dk7th wrote:

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knickscity wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Here I thought the two point guard system was due to health

Health would be the last reason to play the 2 pg guard system.

Woody enjoys the small lineup, but it's mainly due to felton not cutting the mustard.

Swap him with a fully competent pg and there would be no need for 2 on the floor at the same time.

the crazy part is Felton winds up playing as the 2 with another pg on the floor.

true it is really crazy.

I am wondering if it was the circumstance of the roster at the beginning of the year and its success that had more to do with keeping with 2 PG lineup than anything. Day 1 roster: Tyson, Melo, Brewer, Felton, JR, Kidd, Kurt, Novak, Cope, Prigs, White, Camby, Sheed.

No suitable PF's and an excess of guards. Kidd was on fire the first month or so as was Brewer.

I think it had to do with roster more than Felton.

Yes those were the circumstances. But it was soon clear that having Kidd or Prigioni out there was the best circumstance for success.

This year I believe that Shumpert has to be pencilled in as a starter if only because he is the only competent backcourt defender. But he is far from a playmaker right now so you have to have a genuine orchestrator at the other backcourt position.

Woodson is up against it with managing a lot of different egos, circumstantially. And at the same time he has to do what is best for the team.

Cohesion is paramount since that leads to resilience. Felton is not a sufficient orchestrator and his defense is below par as it is. Why does he automatically get to start?

Equally important is a solid defense. Shumpert, Artest (if he still has it) and Chandler (if his neck is healed) should be getting priority minutes-wise.

That is what confuses me, as felton was a good defender in college and with the bobcats it seemed... not sure where his defense fell off, but I always thought he was better at one point in his career defensively than he is now..

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knickscity wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Here I thought the two point guard system was due to health

Health would be the last reason to play the 2 pg guard system.

Woody enjoys the small lineup, but it's mainly due to felton not cutting the mustard.

Swap him with a fully competent pg and there would be no need for 2 on the floor at the same time.

the crazy part is Felton winds up playing as the 2 with another pg on the floor.

true it is really crazy.

I am wondering if it was the circumstance of the roster at the beginning of the year and its success that had more to do with keeping with 2 PG lineup than anything. Day 1 roster: Tyson, Melo, Brewer, Felton, JR, Kidd, Kurt, Novak, Cope, Prigs, White, Camby, Sheed.

No suitable PF's and an excess of guards. Kidd was on fire the first month or so as was Brewer.

I think it had to do with roster more than Felton.

Yes those were the circumstances. But it was soon clear that having Kidd or Prigioni out there was the best circumstance for success.

This year I believe that Shumpert has to be pencilled in as a starter if only because he is the only competent backcourt defender. But he is far from a playmaker right now so you have to have a genuine orchestrator at the other backcourt position.

Woodson is up against it with managing a lot of different egos, circumstantially. And at the same time he has to do what is best for the team.

Cohesion is paramount since that leads to resilience. Felton is not a sufficient orchestrator and his defense is below par as it is. Why does he automatically get to start?

Equally important is a solid defense. Shumpert, Artest (if he still has it) and Chandler (if his neck is healed) should be getting priority minutes-wise.

That is what confuses me, as felton was a good defender in college and with the bobcats it seemed... not sure where his defense fell off, but I always thought he was better at one point in his career defensively than he is now..

When he was younger he could carry the weight. Now that he is older he can no longer carry said weight.

Some Knicks fans were upset when the team added a No. 1 draft pick in its deal to acquire Andrea Bargnani.

ESPN asked 215 members who cover the NBA to name the worst offseason addition to a team. Worst addition doesn't necessarily mean worst player. The vote took into account what a team gave up to acquire the player and how the player fits into the roster.

The panel voted Bargnani as the worst newcomer in the league. Ouch.

In the aftermath of the trade, many wondered why the Knicks gave up a No. 1 pick in 2016 for Bargnani, a player whom the Raptors seemed willing to part with.

Also, some suggested that Bargnani, a strong shooter but poor defender, does not address the team's biggest weaknesses (defense, post scoring).

In the best-case scenario for the Knicks, Bargnani finds the shooting form he established earlier in his career and knocks down open perimeter looks generated from Carmelo Anthony's post play.

Some people say that training camp is the best place to ,ale player introductions

Some people say it requires a minimum of three months for a roster with seven new players to cohere

The so-called ESPN panel of self appointed "experts" can suck eggs.

knicks1248 - here is another angle from another site

"Lighten Up, Francis"....

