Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:I dont judge players out context. I can easily say that Amare only won because he played with one of the top PG's of all time (and the most efficient). That would be as dumb as you stating a record out of context. But I have come to expect crap like this out of you and I am ok with it.

I judge players by how they are doing now and what we can expect from them next year.

PHX offered Amare 60 million. The knicks offered 100 million. No other teams made offers. What does that tell you? Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh- errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr - ehhhhhhhhhh. Melo SUX and is a loser! Huh? Did that just pop out?

If Melo became an FA, any and every team would try to get that LOSER if they could.

Have a nice day!

not at the "RIDICULOUS" price we paid....

and 100 million for Amare was not "RIDICULOUS"? If not, where were the other non-ridiculous offers? How many teams would have offered Melo max money as an FA? ALL who could!

I think the Knicks over paid at the time. But now that all the flip floppers have jumped off the Felton bandwagon, I don't think it was as bad - LMFAO!!!!! I do however miss THE MOZ!

In all seriousness, I was the most upset about Chandler - I really liked him here. He has yet to prove me right.

In all seriousness both gallo and chandler are very good players who are not even close to their prime yet.. along with the first and second round picks, giving away anthony randolph and throwing in the huge expiring of curry, we paid a KINGS ransom....

I would straight up trade this entire team for the nuggets roster right now... and when you look at it, almost half of those guys were knicks just a couple of years ago. It kind of gets to me, you know...

I didn't like giving amare 100 mil, but in all fairness, he pretty much came as advertised, played MVP ball the first few months and honestly, had a team of pretty young players playing above .500... how many times do you see players like amare(allstar talent, but not superstar) leading a team of guys like that and they usually are horrible.... I give amare credit for that, plus amare has been part of a winning culture in pheonix, one in which he was one of the teams best performers... but the 100 mil contract was just money, and what I mean is that amare came without the additional cost of young players and first round picks.

Half of them? The only ones who really played (last year) was Gallo and Moz. And Chandler was a FA so he would have not been retained. They did give up too much but only because they could have gotten away with paying less. Curry's expiring was certainly valuable. AR was/is worthless. I would have certainly rather have waited for FAgency if we could. I would have also liked Deron instead but I am not if that would have been the correct decision based on what I have seen from Deron in NJ but I am not sold yet either way.

Amare played below expectations so far. Far below. He had a great half personally though the team was only 28-26 to that point and sliding fast. Outside of that he has been extremely underwhelming.

It was also nice to be part of a winning culture that included the one and only Steve Nash. Marion, JJ, JRich and the rest of them were pretty freakin good too. Put him on a team with no PG and OUCH!! That does not mean he was not talented but he needed a PG to elevate his game. How would he have done if PHX replaced Nash with an old AI or another mediocre player?

Just because we overpaid for Melo does not make me hate him. He is still a solid player who with the right team can be a dominant contributor. As was the case for Paul Pierce.

Melo is not an orchestrator like Lebron or MJ and will never be. He is a dominant scorer that needs an orchestrator. Every team needs that type of leader. That is why I wish we could have gotten Chris Paul or at that point - DWil. We all saw how great Melo was in the olympics when surrounded by talented.

Now, Melo has to improve his shot selection, be less selfish and play consistent defense. I am not blind to his deficiencies. He should be held accountable for that. But I won't blindly hate him for it and believe he can improve on that.

This season will be very enlightening.

i GUESS I view things differently, I think amare has been as advertised until we make the trade to bring carmelo here and his game has not been the same..

As far as the denver team go, what I mean is that they have half of our players.. they now have AR, gallo, chandler, moz, heck even corey brewer is there I think.. LOL

Just because we overpaid for Melo does not make me hate him

true, that makes me dislike dolan.. I dislike carmelo for other reasons...

He is a dominant scorer that needs an orchestrator. Every team needs that type of leader. That is why I wish we could have gotten Chris Paul or at that point - DWil. We all saw how great Melo was in the olympics when surrounded by talented.

