Bonn1997 wrote:

playa2 wrote:

Studying under Dick Bavetta for 13 years was like pursuing a graduate degree in advanced game manipulation. He knew how to marshal the tempo and tone of a game better than any referee in the league, by far. He also knew how to take subtle — and not so subtle — cues from the NBA front office and extend a playoff series or, worse yet, change the complexion of that series.

Danny told me that Jordan himself said that everyone in the league knew that Bavetta cheated in games and that the players and coaches just hoped he would be cheating for them on game night. Did Bavetta have a hidden agenda? Or was he the ultimate company man, making sure the NBA and its fans got a competitive game most times he was on
the court?

We played this little game during the regular season and summer league. After a game, all three REFS would gather around the VCR and watch a replay of the game. Early in the contest, the announcers would say, "Holy cow! They're really letting them play tonight!" If they only knew...

Relationships between NBA players and referees were generally all over the board — love, hate, and everything in-between. Some players, even very good ones, were targeted by referees and the league because they were too talented for their own good.

http://deadspin.com/5392067/excerpts-from-the-book-the-nba-doesnt-want-you-to-read

Evidence-free journalism at its finest. Even if all of the unsupported accusations above were true, Bavetta wasn't one of the refs yesterday anyway.

In reality what it's really saying is these are well conditioned athletes, but are run by a commissionerr and front office like the WWE-WWF etc...

Why would Dick Bavetta have to be calling a game in the finals for this buffoonery to be taking place?

They all are trained for this kind of stuff.

Steven A Smith needs to shut his piehole, the punk knows he wouldn't have a gig if this gets fully exposed so he argues vehemently against the accusations. Props to Skip Bayless.

Giving this authority to already suspect NBA referees gives them the ability and opportunity to further change the outcome of a game. They could essentially fix a game how they see fit. Or, if they have a grudge against a player, change the outcome of a game by ejecting that player. It doesn't matter if they have a valid argument. It doesn't matter that a referee could be tooling with the game for their own benefit...at least, not to the NBA.

If that does not make much sense to you, do not feel alone, because it does not make any sense to me. This is just one way that officials can fix a game or games.

Another way is by deciding to not call a foul, or slew of fouls, that occur during a given game. In addition, they could choose to call fouls that never even occurred.

By doing any of these things, they can manipulate the score to be within a range of their selection. It is the oldest trick in the book and, quite frankly, I'm getting sick of seeing it occur and so are the players.

Bonn1997 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:The non-calls at the end are distracting from how well and even the whole series has been officiated. Actually, even in this game Miami was called for five more fouls and SAS had seven more free throw attempts. It's not like Miami was being passive - Lebron and Wade were definitely attacking the basket.
I think Nalod's right. The refs just didn't want to hand San Antonia a championship on a foul call. If you wanted to fix the game for Miami, this is NOT how you would do it. You wouldn't be balanced (or possibly slightly favor SAS) all game and then have two blatant bad calls favoring Miami at the end. You'd subtly favor Miami all game and not let it even come down to a final play.

you and nalod have a point, but as ironwill said in the following post, too much acting, not cosistent with the calls, just ugly.. the game looks like a 3 ring circus with guys falling all over the place, especially lebron, wade and bosh.. just ugly... I know manu was fouled and I would have loved to have seen that called simply because it wasn't the challenge of a shot or dunk, but ray allen was beat and he reached knowing the refs would not blow the whistle and he just hacked him.. I hate that..

good game, until the end, it just got wild and out of control it seemed.....

People just don't realize how hard the NBA is to ref, and part of that is due to bad PR by the league. Give some serious thought to all the info. in this thread, including the articles linked in it.
http://apbr.org/metrics/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8249
It might change how you feel when you watch games in the future.

oh I understand I officiated some HS and church league games.. It was hard with these kids becoming better athletes, quicker, faster... It is not easy at all, you have to make a call in a split second and stand by it... I had a game end up in a brawl with parents and players, a church league.. it was ugly, the police came and arrested a lot of parents.. It is not easy.. but these guys get tons of training, they have more guys on the floor... we know mistakes happen, but the lack of consistency bothers me and it all started when stern and his unspoken word policy of letting star players get the benefit of the doubt.. Stop trying to influence games, stop trying to manufacture stars, let the game take care of itself.

If you get 5% of the calls wrong and there are a thousand calls and non-calls a game, it's impossible to look "consistent."
You're asking for something a human can't do.

I guess so, and if that is the case then where do yo go from here bonn? the game wasn't always this way..

I think it always was - people just didn't have internet forums to reinforce their complaining. I do remember frequent complaining about the refs and the whole league being against the Knicks in the '90s, though.
Where do you go from here? That's up to you. I try to look at the box score stats and consider how the two teams are playing to decide whether the refs are being fair. It looks fine in this series.

i THINK in the 80's and for the most part the 90's, the league was physical, and it was pretty consistent. You had to get clobbered for the most part... today, it is touch and go, guys flopping, ticky tack fouls, I think that is what is most frustrating.. just look at how flagrants are called now.... it is so technical..... I don't think it is the same bonn...

dk7th wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:The non-calls at the end are distracting from how well and even the whole series has been officiated. Actually, even in this game Miami was called for five more fouls and SAS had seven more free throw attempts. It's not like Miami was being passive - Lebron and Wade were definitely attacking the basket.
I think Nalod's right. The refs just didn't want to hand San Antonia a championship on a foul call. If you wanted to fix the game for Miami, this is NOT how you would do it. You wouldn't be balanced (or possibly slightly favor SAS) all game and then have two blatant bad calls favoring Miami at the end. You'd subtly favor Miami all game and not let it even come down to a final play.

you and nalod have a point, but as ironwill said in the following post, too much acting, not cosistent with the calls, just ugly.. the game looks like a 3 ring circus with guys falling all over the place, especially lebron, wade and bosh.. just ugly... I know manu was fouled and I would have loved to have seen that called simply because it wasn't the challenge of a shot or dunk, but ray allen was beat and he reached knowing the refs would not blow the whistle and he just hacked him.. I hate that..

good game, until the end, it just got wild and out of control it seemed.....