Posted by HarahanWhoDat (New Orleans Saints fan site)

8/23/2013 - By the way, some of you guys are WAY TOO SERIOUS; do you even remember back to the time you were just a kid, and football was SO MUCH FUN that it was all that you could do to have to force yourself to WAIT to get home or to the playground, and play it with your pals?????? DO NOT take the fun out of football for me, please Gentlemen ; let me be still be that kid, during THIS time of the year --- and while you're at it, allow YOURSELF to still enjoy it as well..."

Jus sayin

IronWillGiroud wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

misterearl wrote:Some People Say

Some Knicks fans were upset when the team added a No. 1 draft pick in its deal to acquire Andrea Bargnani.

ESPN asked 215 members who cover the NBA to name the worst offseason addition to a team. Worst addition doesn't necessarily mean worst player. The vote took into account what a team gave up to acquire the player and how the player fits into the roster.

The panel voted Bargnani as the worst newcomer in the league. Ouch.

In the aftermath of the trade, many wondered why the Knicks gave up a No. 1 pick in 2016 for Bargnani, a player whom the Raptors seemed willing to part with.

Also, some suggested that Bargnani, a strong shooter but poor defender, does not address the team's biggest weaknesses (defense, post scoring).

In the best-case scenario for the Knicks, Bargnani finds the shooting form he established earlier in his career and knocks down open perimeter looks generated from Carmelo Anthony's post play.

Some people say that training camp is the best place to ,ale player introductions

Some people say it requires a minimum of three months for a roster with seven new players to cohere

The so-called ESPN panel of self appointed "experts" can suck eggs.

If miami traded mike miller Battier and a 1st rnd pick For AB i could bet 10 stacks that the NBA would be praising Pat riley..

were does the hate for the knicks come from.. smh it's really ridiculous

just sayin', AB next to Lebron is different from AB next to Melo; with Lebron, don't worr about it. With Melo, let's hope it works out the way we know it might be able to,

EHHH! I don't think that's fare. It's not like this team hasn't seen some success. They had the #3 offense and only players breaking down messed that up. This year we're talking about adding players who thrive in the areas of the floor where Melo will still have his space to do what he does, so the mix is perfect. AB, Beno, MWP, THJ, Tyler can all play next to Melo because they fill different roles and fill in the gaps. Bargnani can play in the post, from 3pt range and in the mid range. Bargnani doesn't need to pound the ball to get off. If Woody can get AB to understand his role in stretching the floor but also crashing the boards he'll be fine.

yellowboy90 wrote:Woody and staff actually changed Amar'e and Melo's shot distribution over one summer. I am interested to see what they do for Shump,Felton, & Smith and the newcomers; Bargs, Beno, & MWP. NY is always mentioned in articles about new technology being implemented by teams and I hope they continue to put it to use.

I am really interested to see what role MWP plays offensively. If he is playing while Melo is on the floor I could see him prospering against 4s to score and make plays. My one complaint when Melo is at 4 is that the 3s couldn't exploit their matchup not Landry, Brewer, or Shump. None of them use their ability to take their man off the dribble(shump because of injury). I wonder if we see more Houston Artest than LA Artest.

It's going to be interesting. I don't know exactly how Woody intends to use all these new weapons he has. In some cases I can guess when it comes to AB, Beno and THJ you kind of already know how they'll fit in. MWP is a guy that has kind of morphed into a pretty defined role at this point in his career. He's a guy that can hang out on the perimeter and give you the occasional 3. MWP will hustle in to get offensive rebounds and he'll post up weaker players. He's not really looking for the ball all the time at this point. He has learned how to fit in playing with Kobe who is practically the same as playing with Melo. Meaning MWP knows he's getting the scraps. But he will slash to the basket if a defender leaves that lane open. MWP is actually pretty savvy. I watched a ton of Laker games last year. He still has some left in the tank. He's strong and in great shape and in NY he won't be overused. MWP plays with force and picks his spots to impose his will on games. I can't think of any 3's that can stop him from getting to the basket with his power.

The important thing for Bargnani is that his expectations and role are greatly reduced with the Knicks. He has a skill — albeit one that has faded in recent years — as a seven-footer with outside shooting ability. The Knicks only can hope that the nagging elbow injury that bothered him the last two years is, as he claims, resolved.

If he can shoot, he fits as a better option than Novak or Chris Copeland (who departed as a free agent for the Indiana Pacers).

If he can hit open shots and occasionally create his own, he provides a frontcourt addition who can help relieve some of the offensive pressure from Carmelo Anthony.

Steve Popper

occasionally create his own(shot) is important since Earl Smith Jr is the only other player who is confident in that creative role.

77 gets his shot

nixluva wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

misterearl wrote:Some People Say

Some Knicks fans were upset when the team added a No. 1 draft pick in its deal to acquire Andrea Bargnani.

