Uptown wrote:

3G4G wrote:

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

RoyBatty wrote:I'd still go Jordan and Bird any day. As a matter of personal preference. Bird was an ice cold assassin. My 10-year old daughter jumps higher than him. But aside from Jordan and Magic, no other player since the 80s was in the same mental league of Bird as a basketball player.
I think Danny Green joins J.R. Smith and James Harden (OKC version 2012 Finals) for not showing up when it mattered the most.
I give old man Ginobili the pass.
I will watch the evolution of Kawhi Leonard, the anti-Lebron.

I agree with you, Bird, MJ and Magic had "it", Hakeem had "it".... those guys just had it...... lebron is a great player in this era, the flopping, no hand checking, circus the NBA is today.. butas good of a ballplayer and athlete he is now, I still see a lot of flaws, with his game and mentally... I just can't put him in the same league as guys like magic, MJ or bird..

Respectfully disagree. The past knocks on Lebron no longer applies. He's proven to be clutch (30+ pts per in game 7's) big shot after big shot last night to keep the Spurs from taking the league, he's improved his jumper by leaps and bounds and he's added a post game to the repertoire. Not only that, people never mention how good of a defender he is. He shut down Parker in the last 2 games and coach Spo said in the presser that whenever someone from the Spurs got hot, he put Lebron on them...from Kawhi to Tony to Manu....

If you were listening to Magic last night, he pretty much places Lebron over himself saying he;s the closes to Jordan throne than anyone thats played the game...

thats fine.. magic is playing politics.. had magic been an active player now, I doubt he says that... and I would never take lebron over magic..

Magic Johnson said Melo was MVP of the 2012-2013 season....I think instead of this idiot allowing himself to get lost in the trendy Lebron Is The Greatest Ever talk maybe he should focus more on his $1bil franchise he purchased and why they suck.

Magic Johnson of today is a Tool nothing more....

Once again I walk away from these playoffs recognizing Lebron is a champion again but there were players who did more to etch in my mind their impact in the Playoffs

Hibbert
George
Green
Parker
Leonard

Last year it was Rondo

Lebron has another 2-3yrs then people will look back and say themselves that was a wild ride Lebron took us on but now it's time to find a better one at the Amusement Park.

So to sum it up, Magic is a tool because he doesn't agree with your point of view? Got it. Its well documented around these parts that you dont like Melo, so of course if someone shares a favorable opinion of him, he's a tool.

The list of players that you claim did more than Lebron is a joke and just shows you are not using your brain to give an accurate analysis, instead your are evaluating with emotion. Jeff Green, the guy who lost in the first round had more of an impact than Lebron? Tony Parker went 9-35 combined in games 6 and 7 in pivotal elimination games. Seriously, dude, this sounds like a tool post.

Quick question, with the exception of Green who lost to Melo's team in the 1st round, what does every player on your list have in common? Lebron beat all of them and took their ring and their girl.....

well to be fair, parker beat him first...

I do find that this board is so"what have you done for me lately"... when I was defending lebron weeks ago, the argument was that HE had help and carmelo didn't, which is why lebron won..

now he is the greatest of all time, revolutionized the game, and his team sucked.....

I wonder what the argument will be next time this discussion rolls around in a few months and all of this wears off.. will it be back to lebron having HOF players to help him, or is lebron still the greatest...

stay tuned..

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

3G4G wrote:

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

RoyBatty wrote:I'd still go Jordan and Bird any day. As a matter of personal preference. Bird was an ice cold assassin. My 10-year old daughter jumps higher than him. But aside from Jordan and Magic, no other player since the 80s was in the same mental league of Bird as a basketball player.
I think Danny Green joins J.R. Smith and James Harden (OKC version 2012 Finals) for not showing up when it mattered the most.
I give old man Ginobili the pass.
I will watch the evolution of Kawhi Leonard, the anti-Lebron.

