[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

OT--USA military shouldve helped get the people out of nO BEFORE the fact
Author Thread
OAK
Posts: 20517
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/11/2005
Member: #957
Japan
8/31/2005  11:02 PM
As for the energy issue, the world’s gotta follow the Swedes: (link to PDF file)
http://www.brgbiogas.se/upload/pages/Brochyr%20English(1).pdf

My Swedish friend is proud of how easily swedish people can contribute to their country's energy supply and its environment every day – by going to the toilet. She drives a Volvo that runs on methane which costs a bit more initially, but is cheaper long term and she pays less tax. We got solar energy/bio mass/wind power/geothermal/etc, etc - we don't need to send troops in harm's way getting killed & killing others for oil. We need to demand and invest more on clean alternative energy source. SAY NO TO SUVs!
AUTOADVERT
Rich
Posts: 27410
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 12/30/2003
Member: #511
USA
8/31/2005  11:12 PM
Posted by TheSage:

There are two potential Presidential candidates who do care for people, one from each party. Each of them is a personal friend of close friends of mine. Each is highly qualified and each is electable. Think of them come primary time. John McCain and Joe Biden

btw, I have always been a strong McCain supporter, but some of his actions in recent years seem to indicate that he is selling himself out to become president as he nears 70. He continues to praise Bush's handling of Iraq despite his abundant failures; in an attempt to pander to the immoral religious right he now supports teaching "intelligent design" in public school science classes even though it is not science but a repackaged form of creationism; and watching him hug Bush on the campaign trail was nauseating to the max.
nyvector16
Posts: 21341
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/9/2001
Member: #130
USA
8/31/2005  11:17 PM
If you want to get an informed idea about who is to blame for alot of our lack of preparation and the desasterous results I really recommend this article...

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,372455,00.html
nyvector16
Posts: 21341
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/9/2001
Member: #130
USA
8/31/2005  11:20 PM
In case you juswt wanted to read it here..


"No One Can Say they Didn't See it Coming"

By Sidney Blumenthal

In 2001, FEMA warned that a hurricane striking New Orleans was one of the three most likely disasters in the U.S. But the Bush administration cut New Orleans flood control funding by 44 percent to pay for the Iraq war.

Biblical in its uncontrolled rage and scope, Hurricane Katrina has left millions of Americans to scavenge for food and shelter and hundreds to thousands reportedly dead. With its main levee broken, the evacuated city of New Orleans has become part of the Gulf of Mexico. But the damage wrought by the hurricane may not entirely be the result of an act of nature.

A year ago the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers proposed to study how New Orleans could be protected from a catastrophic hurricane, but the Bush administration ordered that the research not be undertaken. After a flood killed six people in 1995, Congress created the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, in which the Corps of Engineers strengthened and renovated levees and pumping stations. In early 2001, the Federal Emergency Management Agency issued a report stating that a hurricane striking New Orleans was one of the three most likely disasters in the U.S., including a terrorist attack on New York City. But by 2003 the federal funding for the flood control project essentially dried up as it was drained into the Iraq war. In 2004, the Bush administration cut funding requested by the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers for holding back the waters of Lake Pontchartrain by more than 80 percent. Additional cuts at the beginning of this year (for a total reduction in funding of 44.2 percent since 2001) forced the New Orleans district of the Corps to impose a hiring freeze. The Senate had debated adding funds for fixing New Orleans' levees, but it was too late.

The New Orleans Times-Picayune, which before the hurricane published a series on the federal funding problem, and whose presses are now underwater, reported online: "No one can say they didn't see it coming ... Now in the wake of one of the worst storms ever, serious questions are being asked about the lack of preparation."

The Bush administration's policy of turning over wetlands to developers almost certainly also contributed to the heightened level of the storm surge. In 1990, a federal task force began restoring lost wetlands surrounding New Orleans. Every two miles of wetland between the Crescent City and the Gulf reduces a surge by half a foot. Bush had promised "no net loss" of wetlands, a policy launched by his father's administration and bolstered by President Clinton. But he reversed his approach in 2003, unleashing the developers. The Army Corps of Engineers and the Environmental Protection Agency then announced they could no longer protect wetlands unless they were somehow related to interstate commerce.

