Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:ray allen saved this series for miami... lebron is another front runner...

37 and 12 in game 7 and he's a front runner? Knocking in jumper after jumpr which was the weakest part of his game for years and he's a front runner? Obviously, most of us Knick fans dont like Lebron but you have to give him his due....back-to-back finals mvp's were well deserved. Dude will go down as one of the top 10 players to ever play possibly even higher...

this is more of an inside thing with me and another poster which is why I posted it in a response to him.. no need for me to even engage you in this, you don't understand.. I mean I have been one of biggest lebron supporters on this site when it comes to his talent, so posting his stats and telling me how well he played after I watched the game isn't necessary....

How am I supposed to know its an inside joke?! You put that comment out there and it reads as you not giving him his proper credit, like the typical Lerbon haters who refuse to give him his due even after watching him step up after they claim he didn't have the heart to. I apologize for lumping you in, but like I said, that's how your post read....

YEA, I posted it directly to 3g, but if you have been following I am one of the few that has been giving lebron a lot of credit while others were saying He "has help" and carmelo doesn't...... so I thought you especially would recognize that... but my bad if I wasn't clear...

RoyBatty wrote:I'd still go Jordan and Bird any day. As a matter of personal preference. Bird was an ice cold assassin. My 10-year old daughter jumps higher than him. But aside from Jordan and Magic, no other player since the 80s was in the same mental league of Bird as a basketball player.
I think Danny Green joins J.R. Smith and James Harden (OKC version 2012 Finals) for not showing up when it mattered the most.
I give old man Ginobili the pass.
I will watch the evolution of Kawhi Leonard, the anti-Lebron.

I agree with you, Bird, MJ and Magic had "it", Hakeem had "it".... those guys just had it...... lebron is a great player in this era, the flopping, no hand checking, circus the NBA is today.. butas good of a ballplayer and athlete he is now, I still see a lot of flaws, with his game and mentally... I just can't put him in the same league as guys like magic, MJ or bird..

tkf wrote:

RoyBatty wrote:I'd still go Jordan and Bird any day. As a matter of personal preference. Bird was an ice cold assassin. My 10-year old daughter jumps higher than him. But aside from Jordan and Magic, no other player since the 80s was in the same mental league of Bird as a basketball player.
I think Danny Green joins J.R. Smith and James Harden (OKC version 2012 Finals) for not showing up when it mattered the most.
I give old man Ginobili the pass.
I will watch the evolution of Kawhi Leonard, the anti-Lebron.

I agree with you, Bird, MJ and Magic had "it", Hakeem had "it".... those guys just had it...... lebron is a great player in this era, the flopping, no hand checking, circus the NBA is today.. butas good of a ballplayer and athlete he is now, I still see a lot of flaws, with his game and mentally... I just can't put him in the same league as guys like magic, MJ or bird..

Mentally? I don't know, how do you mentally fail to win 4 mvps by age 28? I think in the hand check era he would be ok cuz he could hand check as well. Dude is a beast.

I'd say all these guys would be just fine in any era!

Nalod wrote:How we measure is always open for debate.

Lebron can't be meaured at age 28. He has some years to add to the resume.

THre are the winners: Russell and Jordan. These two stand alone.

4-5-6 rings? We got guys like bird, Kobe magic, worthy, jabbar, duncan, Pippen, shaq and Rodman. They are great and Winners!

Wilt has two but he is a top ten guy. Same for Hakeem? Wilt in his era dominated. So does Lebron.

Top 11.....

Wilt
Jabbar
Russell
Shaq
Jordan
magic
Bird
Lebron
Duncan
Hakeem

Room for debate of course.

Oscar, Barkley, Malone, stockton, EWing, Baylor, West, Clyde, Reed, Monroe, Walton, Rick Barry,......some with rings, some without.

Nalod's top 5 by position:

Jabbar c
Duncan f
Bird SF
Jordan G
Lebron G

I got Lebron and Bird as great passers. Duncan and Jabbar will also pass from the post. Jordan can finish. I don't need a pure point on the alltime list.

How does Walton make the discussion ...He essentially had two good NBA seasons...He scored 6,600 career points, just to compare, Ewing scored 24k...

