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let me put some reality into this
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Allanfan20
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8/3/2005  12:24 AM
Posted by bobs3304:

Allan, don't even bother with these guys. They'll have to find out on their own.


14 and 7 for Frye in his rookie year. That's so hilarious I forgot to laugh......


but then I did.

Well, it's not the stats. I think Frye is capable of putting up some nice scoring numbers and 14 is highly possible. The guy is pretty good and I actually liked him more and more as Summer league went on. It's simply like I said, I just don't know if he has the body to compete on the defensive end. Channing Frye is a very mechanical player on both ends, just like Kurt Thomas. Kurt vs Frye were very very fair comparisons. Frye is a posting up version of KT who can pop up, do a pick and roll and hit the mid range J. But the thing is this, he is still skinny as hell, so he's not gonna be able to compete great, no matter how tough and smart he is, when he's guarding guys in the low post. I don't care if it's a "True center" or friggin' Larry Johnson. He's not at that point yet.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
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Killa4luv
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8/3/2005  12:54 AM
I have debated this with BRIGGS on other occasions, but to say that Frye must put up 14 & 7 is such a tremendous reach to me.

Dwight Howard 12 & 10
Emeka Okafor 15 & 11 as a starter.

Is Frye on the same level as those guys? I don't think so, and because 14 and 7 are so close ot those number, I would say they are unrealistic. The magic were a good team until the mobley trade and Dwight Howard who is gonna be a super dominant player only scored 12 and 10.

How is it reasonable that on a team better than last years Magic, with a less talented player, Frye is 14 & 7. Not only that but 14 & 7 could easily be ROY numbers. you think frye will be roy?

I don't see it now, but if he proves me wring I'd be too happy.
BRIGGS
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8/3/2005  1:08 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:

I have debated this with BRIGGS on other occasions, but to say that Frye must put up 14 & 7 is such a tremendous reach to me.

Dwight Howard 12 & 10
Emeka Okafor 15 & 11 as a starter.

Is Frye on the same level as those guys? I don't think so, and because 14 and 7 are so close ot those number, I would say they are unrealistic. The magic were a good team until the mobley trade and Dwight Howard who is gonna be a super dominant player only scored 12 and 10.

How is it reasonable that on a team better than last years Magic, with a less talented player, Frye is 14 & 7. Not only that but 14 & 7 could easily be ROY numbers. you think frye will be roy?

I don't see it now, but if he proves me wring I'd be too happy.


Dwight Howard is 19 years old, 0 experience in college. Chris Bosh is 21 years old 1 year in college. 14+7 is not an unreasonable number-- what do you want me to say, my goal for channing frye is 8 points 4 rebounds? If thats the case we shouldve taken bynum.
RIP Crushalot😞
gunsnewing
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8/3/2005  1:22 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Killa4luv:

I have debated this with BRIGGS on other occasions, but to say that Frye must put up 14 & 7 is such a tremendous reach to me.

Dwight Howard 12 & 10
Emeka Okafor 15 & 11 as a starter.

Is Frye on the same level as those guys? I don't think so, and because 14 and 7 are so close ot those number, I would say they are unrealistic. The magic were a good team until the mobley trade and Dwight Howard who is gonna be a super dominant player only scored 12 and 10.

How is it reasonable that on a team better than last years Magic, with a less talented player, Frye is 14 & 7. Not only that but 14 & 7 could easily be ROY numbers. you think frye will be roy?

I don't see it now, but if he proves me wring I'd be too happy.


Dwight Howard is 19 years old, 0 experience in college. Chris Bosh is 21 years old 1 year in college. 14+7 is not an unreasonable number-- what do you want me to say, my goal for channing frye is 8 points 4 rebounds? If thats the case we shouldve taken bynum.


briggs you are the man! DONT HOLD BACK YOUR TRUE FEELINGS those who wanted frye will pay!

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 08/03/2005 08:48:01]
nyk4ever
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8/3/2005  1:30 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:

briggs you are the man! DONT HOLD BACK YOUR TRUE FEELINGS those who wanted frye will pray

Wow, is there a little love thing going on here?
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
BRIGGS
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8/3/2005  2:34 AM
1992 Tom Gugliotta pick 6 4 yrs in college NCST 6-10 250 1st year stats 15 points 9.5 rebounds 34 min

