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Bonn1997
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8/10/2005  12:31 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Bonn.. is the average player giving his team more or less than 5 points and 3 rebounds, and would most teams offer that average player a 5 year contract. Stop pretending he isnt horribly overpaid
Per 15 min, the avg player probably is putting up those numbers, yes (if not worse). You're also good at ignoring JJ's career playoff #s, Fish.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 08/10/2005 12:32:11]
AUTOADVERT
fishmike
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8/10/2005  12:32 PM
Posted by Knight:

If we only get 38 wins next year **** will hit the fan!
then you better hope the rookies play great, Sweets and JJ arent fat and Q is the impact player Bonn thinks he is and doesnt shoot < 40% for his FOURTH year in a row. Avoid those things and you wont have to duck if your near a fan.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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8/10/2005  12:34 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by Knight:

If we only get 38 wins next year **** will hit the fan!
then you better hope the rookies play great, Sweets and JJ arent fat and Q is the impact player Bonn thinks he is and doesnt shoot < 40% for his FOURTH year in a row. Avoid those things and you wont have to duck if your near a fan.
Let's get one thing straight: I think Q is about an AVERAGE starting SF, but that's a HUGE improvement from having the worst starting SF in the NBA last season. He'd also be about an average starting SG. It would be a nice improvement if he takes minutes away from both Crawford and TT (or if those players improve from last year). But I don't think Q is a huge impact player; I just think he's a huge improvement from what we got last year at the 2 and 3.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 08/10/2005 12:34:33]
fishmike
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8/10/2005  12:36 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by fishmike:

Bonn.. is the average player giving his team more or less than 5 points and 3 rebounds, and would most teams offer that average player a 5 year contract. Stop pretending he isnt horribly overpaid
Per 15 min, the avg player probably is putting up those numbers, yes (if not worse). You're also good at ignoring JJ's career playoff #s, Fish.
Does the average player only play 15 minutes because he averages 3.5 PFs in that time?

Your right though.. forget about the 5 points 3 rebounds in 268 career games. I'm 100% we are going to only see the 9 points and 5 rebound type production he put up in his 17 career playoff games. 100% sure. After all ISiah does his homework and he wants to win now.

My bad... I'm done with my points. They cant stand up to the barrage of logic I've been assaulted with.

[Edited by - fishmike on 08/10/2005 12:37:18]
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Knight
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8/10/2005  12:37 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by Knight:

If we only get 38 wins next year **** will hit the fan!
then you better hope the rookies play great, Sweets and JJ arent fat and Q is the impact player Bonn thinks he is and doesnt shoot < 40% for his FOURTH year in a row. Avoid those things and you wont have to duck if your near a fan.

Not worried at all. Barring injury there is no way we finish below .500, not happening.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
nyballer
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8/10/2005  12:38 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by fishmike:

Bonn.. is the average player giving his team more or less than 5 points and 3 rebounds, and would most teams offer that average player a 5 year contract. Stop pretending he isnt horribly overpaid
Per 15 min, the avg player probably is putting up those numbers, yes (if not worse). You're also good at ignoring JJ's career playoff #s, Fish.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 08/10/2005 12:32:11]
The problem is, the per 15 minutes stat doesn't come about because he doesn't get the playing time he deserves...it's because he's constantly in foul trouble. so we can't say that larry brown will play him 30 minutes and hell turn into a 10/6 guy. you will basically get 15 minutes from him and you will get 5/3 from him per game...and a guy putting up 5 points 3 rebounds per game is below average in my opinion.
"easy like sunday morning..." - walt clyde
Bonn1997
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8/10/2005  12:38 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by fishmike:

Bonn.. is the average player giving his team more or less than 5 points and 3 rebounds, and would most teams offer that average player a 5 year contract. Stop pretending he isnt horribly overpaid
Per 15 min, the avg player probably is putting up those numbers, yes (if not worse). You're also good at ignoring JJ's career playoff #s, Fish.
Does the average player only play 15 minutes because he averages 3.5 PFs in that time?

