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until the Knicks stop overpaying we will never compete
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roblackman
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7/19/2005  12:00 PM
Boys, take it somewhere else.
And the reply is...a post that makes sense (still waiting)
AUTOADVERT
bobs3304
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7/19/2005  12:05 PM
Posted by roblackman:

Boys, take it somewhere else.


I don't have beef with someone that calls me a "moron" 5 times in one paragraph. I'm just writing this guy off, no hard feelings, and certainly no reason for anyone else to play referee.

I'll handle this the way I always do.

WITH CLASS.

^ holla to that.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
rain
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7/19/2005  12:11 PM
Posted by fishmike:

this thread is pretty funny. So far lets recap what we ave learned:

Boobs and Simrud are lovers

Our advantage over the Nets is they have nobody to guard James

"The team is overstocked at PF, and alot of them are immovable." Now that wasnt a reference to some of them being fat, it was a reference to their contracts, which despite evidence Bonn says dont matter.

Signing centers to bad contracts to rot on the bench and kill your team's flexibility is "how it works in the NBA"

W'eve also learned that the guy that started this thread hasn't given a single alternative to James. It's clear we offered Swift the MLE, it's clear we tried to get Kwame,.. what are the alternatives O guru?

Putting this signing into the Dampier class is a mistake and not accurate.
simrud
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7/19/2005  12:22 PM
Still waiting to here a reasonable argument from you bobs, so far you just keep harpin on how old I'm.

You are really full of class arent you. What a fraud, first you shoot of your lip and then you say "oh my bad man, I was just playin", guess what, that just don't fly.

You are actin like a punk, and thats prolly what you are. Growin up you were prolly one of those fake thug kids who acted all tough and when somebody stepped to them they were "oh I was just messin with you" blah blabh blah.

Pathetic.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
bobs3304
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7/19/2005  12:26 PM
Me as James Lipton:



"WELL PLAYYYED..."







[Edited by - bobs3304 on 07/19/2005 12:26:39]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Knicksfan
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7/19/2005  12:28 PM
What was more important to the Knicks, getting a backup PF or getting a backup C? We all know the answer, so I don't know whats the point of feeling bad that both Swift and Rahim found their teams. Was Rahim coming to NY knowing that he was going to play what, 10-15 minutes? Same goes with Swift. Im sure Isiah tried to get Swift since he would've helped our uptempo game, but it had to happen with him being sure that he could trade one or two PFs to make room for him. That isn't a sure thing so Isiah moved to our real need, a center. He got the best one avaliable at the right price. You can say all about the deal, but this is a far better deal than Foyle's or Dampier's. Was it long? Yeah, but tell me if you are a center, wouldn't you rather sign a 5 year deal than a 3 year deal? And another thing, this move wasn't to win next season. This was a rebuilding move.

Why?

Many people, not only the Knicks, believe that James has some untapped potential. Some believe he could be a solid all-around player, a solid starter. With Centers, you have to take the risk. If his play in the playoffs was any indication, then he could definitely be that. His career says different, therefore the risk. The guy is 29, close to thirty, yeah. But even some players can turn their career arounds at any point. We'll find out if he does, and if it happens it will turn out to be a great signing. If he doesn't, well, you still have a big backup C that can play, more than anything Sundov would've done...
Knicks_Fan
rvhoss
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7/19/2005  12:32 PM
There are a couple of members that really know how to break it down...well said knicksfan, well said.

