Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

RoyBatty wrote:I'd still go Jordan and Bird any day. As a matter of personal preference. Bird was an ice cold assassin. My 10-year old daughter jumps higher than him. But aside from Jordan and Magic, no other player since the 80s was in the same mental league of Bird as a basketball player.
I think Danny Green joins J.R. Smith and James Harden (OKC version 2012 Finals) for not showing up when it mattered the most.
I give old man Ginobili the pass.
I will watch the evolution of Kawhi Leonard, the anti-Lebron.

I agree with you, Bird, MJ and Magic had "it", Hakeem had "it".... those guys just had it...... lebron is a great player in this era, the flopping, no hand checking, circus the NBA is today.. butas good of a ballplayer and athlete he is now, I still see a lot of flaws, with his game and mentally... I just can't put him in the same league as guys like magic, MJ or bird..

Respectfully disagree. The past knocks on Lebron no longer applies. He's proven to be clutch (30+ pts per in game 7's) big shot after big shot last night to keep the Spurs from taking the league, he's improved his jumper by leaps and bounds and he's added a post game to the repertoire. Not only that, people never mention how good of a defender he is. He shut down Parker in the last 2 games and coach Spo said in the presser that whenever someone from the Spurs got hot, he put Lebron on them...from Kawhi to Tony to Manu....

If you were listening to Magic last night, he pretty much places Lebron over himself saying he;s the closes to Jordan throne than anyone thats played the game...

thats fine.. magic is playing politics.. had magic been an active player now, I doubt he says that... and I would never take lebron over magic..

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:walton was a finals mvp and was the main guy to lead them to a title. he was a regular-season mvp. two-time all-nba first team.

he was a better player than ewing. ewing had the longer career and accrued more points but walton had the better career.

thought experiment: who do you draft of the two?

Walton was not better than Ewing..Ewing was better offensively and defensively..Walton was a better passer..Walton had a much better team around him..Walton had two good years as a pro...Im not sure if you consider Walton a franchise type player...

Ewing had a "better career" no doubt. At the peak of their powers Walton was a better player. His block shots, rebounding and shooting on top of passing made him among the best of all time but it was a tiny sample of work due to his inability to stay on the court. With that I put him in the same arena as others in that gray area "top 50" type player.

Youtube ooows and Ahhhs make the legend of players distorted vs. a current player who still has maybe 7 good years left in his prime. Lebron can win an MVP in a championship series without scoring a point by locking down an opponent at any position, rebounding, assists and block shots. There are few players in the history of the game that can do that.

Larry was a great passer because he was opened the floor up with his long ranger shooting.

The game Pistol Pete hung 68 was against the knicks. I have a DVD of the game and saw it on TV live against the New Orleans Jazz. He killed Clyde that nite. If the 3pt line was established he would have had 100!

tkf wrote:

Nalod wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:walton was a finals mvp and was the main guy to lead them to a title. he was a regular-season mvp. two-time all-nba first team.

he was a better player than ewing. ewing had the longer career and accrued more points but walton had the better career.

thought experiment: who do you draft of the two?

Walton was not better than Ewing..Ewing was better offensively and defensively..Walton was a better passer..Walton had a much better team around him..Walton had two good years as a pro...Im not sure if you consider Walton a franchise type player...

Ewing had a "better career" no doubt. At the peak of their powers Walton was a better player. His block shots, rebounding and shooting on top of passing made him among the best of all time but it was a tiny sample of work due to his inability to stay on the court. With that I put him in the same arena as others in that gray area "top 50" type player.

Youtube ooows and Ahhhs make the legend of players distorted vs. a current player who still has maybe 7 good years left in his prime. Lebron can win an MVP in a championship series without scoring a point by locking down an opponent at any position, rebounding, assists and block shots. There are few players in the history of the game that can do that.

Larry was a great passer because he was opened the floor up with his long ranger shooting.

The game Pistol Pete hung 68 was against the knicks. I have a DVD of the game and saw it on TV live against the New Orleans Jazz. He killed Clyde that nite. If the 3pt line was established he would have had 100!

LOL, I knew it was against the knicks.. didn't want to pour salt in the wound.... He was an amazing talent..

Lebron can win an MVP in a championship series without scoring a point by locking down an opponent at any position, rebounding, assists and block shots. There are few players in the history of the game that can do that.

lafayette lever was another great all around player, I never thought he got enough credit,and would never get a MVP although he was a very good defender, passer, rebounder, etc... look at his stats one season he avg 19/8/8 with almost 3 steals... another year of 20/9/8 with 3 steals.... just amazing.... again lebron is a great player but he is not a game changer like some of the other guys were like pistol pete and magic(bring something new to the game).. I think lebron is rare for this generation of streetball NBA players.... he is doing things that were done before, but what most guys are not doing today....