Your right though.. forget about the 5 points 3 rebounds in 268 career games. I'm 100% we are going to only see the 9 points and 5 rebound type production he put up in his 17 career playoff games. 100% sure. After all ISiah does his homework and he wants to win now.

My bad... I'm done with my points. They cant stand up to the barrage of logic I've been assaulted with.

[Edited by - fishmike on 08/10/2005 12:37:18]
My point was you can't ignore his playoff performance. Of course you can't ignore his regular season play. I'm taking both sources of info into account. Your mistake is taking only one into account (his regular season games) when BOTH are useful sources of information.
fishmike
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8/10/2005  12:46 PM
Posted by Knight:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by Knight:

If we only get 38 wins next year **** will hit the fan!
then you better hope the rookies play great, Sweets and JJ arent fat and Q is the impact player Bonn thinks he is and doesnt shoot < 40% for his FOURTH year in a row. Avoid those things and you wont have to duck if your near a fan.

Not worried at all. Barring injury there is no way we finish below .500, not happening.
well injuries are part of the game. Every team goes through them, and so will we. If we lost Marbury for half a year thats one thing, but last year we didnt go through anything any other team didnt deal with
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
franco12
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8/10/2005  12:51 PM
I can't find eisley's deal but shandon anderson was $41m for 6 years.

I see a big difference between 5 years and $29m and $41m and 6 years, especially since JJ is a center and a lot of Cs are nothing more than 7 foot stiffs and Shandon plays a skill position.




[Edited by - franco12 on 08/10/2005 12:51:51]
rvhoss
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8/10/2005  1:20 PM
it's no use...fish woke up today and decided he wanted to bash JJ.

A couple of weeks ago, he said something along the lines of:
He'll provide a couple of good games and give us 14 points and 10 boards, but still average 6/6/2.

Well, like I said before, if he gives us that, we're 500 team easy.

And you are smoking some whacky stuff if you think every other team had the same injuries we had.

We lost our best shooter and arguably one of our best players Healthy for all but 20 games. Our back up SG was lost for time as was our starting SF.

So, to say we went through the same thing every other team went through is absurd.

We had a run of bad luck that coincided with marbs proclaiming he was the best PG in the league.

I'm not worried at all...I'm not even bothered by the waxing and waning of support from most posters. You have to give bobs credit, atleast he's consistent.

I'm sure fish will stop crying and suddenly realize JJ was well worth the market price and return to his kool aid drinking ways.

Why are you not bashing the 76ers have THREE of the top ten worst? or is he only right about JJ and the sixers did a good job actually?

Stop lashing out.
all kool aid all the time.
nyballer
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8/10/2005  1:41 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

it's no use...fish woke up today and decided he wanted to bash JJ.

A couple of weeks ago, he said something along the lines of:
He'll provide a couple of good games and give us 14 points and 10 boards, but still average 6/6/2.

Well, like I said before, if he gives us that, we're 500 team easy.

And you are smoking some whacky stuff if you think every other team had the same injuries we had.

We lost our best shooter and arguably one of our best players Healthy for all but 20 games. Our back up SG was lost for time as was our starting SF.

So, to say we went through the same thing every other team went through is absurd.

We had a run of bad luck that coincided with marbs proclaiming he was the best PG in the league.

I'm not worried at all...I'm not even bothered by the waxing and waning of support from most posters. You have to give bobs credit, atleast he's consistent.

I'm sure fish will stop crying and suddenly realize JJ was well worth the market price and return to his kool aid drinking ways.

Why are you not bashing the 76ers have THREE of the top ten worst? or is he only right about JJ and the sixers did a good job actually?

Stop lashing out.