1992 Clarance Weatherspoon F 6-8 270 pick 9 4 yrs in college 1st year stats 15.5 pts 7 reb 47% in 32 min
1993 Vin Baker pick 8 1992 4yr college player Hartford CT 6-11 240

yr 1 stats 13.5 pts 7.6 reb 1.4 blocks 50% 30 minutes

1994 Juwan Howard pick 5 3 yrs in college 6-9 230 Mich

yr 1 17 points 8.5 reb 49% 36 min

1994 Brian Grant pick 8 4 yrs in college 6-9 250 13 points 7.5 reb 1.5 blocks 51% in 28 minutes

1995 Kurt Thomas pick 10 4 yrs college 9 points 6 reb 50% in 22 minutes

1996 antoine walker pick 6 2 yrs in college 17.5 9 reb 36 min

1997 danny Fortson 6-9 260 pick 10 3 ys of college 10 points 5 reb in 22 minutes


thats as far as i go as the nba started to change with youngins taking the place of 3-4 yr college guys
RIP Crushalot😞
Nalod
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8/3/2005  7:49 AM
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:
Posted by Nalod:


You Don King? Wpw! By the way, We won 33 games last season. The Messiah has yet to deliver.

Let's see if we get 33 wins with the new coach that Isiah DID deliver. Give Isiah the some of that never-ending slack you always gave Scott LayDown, Nedyal.

While we are improving, the reality is we got a long way, and if the path to rightousness is a true one, it will be filled with some painful growth pains.

I'd believe we all agree with this; it's obvious.

And while your sermonizing and calling out those who speak some truth, some concerns, and speak their minds as unbelivers, some of your rants sound almost (dido) like your a half crazed moonie cult follower ready to strike down the infidel whom might have a differnt take!

Nah, all that it is, is my opinion. You still have that chip on your shoulder from being struck down years ago, it seems. Let it go, Nalod. It'll be okay. I'll still call out those who need to hear the truth, if that makes you feeel any better.

Your propoganda rants are up there with the best of them!

No propaganda necessary- I just tell it like it is. It's a "rant" when it's something you don't agree with? LMAO

Real fans ALWAYS have hope that their team will get better (and not afraid to say it), and smash venom back in the hateful snakes that spew it.
I thought that I got that through to you years ago, but I guess you want to try and impress the lil' newbies or something.

No matter, the things I said needed changing, for the most part, (during the time your former backwards namesake was runing the show) have been made. We're clearly moving up in the world as a team again. We have a REAL Prez/GM who thinks with his own brain, NOT Dolan's. We're getting players more along the lines of having Talent & Fire than the cornballs we had before. This is another truth that someone like you would only see as a rant, I guess.


I root for the NEW YORK KNICKS, and don't give a damn what anyone else thinks. Again. it's what real fans do.

HARDCOREKNICKSFAN

Reverabd Hardcore, YOu speak from the heart!

Perhaps I am not a true believer, perhaps I am hating inside after years of repression, years of Knick depression, years of not confessin, and years of being taught a lesson!

The false prophets of years gone by! The Haywoods, the McAdoos, the Websters, the Ray and Michael Rays, the flirtation with the great Bernard, the Rory's, The Wilkins, the unsupported Ewings, and the great drought of Layden!

Oh, I want to believe, I so do, but my vaneer of hate only masks the pain deep.

Many here are too young and see ONLY the glory days as Ewing, but once upon atime there was real magic, real respect, and real glorification! We was respected and inflicted greatness upon others! This before free agents, and before dilution from expansion. I was just a wee child, but the bench mark set was substantial! The ancient gods of Reed, clyde, monroe, Bradley and Debussure are all well documented!

Don't preach to me Rev. Hardcore with manical rage masked as undying love with wrath upon those that seek the truth thru question. The REAL fan you call out is not by your definition alone, but to seek their own truth and path to rightousness.

The crying, the begging, the whining you hear is the cry of help, the plea for better days ahead, and hope. We are the choosen ones, chosen to suffer the great sacrifice that we may one day lead to glory!

Embrace the knick love, help those whom are weaker than you with not your wrath, but with knowlege and patience. They seek the same thing as you! It is all real! Even Isles, in his own way seeks the path of glory. He is mearly mortal, just a man, a knick man as yourself, but one of many whom have been injury by the famine! They seek not to hate, but just a cure. Same as you!

Amen
Killa4luv
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8/3/2005  7:55 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Killa4luv:

I have debated this with BRIGGS on other occasions, but to say that Frye must put up 14 & 7 is such a tremendous reach to me.

Dwight Howard 12 & 10
Emeka Okafor 15 & 11 as a starter.

Is Frye on the same level as those guys? I don't think so, and because 14 and 7 are so close ot those number, I would say they are unrealistic. The magic were a good team until the mobley trade and Dwight Howard who is gonna be a super dominant player only scored 12 and 10.