Pistol Pete was amazing...It was incredible that Fat Lever nearly averaged a triple double and dude was only about 6'3 (didn't hurt that he played for Doug Moe who saw the game similarly to Don Nelson). But I have to disagree with Lebron not being a game changer. Forget game changer, he was a franchise changer. Pistol Pete never sniffed the finals let alone had much success in the playoffs....Lebron carried one of the worse franchises in the league to the finals and posted league bests reg season records....

What 6'8 260lb player in the history of the game can do what Lebron is doing? Lebron is the same size as Karl Malone. Can you imagine Malone snatching a rebound, going coast to coast, weaving through traffic for a finish or consistantly setting up teammates for baskets? Can you imagine Malone playing point forward, play after play? We've never seen a athlete like Lebron before, thats for sure....

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

RoyBatty wrote:I'd still go Jordan and Bird any day. As a matter of personal preference. Bird was an ice cold assassin. My 10-year old daughter jumps higher than him. But aside from Jordan and Magic, no other player since the 80s was in the same mental league of Bird as a basketball player.
I think Danny Green joins J.R. Smith and James Harden (OKC version 2012 Finals) for not showing up when it mattered the most.
I give old man Ginobili the pass.
I will watch the evolution of Kawhi Leonard, the anti-Lebron.

I agree with you, Bird, MJ and Magic had "it", Hakeem had "it".... those guys just had it...... lebron is a great player in this era, the flopping, no hand checking, circus the NBA is today.. butas good of a ballplayer and athlete he is now, I still see a lot of flaws, with his game and mentally... I just can't put him in the same league as guys like magic, MJ or bird..

Respectfully disagree. The past knocks on Lebron no longer applies. He's proven to be clutch (30+ pts per in game 7's) big shot after big shot last night to keep the Spurs from taking the league, he's improved his jumper by leaps and bounds and he's added a post game to the repertoire. Not only that, people never mention how good of a defender he is. He shut down Parker in the last 2 games and coach Spo said in the presser that whenever someone from the Spurs got hot, he put Lebron on them...from Kawhi to Tony to Manu....

If you were listening to Magic last night, he pretty much places Lebron over himself saying he;s the closes to Jordan throne than anyone thats played the game...

thats fine.. magic is playing politics.. had magic been an active player now, I doubt he says that... and I would never take lebron over magic..

Magic Johnson said Melo was MVP of the 2012-2013 season....I think instead of this idiot allowing himself to get lost in the trendy Lebron Is The Greatest Ever talk maybe he should focus more on his $1bil franchise he purchased and why they suck.

Magic Johnson of today is a Tool nothing more....

Once again I walk away from these playoffs recognizing Lebron is a champion again but there were players who did more to etch in my mind their impact in the Playoffs

Hibbert
George
Green
Parker
Leonard

Last year it was Rondo

Lebron has another 2-3yrs then people will look back and say themselves that was a wild ride Lebron took us on but now it's time to find a better one at the Amusement Park.

A source close to the Celtics tells Chris Sheridan of SheridanHoops.com that Rondo droopped an F-bomb on Rivers in the locker room during a team meeting, and Rivers went after Rondo and tried to fight him before the fracas was broken up

3G4G wrote:

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

RoyBatty wrote:I'd still go Jordan and Bird any day. As a matter of personal preference. Bird was an ice cold assassin. My 10-year old daughter jumps higher than him. But aside from Jordan and Magic, no other player since the 80s was in the same mental league of Bird as a basketball player.
I think Danny Green joins J.R. Smith and James Harden (OKC version 2012 Finals) for not showing up when it mattered the most.
I give old man Ginobili the pass.
I will watch the evolution of Kawhi Leonard, the anti-Lebron.

I agree with you, Bird, MJ and Magic had "it", Hakeem had "it".... those guys just had it...... lebron is a great player in this era, the flopping, no hand checking, circus the NBA is today.. butas good of a ballplayer and athlete he is now, I still see a lot of flaws, with his game and mentally... I just can't put him in the same league as guys like magic, MJ or bird..

Respectfully disagree. The past knocks on Lebron no longer applies. He's proven to be clutch (30+ pts per in game 7's) big shot after big shot last night to keep the Spurs from taking the league, he's improved his jumper by leaps and bounds and he's added a post game to the repertoire. Not only that, people never mention how good of a defender he is. He shut down Parker in the last 2 games and coach Spo said in the presser that whenever someone from the Spurs got hot, he put Lebron on them...from Kawhi to Tony to Manu....