Right now, I'll go with Magic over Bron and Dream over Duncan with all the others remaining the same...I don't see Bron as a great passer...Bird was a great passer, Magic was a great passer...Bron is good...U don't get the oooooo's and ahhhhhhh's from Bron...

tkf wrote:

RoyBatty wrote:I'd still go Jordan and Bird any day. As a matter of personal preference. Bird was an ice cold assassin. My 10-year old daughter jumps higher than him. But aside from Jordan and Magic, no other player since the 80s was in the same mental league of Bird as a basketball player.
I think Danny Green joins J.R. Smith and James Harden (OKC version 2012 Finals) for not showing up when it mattered the most.
I give old man Ginobili the pass.
I will watch the evolution of Kawhi Leonard, the anti-Lebron.

I agree with you, Bird, MJ and Magic had "it", Hakeem had "it".... those guys just had it...... lebron is a great player in this era, the flopping, no hand checking, circus the NBA is today.. butas good of a ballplayer and athlete he is now, I still see a lot of flaws, with his game and mentally... I just can't put him in the same league as guys like magic, MJ or bird..

Respectfully disagree. The past knocks on Lebron no longer applies. He's proven to be clutch (30+ pts per in game 7's) big shot after big shot last night to keep the Spurs from taking the league, he's improved his jumper by leaps and bounds and he's added a post game to the repertoire. Not only that, people never mention how good of a defender he is. He shut down Parker in the last 2 games and coach Spo said in the presser that whenever someone from the Spurs got hot, he put Lebron on them...from Kawhi to Tony to Manu....

If you were listening to Magic last night, he pretty much places Lebron over himself saying he;s the closes to Jordan throne than anyone thats played the game...

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:How we measure is always open for debate.

Lebron can't be meaured at age 28. He has some years to add to the resume.

THre are the winners: Russell and Jordan. These two stand alone.

4-5-6 rings? We got guys like bird, Kobe magic, worthy, jabbar, duncan, Pippen, shaq and Rodman. They are great and Winners!

Wilt has two but he is a top ten guy. Same for Hakeem? Wilt in his era dominated. So does Lebron.

Top 11.....

Wilt
Jabbar
Russell
Shaq
Jordan
magic
Bird
Lebron
Duncan
Hakeem

Room for debate of course.

Oscar, Barkley, Malone, stockton, EWing, Baylor, West, Clyde, Reed, Monroe, Walton, Rick Barry,......some with rings, some without.

Nalod's top 5 by position:

Jabbar c
Duncan f
Bird SF
Jordan G
Lebron G

I got Lebron and Bird as great passers. Duncan and Jabbar will also pass from the post. Jordan can finish. I don't need a pure point on the alltime list.

How does Walton make the discussion ...He essentially had two good NBA seasons...He scored 6,600 career points, just to compare, Ewing scored 24k...

Right now, I'll go with Magic over Bron and Dream over Duncan with all the others remaining the same...I don't see Bron as a great passer...Bird was a great passer, Magic was a great passer...Bron is good...U don't get the oooooo's and ahhhhhhh's from Bron...

Lebron see's the floor just as well as Bird. One reason you dont get the "Ohhh's and Ahh's is because the fastbreak no longer exists in todays game. The fast break is when the floor opens up to throw the no looks, 20 foot, one handed bounce pass, behind the back, etc. Hard to get the ohh's and ahh's when your playing 5 on 5 in the crowded half court....With that said, Lebron see's the floor very well, anticipates extremely well and makes pin-point passes on the regular...

3G4G wrote:

Uptown wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Uptown wrote:

3G4G wrote:Larry Bird did things I've yet to see any small forward or any player for the matter do including Jordan....Prime Bird in a Close Out Game would have Lebron Shook.....

Bird would tell you what he's going to do in a game, in your face and do exactly that when the stakes were the highest.

The further we get from past greats, the more ridiculous these debates become. Too many people didn't see enough of the greats when they were great, including myself not seeing guys such as Wilt/Russell/Baylor/Pete/West/Frazier/Oscar etc etc

I hated Bird while he was playing mainly because he played on the hated Celts....With the that said, I always recognized his supreme talent, one the top 4 players I ever saw. With that said, Bird is on record as saying Lebron is the best all around player he ever saw....

Bird is on record saying Jordan is basically the perfect basketball player created by God

Edit: My bad Bird went another step forward.......