Now we just have to unload two of these PF's.
all kool aid all the time.
Bonn1997
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7/19/2005  12:39 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Nalod:

Its silly to sign guys like Raheem or swift when we are logjammed at the power forward, and need to get minutes to sweets and others.

this i agree with but my whole point is not about swift or SAR persay, but more about signing a 30 year old or hasbeen (vin) for the MLE instead of a 25 year old or a career 20/8 type player.

like fish said, bang for your buck - something isiah said he would try to fix, and took a HUGE RISK in this case. i hope i'm 100% wrong here but nothing gives me any indication i will be.
DJ, you're aware that most reports indicated that the Baker signing was an implicit part of the Jamal Crawford deal, right? Jamal and Vin had the same agent (Goodwin), who was going to orchestrate the Jamal sign and trade only if Isiah agreed to help out his other client (Vin), according to most articles.

i heard this, and if that's true, that's awful and a pure WASTE of $$$'s and a roster spot.
At the time no one was criticizing the linking of Vin to the Jamal deal. People just thought it was a worthwhile tradeoff (using up a FRACTION of the MLE) to get a young player with Jamal's upside.
toodarkmark
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7/19/2005  12:54 PM
A 7-1 guy who could average 5 pts, 6 rbds and 2 blocks for 5 million a year? I say take it. It hurts to see Stromile pass us up, but he's a southern boy and Houston has far more potential than we do.

We overpaid by a million a year, but 20 minutes a game from a 7-1 guy isn't all that bad. I do wish we had waited until Theo Ratliff was cut iN September, but there's no gurantee of that, or that he would come here.

We got Jerome for the beef and the blocks. And he was a Harlem Globetrotter I think, so maybe he can do some comedy too.
I don't care what people think. People are stupid. - Charles Barkley
Nalod
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7/19/2005  12:58 PM
Ever look at the monies Dale and antonio Davis got the last 5 years? Sick money for those guys!

JJ is small change in this market.

Relative, the better value would be with Swift, SAR, or Marshall, but we would be severely undersized still!

JJ has skills, and if pushed can be a servicable back up for the duration of his contract.

By the way, I am a closet Net fan. Have been for years and years.

I am here, and am first a knick fan, but I like watching Kidds game, Vince is not too shabby himself, and Thorn makes really good deals for the team!

Not paying Kmart 92 mil and paying SAR 38 mil is brilliant!

The rivalry is good for the sport, and good for the knicks! We can look forward to some great playoff series one day! I was hoping Somhow Telfair found his way to the nets last year as it would have made for great drama with Cuz Steph, and the move to Brooklyn would be real home turf battle!

Net fans who enjoy beating on the downridden knicks are obnoxious. Beating a bad team is nothing compared to seeing a great game regardless of whose team wins, but seeing your team conquer the rival is sweet! I remember the Knicks season was made so long as it finished the 1st place Heat! sure I wanted the knicks to win it all, but there were years we all knew better! But to beat Tim-Bug and the then scowling Zoe was all too good!

Net Fans: save your battle for a worthy opponent. We are not there quite yet. Have you day, but ours will be coming!
roblackman
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7/19/2005  1:01 PM
Kidd's knees will crumble trying to guard Nate, that will be fun to watch. Yes, Kidd can post Nate up but that's not their game.
And the reply is...a post that makes sense (still waiting)
TMS
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7/19/2005  1:10 PM
Posted by Knicksfan:

What was more important to the Knicks, getting a backup PF or getting a backup C?

please don't fool yourself into thinking either Swift or Rahim would be backup PF's for this Knicks team...both of them are better than any PF we have on the roster right now, & that's a fact...this is not to say we could have had either one (which is a separate argument), but that part of your argument doesn't hold water.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Knicksfan
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7/19/2005  1:16 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Knicksfan:

What was more important to the Knicks, getting a backup PF or getting a backup C?

please don't fool yourself into thinking either Swift or Rahim would be backup PF's for this Knicks team...both of them are better than any PF we have on the roster right now, & that's a fact...this is not to say we could have had either one (which is a separate argument), but that part of your argument doesn't hold water.

