martin wrote:

Panos wrote:It may be weird to say this about your $50M all NBA center, but I think Towns is the X factor in these coming playoffs.
If the Knicks are to advance, he needs to be the player he was in the first 20 games of the season: Taking a good amount of 3's and hitting at a high rate, *controlled* drives to the basket without offensive fouls, good passes to teammates, and maybe block a shot every game. I feel Brunson will be Brunson, and he'll bring it. We need Towns to do the same. After that Bridges/OG need to be more present than invisible, but I think the biggest key to wins is Towns. Fingers crossed.

I think this is spot on. It's like a waterfall effect for the team. If KAT is grooving, it'll make everyone else's life much easier.

And not for nothing, but for me, KAT has wildly under performed this year. Not stats wise, he good on the counting stuff.

But he is not a leader, makes too many silly fouls, does not work hard or smart enough on defense, is not spacing properly, sets awful picks, and complains way too much.

All very fixable by 1 person. Look within KAT.

martin wrote:

martin wrote:

Panos wrote:It may be weird to say this about your $50M all NBA center, but I think Towns is the X factor in these coming playoffs.
If the Knicks are to advance, he needs to be the player he was in the first 20 games of the season: Taking a good amount of 3's and hitting at a high rate, *controlled* drives to the basket without offensive fouls, good passes to teammates, and maybe block a shot every game. I feel Brunson will be Brunson, and he'll bring it. We need Towns to do the same. After that Bridges/OG need to be more present than invisible, but I think the biggest key to wins is Towns. Fingers crossed.

I think this is spot on. It's like a waterfall effect for the team. If KAT is grooving, it'll make everyone else's life much easier.

And not for nothing, but for me, KAT has wildly under performed this year. Not stats wise, he good on the counting stuff.

But he is not a leader, makes too many silly fouls, does not work hard or smart enough on defense, is not spacing properly, sets awful picks, and complains way too much.

All very fixable by 1 person. Look within KAT.

100%

martin wrote:

martin wrote:

Panos wrote:It may be weird to say this about your $50M all NBA center, but I think Towns is the X factor in these coming playoffs.
If the Knicks are to advance, he needs to be the player he was in the first 20 games of the season: Taking a good amount of 3's and hitting at a high rate, *controlled* drives to the basket without offensive fouls, good passes to teammates, and maybe block a shot every game. I feel Brunson will be Brunson, and he'll bring it. We need Towns to do the same. After that Bridges/OG need to be more present than invisible, but I think the biggest key to wins is Towns. Fingers crossed.

I think this is spot on. It's like a waterfall effect for the team. If KAT is grooving, it'll make everyone else's life much easier.

And not for nothing, but for me, KAT has wildly under performed this year. Not stats wise, he good on the counting stuff.

But he is not a leader, makes too many silly fouls, does not work hard or smart enough on defense, is not spacing properly, sets awful picks, and complains way too much.

All very fixable by 1 person. Look within KAT.

This is who he is and he's not going to change.

martin wrote:

Uptown wrote:

martin wrote:

martin wrote:

Panos wrote:It may be weird to say this about your $50M all NBA center, but I think Towns is the X factor in these coming playoffs.
If the Knicks are to advance, he needs to be the player he was in the first 20 games of the season: Taking a good amount of 3's and hitting at a high rate, *controlled* drives to the basket without offensive fouls, good passes to teammates, and maybe block a shot every game. I feel Brunson will be Brunson, and he'll bring it. We need Towns to do the same. After that Bridges/OG need to be more present than invisible, but I think the biggest key to wins is Towns. Fingers crossed.

I think this is spot on. It's like a waterfall effect for the team. If KAT is grooving, it'll make everyone else's life much easier.

And not for nothing, but for me, KAT has wildly under performed this year. Not stats wise, he good on the counting stuff.

But he is not a leader, makes too many silly fouls, does not work hard or smart enough on defense, is not spacing properly, sets awful picks, and complains way too much.

All very fixable by 1 person. Look within KAT.

It's all very fixable by more than one person...we have a damn near dozen coaches and and behind the bench. The film room and practice floor is where the coaches earn their keep and teach prefered habits, and correct mistakes. Now. if Towns is still making the same mistakes, that's on the player, but it's not all on him to correct it

In this one specific area especially, I don't know how impactful a coach or coaches can be, there is only so much telling to the player what to do.

Effort.

It's all about consistent effort from a player. I have no problem saying that Brunson is not a good defender and never will be, but he has started to give effort and figure out what he can do in his limited capacity, like taking charges and moving to the defensive positions. It's a decision by a player to commit to effort. Effort to set picks correctly. Effort to not complain. Effort to not reach on the dumbest of fouls.