"I didn't think anyone was capable of doing what Michael has done to us," marveled Celtics ace Larry Bird. "He is the most exciting, awesome player in the game today. I think it's just God disguised as Michael Jordan."

and I have the quote with link....

http://www.nba.com/history/jordan63_moments.html

I watched the game live when MJ dropped 63 on the Celts and I remember watching a clip of the press conference on the news when Bird called him "God disguised as Jordan." My comment to you had nothing to do with an LBJ/MJ comparison but more of a Bird/LBJ comparison. I think Birds comments about Lerbon was Bird conceding that Lebron is a more talented player than himself....

Kevin Garnett is a better All-Around player than Hakeem but I wouldn't say he's better than Hakeem and I'm sure Hakeem would admit Garnett is a BETTER ALL AROUND PLAYER than himself or amongst the best he's seen.

What Bird admitted to was the case 3yrs ago but when Lebron and the Heat played Dallas..Dirk proved to be the better player that series....All this Lebron Great This Great That....next Jordan... is really relative and often times overblown.

He's simply the best player of this generation but that's saying a whole lot in the grand scheme of things.

Here's a few quotes from Bird on Lebron...They are a few years old though...

"He actually carried [the Heat] all the way through the playoffs," Bird told ESPN's Jackie MacMullan. "If you go back to the beginning of the playoffs, has anyone ever had a better run? It seems like you have a bad game once in a while—he never did have a bad one. He was so focused, you could just see his confidence building and building and building…He should go down in history as one of the top, top players, and maybe he can get close to Michael [Jordan]."

http://www.complex.com/sports/2012/07/larry-bird-thinks-lebron-james-had-the-best-playoff-run-in-nba-history

A second MVP now in his bag, the question, even relatively early in his career, is worth asking. How great is LeBron James? The back-to-back NBA MVPs speak volumes (LBJ joins Pettit, Bird, Mailman and Duncan as the only multiple winners in league history at the forward position) but so does the endorsement of legendary forwards as well: "He's one guy in the league that I think he'll probably be better than all of us when it's all said and done." -- Larry Bird

NBA.com

holfresh wrote:

Uptown wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:How we measure is always open for debate.

Lebron can't be meaured at age 28. He has some years to add to the resume.

THre are the winners: Russell and Jordan. These two stand alone.

4-5-6 rings? We got guys like bird, Kobe magic, worthy, jabbar, duncan, Pippen, shaq and Rodman. They are great and Winners!

Wilt has two but he is a top ten guy. Same for Hakeem? Wilt in his era dominated. So does Lebron.

Top 11.....

Wilt
Jabbar
Russell
Shaq
Jordan
magic
Bird
Lebron
Duncan
Hakeem

Room for debate of course.

Oscar, Barkley, Malone, stockton, EWing, Baylor, West, Clyde, Reed, Monroe, Walton, Rick Barry,......some with rings, some without.

Nalod's top 5 by position:

Jabbar c
Duncan f
Bird SF
Jordan G
Lebron G

I got Lebron and Bird as great passers. Duncan and Jabbar will also pass from the post. Jordan can finish. I don't need a pure point on the alltime list.

How does Walton make the discussion ...He essentially had two good NBA seasons...He scored 6,600 career points, just to compare, Ewing scored 24k...

Right now, I'll go with Magic over Bron and Dream over Duncan with all the others remaining the same...I don't see Bron as a great passer...Bird was a great passer, Magic was a great passer...Bron is good...U don't get the oooooo's and ahhhhhhh's from Bron...

Lebron see's the floor just as well as Bird. One reason you dont get the "Ohhh's and Ahh's is because the fastbreak no longer exists in todays game. The fast break is when the floor opens up to throw the no looks, 20 foot, one handed bounce pass, behind the back, etc. Hard to get the ohh's and ahh's when your playing 5 on 5 in the crowded half court....With that said, Lebron see's the floor very well, anticipates extremely well and makes pin-point passes on the regular...

Have to disagree...Bron doesn't see the floor like Bird...Not even close...

We'll have to agree to disagree. Bird was a phenomenal passer and I dont want this to turn into a 'tear one guy down to lift up the other guy' because they are both elite level passer. But to say its not even close is a ridiculous statement...

And for good measure:

As it stands Lebron is averaging 7ast per for his career. Bird averaged 6.3.
Lebron averaged more than 7ast a season 6 times to Birds 3 times. Not to mention, Lebron averaged 8.6 ast one season.....Its waaaaay closer than you pretend it to be.....P