How is it reasonable that on a team better than last years Magic, with a less talented player, Frye is 14 & 7. Not only that but 14 & 7 could easily be ROY numbers. you think frye will be roy?

I don't see it now, but if he proves me wring I'd be too happy.


Dwight Howard is 19 years old, 0 experience in college. Chris Bosh is 21 years old 1 year in college. 14+7 is not an unreasonable number-- what do you want me to say, my goal for channing frye is 8 points 4 rebounds? If thats the case we shouldve taken bynum.
YOu are comparing the #8 pick to the #1, 2, and 4 pick. Chris Bosh was compared to KG and Tim Duncan coming out.

Years of college are irrelevant. Some players are just better than others and all three of those guys, Okafor, Howard and Bosh are projected as franchise bigs. Frye is not, and he is not supposed to be as good as them, I don't see how you have him doing better than them in his rookie year on a team that imo projects to be in the playoffs.

Emeka and Bosh were on horrible lottery teams where they were the focus of the offense too, btw. Your statistical expectations are very unrealistic.
Panos
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8/3/2005  8:29 AM

Briggs, I don't have a problem with your saying that one (Sweetney OR Frye) of them will score 14 points a night. I just think its highly unlikely that both of them will. Mainly because there are only so many shots to go around. For both of them to score 14 points each at 50% shooting (an ambitious expectation in its own right) they will have to have 14 shots each per night, 28 combined. I just don't see that happening. More realistic to say that one of them will score around 14 points on any given night, but not both. Remember that Steph, JC, Q and TT (maybe) are going to be taking the majority of the shots. That, AND both these guys are foul prone limiting their time on the floor.

As for the rebounds, sure, I'll buy your numbers. In fact, they better be getting those numbers if their on the floor, or else we're dead.
Pharzeone
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8/3/2005  8:46 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:
I'm pretty sure we are going to sweep Boston and Chicago this year. And the lakers will not win here.

You smoking or somethin' bro? Chicago is on the rise of being a future contender and if they can retain Ty Chandler and they continue to improve from last season (They'll be fine with or w/o Curry) then we'll have no way of stopping them. Their backcourt is better than ours, with Heinrick and Ben Gordon and Duhon, and just having Chandler makes their frontcourt better than ours. We WILL NOT sweep Chicago. We can maybe split with them, but you have nothing to prove that as of yet. Oh by the way, if Kwame turns out to be even at Chris Mihms level, then the Lakers will kill us in everyway, especially under Phil Jackson. And trust me dude, I'm not a Knick pessimist. I just think a lot of people are overrating this team, just like how I said people were overrating us last year, before pre season started.
What are you smokin, Curry had more to do with the Bulls' success last season than any of those rookies. Chandler? If the Bulls fail to get Curry back, then they will take a major step back. Just ask Briggs about a perimeter team with small players.

And tell me how in the world will the Lakers be so much better with Kwame? If Allan Houston was running around talking about how healthy he was you would be talking about 4th seed. You may not be pessimist but you are a Houston lover/believer. And that's worst.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
gunsnewing
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8/3/2005  8:52 AM
Malik Rose will lead the frontline in scoring!
simrud
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8/3/2005  8:52 AM
quote:Originally posted by Nalod:

You Don King? Wpw! By the way, We won 33 games last season. The Messiah has yet to deliver.

Let's see if we get 33 wins with the new coach that Isiah DID deliver. Give Isiah the some of that never-ending slack you always gave Scott LayDown, Nedyal.

While we are improving, the reality is we got a long way, and if the path to rightousness is a true one, it will be filled with some painful growth pains.

I'd believe we all agree with this; it's obvious.

And while your sermonizing and calling out those who speak some truth, some concerns, and speak their minds as unbelivers, some of your rants sound almost (dido) like your a half crazed moonie cult follower ready to strike down the infidel whom might have a differnt take!

Nah, all that it is, is my opinion. You still have that chip on your shoulder from being struck down years ago, it seems. Let it go, Nalod. It'll be okay. I'll still call out those who need to hear the truth, if that makes you feeel any better.

Your propoganda rants are up there with the best of them!

No propaganda necessary- I just tell it like it is. It's a "rant" when it's something you don't agree with? LMAO

Real fans ALWAYS have hope that their team will get better (and not afraid to say it), and smash venom back in the hateful snakes that spew it.
I thought that I got that through to you years ago, but I guess you want to try and impress the lil' newbies or something.

No matter, the things I said needed changing, for the most part, (during the time your former backwards namesake was runing the show) have been made. We're clearly moving up in the world as a team again. We have a REAL Prez/GM who thinks with his own brain, NOT Dolan's. We're getting players more along the lines of having Talent & Fire than the cornballs we had before. This is another truth that someone like you would only see as a rant, I guess.