Perhaps KAT does not have it in him. If not, the FO needs to move him for the next version iHart, DDV and what not.

DLeethal wrote:I feel like Towns was better than I expected. He is a complete monster on offense, second to only Jokic in terms of skilled bigs. But he's an enigma because he kills your defense at the 5 spot especially when paired with Brunson at the 1. So I'm not really sure how we fix that. it seems this team needs the perfect 4/5 to pair with Towns, slide OG and Mikal to the 2-3 and bring Hart off the bench. That could be the championship recipe IMO.

"needs the perfect 4/5 to pair".........

Its a nice concept and one that is very varied. The culture actually delivered with iHart last year. That chemistry was incredible. That was not season one of his tenure, but season two when Mitch went out and we had him, Randle and OG on the front line. Josh closed many games unless Divo was hot. In a nutshell that was the magic of last year. I don't fault the FO for not having the money for him.

At the same time the on paper goodness that is towns and Mikal SHOUlD be better but we besides three new starters (Josh) we have OG playing a new position (sort of) all contributing.
The bench? Deuce leg issues is a piece of it. Shamet was not available and only recently has been reliable. Payne has been very good and Precious is a good 6mm role player. Not much more. Mitch is a big piece of the puzzle and remains to see how effective he can be and healthy.

As for Thibs, his job should be safe for at least another year. His detractors have their lines drawn.
We all have them.

martin wrote:

DLeethal wrote:I feel like Towns was better than I expected. He is a complete monster on offense, second to only Jokic in terms of skilled bigs. But he's an enigma because he kills your defense at the 5 spot especially when paired with Brunson at the 1. So I'm not really sure how we fix that. it seems this team needs the perfect 4/5 to pair with Towns, slide OG and Mikal to the 2-3 and bring Hart off the bench. That could be the championship recipe IMO.

Mitch, but obviously Mitch was not available in any realistic way this year. And when you move Mitch to the starting lineup, then you also need bench C player who is also ready to back him up, and Huk, Precious did not cut it this year. Sims was given a shot and failed spectacularly.

Or, you need a defensive, rim protecting PF who is not a net negative, especially on the offensive side of things (cause that's the same problem as Josh). Unfortunately someone like Precious is just not good enough on O and D to warrant starting. A young PJ Tucker would probably be OK.

We see a lot of stats that suggest McBride would really really help that starting lineup situation - he adds a PoA defender and spacer. I'd suggest that this would initially be AOK but the best teams would adjust to him in the starting lineup the same way they figured out Josh Hart. For about 20+ games at the beginning of this year, Knicks offense was stellar, until the best teams just left him open and dared HIM to beat them, and he failed. It would be the same way with McBride but in the opposite direction, you just guard him on the 3point line and make him beat you off the dribble and at the rim, which he is unusually not good at in a very strange way. Not a good enough finisher at the rim, not a good enough dribble-drive-pass guy, and then you also have a rebounding deficit problem across the board even though you may have a spacing advantage. Brunson McBride Mikal OG KAT is a pretty small lineup, give or take.

I wonder what NY thinks long term of Dadiet and McCullar. Unfortunately they are probably not ready for another year or so to make any type of impact outside of off the bench.

Brunson McBride OG Towns Mitch

martin wrote:

DLeethal wrote:I feel like Towns was better than I expected. He is a complete monster on offense, second to only Jokic in terms of skilled bigs. But he's an enigma because he kills your defense at the 5 spot especially when paired with Brunson at the 1. So I'm not really sure how we fix that. it seems this team needs the perfect 4/5 to pair with Towns, slide OG and Mikal to the 2-3 and bring Hart off the bench. That could be the championship recipe IMO.

Mitch, but obviously Mitch was not available in any realistic way this year. And when you move Mitch to the starting lineup, then you also need bench C player who is also ready to back him up, and Huk, Precious did not cut it this year. Sims was given a shot and failed spectacularly.

Or, you need a defensive, rim protecting PF who is not a net negative, especially on the offensive side of things (cause that's the same problem as Josh). Unfortunately someone like Precious is just not good enough on O and D to warrant starting. A young PJ Tucker would probably be OK.

We see a lot of stats that suggest McBride would really really help that starting lineup situation - he adds a PoA defender and spacer. I'd suggest that this would initially be AOK but the best teams would adjust to him in the starting lineup the same way they figured out Josh Hart. For about 20+ games at the beginning of this year, Knicks offense was stellar, until the best teams just left him open and dared HIM to beat them, and he failed. It would be the same way with McBride but in the opposite direction, you just guard him on the 3point line and make him beat you off the dribble and at the rim, which he is unusually not good at in a very strange way. Not a good enough finisher at the rim, not a good enough dribble-drive-pass guy, and then you also have a rebounding deficit problem across the board even though you may have a spacing advantage. Brunson McBride Mikal OG KAT is a pretty small lineup, give or take.