I agree with you, Bird, MJ and Magic had "it", Hakeem had "it".... those guys just had it...... lebron is a great player in this era, the flopping, no hand checking, circus the NBA is today.. butas good of a ballplayer and athlete he is now, I still see a lot of flaws, with his game and mentally... I just can't put him in the same league as guys like magic, MJ or bird..

Respectfully disagree. The past knocks on Lebron no longer applies. He's proven to be clutch (30+ pts per in game 7's) big shot after big shot last night to keep the Spurs from taking the league, he's improved his jumper by leaps and bounds and he's added a post game to the repertoire. Not only that, people never mention how good of a defender he is. He shut down Parker in the last 2 games and coach Spo said in the presser that whenever someone from the Spurs got hot, he put Lebron on them...from Kawhi to Tony to Manu....

If you were listening to Magic last night, he pretty much places Lebron over himself saying he;s the closes to Jordan throne than anyone thats played the game...

thats fine.. magic is playing politics.. had magic been an active player now, I doubt he says that... and I would never take lebron over magic..

Magic Johnson said Melo was MVP of the 2012-2013 season....I think instead of this idiot allowing himself to get lost in the trendy Lebron Is The Greatest Ever talk maybe he should focus more on his $1bil franchise he purchased and why they suck.

Magic Johnson of today is a Tool nothing more....

Once again I walk away from these playoffs recognizing Lebron is a champion again but there were players who did more to etch in my mind their impact in the Playoffs

Hibbert
George
Green
Parker
Leonard

Last year it was Rondo

Lebron has another 2-3yrs then people will look back and say themselves that was a wild ride Lebron took us on but now it's time to find a better one at the Amusement Park.

So to sum it up, Magic is a tool because he doesn't agree with your point of view? Got it. Its well documented around these parts that you dont like Melo, so of course if someone shares a favorable opinion of him, he's a tool.

The list of players that you claim did more than Lebron is a joke and just shows you are not using your brain to give an accurate analysis, instead your are evaluating with emotion. Jeff Green, the guy who lost in the first round had more of an impact than Lebron? Tony Parker went 9-35 combined in games 6 and 7 in pivotal elimination games. Seriously, dude, this sounds like a tool post.

Quick question, with the exception of Green who lost to Melo's team in the 1st round, what does every player on your list have in common? Lebron beat all of them and took their ring and their girl.....

well to be fair, parker beat him first...

I do find that this board is so"what have you done for me lately"... when I was defending lebron weeks ago, the argument was that HE had help and carmelo didn't, which is why lebron won..

now he is the greatest of all time, revolutionized the game, and his team sucked.....

I wonder what the argument will be next time this discussion rolls around in a few months and all of this wears off.. will it be back to lebron having HOF players to help him, or is lebron still the greatest...

stay tuned..

All of the above could be true..LeBron is on his way to being an all time great and he had help getting there...Championships are rarely about the individual as it is about the team...MJ wasn't doing it without Pippen, Rodman, etc...

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

Nalod wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:walton was a finals mvp and was the main guy to lead them to a title. he was a regular-season mvp. two-time all-nba first team.

he was a better player than ewing. ewing had the longer career and accrued more points but walton had the better career.

thought experiment: who do you draft of the two?

Walton was not better than Ewing..Ewing was better offensively and defensively..Walton was a better passer..Walton had a much better team around him..Walton had two good years as a pro...Im not sure if you consider Walton a franchise type player...

Ewing had a "better career" no doubt. At the peak of their powers Walton was a better player. His block shots, rebounding and shooting on top of passing made him among the best of all time but it was a tiny sample of work due to his inability to stay on the court. With that I put him in the same arena as others in that gray area "top 50" type player.

Youtube ooows and Ahhhs make the legend of players distorted vs. a current player who still has maybe 7 good years left in his prime. Lebron can win an MVP in a championship series without scoring a point by locking down an opponent at any position, rebounding, assists and block shots. There are few players in the history of the game that can do that.

Larry was a great passer because he was opened the floor up with his long ranger shooting.