In response to this potential crisis, four leading environmental groups conducted a joint expert study, concluding in 2004 that without wetlands protection New Orleans could be devastated by an ordinary, much less a Category 4 or 5, hurricane. "There's no way to describe how mindless a policy that is when it comes to wetlands protection," said one of the report's authors. The chairman of the White House's Council on Environmental Quality dismissed the study as "highly questionable," and boasted, "Everybody loves what we're doing."

"My administration's climate change policy will be science based," President Bush declared in June 2001. But in 2002, when the Environmental Protection Agency submitted a study on global warming to the United Nations reflecting its expert research, Bush derided it as "a report put out by a bureaucracy," and excised the climate change assessment from the agency's annual report. The next year, when the EPA issued its first comprehensive "Report on the Environment," stating, "Climate change has global consequences for human health and the environment," the White House simply demanded removal of the line and all similar conclusions. At the G-8 meeting in Scotland this year, Bush successfully stymied any common action on global warming. Scientists, meanwhile, have continued to accumulate impressive data on the rising temperature of the oceans, which has produced more severe hurricanes.

In February 2004, 60 of the nation's leading scientists, including 20 Nobel laureates, warned in a statement, "Restoring Scientific Integrity in Policymaking": "Successful application of science has played a large part in the policies that have made the United States of America the world's most powerful nation and its citizens increasingly prosperous and healthy ... Indeed, this principle has long been adhered to by presidents and administrations of both parties in forming and implementing policies. The administration of George W. Bush has, however, disregarded this principle ... The distortion of scientific knowledge for partisan political ends must cease." Bush completely ignored this statement.

In the two weeks preceding the storm in the Gulf, the trumping of science by ideology and expertise by special interests accelerated. The Federal Drug Administration announced that it was postponing sale of the morning-after contraceptive pill, despite overwhelming scientific evidence of its safety and its approval by the FDA's scientific advisory board. The United Nations special envoy for HIV/AIDS in Africa accused the Bush administration of responsibility for a condom shortage in Uganda -- the result of the administration's evangelical Christian agenda of "abstinence." When the chief of the Bureau of Justice Statistics in the Justice Department was ordered by the White House to delete its study that African-Americans and other minorities are subject to racial profiling in police traffic stops and he refused to buckle under, he was forced out of his job. When the Army Corps of Engineers' chief contracting oversight analyst objected to a $7 billion no-bid contract awarded for work in Iraq to Halliburton (the firm at which Vice President Cheney was formerly CEO), she was demoted despite her superior professional ratings. At the National Park Service, a former Cheney aide, a political appointee lacking professional background, drew up a plan to overturn past environmental practices and prohibit any mention of evolution while allowing sale of religious materials through the Park Service.

On the day the levees burst in New Orleans, Bush delivered a speech in Colorado comparing the Iraq war to World War II and himself to Franklin D. Roosevelt: "And he knew that the best way to bring peace and stability to the region was by bringing freedom to Japan." Bush had boarded his very own "Streetcar Named Desire."
martin
Posts: 79007
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
9/1/2005  12:05 AM
Posted by nyvector16:

If you want to get an informed idea about who is to blame for alot of our lack of preparation and the desasterous results I really recommend this article...

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,372455,00.html

WOW. Just WOW.

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
Allanfan20
Posts: 35947
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #542
USA
9/1/2005  12:15 AM
Bush's response to the hurricane:

"I must say, Katrina, you are a very very bad girl and I order you to go to your room and stay there until I come up and search you for weapons of mass......Whoops."