People just don't realize how hard the NBA is to ref, and part of that is due to bad PR by the league. Give some serious thought to all the info. in this thread, including the articles linked in it.
http://apbr.org/metrics/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8249
It might change how you feel when you watch games in the future.

oh I understand I officiated some HS and church league games.. It was hard with these kids becoming better athletes, quicker, faster... It is not easy at all, you have to make a call in a split second and stand by it... I had a game end up in a brawl with parents and players, a church league.. it was ugly, the police came and arrested a lot of parents.. It is not easy.. but these guys get tons of training, they have more guys on the floor... we know mistakes happen, but the lack of consistency bothers me and it all started when stern and his unspoken word policy of letting star players get the benefit of the doubt.. Stop trying to influence games, stop trying to manufacture stars, let the game take care of itself.

If you get 5% of the calls wrong and there are a thousand calls and non-calls a game, it's impossible to look "consistent."
You're asking for something a human can't do.

I guess so, and if that is the case then where do yo go from here bonn? the game wasn't always this way..

I think it always was - people just didn't have internet forums to reinforce their complaining. I do remember frequent complaining about the refs and the whole league being against the Knicks in the '90s, though.
Where do you go from here? That's up to you. I try to look at the box score stats and consider how the two teams are playing to decide whether the refs are being fair. It looks fine in this series.

i THINK in the 80's and for the most part the 90's, the league was physical, and it was pretty consistent. You had to get clobbered for the most part... today, it is touch and go, guys flopping, ticky tack fouls, I think that is what is most frustrating.. just look at how flagrants are called now.... it is so technical..... I don't think it is the same bonn...

main differences:

1)hand checking was legal-- the league needs to bring back the hand check
2)palming was not allowed-- wade palms every single time he handles the ball and he is only one among dozens and dozens of players whose game is artificially made to seem better as a result. but the more you enable one-on-one moves like palming the more you will see the passing game evaporate
3)traveling was not allowed-- the league actually allows an extra step and this too is rampant and artificially inflates the player's game, taking away from the team game. i think there have been two steps added since the 1970s, incredibly.

if you have a playground mentality then the modern nba is great, entertaining fun for most of the regular season and playoffs.

in the finals the game should be called as tightly as possible be it moving screens, palming, traveling, or fouls across the arms on drives.

another ridiculous rule is the shane battier charge-taking when the shooter has already left his feet for a shot pre-release and battier slides in and draws contact on the offensive guy's forward momentum. he's already left his feet and you're allowed to slide into position above the semi-circle?!?

ALL GREAT POINTS....... and that rule where the guy can come in after the man with the ball passes it and stands for a charge is ridiculous.

the game should be called tighter, especially in the finals, because at the end of games I have seen some ugly stuff and it doesn't resemble pro basketball as I knew it...

Nalod wrote:Can't believe Celts can parlay Garnett into Jordan and two no. 1's!

Dude was considered retirement. Celts might suck a bit this yeare but thats a nice asset grab they are making.

I agree, but they are selling garnett at the right time... while he still has this kind of value..

Nalod wrote:Can't believe Celts can parlay Garnett into Jordan and two no. 1's!

Dude was considered retirement. Celts might suck a bit this yeare but thats a nice asset grab they are making.

its all about retaining CP3, and in that context it's worth it.

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:Can't believe Celts can parlay Garnett into Jordan and two no. 1's!

Dude was considered retirement. Celts might suck a bit this yeare but thats a nice asset grab they are making.

its all about retaining CP3, and in that context it's worth it.

No doubt, and if they can parlay Grif and Bledsoe into Dwight then they contend on paper.

I think it is more about Doc than Garnett.

Bonn1997 wrote:

playa2 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

playa2 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:So, are we excusing Pop just because he's a hall of fame coach? Why wasn't Duncan on the floor at the end? His absence led to the offensive rebound and 3....Why is Parker not on the floor for the last shot when he's made big time shots in this series?

who is excusing him? there was no guarantee duncan gets the rebound... he gets the benefit of the doubt because he is probably one of the greatest coaches of all time, or maybe we should just put you on the bench for game 7? I dunno?

AFTER 10YRS OF POSTING YOU STILL TALK FOOLISHNESS.

The guy could stand flat foot and get a rebound, Pop over analyzed and made a horrible coaching decision. Jeff Vandummy said if Leonard makes the 2nd free throw I would take Bosh out of the game, well Bosh got the big offensive rebound when Lebron was clanking long jumpshots.

What happened to the road court advantage? Did SAS not "bring it"?

LOL you beat me to it.. I am surprised this guy even crawled out of his hole to post anything....

I can't believe some of you, you have the audacity to question my end time home team folds under pressure when the visiting team brings it. Then you complain and say the refs caused the spurs to lose in the end. HA HA CLASSIC HATERISM.

You saw that the Heat came back and the Spurs re-coiled & put the pressure on them in the end but the refs bailed the heat out with non foul calls. Sometimes I wonder about you guys.

You wanna address anything *I* actually said instead of using the generic "you" to avoid my comments?

This is what you said "If you wanted to fix the game for Miami, this is NOT how you would do it. You wouldn't be balanced (or possibly slightly favor SAS) all game and then have two blatant bad calls favoring Miami at the end. You'd subtly favor Miami all game and not let it even come down to a final play.