Posted by tkf:

I am just wondering, I mean I never saw this much hate for a NY player, really, I think Eisley and ward got more love than marbury. what confuses me is that people discredit marbury as being a elite player becuase he has not won a playoff series, not that he hasn't been to the playoffs because he has on several occasions, but because he hasn't won a series. Yet SAR who has never been to the playoffs in a career that has been just as long as marbury signs with the nets and people in here are getting their boxers all in bunch because we didn't or couldn't sign this guy!!! For christ sakes, I just don't understand...

I just didn't even comment on the SAR signing. To me it looks good on paper but SAR has to put up the Charmin Soft stats I have ever seen. He is ten times more gazy than TT. Yet some people really like him.

Posted by tkf:

I am just wondering, I mean I never saw this much hate for a NY player, really, I think Eisley and ward got more love than marbury. what confuses me is that people discredit marbury as being a elite player becuase he has not won a playoff series, not that he hasn't been to the playoffs because he has on several occasions, but because he hasn't won a series. Yet SAR who has never been to the playoffs in a career that has been just as long as marbury signs with the nets and people in here are getting their boxers all in bunch because we didn't or couldn't sign this guy!!! For christ sakes, I just don't understand...

same reason Houston is the source of all our problems. Money matters. The Nets got a 20/8 player for the MLE. Thats a great deal. He's being paid like an average player, yet his career production is far above average.

Marbury was acquired for every trading asset we had at the time, and is being paid superstar money, JUST LIKE ALLAN HOUSTON was. Marbury has been very good, but he has NOT been a superstar so far. A couple years ago Houston had a great season the year McDyess went down and we won 37 games. Yet he was an overpaid scrub. MArbury has a great year and we win 33 game, with probably a much better team, and you cant understand why he gets no love.

Money matters, at least in the perception of fans because they pay to see guys play.

Posted by tkf:

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by tkf:

I am just wondering, I mean I never saw this much hate for a NY player, really, I think Eisley and ward got more love than marbury. what confuses me is that people discredit marbury as being a elite player becuase he has not won a playoff series, not that he hasn't been to the playoffs because he has on several occasions, but because he hasn't won a series. Yet SAR who has never been to the playoffs in a career that has been just as long as marbury signs with the nets and people in here are getting their boxers all in bunch because we didn't or couldn't sign this guy!!! For christ sakes, I just don't understand...

same reason Houston is the source of all our problems. Money matters. The Nets got a 20/8 player for the MLE. Thats a great deal. He's being paid like an average player, yet his career production is far above average.

Marbury was acquired for every trading asset we had at the time, and is being paid superstar money, JUST LIKE ALLAN HOUSTON was. Marbury has been very good, but he has NOT been a superstar so far. A couple years ago Houston had a great season the year McDyess went down and we won 37 games. Yet he was an overpaid scrub. MArbury has a great year and we win 33 game, with probably a much better team, and you cant understand why he gets no love.

Money matters, at least in the perception of fans because they pay to see guys play.

fish marbury is averaging 20/8 for a career, are those not superstar numbers? i thought we were talking about winning and losing as the reason for the marbury hatred, if that is the case than SAR is probably the most overpaid player in the league...

SAR is not the best player on his team and isn't expected to carry them, he is a 4th option. marbury is our best player and embraces that role so he carries a lot greater expectations.

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by tkf:

I am just wondering, I mean I never saw this much hate for a NY player, really, I think Eisley and ward got more love than marbury. what confuses me is that people discredit marbury as being a elite player becuase he has not won a playoff series, not that he hasn't been to the playoffs because he has on several occasions, but because he hasn't won a series. Yet SAR who has never been to the playoffs in a career that has been just as long as marbury signs with the nets and people in here are getting their boxers all in bunch because we didn't or couldn't sign this guy!!! For christ sakes, I just don't understand...

same reason Houston is the source of all our problems. Money matters. The Nets got a 20/8 player for the MLE. Thats a great deal. He's being paid like an average player, yet his career production is far above average.

no way he is a 20-8 guy on the nets, or a good team for that matter. SAR is an average player with some offensive skills. his numbers dropped from ATL to Portland, and i expect they will drop some more with VC, Jefferson, and Kidd; all who like to shoot the ball.

Even if we had Kobe with the coaching staff that we had, we would have still won 33 games. The coaching was horrendous and the supportive cast was horrible. It takes good coaching and a good supporting cast to win games...