I actually don’t think the sixers’ signings were that bad. Dalembert may be a bit high but he is young and has the potential to be a young Ratliff/camby type. Green and korver may be slightly overpaid, but its not like they have exorbitant contracts – they are short, and both of those players are young and good producers. They may not have made the smartest decisions but personally I didn’t think the sixers really made any terrible signings.
"easy like sunday morning..." - walt clyde
fishmike
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8/10/2005  1:55 PM
our injuries were a joke. The PAcers lost guys like Jermaine Oneil and Steven Jackson for 20+ games,and Artest for 50+ and still made the playoffs

We dont even have players that talented and we are crying. We simply arent talented enough to overcome injuries, so we have to hope and pray every possible thing goes right. If it doesnt we have our excuses.

Im not bashing JJ. He is what he is. We needed size, its just too bad we overpaid. I hope it doesnt hurt us as it has in the past.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Knight
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8/10/2005  1:59 PM
Posted by fishmike:

our injuries were a joke. The PAcers lost guys like Jermaine Oneil and Steven Jackson for 20+ games,and Artest for 50+ and still made the playoffs

We dont even have players that talented and we are crying. We simply arent talented enough to overcome injuries, so we have to hope and pray every possible thing goes right. If it doesnt we have our excuses.

Im not bashing JJ. He is what he is. We needed size, its just too bad we overpaid. I hope it doesnt hurt us as it has in the past.

They also have one of the best coaches in the game...and now we do too. The Pacers are very deep and that helped them overcome last year, this year we have enough depth to overcome injuries too I think.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
Bonn1997
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8/10/2005  1:59 PM
As I understand it, Fish, you think we over paid in contract length not in average salary. Why can't you consider the possibility that after year 2 if it doesn't work out with JJ, they would buy out his contract? They bought out Shandon's for much more
nyballer
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8/10/2005  2:00 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

As I understand it, Fish, you think we over paid in contract length not in average salary. Why can't you consider the possibility that after year 2 if it doesn't work out with JJ, they would buy out his contract? They bought out Shandon's for much more

that won't help our cap situation, he'll still count against it.
"easy like sunday morning..." - walt clyde
rvhoss
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8/10/2005  2:07 PM
I understand the length issue a little, but that was what his agent wanted.

This $5 mill has NO impact on our cap.

He'd still be the lowest paid knick starter in 2 years.

and I actually think he's going to contribute to wins.

There are only 2 or 3 front courts in the east that can put him in his place, as opposed to the 4 or 5 with kurt playing out of position.

And 7/7/2...actually, that's asking more than I expected.

I'd like for him and frye combined to give us 18/12 from the center position.

It's the market fellas...when JJ was signed, it was lauded as a good move by the press (espn included) now it's the worst of the off season?

Well, I'm down with those two extremely differing views.

I just think you (fish) are using different rules for different teams.

It's awesome to have an MLE, but it shouldn't be used.

It's either $10 mill for Kwame or $5 mill for JJ. $10 mill for Curry, or $5 mill for JJ.

Do you honestly think JJ would have signed for 2 or 3 years?

Would you?
all kool aid all the time.
nyballer
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8/10/2005  2:15 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

Do you honestly think JJ would have signed for 2 or 3 years?

Would you?
Depends on what else was on the table. If i was JJ I would take the MLE for 3 years over a 3 million dollar contract for 5 years, which I personally believe would be what teams would be willing to offer him.
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Nalod
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8/10/2005  2:25 PM

JJ ain't worth his kinda debate.

Bonn1997
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8/10/2005  2:59 PM
This $5 mill has NO impact on our cap.

He'd still be the lowest paid knick starter in 2 years.
exactly (or one of the lowest paid)
Killa4luv
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8/10/2005  3:01 PM
Supposing we did nothing, WHO WOULD START AT CENTER FOR US??

Channing Frye at 40 mpg? He probably can't stay on the floor that long so who would be our center? Frye and Sundov?
Top Ten Worst Free Agent Signings - ESPN.com

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