I think melo is a very good scorer and a GREat streak scorer.. not dominant.. sorry, there is really nothing that supports that.... I do agree that I wish we had gotten paul or d-wil, but that would have been instead of melo. Look everyone looks great on the olympic team, especially when going against lesser talent most of the time, but you can't fill your NBA team with guys like lebron, wade and kobe, and if you could, why would you need carmelo?

basically what you are saying about carmelo is what I can say about a lot of good all star players... that is fine, but those are not the guys you build around and disrupt your franchise for.. that is my problem.. that's all...

But I won't blindly hate him for it and believe he can improve on that.

that is fine, but odd that after 10 years you expect him to make those changes, but lin was pretty much finished after the miami game....

This season will be very enlightening.

for some it will be, for me, it will be different because I will be following a couple of other teams a bit closer, and I will be more of a spectator with these knicks, although I will root for them to win no doubt.... If you want to use enlightening, I can go with that for now...

Amare's game (and the team) was in decline before Melo got here. And, hey were 12-16 pre trade and 14-14 post trade.

As far as Denvers Knick players, Brewer was not part of the trade (not that you are suggesting this) but I was extremely pissed about that fiasco. He played very meaningful minutes on both Dallas and Denver. AR is AR, Chandler was not going to be resigned and Gallo and Moz were contributors. We don't necessarily disagree about the trade and overpaying though.

Numbers wise, Melo was/is as (nearly (for arguments sake)) dominant of a scorer as Kobe is/was. He is a lesser player but as far as scorer, the numbers do not lie.

Melo looked better than great/everyone on the olympic team. Tyson did not look good on the olympic team.

Melo is in the league of PP. Do you build your team around him? Not sure. But, it all depends on the alternative.\

Melo can change just like PP did when he was coached correctly and was surrounded by supreme talent. He also averaged 3.6 assist last year better than his career average of 3.0. I would like to see it go over 4.0.

I never said that Lin was finished after the Miami game. I did say that they exposed a weakness. He was certainly a contributor in later games.

You have the right as a fan to follow who you want as I have always said, I at least appreciate your honesty and candor.

don't try to oversell pierce having "supreme talent" around him.. rofl, that is such a sorry attempt.. he had good talent around him, good mature talent that fit, but not supreme talent.. come on man.. stop trying to validate carmelo so much.... I am not even sure he is as good as pierce is/ was, plus they are two different players... pierce style allowed him to mesh with various talents....

carmelo did well playing with the elite of the league, unless we are adding kobe, lebron and durant I am not sure I can apply any thing melo did in the olympics to the knicks..

Anyone validating Amare all the time should not preach about validating.

Rondo, Garnett and Allen were excellent players around PP. When did Melo have that? How did KG and PP do without each other/team? Nuff said.

Melo is better than PP IMHO but they are similar. PP's style allowed him to Mesh with THOSE guys. And a good coach.

No great team do great without a great orchestrator (few exception). Melo will certainly lack that as he did every year other than the time with Billups.

YOU ARE ALSO overseling my defense of amare.. please give it up... amare is really not the issue here as he is expendable to me as well on this team...

rondo, garnett and allen when they joined the celtics were no longer elite players(garnett and allen) rondo was still a young player learning.. come on now..

Why is the argument for melo always "when did he ever have this or that".. maybe part of the problem is that teams are paying this guy like max player and he is not....maybe teams should stop building around him , your excuses sure do lend itself to that conclusion..

No great team do great without a great orchestrator

agreed to some extent... so again I ask, why do you and others defend the fleecing of our teams assets to bring this guy here?

Do you read posts or do you just skim through it? Mr. Knickshot and myself have said numerous times that we gave up a bit much for Melo. It would have been great if we could have signed him as a FA. Didn't happen, blame Dolan. For some reason, you take out your angst on Melo for the trade when it was Dolan that pulled the trigger. You take out your angst on Melo for the trading of your boy Gallo, when we all know (except for you apparently) that it was Dolan and staff who moved Gallo, not Melo himself.