I wonder what NY thinks long term of Dadiet and McCullar. Unfortunately they are probably not ready for another year or so to make any type of impact outside of off the bench.

Gobert suggests it can work at a very high level with Mitch. I think someone a little smaller, more mobile, would probably be better fit because Towns is huge so you don't necessarily need two twin towers. Prime Serge Ibaka would be nice. Draymond Green type.

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

martin wrote:

DLeethal wrote:I feel like Towns was better than I expected. He is a complete monster on offense, second to only Jokic in terms of skilled bigs. But he's an enigma because he kills your defense at the 5 spot especially when paired with Brunson at the 1. So I'm not really sure how we fix that. it seems this team needs the perfect 4/5 to pair with Towns, slide OG and Mikal to the 2-3 and bring Hart off the bench. That could be the championship recipe IMO.

Mitch, but obviously Mitch was not available in any realistic way this year. And when you move Mitch to the starting lineup, then you also need bench C player who is also ready to back him up, and Huk, Precious did not cut it this year. Sims was given a shot and failed spectacularly.

Or, you need a defensive, rim protecting PF who is not a net negative, especially on the offensive side of things (cause that's the same problem as Josh). Unfortunately someone like Precious is just not good enough on O and D to warrant starting. A young PJ Tucker would probably be OK.

We see a lot of stats that suggest McBride would really really help that starting lineup situation - he adds a PoA defender and spacer. I'd suggest that this would initially be AOK but the best teams would adjust to him in the starting lineup the same way they figured out Josh Hart. For about 20+ games at the beginning of this year, Knicks offense was stellar, until the best teams just left him open and dared HIM to beat them, and he failed. It would be the same way with McBride but in the opposite direction, you just guard him on the 3point line and make him beat you off the dribble and at the rim, which he is unusually not good at in a very strange way. Not a good enough finisher at the rim, not a good enough dribble-drive-pass guy, and then you also have a rebounding deficit problem across the board even though you may have a spacing advantage. Brunson McBride Mikal OG KAT is a pretty small lineup, give or take.

I wonder what NY thinks long term of Dadiet and McCullar. Unfortunately they are probably not ready for another year or so to make any type of impact outside of off the bench.

Gobert suggests it can work at a very high level with Mitch. I think someone a little smaller, more mobile, would probably be better fit because Towns is huge so you don't necessarily need two twin towers. Prime Serge Ibaka would be nice. Draymond Green type.

Yep.

That guy just needs to be able to figure out how to be a net positive and not ultimately defeated by being left alone on offense. Mitch makes up for it with his rim protection, rebounding, and interior toughness - and that in turn also allows guys like OG, Mikal to be better perimeter defenders instead of needing to also help out down low - in a way that Josh is unfortunately not able to against 3 or so teams in the league despite his overall triple double threat glory against 26 other teams. Deuce solves the spacing issues and adds to the PoA but not other stuff.

Mitch or iHart would have worked. Injury and $28M per got the better of the Knicks this year. Huk was a super short term revaluation but he is also in the same spot injury-wise and experience too.

Leon kinda ****ed up with the 2-year iHart deal. Insane considering the overall contract and salary cap management the Knicks have done.

How did Leon mess up iHart? he was making 2mm with Clips. Year one was iHart that good? Had nagging injuries? Foul troubles?
Year two? Not until Mitch went down and OG came did it really pop.
Knicks paid him 8mm over two years. He was a a journyman player, knicks were his 5th team in 4 seasons.
year one, he played 82 games, started 8. Avg'd 19.8min as back up to Mitch. Career stat line. Nice, but not great.
Year two, started 49 games. Again nice jump in stats and the chemistry was really good.
This year, his minutes are up from 25 per to almost 28per bu this assists are now up to 3.8 per game! (His 13 game playoff avg. last year was 3.5 per)
He keeps getting better and his team is winning!

I love the guy and hate that we could not keep him. Thibs and co. did a great job integrating him. FO should be applauded for putting him in this culture and really blossoming! He developed here. He went from earning 2mm, to 8, to 30!!! Thibs gets you paid.

By not considering a 3 year deal initially, with like a team option on that last year.

ramtour420 wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

martin wrote:

DLeethal wrote:I feel like Towns was better than I expected. He is a complete monster on offense, second to only Jokic in terms of skilled bigs. But he's an enigma because he kills your defense at the 5 spot especially when paired with Brunson at the 1. So I'm not really sure how we fix that. it seems this team needs the perfect 4/5 to pair with Towns, slide OG and Mikal to the 2-3 and bring Hart off the bench. That could be the championship recipe IMO.