**Calls for a press conference**

"Artention citezens of the UArs. I have now come to the concoosion that the tourists are hiding the noocular weapons in the natural disasters. We must fight them and thar will be no negosheons. I have suggested in the past that you bowel your water even with i**** in it. Not nescessary. Drink as is. That's my advise to you New Orleans. God Bless Garsoline prices, I mean Ameerica."
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
martin
Posts: 79007
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
9/1/2005  12:23 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by nyvector16:

If you want to get an informed idea about who is to blame for alot of our lack of preparation and the desasterous results I really recommend this article...

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,372455,00.html

WOW. Just WOW.




Just to be fair, the article was written by a former Clinton advisor.
Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
jazz74
Posts: 22318
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 12/24/2002
Member: #371
9/1/2005  7:15 AM
Posted by nyvector16:

In case you juswt wanted to read it here..


"No One Can Say they Didn't See it Coming"

By Sidney Blumenthal

In 2001, FEMA warned that a hurricane striking New Orleans was one of the three most likely disasters in the U.S. But the Bush administration cut New Orleans flood control funding by 44 percent to pay for the Iraq war.

Biblical in its uncontrolled rage and scope, Hurricane Katrina has left millions of Americans to scavenge for food and shelter and hundreds to thousands reportedly dead. With its main levee broken, the evacuated city of New Orleans has become part of the Gulf of Mexico. But the damage wrought by the hurricane may not entirely be the result of an act of nature.

A year ago the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers proposed to study how New Orleans could be protected from a catastrophic hurricane, but the Bush administration ordered that the research not be undertaken. After a flood killed six people in 1995, Congress created the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, in which the Corps of Engineers strengthened and renovated levees and pumping stations. In early 2001, the Federal Emergency Management Agency issued a report stating that a hurricane striking New Orleans was one of the three most likely disasters in the U.S., including a terrorist attack on New York City. But by 2003 the federal funding for the flood control project essentially dried up as it was drained into the Iraq war. In 2004, the Bush administration cut funding requested by the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers for holding back the waters of Lake Pontchartrain by more than 80 percent. Additional cuts at the beginning of this year (for a total reduction in funding of 44.2 percent since 2001) forced the New Orleans district of the Corps to impose a hiring freeze. The Senate had debated adding funds for fixing New Orleans' levees, but it was too late.

The New Orleans Times-Picayune, which before the hurricane published a series on the federal funding problem, and whose presses are now underwater, reported online: "No one can say they didn't see it coming ... Now in the wake of one of the worst storms ever, serious questions are being asked about the lack of preparation."

The Bush administration's policy of turning over wetlands to developers almost certainly also contributed to the heightened level of the storm surge. In 1990, a federal task force began restoring lost wetlands surrounding New Orleans. Every two miles of wetland between the Crescent City and the Gulf reduces a surge by half a foot. Bush had promised "no net loss" of wetlands, a policy launched by his father's administration and bolstered by President Clinton. But he reversed his approach in 2003, unleashing the developers. The Army Corps of Engineers and the Environmental Protection Agency then announced they could no longer protect wetlands unless they were somehow related to interstate commerce.

In response to this potential crisis, four leading environmental groups conducted a joint expert study, concluding in 2004 that without wetlands protection New Orleans could be devastated by an ordinary, much less a Category 4 or 5, hurricane. "There's no way to describe how mindless a policy that is when it comes to wetlands protection," said one of the report's authors. The chairman of the White House's Council on Environmental Quality dismissed the study as "highly questionable," and boasted, "Everybody loves what we're doing."

"My administration's climate change policy will be science based," President Bush declared in June 2001. But in 2002, when the Environmental Protection Agency submitted a study on global warming to the United Nations reflecting its expert research, Bush derided it as "a report put out by a bureaucracy," and excised the climate change assessment from the agency's annual report. The next year, when the EPA issued its first comprehensive "Report on the Environment," stating, "Climate change has global consequences for human health and the environment," the White House simply demanded removal of the line and all similar conclusions. At the G-8 meeting in Scotland this year, Bush successfully stymied any common action on global warming. Scientists, meanwhile, have continued to accumulate impressive data on the rising temperature of the oceans, which has produced more severe hurricanes.