The game Pistol Pete hung 68 was against the knicks. I have a DVD of the game and saw it on TV live against the New Orleans Jazz. He killed Clyde that nite. If the 3pt line was established he would have had 100!

LOL, I knew it was against the knicks.. didn't want to pour salt in the wound.... He was an amazing talent..

Lebron can win an MVP in a championship series without scoring a point by locking down an opponent at any position, rebounding, assists and block shots. There are few players in the history of the game that can do that.

lafayette lever was another great all around player, I never thought he got enough credit,and would never get a MVP although he was a very good defender, passer, rebounder, etc... look at his stats one season he avg 19/8/8 with almost 3 steals... another year of 20/9/8 with 3 steals.... just amazing.... again lebron is a great player but he is not a game changer like some of the other guys were like pistol pete and magic(bring something new to the game).. I think lebron is rare for this generation of streetball NBA players.... he is doing things that were done before, but what most guys are not doing today....

Pistol Pete was amazing...It was incredible that Fat Lever nearly averaged a triple double and dude was only about 6'3 (didn't hurt that he played for Doug Moe who saw the game similarly to Don Nelson). But I have to disagree with Lebron not being a game changer. Forget game changer, he was a franchise changer. Pistol Pete never sniffed the finals let alone had much success in the playoffs....Lebron carried one of the worse franchises in the league to the finals and posted league bests reg season records....

What 6'8 260lb player in the history of the game can do what Lebron is doing? Lebron is the same size as Karl Malone. Can you imagine Malone snatching a rebound, going coast to coast, weaving through traffic for a finish or consistantly setting up teammates for baskets? Can you imagine Malone playing point forward, play after play? We've never seen a athlete like Lebron before, thats for sure....

I think you are not getting what I am saying... what lebron is doing has been done.. Magic johnson was 6'9 255 and could grab the ball , go coast to coast finish in traffic or throw an amazing pass.. again, been there done that with magic....

what I mean by game changer, Lebron didn't change the game... Magic and Bird did, MJ did, pistol pete did... they brought something new to the game.... It has nothing to do with sniffing the finals, to be a game changer.... Piston pete inspired a generation of players, no one is trying to copy lebron....lebron posses great athleticism and size, skillwise he is not great at anything....

Being able to play all 5 positions on both ends of the court is pretty new. I think Magic occasionally played center but he didn't do the kinds of things you expect from a center (rebound, block shots). Or Magic could play shooting guard but he wouldn't hit perimeter shots like you'd want from an SG. Lebron does everything - from blocking shots to hitting 3s and getting assists - that you'd expect from PGs, Cs, and everything in between. If no one is trying to copy Lebron, it's only because they already know they can't do it.

Good Post. Too many times when people analyze a team or a player on an individual basis, they never mention the defensive side of the ball. Magic may have been able to somewhat play all 5 positions, but he certainly couldn't defend all five positions like Lebron could. Lebron shut down Parker in the last 2 elimination games. Coach Spo said in the presser than when someone got hot, he put Lebron on them. Riley and KC Jones used to hide Magic and Bird on the defensive end of the floor....

It is funny you mention that now. keep that in mind during the next carmelo discussion..

But magic wasn't a bad defender at all.. he may not have been alvin robertson, but he wasn't bad...

Will do...I defend Melo quite a bit on this board but I think I'm fair about it. I've never defended him on the defensive side of the ball.

And your right, Magic was no Alvin Robertson on defense, but he was no Lebron James either....

True, but I am not defending magic defensively either... You mentioned defense...when you and others defend carmelo, it is strictly on his offense and never about defense, so somewhat odd you make that statement.. thats all...... Magic was great in so many other areas, actually dominant, so yea, while he was no lebron on defense, lebron is no magic either as a player....

3G4G wrote:Magic as a rookie came into the league as a Point Guard...played out of position in the Finals as a Center because Kareem was injured and posted....