MELO IS NO innocent bystander,he forced his way here instead of waiting because he wanted to get paid... he knew the knicks would have to trade almost every asset they had.. this is just not on dolan....

I find it funny how you guys keep bringing gallo up, yet i haven't mentioned his name once... it is like the classic, I don't have anything to contribute to this debate, so I will do the usual drive by random, irrelevant comment act...... getting kind of old man..

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:I dont judge players out context. I can easily say that Amare only won because he played with one of the top PG's of all time (and the most efficient). That would be as dumb as you stating a record out of context. But I have come to expect crap like this out of you and I am ok with it.

I judge players by how they are doing now and what we can expect from them next year.

PHX offered Amare 60 million. The knicks offered 100 million. No other teams made offers. What does that tell you? Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh- errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr - ehhhhhhhhhh. Melo SUX and is a loser! Huh? Did that just pop out?

If Melo became an FA, any and every team would try to get that LOSER if they could.

Have a nice day!

not at the "RIDICULOUS" price we paid....

and 100 million for Amare was not "RIDICULOUS"? If not, where were the other non-ridiculous offers? How many teams would have offered Melo max money as an FA? ALL who could!

I think the Knicks over paid at the time. But now that all the flip floppers have jumped off the Felton bandwagon, I don't think it was as bad - LMFAO!!!!! I do however miss THE MOZ!

In all seriousness, I was the most upset about Chandler - I really liked him here. He has yet to prove me right.

In all seriousness both gallo and chandler are very good players who are not even close to their prime yet.. along with the first and second round picks, giving away anthony randolph and throwing in the huge expiring of curry, we paid a KINGS ransom....

I would straight up trade this entire team for the nuggets roster right now... and when you look at it, almost half of those guys were knicks just a couple of years ago. It kind of gets to me, you know...

I didn't like giving amare 100 mil, but in all fairness, he pretty much came as advertised, played MVP ball the first few months and honestly, had a team of pretty young players playing above .500... how many times do you see players like amare(allstar talent, but not superstar) leading a team of guys like that and they usually are horrible.... I give amare credit for that, plus amare has been part of a winning culture in pheonix, one in which he was one of the teams best performers... but the 100 mil contract was just money, and what I mean is that amare came without the additional cost of young players and first round picks.

Half of them? The only ones who really played (last year) was Gallo and Moz. And Chandler was a FA so he would have not been retained. They did give up too much but only because they could have gotten away with paying less. Curry's expiring was certainly valuable. AR was/is worthless. I would have certainly rather have waited for FAgency if we could. I would have also liked Deron instead but I am not if that would have been the correct decision based on what I have seen from Deron in NJ but I am not sold yet either way.

Amare played below expectations so far. Far below. He had a great half personally though the team was only 28-26 to that point and sliding fast. Outside of that he has been extremely underwhelming.

It was also nice to be part of a winning culture that included the one and only Steve Nash. Marion, JJ, JRich and the rest of them were pretty freakin good too. Put him on a team with no PG and OUCH!! That does not mean he was not talented but he needed a PG to elevate his game. How would he have done if PHX replaced Nash with an old AI or another mediocre player?

Just because we overpaid for Melo does not make me hate him. He is still a solid player who with the right team can be a dominant contributor. As was the case for Paul Pierce.

Melo is not an orchestrator like Lebron or MJ and will never be. He is a dominant scorer that needs an orchestrator. Every team needs that type of leader. That is why I wish we could have gotten Chris Paul or at that point - DWil. We all saw how great Melo was in the olympics when surrounded by talented.

Now, Melo has to improve his shot selection, be less selfish and play consistent defense. I am not blind to his deficiencies. He should be held accountable for that. But I won't blindly hate him for it and believe he can improve on that.

This season will be very enlightening.

i GUESS I view things differently, I think amare has been as advertised until we make the trade to bring carmelo here and his game has not been the same..

