nixluva wrote:

dk7th wrote:melo has tunnelvision and is lacking in imagination, guile, savvy, versatility. the coach is a knucklehead for not teaching him how to play the right way. and if it isn't the coach then guess what the guy is uncoachable. where was the adjustment, the adaptability, the cohesion, the resilience?

nowhere.

let me guess: his supporting cast didn't step up.

It's clear to all of us that Melo has his flaws. Despite those flaws the Knicks were in fact a 2nd rd playoff team. To win a title we do in fact have to look at the supporting cast. That's were the team failed the most. Melo had to rely on Felton and JR as the next 2 players providing the teams scoring.

The goal of Grunwald and Woodson is to build a team and a scheme that will limit those flaws and maximize his strengths as a player. In fact they have to do that with all of the players on the team. This is why adding players that fit around Melo is important. They actually have been doing a good job of that so far, but they needed to make even further improvements to the roster to make it work even better. Last year we saw how we could make it work with the style we played to start the year. The problem was that we couldn't sustain that due to the players we had not being up to the challenge. Now they were able to learn a lot from last year and this helped them to see what worked and what didn't and what pieces they needed to add.

The Knicks have made additions to try and fix some of the issues this team had last year. Of course with the limited resources they had we weren't going to see any big names, but they did a good job given what they had to work with. Bargnani, Udrih, MWP, KMart, JR, Prigs, THJ, CJ & Tyler wasn't a bad haul for this summer. We don't know if this is good enough to get to the ECF's, but it's not a bad effort. IMO this roster can compete with anyone in the NBA. IMO it's a better roster than last year's team. Bargnani was a steal because of what we gave up and what he can mean to the team. His presence can help Melo and the rest of the team to get to the next level. It would've made a difference if he was there last year, so there's no reason not to think he can help this roster which is even better.

In my opinion, judging from the 2 starters with FELTON and Tyson Chandler Woodson selected, Woodson is not on the same page as Grunwald
Woodson is looking to allow Melo to give the opportunity to get MONSTER STATS in ISO situations, boosting his resume for the end of the season to justify a max/near max contract extension

This "players" coach is looking to build SUPER HEROES and not BASKETBALL PLAYERS and I would have fired him or at least demoted him
He simply doesn't have creativity and is way too stubborn, at the very least adding better assistant coaches like Woodson was signed for Dantoni, we need to add coaching talent to make up for Woodson

Don't give me this 54 win, Atlantic crap, we were horrible with no gameplans/direction/philosophy when it counted most, in the play offs
Whether this is on Woodson or Melo/JR it doesn't matter, because either Woodson prefers ISO or has no control on the team with Melo/JR calling the shots
They had no problem consistently shooting 30 shots each if they were really injured, so I don't buy that crap

You can say all you want about the talent we added, like Tyson Chandler/Iman said, we WON'T win playing ISO BALL period (not in the playoffs when the DEFENSE tunes up with CONTENDERS)
Woodson must realize this and Melo, while correcting the mistakes of Melo/JR vs enabling them, unfortunately, it is 10 years too late and STATS make a difference in the final "BIG CONTRACT"

It is always Melo's way or no other way, his entire career....

In my opinion, the strengths of this team is versatility/depth, with the ability to create mismatches, to utilize these strengths to its max potential, we must play with different starting lineups/rotations/philosophies vs different match ups, however with Woodson as our coach and the BB IQ of the top options on our team, I just don't see it happening
All players must be sacrificing for the better of the team, unfortunately, it is coming on Melo's contract year and he will be looking to get what Cp3, D12, Deron, Lebron, Durant, all got because that is where he puts himself

Out of all these players Melo does not make his team mates better, is an average defender at best, is not a leader, and that is the problem

Paul George has no EGO issues and that is why he will continue to develop and get better with his potential
He is willing to sacrifice for the better of the team and has the ability to step up and carry the team when needed

Why would they not be on the same page?

Why the need to portray discord?

we must play with different starting lineups/rotations/philosophies vs different match ups, however with Woodson as our coach and the BB IQ of the top options on our team, I just don't see it happening

What does this word salad mean in understandable basketball terms?

we must play with different starting lineups/rotations/philosophies vs different match ups

Huh?

Are you suggesting changing starting lineups based on the opponent?

dk7th - to imply Mike Woodson is going into then season with a bias against playing his best players the most minutes is intellectually dishonest and you know it

knickscity wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Here I thought the two point guard system was due to health

Health would be the last reason to play the 2 pg guard system.

Woody enjoys the small lineup, but it's mainly due to felton not cutting the mustard.