Mitch, but obviously Mitch was not available in any realistic way this year. And when you move Mitch to the starting lineup, then you also need bench C player who is also ready to back him up, and Huk, Precious did not cut it this year. Sims was given a shot and failed spectacularly.

Or, you need a defensive, rim protecting PF who is not a net negative, especially on the offensive side of things (cause that's the same problem as Josh). Unfortunately someone like Precious is just not good enough on O and D to warrant starting. A young PJ Tucker would probably be OK.

We see a lot of stats that suggest McBride would really really help that starting lineup situation - he adds a PoA defender and spacer. I'd suggest that this would initially be AOK but the best teams would adjust to him in the starting lineup the same way they figured out Josh Hart. For about 20+ games at the beginning of this year, Knicks offense was stellar, until the best teams just left him open and dared HIM to beat them, and he failed. It would be the same way with McBride but in the opposite direction, you just guard him on the 3point line and make him beat you off the dribble and at the rim, which he is unusually not good at in a very strange way. Not a good enough finisher at the rim, not a good enough dribble-drive-pass guy, and then you also have a rebounding deficit problem across the board even though you may have a spacing advantage. Brunson McBride Mikal OG KAT is a pretty small lineup, give or take.

I wonder what NY thinks long term of Dadiet and McCullar. Unfortunately they are probably not ready for another year or so to make any type of impact outside of off the bench.

Gobert suggests it can work at a very high level with Mitch. I think someone a little smaller, more mobile, would probably be better fit because Towns is huge so you don't necessarily need two twin towers. Prime Serge Ibaka would be nice. Draymond Green type.

Yep.

That guy just needs to be able to figure out how to be a net positive and not ultimately defeated by being left alone on offense. Mitch makes up for it with his rim protection, rebounding, and interior toughness - and that in turn also allows guys like OG, Mikal to be better perimeter defenders instead of needing to also help out down low - in a way that Josh is unfortunately not able to against 3 or so teams in the league despite his overall triple double threat glory against 26 other teams. Deuce solves the spacing issues and adds to the PoA but not other stuff.

Mitch or iHart would have worked. Injury and $28M per got the better of the Knicks this year. Huk was a super short term revaluation but he is also in the same spot injury-wise and experience too.

Leon kinda ****ed up with the 2-year iHart deal. Insane considering the overall contract and salary cap management the Knicks have done.

How did Leon mess up iHart? he was making 2mm with Clips. Year one was iHart that good? Had nagging injuries? Foul troubles?
Year two? Not until Mitch went down and OG came did it really pop.
Knicks paid him 8mm over two years. He was a a journyman player, knicks were his 5th team in 4 seasons.
year one, he played 82 games, started 8. Avg'd 19.8min as back up to Mitch. Career stat line. Nice, but not great.
Year two, started 49 games. Again nice jump in stats and the chemistry was really good.
This year, his minutes are up from 25 per to almost 28per bu this assists are now up to 3.8 per game! (His 13 game playoff avg. last year was 3.5 per)
He keeps getting better and his team is winning!

I love the guy and hate that we could not keep him. Thibs and co. did a great job integrating him. FO should be applauded for putting him in this culture and really blossoming! He developed here. He went from earning 2mm, to 8, to 30!!! Thibs gets you paid.

By not considering a 3 year deal initially, with like a team option on that last year.

Could we have gotten his bird rights too? Maybe?

If there was a 3rd year, then there would have been Bird Rights too. So yes.

Maybe iHart didn't want 3 years but Knicks needed to make that. Downside risk is losing him if he blossoms and it happened.

Nalod wrote:Yeah, I see the point but if iHart had the onions and confidence he'd have wanted a player option and he'd have opted out.
The Birdrights would have been great, I agree.
Given his history prior to knicks, I don't think anyone really saw this coming. The New CBA also limited things.
towns and iHart would have been incredible. Perhaps if Mitch was not injured he could have been traded. Not sure that really would have made a difference but he was, iHart bolted and in the context of the moment Randle was not a factor in last yaers playoffs and enabled us to get an allstar/likely all NBA 2nd leading rebounding that we did. It was a really good tilt.

All the accolades for that move enhanced fans expectations. Knicks not finishing top two also diminished our dreams as did winning just 1 more game than last year. Losing a "Gift" that was iHart and yet we really did not fall back maybe should be applauded as a FO that is on it?
Instead there is a sect of miserable fans calling for Thibs head all mad already should Knicks falter.
Its a reasonable response but lets see what happens and how.

I don't get it. If it's a miserable sect that's calling for his head then it would not be logical to call it a " reasonable response". Or am I missing something?