the PG to save time getting into offensive sets and get better decision making. A caveat to 5 is if Crawford has suddenly decided to drive the ball to the basket. Hopefully, Crawford and Richardson show a commitment to cutting hard without the ball. We also need these guys give us consistent jump-shooting - something that remains a question mark.

Defensively, what can I say - lets hope Frye can cover for our perimeter guys when they force guys baseline and Ariza can play his way into the starting rotation. We need Curry to try and look more intimidating. Marbury and Crawford need to get over screens. Nate should get 20mpg if only to press opponent PGs.

Rebounding - we're going to get killed. Hopefully, 3 years down the line Frye and Curry can do better here.

Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
misterearl
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10/7/2005  9:11 PM
..Rebounding - we're going to get killed. Hopefully, 3 years down the line Frye and Curry can do better here.

Precisely why David Lee will get a shot to earn some pivotal mintes. He's taller than the advertised 6.9 and has ferocious hops.

Rumble young man, rumble!
once a knick always a knick
Bonn1997
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10/7/2005  9:14 PM
Posted by misterearl:

..Rebounding - we're going to get killed. Hopefully, 3 years down the line Frye and Curry can do better here.

Precisely why David Lee will get a shot to earn some pivotal mintes. He's taller than the advertised 6.9 and has ferocious hops.

Rumble young man, rumble!
I think our SG (Q) got the most rebounds per game of any Knick last year.

misterearl
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10/7/2005  9:25 PM
Bonn - good call. Superior rebounding is one of the reasons Tiny Timmy Thomas will not be missed

Heck, I expect Nate to sneak in the paint for a few choice moments of grandeur

Sheeh, now I'm starting to sound like Clyde

once a knick always a knick
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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10/7/2005  9:26 PM
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:


Glad to see you humor yourself with the labels.

I've been humoring you for quite a while now. Look, your logic in introducing "blind" posters into this thread, where only reasonable argument was being made, is incoherent and instigating. You put your foot in your mouth. There should be nothing circular or too diffult to understand there.

Just another circle. Back to the "blind posters" stuff. LOL There are way too many threads discussing this, but you still want to nitpick. Speaking of posting, how many other threads have you been posting here anyway? Give it up.

This banter is boring. Implying what? I have no problems stating my points outright, and haven't the need to "imply" anything. Hilarious.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Since you're so convinced that the odds are stacked against us, then why root for the Knicks at all?

Rooting for a team and their odds if winning don't have much to do with each other.

Their odds of winning based on what? Your opinion? I'll pass on that one, fella.

Because our roster and coach hasn't been this good in many years. I feel that only Indy, Miami and Detroit are in our way in the East.

That's subjective. Back it up.

Read the site. I'ts not my job to keep you up to speed. You back it up.

Open a thread and ask everyone those questions. Better yet, post in some other thread besides this one.

People are free to answer them. Maybe having other Vurry supporters answer them will be more productive anyway.

Again, it's all over the site. There are alot more threads than this one about similar topics, but I haven't seen you there (no surprise)...
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KNICKS IN 2006!!!!
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
Marv
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10/7/2005  9:32 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Bonn - good call. Superior rebounding is one of the reasons Tiny Timmy Thomas will not be missed

Heck, I expect Nate to sneak in the paint for a few choice moments of grandeur

Sheeh, now I'm starting to sound like Clyde

you could do a lot worse!

picture this for put-back jams: nate, reezy, frye, lee. yes!

codeunknown
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10/8/2005  2:01 PM
Hardcore, stop playing that tape in your head when you wake up every morning. What's it going to take to make you start talking basketball, fella? Relax. Here is my criticism of our squad, which you are free to refute.

Curry's pick and roll defense has sucked. His help defense has sucked. His one-on-one defense suffers with face-up players. He doesn't pass out of the post well. His jump-shot is mediocre. He doesn't run the break. His rebounding on both ends of the floor has really sucked. He doesn't challenge shots and gets miniscule block numbers. He gets called for 3 second violations frequently, offensively and defensively. His stamina has sucked.

Critiques of the rest of team - minus H2O, we have crappy outside shooting. Our guards don't move without the basketball. Our guards can't guard. Our guards get picked off on every possession. Crawford = post-up target. Marbury doesn't push the ball enough. Q-Rich doesn't believe in defense. Crawford has never heard of defense.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
PhilinLA
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10/8/2005  2:10 PM
codeunknown, Curry's 22 and is all upside. We were very lucky to get him. He's not a finished product yet, and has never had a really good coach before Brown.
http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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10/8/2005  2:15 PM
I've been talking basketball the whole time.

I see you are well versed in what's wrong with the team. OK, I see that's your focus, but do you believe that Larry Brown's coaching skills can address those isssues?

Truth is we all have to wait and see what comes out of training camp. IMO a better assesment can be made then.
There's no need to nitpick about the past issues of players without giving (arguably) the best coach in the NBA at least a chance to install his system & gameplan.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
EnySpree
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10/8/2005  2:25 PM
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Bonn1997
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10/8/2005  2:44 PM
Posted by EnySpree:


Big LOL!

misterearl
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10/8/2005  2:51 PM
codeunknown - you would complain if the Knicks added Shaq and Tim Duncan, while a tandem of Halle Berry, Jenna Jamison and Catherine Zeta-Jones were washing your car in the nude.

Isiah has just pulled off one of the most dramatic off-season re-builds of an NBA franchise, and all you can do is throw dirt balls?

No one is perfect. That's why you have a NEW YORKER as head coach with a merry band of assistants to correct flaws in the collective games of a young crew that seems ready to learn

what's your REAL problem with the Knickerbockers?

C'mon, fess up
once a knick always a knick
Isiah Thomas - Extreme Knicks Makeover

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