we needed a center...are you suddenly not in agreement to that.

And sign what other impact players?

And put our future in the hands of a 20 year old kid with asthma?

Are you sure you just aren't crying about JJ and lashing out in all directions?

Do we know for a fact that it was a bad move.

Added: Larry Brown, Q-Rich, David Lee, Jerome James, Nate Robinson, Channing Frye; Subtracted: Kurt Thomas; There's nothing to complain about!



[Edited by - rvhoss on 08/10/2005 12:50:28]

what are you talking about? Ariza played a full season. Jerome James misses 30 games a year. What you dont get is we still need a center. Nothing has changed, except the fact that we added a guy thats good for 15 minutes of ball, 50 games a year and we have him for 5 years. Lashing out? Where do you get this stufF?

I just think the constant bashing of a $5 mill starting center is kind of lashing out at nothing.

You want to save money, but in one summer we filled every single need...at this point, we are looking to dump players.

He's not over paid, I think he's paid exactly what his market value asks. IMHO...it's just my opinion.

But to keep saying we should have done NOTHING when we get another MLE next year AND this $5 mill isn't stopping us from signing anyone in the future OR kill our cap flexibility...

I'm just wondering what the big deal actually is.

RV.. do you work for a living?

Let me try to put this into terms that make sense.

Say your a factory worker. You boss hires a new guy. Now this new guy fills a need. However you also new this new guy has a major problem with attendance, and misses about 25 days a year more than other workers. you also find out that after 5 years in the industry this new guy is considerably less productive than other workers in the same job. Then you learn despite a horrible attendance record and lack of production at previous jobs he's not only making the average salary in your workplace, but he's guarenteed that salary for 5 years. Now while most people are shaking their heads saying this makes no sense there IS *one* guy who keeps saying things like "how do you know he wont be different here?" and "you KNOW for a fact that this guy wont do a good job? Lets give him a chance!"
I guess that one guy would be you. Personally, I would be in favor of doing nothing and possibly even waiting a year for a better employee to come along, rather than hurt my payroll with such a long commitment to such an unproven entity, but thats just me. I work in the normal business world where a completely different set of rules apply.

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by rvhoss:

what he said!

Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

Maybe that same energy spent whining could be better spent simply waiting to see if Big Game James will step up the the challenge this season (especially under Larry).

why do I have to sit and pretend a bad move isnt bad? I hope JJ is awesome and does things he's never done before over the course of the year. Whats more likely is you get what you get. 50 games of a big body that sometimes comes to play and sometimes doesnt.

That's the thing. So many are calling all these moves bad, when they have yet to be tested. The JJ signing is not "bad" until actual play during the season proves it to be so. What if James turns out to be the beast in the frontcourt? All of a sudden that deal gets really good.

I guess I'd just call the JJ signing somewhat suspect, but definitely not "bad". The season will tell the story.

Posted by Bonn1997:

I guess I'd just call the JJ signing somewhat suspect, but definitely not "bad".

That's what I'd call. I'd call it a risk that could work out great or terribly

Exactly. To oversensationalize it with negative labels this early on is a waste of time. There's really no reason whatsoever for pessimism like that, when the season is still about 3 months away.

Now the Nets pickup of Marc Jackson? THAT is BAD.

Posted by fishmike:

is there such a thing as a bad risk or a good risk?

yes; is there such a thing as an unknown risk or do you ALWAYS know how risky every decision is?

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 08/10/2005 13:57:05]

Posted by fishmike:

RV.. do you work for a living?

Let me try to put this into terms that make sense.

Say your a factory worker. You boss hires a new guy. Now this new guy fills a need. However you also new this new guy has a major problem with attendance, and misses about 25 days a year more than other workers. you also find out that after 5 years in the industry this new guy is considerably less productive than other workers in the same job. Then you learn despite a horrible attendance record and lack of production at previous jobs he's not only making the average salary in your workplace, but he's guarenteed that salary for 5 years. Now while most people are shaking their heads saying this makes no sense there IS *one* guy who keeps saying things like "how do you know he wont be different here?" and "you KNOW for a fact that this guy wont do a good job? Lets give him a chance!"
I guess that one guy would be you. Personally, I would be in favor of doing nothing and possibly even waiting a year for a better employee to come along, rather than hurt my payroll with such a long commitment to such an unproven entity, but thats just me. I work in the normal business world where a completely different set of rules apply.

This is such a bad analogy. How about your secretary quits. You have no one answering the phone. You hear about someone who had minor problems in the past but recently has become a very good employee, do you hire her at the going rate (and your business is running smoothly again)or say" gee you want too much $ "and then run your business into the ground because no one is taking care of business up front? Fish you mentioned giving up a 1st rnd pick for mj-crazy, crazy. I'm in the belief 1st rnd picks are gold and you just don't trade them unless you have to. You never know who falls and you can get esp. with IT's eye for talent. I think we're going to look back and Lee will be a real find at #30. I also think that JJ is going to fill a big need for this team even if he only plays 20 mins per. He is huge. He gives this team size which we NEED. MJ would do nothing for this team and who knows even if LB likes him as a player.

ok forget the analogy

Bonn, RV... your going to tell me based on his history that putting $30mm and 5 years into JJ is a good investment?

Telling me crap like "it might work out" is so lame, I'm sorry. I hope it does, I really do. Just like I hoped Vin Baker would work out, but if signed him for 5 years I would "lashing out" just the same. Know why? The deal sucks, and everyone with an opinion thats a professional says the same thing. Hell, most of the people on the board agree we grossly overpaid. Nobody is saying he cant or wont help us. Hell I have said he will, it doesnt change the fact that its a bad deal, a bad risk and based on history and NOT on koolaid its got a bigger chance of failing than succeeding

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by BigRedDog:

This is such a bad analogy. How about your secretary quits. You have no one answering the phone. You hear about someone who had minor problems in the past but recently has become a very good employee, do you hire her at the going rate (and your business is running smoothly again)or say" gee you want too much $ "and then run your business into the ground because no one is taking care of business up front? Fish you mentioned giving up a 1st rnd pick for mj-crazy, crazy. I'm in the belief 1st rnd picks are gold and you just don't trade them unless you have to. You never know who falls and you can get esp. with IT's eye for talent. I think we're going to look back and Lee will be a real find at #30. I also think that JJ is going to fill a big need for this team even if he only plays 20 mins per. He is huge. He gives this team size which we NEED. MJ would do nothing for this team and who knows even if LB likes him as a player.

pretty sure Sweetney, JYD, Mo T, Rose or Frye can answer the phones just fine thanks.

the thing is, Isiah says that he wants to stay competitive. how can this team be taken seriously with those guys holding down the center spot? none of them can match up against a true center like James. Yes, he is overpaid, but no its not a bad risk, since he fills a need that none of our other players were going to bring. All this talk about getting under the cap anytime soon is a joke, yea dump marbs and in 2 yrs you still couldnt even sign a max player, so whats the point. We let timmy and penny slide, and it becomes a gradual thing. in 2 yrs, i think you can look at our team and say, yes we can be under the cap with this or that move, but not now, layden put us too far over.

thats where your 100% wrong. The only guy you would have to move is Malik Rose. IF you can do that then in a year and a half you have a choice: stay with what you got or move Marbury for expiring deals and open up close to $20mm in cap space. We could be looking at a roster of Q, Crawford, Nate, Frye, Sweetney, Ariza and David Lee. Keep Marbury if you like think its worth it, or dump him for expiring deals and have $20mm in cap space to work with.

Know your facts... in 2 years thats where we could have been. The Lakers are planning for it, but thats the difference between us and them isnt.. that and the rings.