As far as the denver team go, what I mean is that they have half of our players.. they now have AR, gallo, chandler, moz, heck even corey brewer is there I think.. LOL

Just because we overpaid for Melo does not make me hate him

true, that makes me dislike dolan.. I dislike carmelo for other reasons...

He is a dominant scorer that needs an orchestrator. Every team needs that type of leader. That is why I wish we could have gotten Chris Paul or at that point - DWil. We all saw how great Melo was in the olympics when surrounded by talented.

I think melo is a very good scorer and a GREat streak scorer.. not dominant.. sorry, there is really nothing that supports that.... I do agree that I wish we had gotten paul or d-wil, but that would have been instead of melo. Look everyone looks great on the olympic team, especially when going against lesser talent most of the time, but you can't fill your NBA team with guys like lebron, wade and kobe, and if you could, why would you need carmelo?

basically what you are saying about carmelo is what I can say about a lot of good all star players... that is fine, but those are not the guys you build around and disrupt your franchise for.. that is my problem.. that's all...

But I won't blindly hate him for it and believe he can improve on that.

that is fine, but odd that after 10 years you expect him to make those changes, but lin was pretty much finished after the miami game....

This season will be very enlightening.

for some it will be, for me, it will be different because I will be following a couple of other teams a bit closer, and I will be more of a spectator with these knicks, although I will root for them to win no doubt.... If you want to use enlightening, I can go with that for now...

Amare's game (and the team) was in decline before Melo got here. And, hey were 12-16 pre trade and 14-14 post trade.

As far as Denvers Knick players, Brewer was not part of the trade (not that you are suggesting this) but I was extremely pissed about that fiasco. He played very meaningful minutes on both Dallas and Denver. AR is AR, Chandler was not going to be resigned and Gallo and Moz were contributors. We don't necessarily disagree about the trade and overpaying though.

Numbers wise, Melo was/is as (nearly (for arguments sake)) dominant of a scorer as Kobe is/was. He is a lesser player but as far as scorer, the numbers do not lie.

Melo looked better than great/everyone on the olympic team. Tyson did not look good on the olympic team.

Melo is in the league of PP. Do you build your team around him? Not sure. But, it all depends on the alternative.\

Melo can change just like PP did when he was coached correctly and was surrounded by supreme talent. He also averaged 3.6 assist last year better than his career average of 3.0. I would like to see it go over 4.0.

I never said that Lin was finished after the Miami game. I did say that they exposed a weakness. He was certainly a contributor in later games.

You have the right as a fan to follow who you want as I have always said, I at least appreciate your honesty and candor.

don't try to oversell pierce having "supreme talent" around him.. rofl, that is such a sorry attempt.. he had good talent around him, good mature talent that fit, but not supreme talent.. come on man.. stop trying to validate carmelo so much.... I am not even sure he is as good as pierce is/ was, plus they are two different players... pierce style allowed him to mesh with various talents....

carmelo did well playing with the elite of the league, unless we are adding kobe, lebron and durant I am not sure I can apply any thing melo did in the olympics to the knicks..

Anyone validating Amare all the time should not preach about validating.

Rondo, Garnett and Allen were excellent players around PP. When did Melo have that? How did KG and PP do without each other/team? Nuff said.

Melo is better than PP IMHO but they are similar. PP's style allowed him to Mesh with THOSE guys. And a good coach.

No great team do great without a great orchestrator (few exception). Melo will certainly lack that as he did every year other than the time with Billups.

YOU ARE ALSO overseling my defense of amare.. please give it up... amare is really not the issue here as he is expendable to me as well on this team...

rondo, garnett and allen when they joined the celtics were no longer elite players(garnett and allen) rondo was still a young player learning.. come on now..

Why is the argument for melo always "when did he ever have this or that".. maybe part of the problem is that teams are paying this guy like max player and he is not....maybe teams should stop building around him , your excuses sure do lend itself to that conclusion..

No great team do great without a great orchestrator

agreed to some extent... so again I ask, why do you and others defend the fleecing of our teams assets to bring this guy here?