If you were listening to Magic last night, he pretty much places Lebron over himself saying he;s the closes to Jordan throne than anyone thats played the game...

thats fine.. magic is playing politics.. had magic been an active player now, I doubt he says that... and I would never take lebron over magic..

Magic Johnson said Melo was MVP of the 2012-2013 season....I think instead of this idiot allowing himself to get lost in the trendy Lebron Is The Greatest Ever talk maybe he should focus more on his $1bil franchise he purchased and why they suck.

Magic Johnson of today is a Tool nothing more....

Once again I walk away from these playoffs recognizing Lebron is a champion again but there were players who did more to etch in my mind their impact in the Playoffs

Hibbert
George
Green
Parker
Leonard

Last year it was Rondo

Lebron has another 2-3yrs then people will look back and say themselves that was a wild ride Lebron took us on but now it's time to find a better one at the Amusement Park.

rofl!! at the pic of magic.. haha..

yea, lebron is a great athlete and player for this generation....but 10 years from now, no kid will be in the playground copying the lebron back up to half court mow em down move to the basket... kids always emulate the bird fadeaway.... the magic no look passes, the pistol pete flair, the MJ dunks and sig moves... these guys changed the game....

Lebron is a great player now, just not someone I think will impact the game down the road as these other guys have....
again he is a two time champion and a great player, I just don't place him as high historically when it comes to other greats.....

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

Nalod wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:walton was a finals mvp and was the main guy to lead them to a title. he was a regular-season mvp. two-time all-nba first team.

he was a better player than ewing. ewing had the longer career and accrued more points but walton had the better career.

thought experiment: who do you draft of the two?

Walton was not better than Ewing..Ewing was better offensively and defensively..Walton was a better passer..Walton had a much better team around him..Walton had two good years as a pro...Im not sure if you consider Walton a franchise type player...

Ewing had a "better career" no doubt. At the peak of their powers Walton was a better player. His block shots, rebounding and shooting on top of passing made him among the best of all time but it was a tiny sample of work due to his inability to stay on the court. With that I put him in the same arena as others in that gray area "top 50" type player.

Youtube ooows and Ahhhs make the legend of players distorted vs. a current player who still has maybe 7 good years left in his prime. Lebron can win an MVP in a championship series without scoring a point by locking down an opponent at any position, rebounding, assists and block shots. There are few players in the history of the game that can do that.

Larry was a great passer because he was opened the floor up with his long ranger shooting.

The game Pistol Pete hung 68 was against the knicks. I have a DVD of the game and saw it on TV live against the New Orleans Jazz. He killed Clyde that nite. If the 3pt line was established he would have had 100!

LOL, I knew it was against the knicks.. didn't want to pour salt in the wound.... He was an amazing talent..

Lebron can win an MVP in a championship series without scoring a point by locking down an opponent at any position, rebounding, assists and block shots. There are few players in the history of the game that can do that.

lafayette lever was another great all around player, I never thought he got enough credit,and would never get a MVP although he was a very good defender, passer, rebounder, etc... look at his stats one season he avg 19/8/8 with almost 3 steals... another year of 20/9/8 with 3 steals.... just amazing.... again lebron is a great player but he is not a game changer like some of the other guys were like pistol pete and magic(bring something new to the game).. I think lebron is rare for this generation of streetball NBA players.... he is doing things that were done before, but what most guys are not doing today....

Pistol Pete was amazing...It was incredible that Fat Lever nearly averaged a triple double and dude was only about 6'3 (didn't hurt that he played for Doug Moe who saw the game similarly to Don Nelson). But I have to disagree with Lebron not being a game changer. Forget game changer, he was a franchise changer. Pistol Pete never sniffed the finals let alone had much success in the playoffs....Lebron carried one of the worse franchises in the league to the finals and posted league bests reg season records....

What 6'8 260lb player in the history of the game can do what Lebron is doing? Lebron is the same size as Karl Malone. Can you imagine Malone snatching a rebound, going coast to coast, weaving through traffic for a finish or consistantly setting up teammates for baskets? Can you imagine Malone playing point forward, play after play? We've never seen a athlete like Lebron before, thats for sure....

I think you are not getting what I am saying... what lebron is doing has been done.. Magic johnson was 6'9 255 and could grab the ball , go coast to coast finish in traffic or throw an amazing pass.. again, been there done that with magic....

what I mean by game changer, Lebron didn't change the game... Magic and Bird did, MJ did, pistol pete did... they brought something new to the game.... It has nothing to do with sniffing the finals, to be a game changer.... Piston pete inspired a generation of players, no one is trying to copy lebron....lebron posses great athleticism and size, skillwise he is not great at anything....

