blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:Didn’t thibs do this in the atl series? Switched up the starting lineup and put in drose as a starter and it backfired.

Grimes and this starting unit been together all season. Just because grimes got hurt he loses his starting role?

As soon as grimes was back, he should’ve started. As soon as Randle Brunson or RJ was back from injury they started.

My point is why now? Hart should’ve moved back to his normal roll when grimes was back and our bench unit would’ve looked a lot better than it has been.

Now our starting unit and bench unit look out of sync.

No it's cause Grimes is still probably hurt.

Well, according to rumors on twitter, Grimes camp is starting to use social media to free Grimes. I'm just saying! Heard about this on one of the knicks news outlets.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiL27bvg-b-AhVtkIkEHe4pAywQFnoECA0QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fnypost.com%2F2023%2F05%2F07%2Fquentin-grimes-apparent-manager-criticizes-usage-by-knicks%2F&usg=AOvVaw0G9LElp0MxxikyDSozwSs3

We need this Grimes
https://t.co/f3W8NXvVZq

Rangers fired coach because they are contending talented team. We’ll see next if new coach can iron out issues. Thats the context of the article.
Thibs has two more years on deal and has had an outstanding season were team injected yoot and outperformed all expectations! Warts and all!!!!

Writer does mention we might loose to an 8 seed and barely scratches that Miami had injuries all season and had each been to finals and 7th game Semi the last two years!

Fans read this and parrot this kind of crap.
Only reason I say to move from Thibs is Luka or Giannis in a trade say they won’t resign if he is still coach.
Then you promote Johnny Bryant and keep the culture alive. If that don’t jive with those players then ****’em.
The culture comes first.

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

blkexec wrote:Didn’t thibs do this in the atl series? Switched up the starting lineup and put in drose as a starter and it backfired.

Grimes and this starting unit been together all season. Just because grimes got hurt he loses his starting role?

As soon as grimes was back, he should’ve started. As soon as Randle Brunson or RJ was back from injury they started.

My point is why now? Hart should’ve moved back to his normal roll when grimes was back and our bench unit would’ve looked a lot better than it has been.

Now our starting unit and bench unit look out of sync.

The move didn’t backfire it just wasn’t effective. Payton got lit up. Rose got lit up too.

Difference now is there is actually a possibility Fournier can make 3 point shots off the bench meanwhile IQ is injured and Grimes is missing layups

Ironically, our season might be in the hands of Fournier. You can't make this stuff up.

Lets see which direction Thibs go in game 4.

Start Grimes
Play Fournier
Play Deuce

If Grimes is hurt what better option than start him and play him 40+ minutes?

Philc1 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

blkexec wrote:Didn’t thibs do this in the atl series? Switched up the starting lineup and put in drose as a starter and it backfired.

Grimes and this starting unit been together all season. Just because grimes got hurt he loses his starting role?

As soon as grimes was back, he should’ve started. As soon as Randle Brunson or RJ was back from injury they started.

My point is why now? Hart should’ve moved back to his normal roll when grimes was back and our bench unit would’ve looked a lot better than it has been.

Now our starting unit and bench unit look out of sync.

The move didn’t backfire it just wasn’t effective. Payton got lit up. Rose got lit up too.

Difference now is there is actually a possibility Fournier can make 3 point shots off the bench meanwhile IQ is injured and Grimes is missing layups

Ironically, our season might be in the hands of Fournier. You can't make this stuff up.

Lets see which direction Thibs go in game 4.

Start Grimes
Play Fournier
Play Deuce

If Grimes is hurt what better option than start him and play him 40+ minutes?

If Grimes is hurt, he doesn’t play. Not understanding your point here. If he puts on an nba uniform he’s playing.

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:Shit clickbait article….
https://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/new-york-knicks-nba-playoffs-tom-thibodeau-miami-heat-head-coach-mike-budenholzer-nick-nurse

Rangers fired coach because they are contending talented team. We’ll see next if new coach can iron out issues. Thats the context of the article.
Thibs has two more years on deal and has had an outstanding season were team injected yoot and outperformed all expectations! Warts and all!!!!

Writer does mention we might loose to an 8 seed and barely scratches that Miami had injuries all season and had each been to finals and 7th game Semi the last two years!

Fans read this and parrot this kind of crap.
Only reason I say to move from Thibs is Luka or Giannis in a trade say they won’t resign if he is still coach.
Then you promote Johnny Bryant and keep the culture alive. If that don’t jive with those players then ****’em.
The culture comes first.