Do you read posts or do you just skim through it? Mr. Knickshot and myself have said numerous times that we gave up a bit much for Melo. It would have been great if we could have signed him as a FA. Didn't happen, blame Dolan. For some reason, you take out your angst on Melo for the trade when it was Dolan that pulled the trigger. You take out your angst on Melo for the trading of your boy Gallo, when we all know (except for you apparently) that it was Dolan and staff who moved Gallo, not Melo himself.

MELO IS NO innocent bystander,he forced his way here instead of waiting because he wanted to get paid... he knew the knicks would have to trade almost every asset they had.. this is just not on dolan....

I find it funny how you guys keep bringing gallo up, yet i haven't mentioned his name once... it is like the classic, I don't have anything to contribute to this debate, so I will do the usual drive by random, irrelevant comment act...... getting kind of old man..

The discussion was the impact of pg's, and Lin. Speaking of getting old, you are the one who dragged Melo into this convo

mrKnickShot wrote:
tkf wrote:
NUPE wrote:
tkf wrote:

ALL TOP TIER PG's destroy each other.. what is your point?

Please show me videos of Deron Willians, Rondo and CP3 getting stripped by a simple 1v1 full court or half court press multiple times in the same game this past season. This is an extreme problem. The fact that you kids poo poo this is laughable and ridiculous.

extreme problem? other than that game vs miami, where else has that happened? I think the only thing here that is extreme, is your criticism of lin.. full sour grapes mode bro..

It would have been nice or a better gauge if Lin shot better than 34% against > .500 competition.

the most important stats is 8-1.. he saved the knicks season. he was dynamic and capture the NBA world.....
useless stats do you no favors here. .in the end, the key is to win, get your guys out on top.... that requires a lot of leadership.. which is why the knicks have stunk for years, no leadership, doesn't matter if you can dunk out of your mind, wear headbands or call yourself the "best pure scorer" rofl.. just win baby.. .win.. lin did that...

tkf wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Nalod wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

muhaha wrote:First let me get this fact correctly: Knicks signed Felton BEFORE the deadline to match Houston's contract!
http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/jeremy-lin-deadline-approaches-raymond-felton-officially-a-knick-1.3841893

LOL@ all the people who agreed with everything Knicks FO did this off season.
Dolan's propaganda machine got some of you brainwashed! Why is Lin's contract an issue with the fans? Team is already over the cap the third year, with or without Lin's contract. It means, by signing Lin, the only thing that's affecting is Dolan's pocket. Unless you are his bookkeeper, it shouldnt be a concern for you! Cable and ticket prices wont drop because of not signing Lin.
- Second hight average ticket price in NBA
- One playoff win in the last 20 years
- One of the biggest fan bases in NBA
Should Dolan pay 45 some million for Lin in the 3rd year? Fvck yeah he should.

Why is Novak 15 million contract not an issue?
He was picked off waver last year.
He can't create his own shots.
He will never be affective without a PG who can drive and dish.
He can't defend.
He is a veteran who already reached his potential.
Lin costs 1 million more than Novak for the next two years.
Did you guy forget how he played against Miami in the playoff????????

For one lousy 3rd-year, fans cast Lin under the bus....praise to Dolan's propaganda machine! Objective achieved!

Oh yeah, BTW I totally agree that 25-game is not enough of a sample size, but that one game against Miami......

GREAT post.. I mentioned that before and no one wanted to touch on that...

Novak is the best 3pt shooter in the NBA and received a 4 year deal for $15 mil with his highest salary of a little over $4 million coming this season. He will make less than $4 million for the next 3 years of the deal. Novak costs the Knicks $2 million less over the next 2 seasons and $10 million less over the life of the contracts.

THankfully we have a PG who can get Novak the ball. He may not be able to create his own shot off the dribble but he can pump fake himself into a long range 2 from time to time. He didn't play well against Miami but he did play better in the playoffs than Lin did.

WHERE are all of the videos of novak getting shut down vs the heat? why not post that.. we are paying him 4 mil after he got cut from the spurs.. and get this.. his best ball and emergence came during linsanity...