ESPN asked 215 members who cover the NBA to name the worst offseason addition to a team. Worst addition doesn't necessarily mean worst player. The vote took into account what a team gave up to acquire the player and how the player fits into the roster.

The panel voted Bargnani as the worst newcomer in the league. Ouch.

In the aftermath of the trade, many wondered why the Knicks gave up a No. 1 pick in 2016 for Bargnani, a player whom the Raptors seemed willing to part with.

Also, some suggested that Bargnani, a strong shooter but poor defender, does not address the team's biggest weaknesses (defense, post scoring).

In the best-case scenario for the Knicks, Bargnani finds the shooting form he established earlier in his career and knocks down open perimeter looks generated from Carmelo Anthony's post play.

Some people say that training camp is the best place to ,ale player introductions

Some people say it requires a minimum of three months for a roster with seven new players to cohere

The so-called ESPN panel of self appointed "experts" can suck eggs.

If miami traded mike miller Battier and a 1st rnd pick For AB i could bet 10 stacks that the NBA would be praising Pat riley..

were does the hate for the knicks come from.. smh it's really ridiculous

just sayin', AB next to Lebron is different from AB next to Melo; with Lebron, don't worr about it. With Melo, let's hope it works out the way we know it might be able to,

EHHH! I don't think that's fare. It's not like this team hasn't seen some success. They had the #3 offense and only players breaking down messed that up. This year we're talking about adding players who thrive in the areas of the floor where Melo will still have his space to do what he does, so the mix is perfect. AB, Beno, MWP, THJ, Tyler can all play next to Melo because they fill different roles and fill in the gaps. Bargnani can play in the post, from 3pt range and in the mid range. Bargnani doesn't need to pound the ball to get off. If Woody can get AB to understand his role in stretching the floor but also crashing the boards he'll be fine.

if Bargnani was paired up with someone like LeBron he would be FORCED to play the correct way, but then again Miami doesnt make that trade since Bargnani doesnt address what they need, just like he doesnt address our needs, but merely at best enhances what wasnt truly broken.

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

misterearl wrote:Some People Say

Some Knicks fans were upset when the team added a No. 1 draft pick in its deal to acquire Andrea Bargnani.

ESPN asked 215 members who cover the NBA to name the worst offseason addition to a team. Worst addition doesn't necessarily mean worst player. The vote took into account what a team gave up to acquire the player and how the player fits into the roster.

The panel voted Bargnani as the worst newcomer in the league. Ouch.

In the aftermath of the trade, many wondered why the Knicks gave up a No. 1 pick in 2016 for Bargnani, a player whom the Raptors seemed willing to part with.

Also, some suggested that Bargnani, a strong shooter but poor defender, does not address the team's biggest weaknesses (defense, post scoring).

In the best-case scenario for the Knicks, Bargnani finds the shooting form he established earlier in his career and knocks down open perimeter looks generated from Carmelo Anthony's post play.

Some people say that training camp is the best place to ,ale player introductions

Some people say it requires a minimum of three months for a roster with seven new players to cohere

The so-called ESPN panel of self appointed "experts" can suck eggs.

If miami traded mike miller Battier and a 1st rnd pick For AB i could bet 10 stacks that the NBA would be praising Pat riley..

were does the hate for the knicks come from.. smh it's really ridiculous

just sayin', AB next to Lebron is different from AB next to Melo; with Lebron, don't worr about it. With Melo, let's hope it works out the way we know it might be able to,

EHHH! I don't think that's fare. It's not like this team hasn't seen some success. They had the #3 offense and only players breaking down messed that up. This year we're talking about adding players who thrive in the areas of the floor where Melo will still have his space to do what he does, so the mix is perfect. AB, Beno, MWP, THJ, Tyler can all play next to Melo because they fill different roles and fill in the gaps. Bargnani can play in the post, from 3pt range and in the mid range. Bargnani doesn't need to pound the ball to get off. If Woody can get AB to understand his role in stretching the floor but also crashing the boards he'll be fine.

he actually does, bargnani is an iso player by nature, he wont be catching and shooting as much as guys think he will.

if Bargnani was paired up with someone like LeBron he would be FORCED to play the correct way, but then again Miami doesnt make that trade since Bargnani doesnt address what they need, just like he doesnt address our needs, but merely at best enhances what wasnt truly broken.

very well said, and so true!!

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

misterearl wrote:Some People Say

Some Knicks fans were upset when the team added a No. 1 draft pick in its deal to acquire Andrea Bargnani.

