misterearl wrote:tkf - there is a huge difference between being a self-appointed expert and a Knicks fan. First and foremost, above any ego trippin', pontification, politicalization, sermonizing or pouty personal preferences.

It's August. The ball racks are still and the living is easy.

Rather than wallow in the "woe is us" mentality of those who can never be satisfied, The Answer Man looks forward with hope and his bare feet planted firmly in the present.

Not the past, not the future.

I am not wallowing in the"woe is us", but I am not singing kumbaya either... every year tho, it seems like Kumbaya is the theme song, and it hasn't played out that way... and those of us who were not singing that tune were pretty much excoriated..

dk7th - heeded?

Really?

It's an open discussion, not a urination olympics. Everyone has a voice and everyone has the opportunity to be read. You follow who you want to follow. If an opinion makes you smile or frown, it is an individual choice. Whether you think someone should be "heeded" or not is your business.

Until the basketball IQ test scores are published, there are no knowledgable fans.

Heeded?

The Answer Man don't feel the need (except for Sheed) to heed anyone.

One more thing. Go Knicks.

tkf wrote:
what is there to understand? championships are not won in regular season... we tore this team apart, we tore walsh's work apart to put ourselves in position to win a ring right? well I don't think we are any closer.. you guys seem thrilled that we have become the 2004-2009 denver nuggets.. well I am not happy with that at all...

tkf - if you are not happy in August, perhaps a trip to the beach would help. Maybe a slice of pizza with extra pepperoni would brighten your day. The "we" you constantly refer to, that has the franchise on a Denver Nuggets treadmill, is who exactly?

Grunwald? Woodson? Carmelo? All of the above?

If you are blaming Dolan for spray painting Donnie Walsh's masterpiece, perhaps you would be happier supporting another team.

Just a thought.

misterearl wrote:Hilarious

dk7th - heeded?

Really?

It's an open discussion, not a urination olympics. Everyone has a voice and everyone has the opportunity to be read. You follow who you want to follow. If an opinion makes you smile or frown, it is an individual choice. Whether you think someone should be "heeded" or not is your business.

Until the basketball IQ test scores are published, there are no knowledgable fans.

Heeded?

The Answer Man don't feel the need (except for Sheed) to heed anyone.

One more thing. Go Knicks.

your approach basically reduces itself to just a noisy speechifying free-for-all not a dialogue.

"open discussion" pffft

guess that's why you refer to yourself in the third person. not that i didn't understand that already by the way.

dk7th calls bs on the answer man.

how's that for "open discussion?"

nixluva wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:I just can't understand the Debbie Downers at all.

1. We just had our best regular season record since the 1996-97 57-25 team that also lost in the 2nd rd.
2. We haven't had a losing record in 3 straight years and have made the playoffs in 3 straight years.
3. On top of all of this we just brought in more talent which should improve the team over last year's team and we've still got room to improve the roster. We've got the 15th roster spot still open.
4. The team actually got younger and now has an avg age of 28.

Fans have to keep things in perspective. back when we didn't have a winning roster, the arguments were over how many games over or under .500 could the team be. Now it's about whether this team has a chance to get to the ECF's. There is really no legit reason to say that the Knicks definitively can't make it to the ECF's. They do have a chance like every other top team in the East. Big difference.

what is there to understand? championships are not won in regular season... we tore this team apart, we tore walsh's work apart to put ourselves in position to win a ring right? well I don't think we are any closer.. you guys seem thrilled that we have become the 2004-2009 denver nuggets.. well I am not happy with that at all...

This is what I don't understand about guys that think like you on this forum. Exactly what moves would you expect the team to make this summer that would guarantee a Championship?

Gone: Kidd, Cope, Sheed, KT, Novak, Camby, QRich

Added: Bargnani, Udrih, Hardaway, MWP, Tyler, Leslie

There's no way you can look at that list of players and not say that the team got younger and more talented.

We also have to look at the fact that Shump will come in off a full summer of training rather than just trying to get rehabbed. People are poo pooing MWP but this guy is strong and experienced and has the same mentality as KMart. They won't back down from anyone or any challenge. They'll add a toughness to the roster that this team needs. Bargnani and Udrih bring a high skill level and experience to the roster.

So just what is there to be "Down" about? Why should we Knicks fans not be happy about the moves this team made? Sure none of the moves was sexy, but really could we have expected that given the limited resources? I think this was a GREAT summer given how little we had to offer players. AB didn't really cost us anything of value. MWP, Udrih, KMart and Prigs came cheap given what they can bring to the team. THJ, CJ and Tyler are talented young players who might pan out. What is there to complain about this team?

I am not expecting any guarantees, just sustained excellence....

Gone: Kidd, Cope, Sheed, KT, Novak, Camby, QRich

Added: Bargnani, Udrih, Hardaway, MWP, Tyler, Leslie

that is like trading a chocolate Doughnut for a strawberry Doughnut... one isn't better than the other, just a matter of taste....

