callmened wrote:What do folks think of jwall? I think hes overated and overpaid

I agree.. solid player.. but way too much hype from the start and never lived up to it.. but he is solid.. nothing special IMO...

tkf wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

callmened wrote:i watched the same rockets vs clippers game as well. Lin is acknowleged and loved by his teammates.

houston has a real problem though...dwight and asik on the court on the same time doesnt work. however they dont have a stretch 4 either. therefore theyre stuck playing beverly, lin and harden at the same time. (or maybe they were just trying to match up with the clips

I agree that Asik - Howard isn't going to work. It's not a bad problem to have but they're going to have to move one of them, and I assume it will be Asik.
I like Dwight and think Morey is very good at his job but I think they should have kept Asik and gone after Millsap.

Yep, Asik played great for them last season- I don't think Dwight is going to be THAT much of an upgrade. I think they'll trade Asik to the hawks for Jeff Teague, then shift Lin for a PF upgrade.

how many rocket games did you watch last year? I watched pretty much all of their games.. Dwight is an upgrade defensively and on the boards... plus dwight catches more passes around the rim and finishes,which was a problem of asik's last year.... he is a clear upgrade..

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

tkf wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

callmened wrote:i watched the same rockets vs clippers game as well. Lin is acknowleged and loved by his teammates.

houston has a real problem though...dwight and asik on the court on the same time doesnt work. however they dont have a stretch 4 either. therefore theyre stuck playing beverly, lin and harden at the same time. (or maybe they were just trying to match up with the clips

I agree that Asik - Howard isn't going to work. It's not a bad problem to have but they're going to have to move one of them, and I assume it will be Asik.
I like Dwight and think Morey is very good at his job but I think they should have kept Asik and gone after Millsap.

Yep, Asik played great for them last season- I don't think Dwight is going to be THAT much of an upgrade. I think they'll trade Asik to the hawks for Jeff Teague, then shift Lin for a PF upgrade.

how many rocket games did you watch last year? I watched pretty much all of their games.. Dwight is an upgrade defensively and on the boards... plus dwight catches more passes around the rim and finishes,which was a problem of asik's last year.... he is a clear upgrade..

He's an upgrade but not worth quadruple the total salary commitment.

but here is one thing we do know Bonn.. a team built around Dwight is a Finals team.. he has proven that, so I think you can justify the salary commitment... asik is on the books this year and next year for a total of 20 mil, they can do a lot of things with him.. dwight with harden and that team, gives them a legit shot to contend, which I didn't think they had with asik... the worth will be determined in the playoffs, especially if the rockets keep advancing..

sidsanders wrote:stephenson with a t-dub, pacers 8-0. of all the times for the heat to start slow the flippin pacers gotta be play well.

It is amazing how a well run team and some luck can do for a franchise. OKC had the same thing the Pacers now had until they got cheap and gave away Harden. Can you imagine Harden on OKC right now?

BRIGGS wrote:Lin was incredible tonight--that was Linsanity!! what a game

He plays better as a scorer than a PG who's primary purpose is setting up his teammates- I remember back in Linsanity he'd start off passing to his teammates, but it was when he started looking to score that he had the big impact.

Clean wrote:

sidsanders wrote:stephenson with a t-dub, pacers 8-0. of all the times for the heat to start slow the flippin pacers gotta be play well.

It is amazing how a well run team and some luck can do for a franchise. OKC had the same thing the Pacers now had until they got cheap and gave away Harden. Can you imagine Harden on OKC right now?

They were not going to be able to give Harden th max money he wanted

RonRon wrote:

tkf wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Lin was incredible tonight--that was Linsanity!! what a game

he was great tonight..

see that hickson dunk on marvin williams.. rofl!!!

Rudy Gay played Melo's role and was actually quite clutch despite all those missed shots
And he is also a much better defender but Harden is just too hard to stop
That was why Lin got more chances

I am not applauding or knocking Gay's horrible miss performance, but I do see qualities of him in comparison to Melo that others thing are far different players
If anything Gay is much more explosive, better defender, better penetration, and he has not peaked with still a high ceiling that he hasn't reached
On the other hand, Melo's will be or already is starting to go downhill (physically), but will demand 1-3x the salary than Gay

In 2015, without overpaying for Melo.,...
I don't mind having both players though but not sure if it would work as Gay would have to focus a lot more on DEF/REBOUNDING but also has the physical abilities to do it and be a lock down defender,
I would worry for the FG% but think we would be much better on the fast break and DEFENSE with Gay

though we still need a #1 because Melo would need to be a Robin and Gay is probably suited as a #3 than a #1 on OFF and he really has unlock his potential on DEF and become a lock down defender and rebounder, Batman would be ideally Kevin Love and I would be happy with a Sessions/Bayless type of PG
Not sure if Sessions will still have it a couple years down the road with Bayless, as speed/quickness is 90% of their game

I do agree that over the years, Gay has been a clutch shot maker... last night 37 shots? LOL. .wow... that is all I can say...

If anything Gay is much more explosive, better defender, better penetration, and he has not peaked with still a high ceiling that he hasn't reached

I agree, but at times Gay seems uninterested in the game... not sure if that is just his demeanor..

In 2015, without overpaying for Melo.,...
I don't mind having both players though but not sure if it would work as Gay would have to focus a lot more on DEF/REBOUNDING but also has the physical abilities to do it and be a lock down defender,
I would worry for the FG% but think we would be much better on the fast break and DEFENSE with Gay

I don't dislike rudy gay, but he and carmelo? ah hell nah.. LOL.. plus carmelo is not taking a dime less than the max.. the dude gave up having a stocked team in NY to get his money.. he wants his money, that is most important..