Disagree that its a bad article:

Could that mean ousting Thibodeau, who has proven capable of competing but not contending for a title in his years as an NBA boss, in favor of exiled coaches that have personally experienced that championship feeling? 

Again, it shouldn't. Thibodeau has made the most out of his current surroundings that formed a far-from-complete championship picture. One can only imagine what he can do with a "complete" team, one that the Knicks have reportedly kept busy in forming while the series with the Heat blazes on.

That seems fair.

Still, I would be happy to see Budenhlolzer hired.

You pulled the most balanced line out.

Does Tom Thibodeau's Knicks Future Hinge on Miami Series?

Tom Thibodeau has undoubtedly gotten a lot done with the New York Knicks this season, but missing out on a prime opportunity to reach the conference finals could be frowned upon with some championship talents relieved of duties elsewhere.

There are news dumps and then there's what the New York Rangers did on Saturday afternoon.

Fresh off postseason brutality in the opening round of the NHL's 2023 Stanley Cup Playoffs (losing a 2-0 lead en route to a seven-game loss to the New Jersey Devils), Madison Square Garden's professional hockey team "mutually parted ways" with head coach Gerard Gallant.

Thus ended Gallant's two-year tenure in blue, one that simultaneously failed to meet expectations and stand as a pairing that many of their NHL brethren would give their left arms to experience: the 216 points the Rangers earned over Gallant's watch were fifth-best in the NHL and they reached the conference finals last summer (albeit losing another 2-0 lead to the then-two-time defending champion Tampa Bay Lightning).

The Rangers dropped the news on Saturday late afternoon, when a good portion of their metropolitan fanbase was likely taking in the New York Knicks' futile Eastern Conference Semifinal matchup against the Miami Heat, a 105-86 loss that put them behind 2-1 in the best-of-seven set.

Scheduling for MSG's famed floor notwithstanding, the moves of one roommate rarely affect the other. It's not like the Knicks would ditch Thibodeau because their icy companions planted the idea into their heads.

here might be other, legitimate reasons from a hardwood perspective for that.

Let's get one thing out of the way: if Thibodeau was coaching anywhere else in the NBA ... perhaps with the exception of Los Angeles' purple-and-gold team ... his employment status for the 2023-24 season would be long assured. Originally criticized for exorcising talents both raw and proven from the New York lineup, his decision to switch and stick to a nine-man rotation has paid major dividends and shifted the narrative and trajectory of the Knicks' season.

Thibodeau has also weaned himself off the concept of seeing experienced players as infallible: his decision to bench All-Star Julius Randle during the fourth quarter of a momentum-shifting fourth game of the Eastern quarterfinals against Cleveland drew controversy but led to a crucial win. He pulled the plug on the Evan Fournier experience fairly quickly and afforded his starting five role to Quentin Grimes, who (along with Immanuel Quickley) became a trusted, essential part of this metropolitan affair rather than trade fodder. Thibodeau has even broken his apparent grudge against Obi Toppin to not only afford him major minutes but rely upon him while Randle has dealt with injuries.

The Knicks' success also makes it easy to forget that the Knicks are probably nowhere near full strength: at 47 wins and standing among the playoff bracket's automatic entrants, New York was one of the biggest overachievers in the NBA this season (thanks primarily to Jalen Brunson's breakout) and one has to imagine where they could've landed if not for a 10-13 start before Thibodeau professed his devotion to the nine-man set.

or all intents and purposes, that should be enough to quell any storm surrounding his future. But there would perhaps be no better way for a coach of the modern Knicks to go out than to become the face of a struggle he was far from fully responsible for.

Let's say Thibodeau's Knicks indeed fall to the Heat. Hardwood comedians of both the professional and amateur variety have likely stockpiled material in the event of the Knicks being denied a long-sought trip to the conference finals by an eighth seed, no matter how noble or worthy an opponent South Beach has proven to be.

The two losses sustained thus far, however, are not the usual brand of New York defeats: rather than careless errors leading to high-profile defeats that can prove to be downright comical, it's been a failure to adjust that has burned the Knicks in the early stages of this series. Each of the losses has seen them abandon the draining, penetrating efforts of interior work and instead try to throw threes at the problem to make it go away. New York's 20 percent success rate (8-of-40) from deep, partly staged in desperation because things got out of hand in a hurry, was its worst posting in an NBA Playoff game with at least 20 attempts, matching the output from the infamous Game 7 loss to Houston in the 1994 NBA Finals.

t's one thing to lose to a better team. But the Knicks proved themselves well capable of beating Miami this season, turning a narrow chase to avoid Play-In Tournament purgatory in a sizable canyon with three victories in four matchups all played within this calendar year.