There's no way you can look at that list of players and not say that the team got younger and more talented.

sure I can, we subtracted vets who played very good ball for part of a year for a bunch of question marks, guys at the end of their careers, or guys trying to find their career again... and a few unproven guys that at their best would struggle to get off the bench of some of the leagues worst teams.. getting young only matters if you get quality as well... you are talking about tyler and leslie and THJ? I mean really? do you think those guys would crack the rotation of a team like the bobcats? the kings? lets not fool ourselves here... I will give THJ the benefit of the doubt tho, as he was a proven college blue chip type talent.....

So just what is there to be "Down" about? Why should we Knicks fans not be happy about the moves this team made? Sure none of the moves was sexy, but really could we have expected that given the limited resources? I think this was a GREAT summer given how little we had to offer players. AB didn't really cost us anything of value. MWP, Udrih, KMart and Prigs came cheap given what they can bring to the team. THJ, CJ and Tyler are talented young players who might pan out. What is there to complain about this team?

I am down because I am projecting the future here... what I see is a team that is nowhere close to championship caliber, that has exhausted all of it's resources in terms of picks and that in a couple of years will be far behind the younger teams in the east building upon their young talent, with that ability to make deals for legitimate players because they have the assets to do so..

so what I want is to find a sucker to take guys like chandler, carmelo, give us picks and young players and then, lets sit and talk about shumpert, develop him, and then asses what we have moving forward with a real plan.. this is what I want, and a step the knicks need to take.. walsh was getting us there, but dolan had to have his toy....

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:I just can't understand the Debbie Downers at all.

1. We just had our best regular season record since the 1996-97 57-25 team that also lost in the 2nd rd.
2. We haven't had a losing record in 3 straight years and have made the playoffs in 3 straight years.
3. On top of all of this we just brought in more talent which should improve the team over last year's team and we've still got room to improve the roster. We've got the 15th roster spot still open.
4. The team actually got younger and now has an avg age of 28.

Fans have to keep things in perspective. back when we didn't have a winning roster, the arguments were over how many games over or under .500 could the team be. Now it's about whether this team has a chance to get to the ECF's. There is really no legit reason to say that the Knicks definitively can't make it to the ECF's. They do have a chance like every other top team in the East. Big difference.

what is there to understand? championships are not won in regular season... we tore this team apart, we tore walsh's work apart to put ourselves in position to win a ring right? well I don't think we are any closer.. you guys seem thrilled that we have become the 2004-2009 denver nuggets.. well I am not happy with that at all...

This is what I don't understand about guys that think like you on this forum. Exactly what moves would you expect the team to make this summer that would guarantee a Championship?

Gone: Kidd, Cope, Sheed, KT, Novak, Camby, QRich

Added: Bargnani, Udrih, Hardaway, MWP, Tyler, Leslie

There's no way you can look at that list of players and not say that the team got younger and more talented.

We also have to look at the fact that Shump will come in off a full summer of training rather than just trying to get rehabbed. People are poo pooing MWP but this guy is strong and experienced and has the same mentality as KMart. They won't back down from anyone or any challenge. They'll add a toughness to the roster that this team needs. Bargnani and Udrih bring a high skill level and experience to the roster.

So just what is there to be "Down" about? Why should we Knicks fans not be happy about the moves this team made? Sure none of the moves was sexy, but really could we have expected that given the limited resources? I think this was a GREAT summer given how little we had to offer players. AB didn't really cost us anything of value. MWP, Udrih, KMart and Prigs came cheap given what they can bring to the team. THJ, CJ and Tyler are talented young players who might pan out. What is there to complain about this team?

I am not expecting any guarantees, just sustained excellence....

Gone: Kidd, Cope, Sheed, KT, Novak, Camby, QRich

Added: Bargnani, Udrih, Hardaway, MWP, Tyler, Leslie

that is like trading a chocolate Doughnut for a strawberry Doughnut... one isn't better than the other, just a matter of taste....

There's no way you can look at that list of players and not say that the team got younger and more talented.

sure I can, we subtracted vets who played very good ball for part of a year for a bunch of question marks, guys at the end of their careers, or guys trying to find their career again... and a few unproven guys that at their best would struggle to get off the bench of some of the leagues worst teams.. getting young only matters if you get quality as well... you are talking about tyler and leslie and THJ? I mean really? do you think those guys would crack the rotation of a team like the bobcats? the kings? lets not fool ourselves here... I will give THJ the benefit of the doubt tho, as he was a proven college blue chip type talent.....

The problem with the players we lost was that they were not able to perform at a high level for an entire season and into the playoffs. Kidd, Sheed, KT and Camby weren't physically capable. While you can't guarantee health, you can at least try to find players who are young enough that just basic BB doesn't prove to be too much for them because they're old. Also NONE of the players we gave up have the proven scoring ability of Bargnani or Udrih. Cope was a very capable scorer, but he really doesn't have much of a track record and NEVER was an NBA teams PRIMARY scoring option. Say what you want about AB, but in his worst year he still scored 13ppg. A healthy AB has been able to score closer to 20ppg with the full attention of NBA defenses. AB doesn't have any chronic injury and he's in his prime.