In February 2004, 60 of the nation's leading scientists, including 20 Nobel laureates, warned in a statement, "Restoring Scientific Integrity in Policymaking": "Successful application of science has played a large part in the policies that have made the United States of America the world's most powerful nation and its citizens increasingly prosperous and healthy ... Indeed, this principle has long been adhered to by presidents and administrations of both parties in forming and implementing policies. The administration of George W. Bush has, however, disregarded this principle ... The distortion of scientific knowledge for partisan political ends must cease." Bush completely ignored this statement.

In the two weeks preceding the storm in the Gulf, the trumping of science by ideology and expertise by special interests accelerated. The Federal Drug Administration announced that it was postponing sale of the morning-after contraceptive pill, despite overwhelming scientific evidence of its safety and its approval by the FDA's scientific advisory board. The United Nations special envoy for HIV/AIDS in Africa accused the Bush administration of responsibility for a condom shortage in Uganda -- the result of the administration's evangelical Christian agenda of "abstinence." When the chief of the Bureau of Justice Statistics in the Justice Department was ordered by the White House to delete its study that African-Americans and other minorities are subject to racial profiling in police traffic stops and he refused to buckle under, he was forced out of his job. When the Army Corps of Engineers' chief contracting oversight analyst objected to a $7 billion no-bid contract awarded for work in Iraq to Halliburton (the firm at which Vice President Cheney was formerly CEO), she was demoted despite her superior professional ratings. At the National Park Service, a former Cheney aide, a political appointee lacking professional background, drew up a plan to overturn past environmental practices and prohibit any mention of evolution while allowing sale of religious materials through the Park Service.

On the day the levees burst in New Orleans, Bush delivered a speech in Colorado comparing the Iraq war to World War II and himself to Franklin D. Roosevelt: "And he knew that the best way to bring peace and stability to the region was by bringing freedom to Japan." Bush had boarded his very own "Streetcar Named Desire."


o.k. now we can rightfully blame the bush administration on this. this is ridiculous. i knew bush's carelessness dealing with the environment would come back and haunt him. but i thought it would be the drilling in alaska that would do it.
Knight
Posts: 22775
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 7/21/2005
Member: #968
9/1/2005  10:01 AM
I guess Sidney Blumenthal wrote that article so it must be truth.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
nyvector16
Posts: 21341
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/9/2001
Member: #130
USA
9/1/2005  11:16 AM
Posted by Knight:

I guess Sidney Blumenthal wrote that article so it must be truth.


The specifics he states in the article can easily be verified...
Maybe you should try to find an error in his facts before you discredit him.
fishmike
Posts: 53902
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
9/1/2005  11:31 AM
supposedly N.O. took more time to use the budgeted money than originally thought. In 2001 the fed yanked the remaining (but budgeted) funds to fuel the war in Iraq.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Rich
Posts: 27410
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 12/30/2003
Member: #511
USA
9/1/2005  11:47 AM
(The tax cuts wasted far more money than the war in Iraq.)

It's not just Sidney Blumenthal, it's some Republicans too:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0509010170sep01,1,5853346.story?coll=chi-news-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true

Despite continuous warnings that a catastrophic hurricane could hit New Orleans, the Bush administration and Congress in recent years have repeatedly denied full funding for hurricane preparation and flood control.

That has delayed construction of levees around the city and stymied an ambitious project to improve drainage in New Orleans' neighborhoods.

For instance, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers requested $27 million for this fiscal year to pay for hurricane-protection projects around Lake Pontchartrain. The Bush administration countered with $3.9 million, and Congress eventually provided $5.7 million, according to figures provided by the office of U.S. Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-La.).

[...]

"I'm not saying it wouldn't still be flooded, but I do feel that if it had been totally funded, there would be less flooding than you have," said Michael Parker, a former Republican Mississippi congressman who headed the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers from October 2001 until March 2002, when he was ousted after publicly criticizing a Bush administration proposal to cut the corps' budget.