Swap him with a fully competent pg and there would be no need for 2 on the floor at the same time.

the crazy part is Felton winds up playing as the 2 with another pg on the floor.

true it is really crazy.

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knickscity wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Here I thought the two point guard system was due to health

Health would be the last reason to play the 2 pg guard system.

Woody enjoys the small lineup, but it's mainly due to felton not cutting the mustard.

Swap him with a fully competent pg and there would be no need for 2 on the floor at the same time.

the crazy part is Felton winds up playing as the 2 with another pg on the floor.

true it is really crazy.

I am wondering if it was the circumstance of the roster at the beginning of the year and its success that had more to do with keeping with 2 PG lineup than anything. Day 1 roster: Tyson, Melo, Brewer, Felton, JR, Kidd, Kurt, Novak, Cope, Prigs, White, Camby, Sheed.

No suitable PF's and an excess of guards. Kidd was on fire the first month or so as was Brewer.

I think it had to do with roster more than Felton.

Yes those were the circumstances. But it was soon clear that having Kidd or Prigioni out there was the best circumstance for success.

This year I believe that Shumpert has to be pencilled in as a starter if only because he is the only competent backcourt defender. But he is far from a playmaker right now so you have to have a genuine orchestrator at the other backcourt position.

Woodson is up against it with managing a lot of different egos, circumstantially. And at the same time he has to do what is best for the team.

Cohesion is paramount since that leads to resilience. Felton is not a sufficient orchestrator and his defense is below par as it is. Why does he automatically get to start?

Equally important is a solid defense. Shumpert, Artest (if he still has it) and Chandler (if his neck is healed) should be getting priority minutes-wise.

nixluva wrote:The truth is that we beat the crap out of teams with the 2 PG lineup. The thing that killed us was the fact that we wore down at the end. The way the team was winning was reliant on everyone doing their part. The Knicks had a bunch of issues with health that started to add up. Woody pushed so hard to win the Division and we lost guys at the end. Kidd was done. JR broke down physically and mentally. Felton who was the teams 3rd leading scorer had an 0 for 7 and a 1 for 8 game in 2 Pacers series losses. Tyson also wore down. Melo had the shoulder issues. There were a lot of things that caught up with the Knicks in the Pacers series. We started to see it in the Celtics series and it got worse in the Pacers series. We needed more healthy bodies and the team peaked too soon. In addition to that Woody made some critical mistakes as well.

Woody has to learn from his mistakes and the team needed to be strengthened for the long 82 game season. The roster has been upgraded. Now we have to see if Woody has learned from the things he did wrong last year and makes the proper adjustments. There was a very good start to the season in terms of the style of play, so I think Woody will look to repeat that this year in terms of ball and player movement. The difference will be the roster is much better to start this year than it was last year. More skill and younger bodies. This is a better version of last years team. It's more capable of executing what Woody started to do last year to start the year.

Anji wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:It's funny that posters are complaining about his stubborness and lack of ingenuity on offense but are over looking that he went against what he was planning and kept what work. Does he need to be less stubborn yes but he is not as rigid as some are making it seem

The goal going into camp was not to play 2 pgs but a traditional line up but health prevented that so in step Kidd. The two pg line up had more to do with Brewer, white, and Shump being hurt. Also, the need for some bench scoring so Jr was kept as the 6th man.

Felton assist were good(not great) until his injury, but he was still the primary initiator on most possessions. I am going over the games again and am noticing a lot more about this offense.

Good post, it is funny how so many things are so bad, yet we still had a very good year last season.

the team needs to be a true playoff contender and the knicks for all their 50-odd wins remained a very sketchy team, meaning that they lacked identity, cohesion and ultimately resilience.

i would prefer that woodson look at the medium and long term for this team next season, meaning what he can envision as the best playoff team of starters. some players-- such as shumpert-- need to be given the opportunity to grow over the course of the season even if it means losing a few more games. other players-- such as prigioni or udrih-- need to be given an opportunity to run the team. yes it risks alienating felton but a true pro only wants what is best for the team and felton has shown a sulkiness when demoted, even when it is clear he is being outplayed.

the team needs to be a true playoff contender and the knicks for all their 50-odd wins remained a very sketchy team, meaning that they lacked identity, cohesion and ultimately resilience.

We lack an answer for Roy Hibbert.

This so-called "sketchy" team was the number one reason for the dismantling of the Boston Celtics roster and departure of their head coach, the much-celebrated Doc Rivers.

That's a good enough happy dance good thing to build on for 2013.

Release the hounds!