smackeddog wrote:Ha- watch the ref's desperately try to reduce the FT discrepancy now the game is over!

That's when I stopped watching. And I never turn the game off, even in blowouts. This one got to me . . .

BasketballJones wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

holfresh wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

holfresh wrote:By the way u Melo at the 4 lovers, Melo played the 4 a big portion of the second quarter with STAT on the bench when the lead got extended ..

"Melo at the 4" lovers? WTF? Can we STOP with this lover-hater horsesh!t?

And u can stop taking the opportunity to drive home your point of view everytime the Knicks lose...

My POV? I don't want to see us play Melo at the 4 anymore than you do. I am just asking you to stop labelling people as so and so haters and so and so lovers. It's stupid, irritating and serves no purpose. But whatever.

you are a "lover-hater" lover hater.

No ****?

With that said the Knicks are going to have to break this group up.

AnubisADL wrote:Knicks have no PG who can create. We have no choice but to run the offense through Melo.

With that said the Knicks are going to have to break this group up.

That's why they created the PnR. Bibby and Baron can run a PnR. That's why they created the Curl play. STAT and Novak can run a curl play on the weakside when Melo posts on the ballside. There are a TON of other options that don't require a great PG. We didn't really run any of them today. That's why they created Ball and Player movement where the PG stays at the top of the key. You can run screens and give and goes. Granted the Heat are a great defensive team, but we didn't even make them work for it.

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:Mentioning or complaining about Iso Melo is just a statement of fact. There was a contingent of posters here that warned against such a tactic not working against the playoff teams. The Heat are the worst team to try and do that against. The fact that the team came out looking to force that play rather than a more team oriented and varied attack is a real concern.

Woody is on trial as long as he's the head coach. You can't avoid having your every move critiqued if you're the head coach of a playoff team. This game was exactly what we were warning against. Where was the ball movement and player movement? Where were the spacing and PnR, Curls, Back cut plays?

Woody has a bad reputation as a coach that lacks offensive creativity and in game tactical ability. It was widely developed from his track record in ATL. He got swept out of the playoffs 2 years in a row. I found some fan quotes from his time in ATL and it sound familiar.

2. Offense: The Hawks offense breaks down like this: Run Joe Johnson through screens in an effort to get him free for a shot. If he doesn't get free, then pass it to Josh Smith or Tyronne Lue so that they can heave a last second perimeter shot. That's about it. We run no other plays. Other times we hand it to our 6'11 260 center at the top of the key so that he can make plays off of the dribble instead of the post where he is supposed to be. No pick and rolls, no two man games, no plays in the post for Josh Smith, Childress (who played PF in college) Marvin, or anyone else. It is like watching a bad game of streetball. In fact we need to hire AO, the head coach of the And 1 squad, because he runs better offensive sets than Woody does.

adjustments.

Joe Johnson his only answer, no matter how much defense is set up to stop him.

Milwaukee Bucks go on a 15-0 run on our home floor, no ideas, no thoughts. Just confusion on the bench and on the floor.

It is time for him to go.

Woody has to turn this around and I hope he can. We've seen this team play a more varied offensive attack so lets hope it's not going to be a problem going forward.

When the Knicks win you say they are running MDA plays, when they lose it's to much Melo ISO..

Did you not see them forcing the ball to melo in an ISO all night? I can understand trying to goto melo, but you can not have that as your only option. While posting melo other options should be working to get open incase that fails.

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:Mentioning or complaining about Iso Melo is just a statement of fact. There was a contingent of posters here that warned against such a tactic not working against the playoff teams. The Heat are the worst team to try and do that against. The fact that the team came out looking to force that play rather than a more team oriented and varied attack is a real concern.

Woody is on trial as long as he's the head coach. You can't avoid having your every move critiqued if you're the head coach of a playoff team. This game was exactly what we were warning against. Where was the ball movement and player movement? Where were the spacing and PnR, Curls, Back cut plays?

Woody has a bad reputation as a coach that lacks offensive creativity and in game tactical ability. It was widely developed from his track record in ATL. He got swept out of the playoffs 2 years in a row. I found some fan quotes from his time in ATL and it sound familiar.