14-23fg, 42pts, 15reb, 7ast, 3stls, 1blk, 14-14ft Closed Out Game 6...

Moral Of This Short Story......LUCK FEBRON.....THEN END!!!!

lol...

3G4G wrote:

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

3G4G wrote:

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

RoyBatty wrote:I'd still go Jordan and Bird any day. As a matter of personal preference. Bird was an ice cold assassin. My 10-year old daughter jumps higher than him. But aside from Jordan and Magic, no other player since the 80s was in the same mental league of Bird as a basketball player.
I think Danny Green joins J.R. Smith and James Harden (OKC version 2012 Finals) for not showing up when it mattered the most.
I give old man Ginobili the pass.
I will watch the evolution of Kawhi Leonard, the anti-Lebron.

I agree with you, Bird, MJ and Magic had "it", Hakeem had "it".... those guys just had it...... lebron is a great player in this era, the flopping, no hand checking, circus the NBA is today.. butas good of a ballplayer and athlete he is now, I still see a lot of flaws, with his game and mentally... I just can't put him in the same league as guys like magic, MJ or bird..

Respectfully disagree. The past knocks on Lebron no longer applies. He's proven to be clutch (30+ pts per in game 7's) big shot after big shot last night to keep the Spurs from taking the league, he's improved his jumper by leaps and bounds and he's added a post game to the repertoire. Not only that, people never mention how good of a defender he is. He shut down Parker in the last 2 games and coach Spo said in the presser that whenever someone from the Spurs got hot, he put Lebron on them...from Kawhi to Tony to Manu....

If you were listening to Magic last night, he pretty much places Lebron over himself saying he;s the closes to Jordan throne than anyone thats played the game...

thats fine.. magic is playing politics.. had magic been an active player now, I doubt he says that... and I would never take lebron over magic..

Magic Johnson said Melo was MVP of the 2012-2013 season....I think instead of this idiot allowing himself to get lost in the trendy Lebron Is The Greatest Ever talk maybe he should focus more on his $1bil franchise he purchased and why they suck.

Magic Johnson of today is a Tool nothing more....

Once again I walk away from these playoffs recognizing Lebron is a champion again but there were players who did more to etch in my mind their impact in the Playoffs

Hibbert
George
Green
Parker
Leonard

Last year it was Rondo

Lebron has another 2-3yrs then people will look back and say themselves that was a wild ride Lebron took us on but now it's time to find a better one at the Amusement Park.

So to sum it up, Magic is a tool because he doesn't agree with your point of view? Got it. Its well documented around these parts that you dont like Melo, so of course if someone shares a favorable opinion of him, he's a tool.

The list of players that you claim did more than Lebron is a joke and just shows you are not using your brain to give an accurate analysis, instead your are evaluating with emotion. Jeff Green, the guy who lost in the first round had more of an impact than Lebron? Tony Parker went 9-35 combined in games 6 and 7 in pivotal elimination games. Seriously, dude, this sounds like a tool post.

Quick question, with the exception of Green who lost to Melo's team in the 1st round, what does every player on your list have in common? Lebron beat all of them and took their ring and their girl.....

well to be fair, parker beat him first...

I do find that this board is so"what have you done for me lately"... when I was defending lebron weeks ago, the argument was that HE had help and carmelo didn't, which is why lebron won..

now he is the greatest of all time, revolutionized the game, and his team sucked.....

I wonder what the argument will be next time this discussion rolls around in a few months and all of this wears off.. will it be back to lebron having HOF players to help him, or is lebron still the greatest...

stay tuned..

What I find interesting, we were brainwashed into believing that you needed a Big 3 or whatever to win. Well Lebron has won 2 chips with parts of his Big 3 including himself playing very subpar or not playing at all. He got much accomplished without Bosh in his first Finals run as Bosh was injured. Then in his second Finals run he essentially beats the Spurs with a hobbled Wade and a disappearing act in Bosh.

To sum it up.....