I root for the NEW YORK KNICKS, and don't give a damn what anyone else thinks. Again. it's what real fans do.

Core I'v never read a post from you relating to basketball and we both been ont he forum for years. Its the same old post every time.

Used to be you just bashed Layden and every player we had, just like everybody else really, me included. We were on the same side of the fence back then.

Yet even then all you used to say is Layden sucks, not why, not a single reason given for it event thouh there were so many.

Nowdays you got another mantra going, same post every time again, we got IT he is god, all he does is holy, no mistakes are ever made, blab balbh.

Once again not a single sentence that relates to basketball. Not even on game threads. It makes me woner if you even watch games, or do you just get a kick out of just being associated with an entity and foaming at your mouth that it is the greatest thign ever.

Then you convininently disapier when the Knicks blow last year, not standing up to your own hype, not a sound from you.

Now you show up and throw around acusations of half the forum not being true Knickf fans, when your phony ass wasnt even here when it hurt the most last year. And don't say you were here during the Layden era, it was easy back then, everybody had low expectaions, it is much harder to deal with 33 wins when you are expeced to go to the 2nd round after winnnin you godawful division.

Maybe I take a dislike to your posts cause you soudn like a preacher, I just can't sand teleevgelists and people who preach in general, all them super religous types who gave Bush the election in bible belt, but one thing that is for sure is that you are yet to have a post that actually deals with normal basketball discussion man.

[Edited by - simrud on 08/03/2005 08:54:55]
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
Marv
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8/3/2005  8:54 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:

Malik Rose will lead the frontline in scoring!

hey i hope he keeps practicing that baseline reverse jam and pulls it on everybody next season. i still can't get over that move - the little gnome skied!
fishmike
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8/3/2005  8:55 AM
so what are you saying.. you dont like HCORES's posts?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
simrud
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8/3/2005  8:59 AM
Not so much the posts but the holier then thou atitude.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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8/3/2005  9:56 AM
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:
Posted by Nalod:


You Don King? Wpw! By the way, We won 33 games last season. The Messiah has yet to deliver.

Let's see if we get 33 wins with the new coach that Isiah DID deliver. Give Isiah the some of that never-ending slack you always gave Scott LayDown, Nedyal.

While we are improving, the reality is we got a long way, and if the path to rightousness is a true one, it will be filled with some painful growth pains.

I'd believe we all agree with this; it's obvious.

And while your sermonizing and calling out those who speak some truth, some concerns, and speak their minds as unbelivers, some of your rants sound almost (dido) like your a half crazed moonie cult follower ready to strike down the infidel whom might have a differnt take!

Nah, all that it is, is my opinion. You still have that chip on your shoulder from being struck down years ago, it seems. Let it go, Nalod. It'll be okay. I'll still call out those who need to hear the truth, if that makes you feeel any better.

Your propoganda rants are up there with the best of them!

No propaganda necessary- I just tell it like it is. It's a "rant" when it's something you don't agree with? LMAO

Real fans ALWAYS have hope that their team will get better (and not afraid to say it), and smash venom back in the hateful snakes that spew it.
I thought that I got that through to you years ago, but I guess you want to try and impress the lil' newbies or something.

No matter, the things I said needed changing, for the most part, (during the time your former backwards namesake was runing the show) have been made. We're clearly moving up in the world as a team again. We have a REAL Prez/GM who thinks with his own brain, NOT Dolan's. We're getting players more along the lines of having Talent & Fire than the cornballs we had before. This is another truth that someone like you would only see as a rant, I guess.


I root for the NEW YORK KNICKS, and don't give a damn what anyone else thinks. Again. it's what real fans do.

HARDCOREKNICKSFAN

Reverabd Hardcore, YOu speak from the heart!

Perhaps I am not a true believer, perhaps I am hating inside after years of repression, years of Knick depression, years of not confessin, and years of being taught a lesson!

The false prophets of years gone by! The Haywoods, the McAdoos, the Websters, the Ray and Michael Rays, the flirtation with the great Bernard, the Rory's, The Wilkins, the unsupported Ewings, and the great drought of Layden!

Oh, I want to believe, I so do, but my vaneer of hate only masks the pain deep.

Many here are too young and see ONLY the glory days as Ewing, but once upon atime there was real magic, real respect, and real glorification! We was respected and inflicted greatness upon others! This before free agents, and before dilution from expansion. I was just a wee child, but the bench mark set was substantial! The ancient gods of Reed, clyde, monroe, Bradley and Debussure are all well documented!