ESPN asked 215 members who cover the NBA to name the worst offseason addition to a team. Worst addition doesn't necessarily mean worst player. The vote took into account what a team gave up to acquire the player and how the player fits into the roster.

The panel voted Bargnani as the worst newcomer in the league. Ouch.

In the aftermath of the trade, many wondered why the Knicks gave up a No. 1 pick in 2016 for Bargnani, a player whom the Raptors seemed willing to part with.

Also, some suggested that Bargnani, a strong shooter but poor defender, does not address the team's biggest weaknesses (defense, post scoring).

In the best-case scenario for the Knicks, Bargnani finds the shooting form he established earlier in his career and knocks down open perimeter looks generated from Carmelo Anthony's post play.

Some people say that training camp is the best place to ,ale player introductions

Some people say it requires a minimum of three months for a roster with seven new players to cohere

The so-called ESPN panel of self appointed "experts" can suck eggs.

If miami traded mike miller Battier and a 1st rnd pick For AB i could bet 10 stacks that the NBA would be praising Pat riley..

were does the hate for the knicks come from.. smh it's really ridiculous

just sayin', AB next to Lebron is different from AB next to Melo; with Lebron, don't worr about it. With Melo, let's hope it works out the way we know it might be able to,

EHHH! I don't think that's fare. It's not like this team hasn't seen some success. They had the #3 offense and only players breaking down messed that up. This year we're talking about adding players who thrive in the areas of the floor where Melo will still have his space to do what he does, so the mix is perfect. AB, Beno, MWP, THJ, Tyler can all play next to Melo because they fill different roles and fill in the gaps. Bargnani can play in the post, from 3pt range and in the mid range. Bargnani doesn't need to pound the ball to get off. If Woody can get AB to understand his role in stretching the floor but also crashing the boards he'll be fine.

he actually does, bargnani is an iso player by nature, he wont be catching and shooting as much as guys think he will.

if Bargnani was paired up with someone like LeBron he would be FORCED to play the correct way, but then again Miami doesnt make that trade since Bargnani doesnt address what they need, just like he doesnt address our needs, but merely at best enhances what wasnt truly broken.

No one is suggesting that all AB will do on the Knicks is catch and shoot. Of course we expect AB to create his own shot, Post up, PnP... The point is that AB can do everything on the floor as a offensive player. It's that versatility that makes him a great fit for the Knicks. In particular AB is a great fit next to Melo.

Also you say the Knicks didn't have a need for a player like AB, but in fact AB does address a need. This team needed another lead scoring option. The problem they had was that too few of the players on this team could or even wanted to take shots in the playoffs. Basically it was Melo, JR and Felton. You can't win a title if those are the players you have taking the bulk of the shots and who you depend on in the playoffs.

Just look at the Playoff shot breakdown:

Melo      25.8 shots per game
JR        14.8
Felton    13.5
Shump     8.3
Tyson     4.3
KMart     4.2
Prigs     3.9
Cope      3.3
Amar'e    3.3
Kidd      2.1

That is HORRID scoring balance!!! This team had to address this issue. Adding AB and Beno will help to balance the floor and scoring this year. Both AB and Beno are excellent PnP players, so they can play with Melo on the floor or Amar'e. This team isn't designed to be a dominant rebounding team. The biggest issues of rebounding and scoring were addressed as best they could. I know people worry about rebounding but they also should know that both the Spurs and Heat are bad rebounding teams just like the Knicks.

we hear that every year, "x" player is a great fit next to melo.. how do you know that when they haven't played a game together? what is there to even suggest they are a great fit. This sounds more like wishful thinking that something based in reality..

Also you say the Knicks didn't have a need for a player like AB, but in fact AB does address a need. This team needed another lead scoring option. The problem they had was that too few of the players on this team could or even wanted to take shots in the playoffs. Basically it was Melo, JR and Felton. You can't win a title if those are the players you have taking the bulk of the shots and who you depend on in the playoffs.

you do realize that shots become more difficult in the playoffs. I think you are going to be greatly dissapointed when you find out that AB is not a lead scoring option and will have trouble getting quality shots in the playoffs.. the guy has never been an efficient scorer at all, and it will be even more difficult in the playoffs... And enough with this beno/AB pick and roll.. felton and chandler ran pick and roll well, the problem is, teams like the pacers made is hard to run that. There was an article I found that talked about the difficulty of running that vs the pacers when they have Hill and george in the game, especially vs the knicks.. and honestly, when carmelo is on the bench, no one in the league will fear a bargnani/beno pick and roll, it really isn't going to make the knicks a playoff series better my man...

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

misterearl wrote:Some People Say

Some Knicks fans were upset when the team added a No. 1 draft pick in its deal to acquire Andrea Bargnani.