Even if they started, how many minutes would they play? Backup minutes because we have too many PF's already and two things: you have to play the young PFs like Sweetney and Lee to develope them, and you have to play the others at least a little if you want to trade them. What's the point of signing another PF, even starter or backup? While thay could be better than what we have, all of what we have plus a center is better than all of what we have plus another PF. The point is it makes no sense complaining about our glut at PF and then wanting Isiah to use the whole MLE on another one...
Knicks_Fan
TMS
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7/19/2005  1:20 PM
dude, i'm not trying to argue with you or debate this topic...just saying your statement earlier doesn't hold water because both those guys are better than any PF we have...they'd be starting if they were on this team, bet on it.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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7/19/2005  1:42 PM
Oh man, the Nets friggin SUCK. To hell with all that "we're not ready yet" stuff- There's no rivalry because NJ will always be second to NY. Also, alot of fans don't want those chumps in NY - especially BK.

The nets will fall on their goddamn faces this season- mark my words.

...and yes, I do HATE the Nets, in case anyone had to guess.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
djsunyc
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7/19/2005  1:43 PM
Posted by roblackman:

Kidd's knees will crumble trying to guard Nate, that will be fun to watch. Yes, Kidd can post Nate up but that's not their game.

that would be fun to watch. i'd like to see a bunch of pg's league try to keep up with nate.
islesfan
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7/20/2005  12:10 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Nalod:

Its silly to sign guys like Raheem or swift when we are logjammed at the power forward, and need to get minutes to sweets and others.

this i agree with but my whole point is not about swift or SAR persay, but more about signing a 30 year old or hasbeen (vin) for the MLE instead of a 25 year old or a career 20/8 type player.

like fish said, bang for your buck - something isiah said he would try to fix, and took a HUGE RISK in this case. i hope i'm 100% wrong here but nothing gives me any indication i will be.
DJ, you're aware that most reports indicated that the Baker signing was an implicit part of the Jamal Crawford deal, right? Jamal and Vin had the same agent (Goodwin), who was going to orchestrate the Jamal sign and trade only if Isiah agreed to help out his other client (Vin), according to most articles.

i heard this, and if that's true, that's awful and a pure WASTE of $$$'s and a roster spot.
At the time no one was criticizing the linking of Vin to the Jamal deal. People just thought it was a worthwhile tradeoff (using up a FRACTION of the MLE) to get a young player with Jamal's upside.

That is such a load of crap. What kind of excuse is that for using up the MLE on a stiff like Baker instead of a younger player who might actually have a future? Are you admitting that Isiah really is that much of an idiot/sucker? The Knicks were the only team willing to give JC that ridiculous contract and give up expiring deals. To suggest that his agent forced Isiah to also throw in another of his assets, the MLE, in order to get the deal done is beyond laughable.

So which is it, did Isiah make a mistake by signing Baker to the MLE last year or is he a total sucker for giving in to an agent like you suggest? Isiah is already an idiot for giving that contract to a flawed player that you say is better off being a backup.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Solace
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7/20/2005  12:33 PM
Posted by roblackman:
Posted by rvhoss:

the nets were a couple of games better than us last year, we drafted lee, nate and frye and picked up Q rich, they signed Rahim.

And they are head and shoulders better than us...snap out of it.

They don't have anyone to guard James.

You really don't have to do much to guard a guy who puts up 5 and 4. Let's get realistic here. James has little offense, so there's little to guard.

James might have a presence on the defensive end, but don't expect much offensively.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Solace
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7/20/2005  12:38 PM
Posted by diderotn:

Here is something that most fans failed to realize...This is the East men. Centers that played in the West don't fail playing in the East. I know that Shaq is now in the Eastern conference, but James may even make the allstar game if he learns to stay on the court for more than 25 minutes. Magloire and Z made it, James can too.

Really? You'll have to explain Raef LaFrentz, Marc Jackson, etc to use then. What is this silly comment based on?
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Knicksfan
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7/20/2005  1:02 PM
We have a center now! We didn't have an experienced one before signing James. Lets wait and see if the Knicks can do wonders with him. If not, a real backup 7 ft C doesn't hurt.
Knicks_Fan
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until the Knicks stop overpaying we will never compete
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