Beno Udrih is a very capable NBA PG. He's got more left in the tank than Kidd did. Udrih isn't spectacular. He's got solid skills and experience. We need a PG that can run a team and Udrih can do that.

MWP is still a guy that is in great shape and is very physical. He's old but not too old. He's got a ton of experience and the toughness we need.

THJ is a kid, but he's an NBA ready kid. He'll be able to fill in and shoot the open J with confidence. We needed a legit SG who has good overall skills. In limited minutes he'll be able to contribute.

PF/C - Tyson, Bargs, STAT, KMart, Tyler
SF - Melo, Metta, CJ
SG - Iman, JR, THJ
PG - Felton, Udrih, Prigs

This is a better roster than any we had last year.

toad wrote:You're completely ignoring that last season's success was due to a very quick start fueled by vets who have a pedigree--Kidd and Wallace. Without their leadership and focus right out of the gate, we don't have that many wins in the regular season. To think that can be replaced by Bargnani, Udrih, THJ is laughable. I think people who think we're a better team this season is in for a rude awakening. Unless Amar'e's knees miraculously hold up and he gives us moments of brilliance, we're not winning 54 games and I don't see this group getting any further in the playoffs.

Bingo, and i was just about to ask that....

Who is the leader on this team?

Where is the veteran presence gonna come from?

When shyt hits the fans which it will because ALL teams have it, who is that one guy to step up and steer the ship?

Who on this team will inspire the Knicks facing a losing streak and comes out with a broke foot and competes.....twice?

Sheed and Kurt did that.

They gonna miss those old dudes on the sidelines...they helped steer ths ship.

This current team has alot of talent in it...Isiah's Knicks did as well.

Not saying the result will be the same...but wont be better than last year.

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:This is what I don't understand about guys that think like you on this forum. Exactly what moves would you expect the team to make this summer that would guarantee a Championship?

Gone: Kidd, Cope, Sheed, KT, Novak, Camby, QRich

Added: Bargnani, Udrih, Hardaway, MWP, Tyler, Leslie

There's no way you can look at that list of players and not say that the team got younger and more talented.

We also have to look at the fact that Shump will come in off a full summer of training rather than just trying to get rehabbed. People are poo pooing MWP but this guy is strong and experienced and has the same mentality as KMart. They won't back down from anyone or any challenge. They'll add a toughness to the roster that this team needs. Bargnani and Udrih bring a high skill level and experience to the roster.

So just what is there to be "Down" about? Why should we Knicks fans not be happy about the moves this team made? Sure none of the moves was sexy, but really could we have expected that given the limited resources? I think this was a GREAT summer given how little we had to offer players. AB didn't really cost us anything of value. MWP, Udrih, KMart and Prigs came cheap given what they can bring to the team. THJ, CJ and Tyler are talented young players who might pan out. What is there to complain about this team?

Here is what you're not understanding....most posters have seen better.

I go as far back to when Bernard King was battling the vaunted Pistons and the HOF stacked Celtics, in matchups that Knicks squad should never have had a chance in, but the won one of those series and gave a massive battle and effort against the Celtics.

This current Knicks team doesnt have that skill, nor heart like those clubs did.

There isnt a single Knicks player currently who even has the heart of John Starks who literally had to guard the players he knew would completely light his ass up nightly.

Those Knicks teams knew they were overmatched but still put up a fight...I personally see no fight in this club...but rather "entitled" players.

I honestly dont have any issue with the "moves" the team made...they did what they could...but this squad is no contender.

They arent built like one, the core does not play like one, and when pushed....they dont act or respond like one.

For me I'm old school, I celebrate all wins....but I care how you lost.

If a better team beat you, i can live with that.....as long as you put in that NY pride.

They didnt do it last year.

The Knicks lost in game 6 and actually had a lead in that game with 5 minutes to go when Hibbert blocked Melo's dunk with the Knicks up 2. I would say that the Knicks showed a ton of guts and that if Melo was able to make that play they might have won.

You can't base everything on comparing to the best teams of the past. Heck I go back to the last Championship Knicks team and i'm not going to look for us to put a team together like that one!

This team does have toughness tho. Iman, Metta and KMart are tough players. Some of our guys have yet to show you what they're made of. This is however, more of a finesse team than any of the great 90's teams but the league is different now. Despite losing so many players this year this team was able to put up a .659 winning %. That's the best record since the 1996-97 team.

Now if we had the players we have added now in that Pacers series the Knicks would have had a better chance to win IMO. Beno is better than Kidd at this point. Bargs is a better option than anyone we had to help Melo. THJ is better than having bums like White on the bench who couldn't do anything. THJ would give us another option if JR slumped like he did, whereas we couldn't use White at all. Basically we just have more help for Melo than we did late last year.

You believe that the talent will outweigh those things.....and i doubt that.

It is what it is, the playoff games will decide it all.