2. Offense: The Hawks offense breaks down like this: Run Joe Johnson through screens in an effort to get him free for a shot. If he doesn't get free, then pass it to Josh Smith or Tyronne Lue so that they can heave a last second perimeter shot. That's about it. We run no other plays. Other times we hand it to our 6'11 260 center at the top of the key so that he can make plays off of the dribble instead of the post where he is supposed to be. No pick and rolls, no two man games, no plays in the post for Josh Smith, Childress (who played PF in college) Marvin, or anyone else. It is like watching a bad game of streetball. In fact we need to hire AO, the head coach of the And 1 squad, because he runs better offensive sets than Woody does.

adjustments.

Joe Johnson his only answer, no matter how much defense is set up to stop him.

Milwaukee Bucks go on a 15-0 run on our home floor, no ideas, no thoughts. Just confusion on the bench and on the floor.

It is time for him to go.

Woody has to turn this around and I hope he can. We've seen this team play a more varied offensive attack so lets hope it's not going to be a problem going forward.

When the Knicks win you say they are running MDA plays, when they lose it's to much Melo ISO..

NO! Pay closer attention. I've been very consistent with my criticism. It's been there after wins too, because I felt that the ISO Melo thing could be overused and fools gold. It works against regular season teams with so, so D and every once in a while it worked against some good teams too, but in the playoffs I warned that teams would shut that down.

There were a couple of games where the Knicks clearly went back to running the spread offense that MDA put in. This was before STAT came back. Woody clearly had them running a spread floor with Melo as the post option. The team was passing the ball and making open 3's and the offense looked great as everyone got involved. Did you forget those games? Did you pay attention to the actual sets they were running? This isn't about MDA really. This is about what this team needs to do offensively. Yeah the Knicks won some REGULAR season games with heavy ISO, but they were not good offensive performances and it eventually caught up with them. Woody even agreed with my assessment and said so and the very next game they went with more uptempo and a spread floor, ball and player movement.

holfresh wrote:MDA was/is a horrible coach..His one size fits all system is idiotic...Three ball offense is nothing more than a gimmick..Kobe won Championships running ISO..Jordan has six rings running ISO..Knicks ran ISO with Ewing...Come on, the list is too long of winning teams that ran ISO..

Why are you making this about MDA? This is about Woody and his lack of ability to figure out what would work against the Heat D, which is EXCELLENT against an ISO heavy offense, but SUCKS guarding the 3pt line.

You also missed my last post in response to your previous post:

holfresh wrote:When the Knicks win you say they are running MDA plays, when they lose it's to much Melo ISO..

nixluva wrote:NO! Pay closer attention. I've been very consistent with my criticism. It's been there after wins too, because I felt that the ISO Melo thing could be overused and fools gold. It works against regular season teams with so, so D and every once in a while it worked against some good teams too, but in the playoffs I warned that teams would shut that down.

There were a couple of games where the Knicks clearly went back to running the spread offense that MDA put in. This was before STAT came back. Woody clearly had them running a spread floor with Melo as the post option. The team was passing the ball and making open 3's and the offense looked great as everyone got involved. Did you forget those games? Did you pay attention to the actual sets they were running? This isn't about MDA really. This is about what this team needs to do offensively. Yeah the Knicks won some REGULAR season games with heavy ISO, but they were not good offensive performances and it eventually caught up with them. Woody even agreed with my assessment and said so and the very next game they went with more uptempo and a spread floor, ball and player movement.

holfresh wrote:MDA was/is a horrible coach..His one size fits all system is idiotic...Three ball offense is nothing more than a gimmick..Kobe won Championships running ISO..Jordan has six rings running ISO..Knicks ran ISO with Ewing...Come on, the list is too long of winning teams that ran ISO..

I still don't understand your point. This isn't about Kobe or Jordan or Ewing. It's not about hating ISO's. You guys really need to get a grip. The ONLY thing we've been saying is that you need to have some TEAM BB and variety in your attack too. It can't be just force feed the post no matter what the defense does. This is the freaking playoffs against the team that went to the finals last year!!! Come on man, you lose credibility when you post oversimplified crap like this.

knicks1248 wrote:

holfresh wrote:U lose credibility when u say this isnt about MDA..

can woodson make the adjustment..

Guys were either to aggressive, or to passive

He has to make the adjustment ..His job depends on it...I thought he did a poor job today, the team wasn't ready for this game...The intensity wasn't there in the second qt. ..His substitutions left a lot to be desired..Shump came back late in the seconds quarter...He also had STAT on the bench to close out the quarter...I think he was a deer in headlights today..