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/12528233.htm

[...]

Being prepared for a disaster is basic emergency management, disaster experts say.

For example, in the 1990s, in planning for a New Orleans nightmare scenario, the federal government figured it would pre-deploy nearby ships with pumps to remove water from the below-sea-level city and have hospital ships nearby, said James Lee Witt, who was FEMA director under President Clinton.

Federal officials said a hospital ship would leave from Baltimore on Friday.

"These things need to be planned and prepared for; it just doesn't look like it was," said Witt, a former Arkansas disaster chief who won bipartisan praise on Capitol Hill during his tenure.

FEMA said some of its response teams were prepared.

Knight
Posts: 22775
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 7/21/2005
Member: #968
9/1/2005  1:36 PM
Posted by nyvector16:
Posted by Knight:

I guess Sidney Blumenthal wrote that article so it must be truth.


The specifics he states in the article can easily be verified...
Maybe you should try to find an error in his facts before you discredit him.

Just a healthy distrust of partisan politics--you can spin the "facts" anyway you want. We don't know the whole story behind the decisions made by the Bush administration and Blumenthal is only going to report whatever "facts" support his theory. Facts don't tell you anything, you have to interpret them--and I have my doubts about Blumenthal's ability to fairly interpret them.




[Edited by - Knight on 09-01-2005 1:38 PM]
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
BRIGGS
Posts: 53275
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
9/1/2005  2:15 PM
The only terrorist attack that could beat this is a massive nuclear or biological attack that could only *possibly* be executed by another superpower[s]. Honestly, this makes 9-11 look like a drive by shooting, this will eventually be WORSE IMHO, than the tsunami and I wont go into explanantion. I just pray and beg that we can now bring thr troops home, that we concentrate on rebuilding our nation in many facets.

People like Warren Buffet + Bill Gates HAVE to step up here--no reason to hord 60 billion dollars, especially the FRUGAL Buffet--atleast Gates's wife broke the man and opened his pockets to third world countries--now we are literally a third world country in great peril--facing a MASSIVE outbreak of disease that could leave so many dead bodies I dont want to think about it. Right now this is a metastatic tumor growing at a rapid pace and it appears as if only God-like intervention is going to help.

A btch-slap to the face of America-our focus is so off kilter, our nation is crumbling, I hope and pray that atleast the first step of bringing the troops home can start the revitalization of this growing cesspool
RIP Crushalot😞
djsunyc
Posts: 44929
Alba Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
9/1/2005  2:19 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

The only terrorist attack that could beat this is a massive nuclear or biological attack that could only *possibly* be executed by another superpower[s]. Honestly, this makes 9-11 look like a drive by shooting, this will eventually be WORSE IMHO, than the tsunami and I wont go into explanantion. I just pray and beg that we can now bring thr troops home, that we concentrate on rebuilding our nation in many facets.

People like Warren Buffet + Bill Gates HAVE to step up here--no reason to hord 60 billion dollars, especially the FRUGAL Buffet--atleast Gates's wife broke the man and opened his pockets to third world countries--now we are literally a third world country in great peril--facing a MASSIVE outbreak of disease that could leave so many dead bodies I dont want to think about it. Right now this is a metastatic tumor growing at a rapid pace and it appears as if only God-like intervention is going to help.

A btch-slap to the face of America-our focus is so off kilter, our nation is crumbling, I hope and pray that atleast the first step of bringing the troops home can start the revitalization of this growing cesspool

so briggs, what are you really trying to say?
Silverfuel
Posts: 31750
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 6/27/2002
Member: #268
USA
9/1/2005  2:21 PM
Posted by Knight:

Facts don't tell you anything, you have to interpret them--and I have my doubts about Blumenthal's ability to fairly interpret them.