Other old Thibodeau habits that seem to die hard include his preference of sticking veterans in over fresh young talent: Grimes, for example, was injured in the quarterfinal series win over Cleveland but has lost his pregame introduction to Josh Hart, the newest Knick that held his own in the rebounding game but has surprisingly become a slight offensive liability (40 percent from the field and 58 percent from the foul line in the three games against the Heat so far).

Thibodeau's fate could further be decided by factors well beyond his control: the fact that prime coaching talent lingers on the market after disappointing seasons abroad.

Mike Budenholzer, for example, was the ultimate victim of the Heat's first-round upset win, relieved of his duties as the top-ranked Milwaukee Bucks' boss in the aftermath despite bringing home the 2021 title and 271 wins over the past five years, far and away the most in the NBA. Up north, 2019 champion Nick Nurse was bid adieu by the Toronto Raptors, leaving three of the last four championship-winning NBA Finals-winning head coaches (along with 2020 O'Brien Trophy hoister and L.A. victim Frank Vogel) unemployed.

The Knicks have made no secret about trying to lure a superstar that would serve as the missing piece of their ticket to the Eastern Conference penthouse. One hesitates to use the word "process" in a hardwood sense considering the butchering the Knicks' division rivals in Philadelphia did the word, but overachieving in a year many expected to end in Play-In purgatory will make it tempting for the Knicks to draw their blueprints faster.

Could that mean ousting Thibodeau, who has proven capable of competing but not contending for a title in his years as an NBA boss, in favor of exiled coaches that have personally experienced that championship feeling?

Again, it shouldn't. Thibodeau has made the most out of his current surroundings that formed a far-from-complete championship picture. One can only imagine what he can do with a "complete" team, one that the Knicks have reportedly kept busy in forming while the series with the Heat blazes on.

Alas, impatience on the sidelines is far from uncommon in the cursed annals of Knicks history. Stu Jackson could tell you that, as his victorious postseason efforts at the age of 33 (winning 45 games and ousting Boston after Rick Pitino's voluntary departure in 1989-90) didn't save him from a 7-8 start and the eventual hire of Pat Riley. Jeff Hornacek, famous for the playoff-free 48-win season in Phoenix, has been apparently (and unfairly) blacklisted after he struggled to work through the cesspool that was 2010s Knicks basketball.

Even coaching legends aren't exempt: former all-time coaching wins leader Lenny Wilkens righted the Knicks' ship during the 2004-05 season but failed to last the ensuing campaign, resigning after management made it clear they'd side with Stephon Marbury and the island of misfit veterans. It was a process that would more or less repeat itself with Larry Brown the following year, though he was able to last a full season before he was fired.

One certainty lies in the path of Thibodeau and the Knicks, one that can silence any questioners and quell all doubts about the future: win.

That, of course, has proven elusive for Thibodeau's predecessors and there's hardly any guarantees, something he might be experiencing the hard way.

Geoff Magliocchetti is on Twitter @GeoffJMags

New coaches also mean disruption of the whole staff. Bud is a process guy, like Thibs.
Thibs has excelled two of his three years here. Year one off the charts and this year to get the 5th seed was also incredible.
Thibs really going to get fired by Leon? Why did Bud get fired BTW? Vogel? Nurse? They have chips but also underperformed too. Nurse had a damn good team when he got hired and Got Kawhi. Vogel Bubble Lebon and Davis did a good job with two HOF's. Bud loses to Nets (toe on the line) he gets fired two years ago. Like he got let go by ATL.
Bud is a good coach, not a miracle worker.
Curious what we run it back next year.

My take is Knicks losing to heat this series does not compare to Rangers scenario which the article basis originated.
There are some good points but I contend the clickbait title was cheap.

I highlighted a good question writer brings up which is does the blueprint change with this move to the second round?
One can imagine if he had a whole team, or did not start 10-13 but he did.
I cannot see beyond health issue he is not back next year. Recall the circus of coaching changes lead to a clown like culture that was the likely cause for players to not want to be here.
If Thibs is an impediment to free agent signing then perhaps a change is ok but im more inclined to let Johnny Bryant get his chance, not a starphuch retread from a one and done and got fired after.
That's the other major point.

blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:Didn’t thibs do this in the atl series? Switched up the starting lineup and put in drose as a starter and it backfired.