Mo Williams/Chalmers
Boobie Gibson/Norris Cole

Sideshow Bob-Big Z/Haslem/Anderson

Anthony Parker/Ray Allen

Wade and Bosh showed up for what like 2gms if that.....which were almost equivalent to having Delonte West/J.J. Hickson. I mean what was the staggering +/- numbers for the Heat with Wade on and off the floor?

You know who Lebron didn't have in Cleveland? Shane Battier and Mike Miller.....and that's essentially what took the Spurs out...ROTFLOL!!!!!!!!!!!

this goes back years for me. I was never a fan of the "BIG 3" Stuff... the knick organization (Dolan) and fans were hooked... and trying to duplicate that set us back for years....

I said I was more impressed with what lebron did in cleveland making the finals than what he did with the heat... people kept saying He needed another "STAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR", even lebron felt that way, as evidence of him leaving for "souF beach" LOL.. but all he needed was time, to reform his game a bit, we can see the growth of his game.... and the right role players who could and would play big in playoff games... Mike miller one year, Battier and Ray allen the next year..... I am sure it was nice having wade and bosh, how necessary? who knows... Paul George isn't a star...neither is danny granger, I think you could have replaced wade with either guy this year and the outcome would have been the same....

3G4G wrote:

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

3G4G wrote:

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

RoyBatty wrote:I'd still go Jordan and Bird any day. As a matter of personal preference. Bird was an ice cold assassin. My 10-year old daughter jumps higher than him. But aside from Jordan and Magic, no other player since the 80s was in the same mental league of Bird as a basketball player.
I think Danny Green joins J.R. Smith and James Harden (OKC version 2012 Finals) for not showing up when it mattered the most.
I give old man Ginobili the pass.
I will watch the evolution of Kawhi Leonard, the anti-Lebron.

I agree with you, Bird, MJ and Magic had "it", Hakeem had "it".... those guys just had it...... lebron is a great player in this era, the flopping, no hand checking, circus the NBA is today.. butas good of a ballplayer and athlete he is now, I still see a lot of flaws, with his game and mentally... I just can't put him in the same league as guys like magic, MJ or bird..

Respectfully disagree. The past knocks on Lebron no longer applies. He's proven to be clutch (30+ pts per in game 7's) big shot after big shot last night to keep the Spurs from taking the league, he's improved his jumper by leaps and bounds and he's added a post game to the repertoire. Not only that, people never mention how good of a defender he is. He shut down Parker in the last 2 games and coach Spo said in the presser that whenever someone from the Spurs got hot, he put Lebron on them...from Kawhi to Tony to Manu....

If you were listening to Magic last night, he pretty much places Lebron over himself saying he;s the closes to Jordan throne than anyone thats played the game...

thats fine.. magic is playing politics.. had magic been an active player now, I doubt he says that... and I would never take lebron over magic..

Magic Johnson said Melo was MVP of the 2012-2013 season....I think instead of this idiot allowing himself to get lost in the trendy Lebron Is The Greatest Ever talk maybe he should focus more on his $1bil franchise he purchased and why they suck.

Magic Johnson of today is a Tool nothing more....

Once again I walk away from these playoffs recognizing Lebron is a champion again but there were players who did more to etch in my mind their impact in the Playoffs

Hibbert
George
Green
Parker
Leonard

Last year it was Rondo

Lebron has another 2-3yrs then people will look back and say themselves that was a wild ride Lebron took us on but now it's time to find a better one at the Amusement Park.

So to sum it up, Magic is a tool because he doesn't agree with your point of view? Got it. Its well documented around these parts that you dont like Melo, so of course if someone shares a favorable opinion of him, he's a tool.

The list of players that you claim did more than Lebron is a joke and just shows you are not using your brain to give an accurate analysis, instead your are evaluating with emotion. Jeff Green, the guy who lost in the first round had more of an impact than Lebron? Tony Parker went 9-35 combined in games 6 and 7 in pivotal elimination games. Seriously, dude, this sounds like a tool post.