Bonn1997 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

Nalod wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:walton was a finals mvp and was the main guy to lead them to a title. he was a regular-season mvp. two-time all-nba first team.

he was a better player than ewing. ewing had the longer career and accrued more points but walton had the better career.

thought experiment: who do you draft of the two?

Walton was not better than Ewing..Ewing was better offensively and defensively..Walton was a better passer..Walton had a much better team around him..Walton had two good years as a pro...Im not sure if you consider Walton a franchise type player...

Ewing had a "better career" no doubt. At the peak of their powers Walton was a better player. His block shots, rebounding and shooting on top of passing made him among the best of all time but it was a tiny sample of work due to his inability to stay on the court. With that I put him in the same arena as others in that gray area "top 50" type player.

Youtube ooows and Ahhhs make the legend of players distorted vs. a current player who still has maybe 7 good years left in his prime. Lebron can win an MVP in a championship series without scoring a point by locking down an opponent at any position, rebounding, assists and block shots. There are few players in the history of the game that can do that.

Larry was a great passer because he was opened the floor up with his long ranger shooting.

The game Pistol Pete hung 68 was against the knicks. I have a DVD of the game and saw it on TV live against the New Orleans Jazz. He killed Clyde that nite. If the 3pt line was established he would have had 100!

LOL, I knew it was against the knicks.. didn't want to pour salt in the wound.... He was an amazing talent..

Lebron can win an MVP in a championship series without scoring a point by locking down an opponent at any position, rebounding, assists and block shots. There are few players in the history of the game that can do that.

lafayette lever was another great all around player, I never thought he got enough credit,and would never get a MVP although he was a very good defender, passer, rebounder, etc... look at his stats one season he avg 19/8/8 with almost 3 steals... another year of 20/9/8 with 3 steals.... just amazing.... again lebron is a great player but he is not a game changer like some of the other guys were like pistol pete and magic(bring something new to the game).. I think lebron is rare for this generation of streetball NBA players.... he is doing things that were done before, but what most guys are not doing today....

Pistol Pete was amazing...It was incredible that Fat Lever nearly averaged a triple double and dude was only about 6'3 (didn't hurt that he played for Doug Moe who saw the game similarly to Don Nelson). But I have to disagree with Lebron not being a game changer. Forget game changer, he was a franchise changer. Pistol Pete never sniffed the finals let alone had much success in the playoffs....Lebron carried one of the worse franchises in the league to the finals and posted league bests reg season records....

What 6'8 260lb player in the history of the game can do what Lebron is doing? Lebron is the same size as Karl Malone. Can you imagine Malone snatching a rebound, going coast to coast, weaving through traffic for a finish or consistantly setting up teammates for baskets? Can you imagine Malone playing point forward, play after play? We've never seen a athlete like Lebron before, thats for sure....

I think you are not getting what I am saying... what lebron is doing has been done.. Magic johnson was 6'9 255 and could grab the ball , go coast to coast finish in traffic or throw an amazing pass.. again, been there done that with magic....

what I mean by game changer, Lebron didn't change the game... Magic and Bird did, MJ did, pistol pete did... they brought something new to the game.... It has nothing to do with sniffing the finals, to be a game changer.... Piston pete inspired a generation of players, no one is trying to copy lebron....lebron posses great athleticism and size, skillwise he is not great at anything....

Being able to play all 5 positions on both ends of the court is pretty new. I think Magic occasionally played center but he didn't do the kinds of things you expect from a center (rebound, block shots). Or Magic could play shooting guard but he wouldn't hit perimeter shots like you'd want from an SG. Lebron does everything - from blocking shots to hitting 3s and getting assists - that you'd expect from PGs, Cs, and everything in between. If no one is trying to copy Lebron, it's only because they already know they can't do it.

Good Post. Too many times when people analyze a team or a player on an individual basis, they never mention the defensive side of the ball. Magic may have been able to somewhat play all 5 positions, but he certainly couldn't defend all five positions like Lebron could. Lebron shut down Parker in the last 2 elimination games. Coach Spo said in the presser than when someone got hot, he put Lebron on them. Riley and KC Jones used to hide Magic and Bird on the defensive end of the floor....

Bonn1997 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

Nalod wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:walton was a finals mvp and was the main guy to lead them to a title. he was a regular-season mvp. two-time all-nba first team.

he was a better player than ewing. ewing had the longer career and accrued more points but walton had the better career.

thought experiment: who do you draft of the two?