Grimes and this starting unit been together all season. Just because grimes got hurt he loses his starting role?

As soon as grimes was back, he should’ve started. As soon as Randle Brunson or RJ was back from injury they started.

My point is why now? Hart should’ve moved back to his normal roll when grimes was back and our bench unit would’ve looked a lot better than it has been.

Now our starting unit and bench unit look out of sync.

No it's cause Grimes is still probably hurt.

Well, according to rumors on twitter, Grimes camp is starting to use social media to free Grimes. I'm just saying! Heard about this on one of the knicks news outlets.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiL27bvg-b-AhVtkIkEHe4pAywQFnoECA0QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fnypost.com%2F2023%2F05%2F07%2Fquentin-grimes-apparent-manager-criticizes-usage-by-knicks%2F&usg=AOvVaw0G9LElp0MxxikyDSozwSs3

We need this Grimes
https://t.co/f3W8NXvVZq

Did you read what you posted?

Shortly after the tweets went viral on Sunday, the bio that referred to the user as Grimes’ manager was scrubbed from the account, although the tweets were not deleted.

Ok good. Don’t need any negative social media talk. What about the second clip? Does that guy even look like the same player? Grimes has more to give than what we are seeing in thibs offense or rotation scheme.

I think the first question is: why do you post stuff that you don't read that actually is the not relevant to what you are trying to post about?

You read a rumor, don't really read the article attached to it and then expect what?

Those are clips of Grimes from high school. Every NBA player has those, they make them all look really good, as they should. Why are they relevant? Cause now he plays in the NBA.

Or did you not watch those either?

Well I could’ve used clips from summer league or even better, clips from his nba games. But that doesn’t matter at this point. The question you can answer for me is simple. Assuming grimes is healthy, why isn’t he starting?

Regarding the link, I only posted the link because I can hear you as I was posting. Where’s the proof. So I got this information from another relevant and respected knick podcast. It was a discussion. As we know now, they used the same information and ran with the story. Guess it was verbal click bate.

I’ll say it again, glad it was click bate. Glad you cleaned that up. Still don’t know how you police this site all these years and still don’t allow any false news to stick very long. Great job man. You really should be compensated for this.

For me, I am assuming Grimes is not actually 100% healthy regardless of what anyone is telling the media. Contusion of his right shoulder.

My assumption is based on the fact that everyone in the front office as well as Thibs absolutely love Grimes. He did not even need to “earn” his starting position this year after getting hurt before season started, Fournier was just benched. Thankfully. As well, the Knicks FO was willing to include RJ over Grimes in the Donovan trade.

I know that Thibs loves Hart too but Thibs KNOWS Grimes is a better deep threat and is a very stout defender, not to mention that Hart is the perfect energy guy off bench (which I assume will be his role next year).

All things being equal, Grimes would be playing and starting if he was healthy IMHO.

I would add that there may also be a young player jitters thing going on with Grimes and IQ. Both have not been performing their norm.

Tough decisions all around

blkexec wrote:Starting Hart killed this team, and you can see it now. Our offense is too fragile and Thibs should’ve went with IQ to start. Or you start hart and when grimes was back you start him. Grimes misses opens the floor more than harts make or miss.

Thibs is a great coach but slow to adjust.

Let me slow down on thibs. Because if our bench showed up, we have a series. Miami and Spo are better than the Knicks and Thibs. Miami star player is better than Knicks star player. Miami bench is better.

Its true that this team needs an upgrade in personnel, but how succesfull will the FO be in attracting star talent. If the head coach is that unpopular? If Thibs is here next season, I guess we'll find out.

I hope coach Bud at least gets an interview.

GustavBahler wrote:Thibs has been consistently voted the least favorite coach to play for by NBA players. Consistently tops that survey. Going back years.

Its true that this team needs an upgrade in personnel, but how succesfull will the FO be in attracting star talent. If the head coach is that unpopular? If Thibs is here next season, I guess we'll find out.

I hope coach Bud at least gets an interview.

Thibs consistently gets votes for Coach of the Year too, twice now in his 3 years with the Knicks, wildly over-performing his team's expectations. Twice. And the Knicks attracted probably one of the best UFA's on the market and that guy over performed for the team.

I'd say it more than meets your expectations quite frankly, if you actually look at it correctly.