ESPN asked 215 members who cover the NBA to name the worst offseason addition to a team. Worst addition doesn't necessarily mean worst player. The vote took into account what a team gave up to acquire the player and how the player fits into the roster.

The panel voted Bargnani as the worst newcomer in the league. Ouch.

In the aftermath of the trade, many wondered why the Knicks gave up a No. 1 pick in 2016 for Bargnani, a player whom the Raptors seemed willing to part with.

Also, some suggested that Bargnani, a strong shooter but poor defender, does not address the team's biggest weaknesses (defense, post scoring).

In the best-case scenario for the Knicks, Bargnani finds the shooting form he established earlier in his career and knocks down open perimeter looks generated from Carmelo Anthony's post play.

Some people say that training camp is the best place to ,ale player introductions

Some people say it requires a minimum of three months for a roster with seven new players to cohere

The so-called ESPN panel of self appointed "experts" can suck eggs.

If miami traded mike miller Battier and a 1st rnd pick For AB i could bet 10 stacks that the NBA would be praising Pat riley..

were does the hate for the knicks come from.. smh it's really ridiculous

just sayin', AB next to Lebron is different from AB next to Melo; with Lebron, don't worr about it. With Melo, let's hope it works out the way we know it might be able to,

EHHH! I don't think that's fare. It's not like this team hasn't seen some success. They had the #3 offense and only players breaking down messed that up. This year we're talking about adding players who thrive in the areas of the floor where Melo will still have his space to do what he does, so the mix is perfect. AB, Beno, MWP, THJ, Tyler can all play next to Melo because they fill different roles and fill in the gaps. Bargnani can play in the post, from 3pt range and in the mid range. Bargnani doesn't need to pound the ball to get off. If Woody can get AB to understand his role in stretching the floor but also crashing the boards he'll be fine.

he actually does, bargnani is an iso player by nature, he wont be catching and shooting as much as guys think he will.

if Bargnani was paired up with someone like LeBron he would be FORCED to play the correct way, but then again Miami doesnt make that trade since Bargnani doesnt address what they need, just like he doesnt address our needs, but merely at best enhances what wasnt truly broken.

No one is suggesting that all AB will do on the Knicks is catch and shoot. Of course we expect AB to create his own shot, Post up, PnP... The point is that AB can do everything on the floor as a offensive player. It's that versatility that makes him a great fit for the Knicks. In particular AB is a great fit next to Melo.

Also you say the Knicks didn't have a need for a player like AB, but in fact AB does address a need. This team needed another lead scoring option. The problem they had was that too few of the players on this team could or even wanted to take shots in the playoffs. Basically it was Melo, JR and Felton. You can't win a title if those are the players you have taking the bulk of the shots and who you depend on in the playoffs.

Just look at the Playoff shot breakdown:

Melo      25.8 shots per game
JR        14.8
Felton    13.5
Shump     8.3
Tyson     4.3
KMart     4.2
Prigs     3.9
Cope      3.3
Amar'e    3.3
Kidd      2.1

That is HORRID scoring balance!!! This team had to address this issue. Adding AB and Beno will help to balance the floor and scoring this year. Both AB and Beno are excellent PnP players, so they can play with Melo on the floor or Amar'e. This team isn't designed to be a dominant rebounding team. The biggest issues of rebounding and scoring were addressed as best they could. I know people worry about rebounding but they also should know that both the Spurs and Heat are bad rebounding teams just like the Knicks.

we hear that every year, "x" player is a great fit next to melo.. how do you know that when they haven't played a game together? what is there to even suggest they are a great fit. This sounds more like wishful thinking that something based in reality..

Also you say the Knicks didn't have a need for a player like AB, but in fact AB does address a need. This team needed another lead scoring option. The problem they had was that too few of the players on this team could or even wanted to take shots in the playoffs. Basically it was Melo, JR and Felton. You can't win a title if those are the players you have taking the bulk of the shots and who you depend on in the playoffs.

you do realize that shots become more difficult in the playoffs. I think you are going to be greatly dissapointed when you find out that AB is not a lead scoring option and will have trouble getting quality shots in the playoffs.. the guy has never been an efficient scorer at all, and it will be even more difficult in the playoffs... And enough with this beno/AB pick and roll.. felton and chandler ran pick and roll well, the problem is, teams like the pacers made is hard to run that. There was an article I found that talked about the difficulty of running that vs the pacers when they have Hill and george in the game, especially vs the knicks.. and honestly, when carmelo is on the bench, no one in the league will fear a bargnani/beno pick and roll, it really isn't going to make the knicks a playoff series better my man...