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by BasketballJones:

I'm not a hater, but I guess I've been a doubter. I really want to see Marbury grow and succeed though. I hope that the changes Isiah has made will let that happen.

33 wins has that effect on people

EXACTLY.....if
tt showed up like he was supposed too last season = we wouldn't be talking about a bad season. Lenny probably would have still been the coach and keep us from getting Brown...it all happens for a reason....

it's AMAZING but this is marbury's legacy.

all the talent, yet all the criticism. you either love him or hate him. it's very weird. i don't think iverson went through anything like this from philly fans. alot of the media painted him out to be a thug yet he's always been loved in philly. then he won, and now he's almost untouchable.

only thing marbury can do now is win. that's it. he could average 30/15 and it won't change jack until the team wins. IF the knicks win 50 games next season (i know), then the marbury stigma will start to change, and change quite rapidly.

it's a shame tho b/c he's a DAMN good player. i don't think he's a rocket scientist but he takes ALOT of criticism and doesn't really say anything about it.

in his interview with SAS, SAS asked him about the "i'm the best" comment. and steph pretty much said that "hey man, i'm from brooklyn. i am not going to say anybody else out there is better than me." and then when asked about being a leader, he responded "what can i do? is it my fault they can't make layups or hit jumpers?".

what can you do? i don't hate him for saying stuff like that. i think that everybody looks to him to be a leader and b/c he isn't, he gets all this hate. i say screw that. just b/c he's the PG doesn't mean he has to be the leader.

this guy is DAMN GOOD. he has his flaws but he's still DAMN GOOD.

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Bonn1997:

The part that bugs me is that from watching Marbury, it's obvious he's always trying to get his teammates involved first and he takes over only when his teammates are incompetent (which was often last year). Yet people still call him a selfish, "score-first" guard. I don't know any other player who's ever led the league in total assists for a season and been called that before. He's not as good a passer as Jason Kidd or Magic or Isiah, but he's not the selfish player that Chad Fraud and a lot of critics make him out to be either.

Marbury was quoted last year as saying that he looks to score first and then if all else fails, pass. I think he was saying it as some kind of "advice" to another player. I could have sworn it was towards Crawford but he hardly needs advice like that.

Do you think stuff like that makes him look selfish?

OMG, please post link. This is close to being deliberately false.

I remember reading that.

Marbury is a very good player, and I'm sure he'd be great in a 2 on 2 game. But in the NBA, it's 5 on 5. I don't see him getting the other 4 guys involved frequently enough. He gets Crawford involved, I'll give him that.

Marbury's distributing isn't what irks me about him, though. Marbury is a good passer, even if he often dominates the ball a little much. What kills me about Marbury is his defense. He's a strong guy and doesn't put in the effort to muscle guys up or play close man to man defense. Marbury is a subpar defensive player and we lost a lot of games because of our defense in the backcourt last year. With the additions of Q and Nate and Crawford still here, I don't see that improving, so that's the type of thing that makes me worry.

[Edited by - Solace on 07/28/2005 05:43:30]

Why is it that no one criticize TMack for not winning? Let's face it, TMack played with a dominant Center in Yao and still failed....Hello, Hello, Hello

Zzzzz... ridiculous.

You get credit in the NBA based on results. Marbury doesn't have the results, so that's why many people don't give him the credit. If Marbury puts up his normal 20 + 8 and the Knicks win 50 games, everyone will give Marbury credit (just look at Nash in Phoenix).

My big issue with Marbury is that the team we've made doesn't fit the player that we have in Marbury. If we're building around Marbury, IMHO, we have a lot of work to do. That's just an indicator that building around a PG is the toughest position to build around in the NBA, and thus takes the most work. So, I think we're still a ways away.

But, of course, by giving my honest assessment that I don't see Marbury leading us to 83 wins last year (because he's so good that we'd get a bonus win for shutting out the Nets) that I'm a hater. Off the court his personality leaves something to be desired, but who cares? On the court, I want him to win as much as anyone. So far, I've seen why we don't win; some of it's Marbury's fault and much of it is the players surrounding. But, since I truly believe you have to put another star along with Marbury, I don't see us going anywhere for a while.

As for LB, he's a step in the right direction and could help us win some of those close games. That being said, we still have a lot more work to go than just a good coach.