I was in Carter's underwear, just a todler when the Knicks won their last title. I want that past glory back, and with the changes the Knicks are making, it's a visible, tangible possibility wotrth rooting for.

Don't preach to me Rev. Hardcore with manical rage masked as undying love with wrath upon those that seek the truth thru question.

There's no truth or question in being pessimistic. I guess you're intimidated, but that's cool.

The REAL fan you call out is not by your definition alone, but to seek their own truth and path to rightousness.

I never said it was. I always say that's MY opinion regarding what a true fan is, and most sensible folks agree. There's no truth or righteousness in being a naysayer. Anyone ignorant enough to beleieve otherwise shouldn't even post here. I always stood by that, and you've always had an issue with it.

The crying, the begging, the whining you hear is the cry of help, the plea for better days ahead, and hope. We are the choosen ones, chosen to suffer the great sacrifice that we may one day lead to glory!

I know the difference between cries for better days and the plain old doomsday talk to which I am referring. You should too. We've been through this before.

Embrace the knick love, help those whom are weaker than you with not your wrath, but with knowlege and patience.

I do, but at the same time, I get tired of good discussions turning silly because of a few haters.

They seek the same thing as you! It is all real! Even Isles, in his own way seeks the path of glory. He is mearly mortal, just a man, a knick man as yourself, but one of many whom have been injury by the famine! They seek not to hate, but just a cure. Same as you!

The cure is here. The Knicks are getting better. Those who still harp on that "Knicks suck" attitude are the ones who get shot down by those who consider themselves real fans. Once again, you and I have discussed this before.

Amen

Hallelujah!
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
simrud
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8/3/2005  10:06 AM
Core you are missing the point man.

The way you talk is how I and I'm sure every other Knick fan talks to NON-Knick fans.

If you are talking to some Boston or Net fan, then what you are sayin is the right way to go.

But when we are discussing things amongts us Knick fans, why do we need to sugarcoat and pretend that we believe in things that simply arent real?

[Edited by - simrud on 08/03/2005 10:06:35]
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
bobs3304
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8/3/2005  10:36 AM
I love how Knick fans are either ALWAYS unrealistically optimistic or deathly pessimistic...


real healthy fan base there.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
crzymdups
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8/3/2005  10:57 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

1993 Vin Baker pick 8 1992 4yr college player Hartford CT 6-11 240

yr 1 stats 13.5 pts 7.6 reb 1.4 blocks 50% 30 minutes

I think early Vin Baker is a good comparison for right now. Frye scores more from outside, but that's not a horrible comparison. Hopefully, Frye doesn't hit the sauce like Vin did.

Can Frye put up early Baker numbers? I think so. Also, I think he's got a far better head on his shoulders than Vin.
¿ △ ?
Nalod
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8/3/2005  11:05 AM
Posted by simrud:

Core you are missing the point man.

The way you talk is how I and I'm sure every other Knick fan talks to NON-Knick fans.

If you are talking to some Boston or Net fan, then what you are sayin is the right way to go.

But when we are discussing things amongts us Knick fans, why do we need to sugarcoat and pretend that we believe in things that simply arent real?

[Edited by - simrud on 08/03/2005 10:06:35]

I guess the term "preaching to the choir"! might be applicable!

I don't think he got the point of my message. There was satire in it.

I guess there are now different levels of Knick fans. WE have the Left wing "rebuildists". These guys want a rebuild and want Isiah to prove himself first with results before offering total support. Key word is "total"! Might have been real upset with coacing moves prior to Larry, and are result driven. The "Centrists" kinda go with the flow and accept Isiah to a certain point. Seeing the potential as it unfolds, support Isiah thru most but not ready go to the NBA store and load up on JJ jerseys. Then the Right wing. This group loves Isiah and loves the cocoon like love that Isiah brings. Cares less about wins and losses than the potential of potential of potential. Off season is more important than the games themseves. Loves trades, hates euros, and is very forgiving even when we lose. Gets excited about deals not even thought about! On the further right, are the splinter group fanatics who see all others as infidels! There world is black or white (not racial, just viewpoint) with no gray area. Example: Isiah is not to be ever called out on anymoves regardless of its effect. Uses layden as baseline for covienent beat down and justification even when Isiah does wrong. (its ALWAYS better than it was with LAYDEN!!!!!!) Won't ever see Layden as the creater of the Marbs trade! (old testimate vs. New?. Similar to not seeing some Pagan traits in some Christian holidays! Still sees Santa Claus as real).
THey believe when they die they will have 70 virgins and eternal season tickets! THe rest of us will go to net games in brooklyn!
let me put some reality into this

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