GAy at around 10-13 mil max may not be bad, but I rather explore other options.. Like Evan Turner..

though we still need a #1 because Melo would need to be a Robin and Gay is probably suited as a #3 than a #1 on OFF and he really has unlock his potential on DEF and become a lock down defender and rebounder, Batman would be ideally Kevin Love and I would be happy with a Sessions/Bayless type of PG
Not sure if Sessions will still have it a couple years down the road with Bayless, as speed/quickness is 90% of their game

I don't know man.. the pacers didn't have a top 5 pick in the last few years and they have one of the best all around players in the game, and probably the best team in the league right now.. Their "stars" came from within.. that is what I want... Tired of recycling other teams flawed stars, and overpaid players.... we keep talking about Batman and Robin, a #1 or #2... can anyone tell me who is batman or robin on the spurs? who is their #1 or #2?

Get me 5 good players who play both ends of the floor, high character guys, with talent of course.. A star player may rise out of that, a great team can come from that... this is what I want.. call me a dreamer.. LOL

gunsnewing wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Lin was incredible tonight--that was Linsanity!! what a game

He plays better as a scorer than a PG who's primary purpose is setting up his teammates- I remember back in Linsanity he'd start off passing to his teammates, but it was when he started looking to score that he had the big impact.

So how do you explain chandler, Novak , Shumpert and Jeffries playing so well with Lin. You can get on him for turnovers but what you said is offbase

It wasn't a criticism of him- go watch those Linsanity games

tkf wrote:

RonRon wrote:TFK, Pacer's spend the time and effort to develop players
We like to overpay for talents that are hitting their 30's

Rookies have trouble developing in NYK, look at Ariza, I don't think he would have ever developed had he stayed a Knick and probably would have been out of the league or looking for vet min contracts, until he was traded to Lakers and played with the right combination of players, talents, coach, and system/philosophy

His strength is his length, versatility on DEF, athleticism, and it complimented Lamar Odom, Pau Gasol at C, Kobe, and whoever was left in the rotation
He played as the weakest player as the 4th/5th option but excelled on it, and created/received mismatches because of the talent on the floor in addition to his physical abilities, especially when he was at his prime

I agree with you, it is going to take a fundamental change with this orgnaization. until then, expect to see more of the same.

this is what confuses me about this fan base.. We hear that carmelo has no help, he needs a running mate, the knicks lack talent... I mean just amazing..

yet on the other hand the same posters will argue up and down with you if you say the knicks suck.. LOL..

they will also say, that shumpert has paul george potential

They love the potential of THJ

so which is it?

what the knicks should be doing is maximzing the potential of guys like shumpert and THJ, see what you have while these guys are on rookie deals... paul george flourished with granger hurt.. i know that wasn't planned, but it allowed guys like him and lance to really develop..

not saying we have that kind of talent, because we don't, but right now the knicks should be developing a plan of gaining assets of all sorts, be it picks, young players developing on your team, etc... lets see what shumpert can do if given more chances, I think the knicks have completely mismanged this kid...

This course that we are on, we have seen it before... it never , ever, ends good..

lol, I was the one who said that I could see Shumps utmost highest potential being like Paul George from last season - which is 17 ppg (.411 FG% and .36 3ptFG%), 7 rebs, 4-5 assists and good D. But I'm not in the Melo apologist camp though.

tkf wrote:

skeng wrote:

tkf wrote:

RonRon wrote:TFK, Pacer's spend the time and effort to develop players
We like to overpay for talents that are hitting their 30's

Rookies have trouble developing in NYK, look at Ariza, I don't think he would have ever developed had he stayed a Knick and probably would have been out of the league or looking for vet min contracts, until he was traded to Lakers and played with the right combination of players, talents, coach, and system/philosophy

His strength is his length, versatility on DEF, athleticism, and it complimented Lamar Odom, Pau Gasol at C, Kobe, and whoever was left in the rotation
He played as the weakest player as the 4th/5th option but excelled on it, and created/received mismatches because of the talent on the floor in addition to his physical abilities, especially when he was at his prime

I agree with you, it is going to take a fundamental change with this orgnaization. until then, expect to see more of the same.

this is what confuses me about this fan base.. We hear that carmelo has no help, he needs a running mate, the knicks lack talent... I mean just amazing..

yet on the other hand the same posters will argue up and down with you if you say the knicks suck.. LOL..

they will also say, that shumpert has paul george potential

They love the potential of THJ

so which is it?

what the knicks should be doing is maximzing the potential of guys like shumpert and THJ, see what you have while these guys are on rookie deals... paul george flourished with granger hurt.. i know that wasn't planned, but it allowed guys like him and lance to really develop..

not saying we have that kind of talent, because we don't, but right now the knicks should be developing a plan of gaining assets of all sorts, be it picks, young players developing on your team, etc... lets see what shumpert can do if given more chances, I think the knicks have completely mismanged this kid...

This course that we are on, we have seen it before... it never , ever, ends good..

lol, I was the one who said that I could see Shumps utmost highest potential being like Paul George from last season - which is 17 ppg (.411 FG% and .36 3ptFG%), 7 rebs, 4-5 assists and good D. But I'm not in the Melo apologist camp though.

THOSE numbers are attainable, but he plays nothing like george, that is the problem.. still that projects out to be a pretty good player..

But the numbers TKF, THE NUMBERS!