Quick question, with the exception of Green who lost to Melo's team in the 1st round, what does every player on your list have in common? Lebron beat all of them and took their ring and their girl.....

well to be fair, parker beat him first...

I do find that this board is so"what have you done for me lately"... when I was defending lebron weeks ago, the argument was that HE had help and carmelo didn't, which is why lebron won..

now he is the greatest of all time, revolutionized the game, and his team sucked.....

I wonder what the argument will be next time this discussion rolls around in a few months and all of this wears off.. will it be back to lebron having HOF players to help him, or is lebron still the greatest...

stay tuned..

What I find interesting, we were brainwashed into believing that you needed a Big 3 or whatever to win. Well Lebron has won 2 chips with parts of his Big 3 including himself playing very subpar or not playing at all. He got much accomplished without Bosh in his first Finals run as Bosh was injured. Then in his second Finals run he essentially beats the Spurs with a hobbled Wade and a disappearing act in Bosh.

To sum it up.....

Mo Williams/Chalmers
Boobie Gibson/Norris Cole

Sideshow Bob-Big Z/Haslem/Andersen

Anthony Parker/Ray Allen

Wade and Bosh showed up for what like 2gms if that.....which were almost equivalent to having Delonte West/J.J. Hickson. I mean what was the staggering +/- numbers for the Heat with Wade on and off the floor?

You know who Lebron didn't have in Cleveland? Shane Battier and Mike Miller.....and that's essentially what took the Spurs out...ROTFLOL!!!!!!!!!!!

I see you gettin' your Plastic Man on. Wade on one leg is 2x better than anyone Lebron played with in Cleveland. When the Heat absolutely needed a W, Wade put up 32, 6 rbs, 6 stls, and 4 asts...Then in game 7, Wade put up 23 and 10. Lebron never had a running mate in Cleveland who could match him in a big game.

I also find it funny that you're comparing Cleveland's 2nd and 3rd best options (Mo Williams and Big Z) to Miami's 4th and 6th or 7th best options....Why did you leave Wade and Bosh out of the comparisons? Only 5 players scored in the championship for the Heat, so that shows you that Lebron always needed at least one other star running mate....

3G4G wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Actually, "one guy and some support" is a pretty good description of this year's title team

BINGO.....If you go from Series 1 Game 1 to Series 4 Game 7

Interesting... so basically wade and bosh are regular-season performers (bosh moreso than wade as a rule) and the playoff performers were in the deeper part of their rotation.

i mean lets face it battier and chalmers had timely good games in the finals. bosh had a couple of impact plays but his role was minimal over 7 games. wade a bit better but still...

3G4G wrote:

dk7th wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Actually, "one guy and some support" is a pretty good description of this year's title team

BINGO.....If you go from Series 1 Game 1 to Series 4 Game 7

Interesting... so basically wade and bosh are regular-season performers (bosh moreso than wade as a rule) and the playoff performers were in the deeper part of their rotation.

i mean lets face it battier and chalmers had timely good games in the finals. bosh had a couple of impact plays but his role was minimal over 7 games. wade a bit better but still...

Some posters here were clowning Wade in the Pacers series but because he put up a 32pt game in an OT Finals Game(that should have never been) then it makes up for all the Big 3 schtick.

Crazy thing is Lebron and the Cavs had cap space the summer of 2012 but nope he couldn't wait, Lebron had to collude 4yrs prior to. There was nothing Cleveland could have done short of getting Wade and Bosh traded to Cleveland.

lol @ Uptown trying to cite what options the players were instead of comparing positions and roles...like I aptly and correctly did team for team. Doesn't matter that Chalmers in his eyes was a 5th option.....there were several gms he played during the playoffs better than the supposed 2nd option in Wade...

Haslem/Chalmers/Battier/Miller had more gms of impact(statistically and play wise) than Wade and Bosh throughout the playoffs and that is fact......

so if the big 3 is nonsense-- and of course i agree-- what is the answer for the knicks... or is it hopeless?