From dictionary.com
fact Pronunciation Key (fkt)
n.
1. Knowledge or information based on real occurrences

I think you have facts confused with stats.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
simrud
Posts: 23392
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/13/2003
Member: #474
USA
9/1/2005  2:55 PM
At this point its pretty clear that Bush and his whole group of "Republicans" if thats what we are callin them, because I'm not even sure the majority of Repbulicans support the cabinets decisions any more, are fing terrible.

The man and his group of crookl should be tried on multiple counts after his term is done, corruption, negligence, etc. Too bad it will never happen.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
Rich
Posts: 27410
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 12/30/2003
Member: #511
USA
9/1/2005  4:08 PM
Posted by Knight:
Posted by nyvector16:
Posted by Knight:

I guess Sidney Blumenthal wrote that article so it must be truth.


The specifics he states in the article can easily be verified...
Maybe you should try to find an error in his facts before you discredit him.

Just a healthy distrust of partisan politics--you can spin the "facts" anyway you want. We don't know the whole story behind the decisions made by the Bush administration and Blumenthal is only going to report whatever "facts" support his theory. Facts don't tell you anything, you have to interpret them--and I have my doubts about Blumenthal's ability to fairly interpret them.




[Edited by - Knight on 09-01-2005 1:38 PM]

It's not just Blumenthal, it's Republicans too, as I posted above.

Here's an article from March 7, 2002 that reports on why that Republican was fired:

http://orig.clarionledger.com/news/0203/07/m05.html

The assistant secretary of the Army, Mississippi's former U.S. Rep. Mike Parker, was forced out Wednesday after he criticized the Bush administration's proposed spending cuts on Army Corps of Engineers' water projects, members of Congress said.

"Apparently he was asked to resign," said U.S. Rep. Roger Wicker, R-Miss., a member of the House Appropriations Committee's energy and water development subcommittee that oversees the corps' budget.

Sen. Kent Conrad, D-N.D., chairman of the Senate Budget Committee, also said Parker was dismissed.

Parker's nomination to head the corps drew heavy criticism last year from environmental groups pushing to downsize the agency, calling its flood control projects too costly and destructive.

Parker earned the ire of administration officials when he questioned Bush's planned budget cuts for the corps, including two controversial Mississippi projects.

"I think he was fired for being too honest and not loyal enough to the president," said lobbyist Colin Bell, who represents communities with corps-funded projects.

Bell said Parker resigned about noon after being given about 30 minutes to choose between resigning or being fired.

__

Loyalty comes before competence in the Bush Administration, and the country is now paying for it...again.
Rich
Posts: 27410
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 12/30/2003
Member: #511
USA
9/1/2005  5:23 PM
Jack Cafferty tells it like it is on CNN:

"I gotta tell you something, we got five or six hundred letters before the show actually went on the air, and no one - no one - is saying the government is doing a good job in handling one of the most atrocious and embarrassing and far-reaching and calamatous things that has come along in this country in my lifetime. I'm 62. I remember the riots in Watts, I remember the earthquake in San Francisco, I remember a lot of things. I have never, ever, seen anything as bungled and as poorly handled as this situation in New Orleans. Where the hell is the water for these people? Why can't sandwiches be dropped to those people in the Superdome. What is going on? This is Thursday! This storm happened 5 days ago. This is a disgrace. And don't think the world isn't watching. This is the government that the taxpayers are paying for, and it's fallen right flat on its face as far as I can see, in the way it's handled this thing."
Knight
Posts: 22775
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 7/21/2005
Member: #968
9/1/2005  5:25 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by Knight:

Facts don't tell you anything, you have to interpret them--and I have my doubts about Blumenthal's ability to fairly interpret them.

From dictionary.com
fact Pronunciation Key (fkt)
n.
1. Knowledge or information based on real occurrences

I think you have facts confused with stats.

No, I don't. Facts say that something happened but what to make of it requires interpretation --some kind of evaluation beyond the fact of the matter.

[Edited by - Knight on 09-01-2005 5:31 PM]
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
OT--USA military shouldve helped get the people out of nO BEFORE the fact

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy