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Larry Brown overrated
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djsunyc
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8/10/2005  9:32 PM
this may be the most ludicrous thread ever. LB is not overrated. he's an elite coach. end of discussion.
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Killa4luv
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8/10/2005  9:36 PM
Posted by Bobby:
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by rojasmas:

Kobe won titles with Jackson as coach when he was a kid, why couldn't Collins win with Jordan when he was young?
Um, I think Kobe was playing with this guy named uh-SHAQ!!!!

and penny played with the same guy under brian hill....and your point ?
My point is when you compare Jordan and Kobe you cannot leave Shaq out of the equation. Jordan lead his team, Kobe was led by Shaq. Thats my point.
simrud
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8/10/2005  9:44 PM
This the first time ever I asked for this, but can we just lock this?

I mean there is like one person in the world who thinks LB is overrated, and I still think the guy is just trying to get under peoples skin rather then really believing that Brown is in the same leage with Karl and Adelman.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
Bobby
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8/10/2005  9:51 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by Bobby:
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by rojasmas:

Kobe won titles with Jackson as coach when he was a kid, why couldn't Collins win with Jordan when he was young?
Um, I think Kobe was playing with this guy named uh-SHAQ!!!!

and penny played with the same guy under brian hill....and your point ?
My point is when you compare Jordan and Kobe you cannot leave Shaq out of the equation. Jordan lead his team, Kobe was led by Shaq. Thats my point.

sorry but you are missing the real point. all these players were ledin a phil jackson/tex winter system...no doug collins, no brian hill, no kurt rambis, no dell harris....none of these coaches delivered a championship
"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
Bobby
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8/10/2005  10:02 PM
nothing against sloan who is a very good coach but if phil jackson traded place with sloan, malone and stockton would've had 6 rings!
"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
Bobby
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8/10/2005  10:32 PM
when all the chips are on the table and you need a championship.....it has to be phil, riles, or popovich

Phil delivered 9 championships in 15 years = championship every 1.6 years....unconscious!
"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
rojasmas
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8/10/2005  10:42 PM
Read slowly! I think LB is a damn good coach. But he gets mentioned in the same breath as Phil and Riles when he doesn't have the championships or the winning percentage. He is the only one who is grouped with those two. He should not be in that group IMHO, get it? This is what I mean by second tier. Second tier is still great, just not the best.
We could be the Dallas Mavs of the East.
Nalod
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8/10/2005  11:01 PM
Riles is way over rated!

He took over a team that had already won in LA. See Paul Westhead!

He did a very good job in NY, but got totally out coached many a time!

Especially in 1993 and 1994!

Burned out his heat team each year. By playoff time, they were crawling. COnstantly got out coached by Jeff Van Gundy!

As a GM, he overpays for players!

He did a nice Rebuild this time, but I don't have faith this current roster will gel.

I loved him once upon a time, but lets be real, Phils teams included two stars and role players. Yes, Denis Rodman was in his late 30,s and a freak, a role player!

Phil creates environments for the stars to take hold, and the role players to do their jobs. Freaking genious. Most people don't get what he does and how great he is. most people think the talent is there.

Riles Laker teams were similar, but Riles was a control freak about stats. It was a nice run and he did a good job, but its hard to measure cuz they had 3 hall of famers, and 2 near stars. Sometims guys like Connie hawkins, Spencer haywood, and bob Mcadoo would fill in at their twilight at PF! Not bad!

Spencer should be in the hall of fame! He has the cred, but drugs and him being the one who cracked underclassmen and free agency issues led him almost blackballed!
simrud
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8/11/2005  8:32 AM
According to your logic it should be Phil and thats it, Riley being in the 2nd tier as well.

And I will never agree taht Jackson is a good coach until he proves he can win w/out the best player in the league on his team.

If the Lakers are good next year, then I'll agree that he is great.

Considering Riley only won with the Lakers, as apparently winnin only means championships to you, or wate it doesnt when it comes to Brown, winnin is about career winning percentage and thats why Karl is a s good as Brown, or wate, thats wrong, too, its winnin titles again, you are spinnin in circles contradicting yourself.

A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
simrud
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8/11/2005  8:33 AM
the last post is for rojasmas not Nalod btw.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
Marv
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8/11/2005  8:55 AM
Posted by Nalod:

Spencer should be in the hall of fame! He has the cred, but drugs and him being the one who cracked underclassmen and free agency issues led him almost blackballed!

plus he was just so damn cool!
Nalod
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8/11/2005  9:36 AM
spencer came from nowhere and just ripped apart the world in 1968 on the olympics.

there is picture of him dunking with a mad scowl and the USA on his chest! Classic!

Spencer was Dice in his prime, a freak of nature able to do things others could not! He has the HOF points, and has cleaned up his act from what I read recently in Sports Ilustrated.

In NY, he married supermodel (now Mrs. David Bowie) IMAN, had a Jazz radio show, and snorted way too much blow!

I remember being very excited when they paired Mcadoo and haywood for the first time was aginst the Celtics in Boston. Bunch of us drinking beers listening on the radio and just pumped up as they beat them.

This was post Reed/Frazier days and we were sure there would be better days ahead, and the KNICKS were back! Little did we know of Haywoods problems, and he and Mcadoo would not gel!

Doubt me when I hate, but I go way back!

Marv, thanks for the photos! SPence was very cool. There must be a tune in my head for him. Lets go with "A Love Supreme" by Coltrane. This dude was cool, volitile and passionate while undiciplined! Kinda like how the song goes!
fishmike
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8/11/2005  9:57 AM
Posted by rojasmas:

He had some pretty good teams in Indiana and never made it to the Finals there. Larry Bird took that team to the Finals as a coach.
LB's Pacers were always knocked off by the Knicks or Jordan's Bulls. Funny how MJ retires and Ewing gets old the next year they are in the finals. It was more timing than anything else. Would you consider LB a failure in Indy? Has he ever failed anywhere?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Nalod
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8/11/2005  10:38 AM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by rojasmas:

He had some pretty good teams in Indiana and never made it to the Finals there. Larry Bird took that team to the Finals as a coach.
LB's Pacers were always knocked off by the Knicks or Jordan's Bulls. Funny how MJ retires and Ewing gets old the next year they are in the finals. It was more timing than anything else. Would you consider LB a failure in Indy? Has he ever failed anywhere?

Good point, timing is everyting!

could Larrys indy teams been overachieving? On paper they were not always impressive, but on the court they were hell!

Maybe we should look not at some of his success more closely?

Career, he is the only one to win both NCAA and in the Pros! That is a big freaking deal! NO ONE HAS DONE THIS BUT HIM! I think right there we can end the conversation!

Pro coaches there are just two that really stand above all others: Aurbach and Phil Jax!

Then there are about 10 or so on the next level (in no Particular order), the LBs, Dick Motta, Gene Shue, Lenny (in his better days), Chuck Daley, Hubie Brown, KC jones, Riles, Sharman, Red Holzman of course, and cotton Fitzsimmons, and Karl. JVG can make this list if he keeps winning and has longevity. A title, coach of the year award, or trip to finals would help. Jeff did pretty good i the playoffs, beat Riles 3 of four series? One loss was the "fight club" series when ewing got suspended!

Larry is not over rated, but currently over hyped. Anybody wanna guess to why?
nixluva
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8/11/2005  1:15 PM
When Phil jackson can take a team like the LA Clippers in mid season and get them from a losing team to a winning record and the playoffs, then i'll say that he is a better coach than Brown. Brown's NEVER had the best player in the league EVER. In Detroit he didn't have ONE superstar. Hell he didn't even have a real Center. Yet he's beaten Phil with his 2 ultra stars. He would've beaten Duncan too if Sheed wouldn't have had a brain lock. That feakin defensive lapse was inexcusable.

LB is not overhyped. He is what he is. If he goes to a losing team they become winners. If he goes to a winning team they become title contenders.
jaydh
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8/11/2005  1:18 PM
Posted by simrud:

If you say Brown is a second tier coach then there is nothign to talk about with you. You are obviously either just trying to bug people, or have no idea what you are talking about.


no one is saying he is a 2nd tier coach... he just isnt the best like most on here believe.
fishmike
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8/11/2005  1:22 PM
cant say there is any other in the NBA I would rather have. Maybe Pop, and thats only a 50/50.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
jaydh
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8/11/2005  1:25 PM
Posted by nixluva:

When Phil jackson can take a team like the LA Clippers in mid season and get them from a losing team to a winning record and the playoffs, then i'll say that he is a better coach than Brown.

what a weak argument...many other coaches have come in mid season and turned a team around but are NO WAY on the same level as phil. NEXT
Nalod
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8/11/2005  1:32 PM
Maybe Phil won "DISPITE" Kobe and his mega ego!

Im not sure too many coaches could have kept that thing undercontrol enough to win 3 titles with that clown!

Timing is everything, ask Wilt Chamberlin! He had the Celtics, and twice ran into the TEAM oriented Knicks.

Larry did trump the Lakers whom imploded at the right time.

BUt first, give Phil kudos for winning enough with those clowns, having Fisher as your point? Horry? No real power forward? and whats his name married to vanessa williams ex celtic from Carolina?

Yeah, he gets mad props when you look at his roster! Madsen? Washed up Horace? Washed up Harper? Lue?

I guess my point is Phil Jax don't get enough credit. Larry's hype is deserved, and lets hope his best is yet to come!
rojasmas
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8/11/2005  5:32 PM
Don't see how Riley can be grouped in with some of the others. He may be a notch below Phil but has to be a notch above the others. He has 4 titles!
Check this out.
http://www.nba.com/coachfile/pat_riley/?nav=page
We could be the Dallas Mavs of the East.
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Larry Brown overrated
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