Walton was not better than Ewing..Ewing was better offensively and defensively..Walton was a better passer..Walton had a much better team around him..Walton had two good years as a pro...Im not sure if you consider Walton a franchise type player...

Ewing had a "better career" no doubt. At the peak of their powers Walton was a better player. His block shots, rebounding and shooting on top of passing made him among the best of all time but it was a tiny sample of work due to his inability to stay on the court. With that I put him in the same arena as others in that gray area "top 50" type player.

Youtube ooows and Ahhhs make the legend of players distorted vs. a current player who still has maybe 7 good years left in his prime. Lebron can win an MVP in a championship series without scoring a point by locking down an opponent at any position, rebounding, assists and block shots. There are few players in the history of the game that can do that.

Larry was a great passer because he was opened the floor up with his long ranger shooting.

The game Pistol Pete hung 68 was against the knicks. I have a DVD of the game and saw it on TV live against the New Orleans Jazz. He killed Clyde that nite. If the 3pt line was established he would have had 100!

LOL, I knew it was against the knicks.. didn't want to pour salt in the wound.... He was an amazing talent..

Lebron can win an MVP in a championship series without scoring a point by locking down an opponent at any position, rebounding, assists and block shots. There are few players in the history of the game that can do that.

lafayette lever was another great all around player, I never thought he got enough credit,and would never get a MVP although he was a very good defender, passer, rebounder, etc... look at his stats one season he avg 19/8/8 with almost 3 steals... another year of 20/9/8 with 3 steals.... just amazing.... again lebron is a great player but he is not a game changer like some of the other guys were like pistol pete and magic(bring something new to the game).. I think lebron is rare for this generation of streetball NBA players.... he is doing things that were done before, but what most guys are not doing today....

Pistol Pete was amazing...It was incredible that Fat Lever nearly averaged a triple double and dude was only about 6'3 (didn't hurt that he played for Doug Moe who saw the game similarly to Don Nelson). But I have to disagree with Lebron not being a game changer. Forget game changer, he was a franchise changer. Pistol Pete never sniffed the finals let alone had much success in the playoffs....Lebron carried one of the worse franchises in the league to the finals and posted league bests reg season records....

What 6'8 260lb player in the history of the game can do what Lebron is doing? Lebron is the same size as Karl Malone. Can you imagine Malone snatching a rebound, going coast to coast, weaving through traffic for a finish or consistantly setting up teammates for baskets? Can you imagine Malone playing point forward, play after play? We've never seen a athlete like Lebron before, thats for sure....

I think you are not getting what I am saying... what lebron is doing has been done.. Magic johnson was 6'9 255 and could grab the ball , go coast to coast finish in traffic or throw an amazing pass.. again, been there done that with magic....

what I mean by game changer, Lebron didn't change the game... Magic and Bird did, MJ did, pistol pete did... they brought something new to the game.... It has nothing to do with sniffing the finals, to be a game changer.... Piston pete inspired a generation of players, no one is trying to copy lebron....lebron posses great athleticism and size, skillwise he is not great at anything....

Being able to play all 5 positions on both ends of the court is pretty new. I think Magic occasionally played center but he didn't do the kinds of things you expect from a center (rebound, block shots). Or Magic could play shooting guard but he wouldn't hit perimeter shots like you'd want from an SG. Lebron does everything - from blocking shots to hitting 3s and getting assists - that you'd expect from PGs, Cs, and everything in between. If no one is trying to copy Lebron, it's only because they already know they can't do it.

I have never seen lebron play center, but magic did play center as a rookie and won the title..

In Game 6, Magic Johnson played what may have been the greatest game of his career. Playing on the road in Philadelphia, Magic (a 6'9" point guard) started the game at center and eventually played all 5 positions in a dominating performance. Scoring a game-high 42 points and grabbing a game-high 15 rebounds—and handing out 7 assists—Magic Johnson led the Lakers to the NBA crown.

again outside of not blocking shots, there was nothing that magic didn't do.. again, what lebron is doing is not new.. I mentioned guys like fat lever who did it all and on the defensive side of the ball...and even more amazing that he averaged more boards per game than lebron from the guard position... lebron is certainly different from what we have today, but that is because the game has moved so far away from what it used to be.. I have seen this before...

If no one is trying to copy Lebron, it's only because they already know they can't do it.

I'm sorry bonn, but that doesn't make sense...guys copied bird, magic, dirk, pistol pete because they admired that game changing style, guys copied doc not because they felt they could do it, but because they admired it...

I like lebron a lot as a player, probably defended him more than anyone around here, but what is there about him to emulate, outside of his flopping skills..