Your argument is tainted with homerism to the ^50000, jeremy lin in a PG dominated league, or a guard dominated league is not overpaid at 24 mil or 28 mil over 4 years.... even if lin averages 14/6, that is still comparable pay.. look at what kyle lowry got from the rockets.. 24 mil...

novak is getting 15 mil over 4 years, and he is no mike miller, he is strictly a one trick pony, he isn't even shane battier. Novak doesn't defend at all.. Now I like novak, but clearly he is better in an open offense, when the ball is pushed and the defense is scrambling, he is killer.. in this half court give melo the ball, iso, jab step, jabstep, fake, spin, fake, jab step, then shoot.. he is going to be standing still and good athletic teams( like you find in the playoffs) will be able to close out on him...

again, this bashing of lin, because he is no longer here is blind homerism!

Novak's deal with the Knicks is the reason I say If Lin wanted to be here, how could have gotten a decent deal from the Knicks...If Novak fot 3.8 mil over 4 yrs..Lin could have gotten 5-6 over 4 as well....He didn't want to be here...He and his agent upped the final year to make it difficult for the Knicks to resign him....

Knicks would have matched the first offer. They telegraphed that for weeks. Told the world that. I doubt the knicks anticipated that Rockets would come in with that poison pill. Not the agent, not Lin, but Rockets.

My point is KNicks never made an offer or had an agreement. Could have shook hands on a deal and said if we get the bird rights, we'll give you 5 per year for 4 years, or what ever. They told him to get a number. So Lin got a number. A big number. MOFO came back with 15mm big old egg! Lin came home with a boatload that musta made Dolan crap his pants, get pale and sweat. Somewhere charles his fathter come wheeling in with his wheel chair, cane across his legs and slams the cane a the back of LIttle Man Jimmy and yells "greedy little turd, you managed to screw that one up too!" The little man gets a freaking gift from the gods in the form of Lin and he messed it up. How do you do that? A gift? Dumb luck! What ever. Knicks Failed.

Here is what we know: Knicks wanted him. Telegraphed it for weeks, made a spectacle of the LA dinner and had woodson tell the world he was our dog.

End result for what ever reason: Lin don't come back thus we failed. Simple. We told season ticket subscribers to reup and Lin is your pg of the future. Young kids crying about a kNick leaving. IN the Face of the Brooklyn Nets encroaching on the turf the Knicks told the world you got Lin, and simply failed without a word from management. No apology, no explaination. Just Charles Dolan beating down his loser son in the mansion of shame his son lives in.

Naturally we got homers to trying to justify the fail? You gotta be kidding me. Good thing y'all were not around when we traded Clyde to CLeveland to compensate them for our signing Jim Cleamons. Im sure you would have "good riddence Clyde! Getting too old!" kind of crap and do the "Sour Grapes" act homers are good at. Y'all would have booed willis, called Debusschere a community pick, called Bradley a WASP, and Holzmans ball sharing offense some "Socialistic Jew conspiracy" thing to keep Earls shot count down!

I hope he tears it the Phuch up! Not to spite us, just because I like the kid! Linsanity was cool not because he was asian, because he was clutch! He is still a work in progress. Sometimes you overpay for potential. Ooops, this is the Knick homer land were you overpay for the past performance.

Some of you homers talk as if the season already happend and we won 55 games.

NObody will enjoy that more than me but those games still have to be played.

Knicks take care of business then Lin, Gallo, Mozzy, or Shy Wilson is not an issue. Win and enjoy a good starphuch. Lose and be accountable for the Starphuching Dolan keeps giving you.

Dude, you really got some serious issues. Reading this post, you are nothing more than an instigator, calling people "Homers" and "Apologists" etc. Most everyone here wanted to retain Lin and yet you call them names, because they offer their view about what might have transpired during the negotiations.....or they offer a rational discussion and analysis of how the new CBA Tax situation plays into this. You condemn Dolan for making bad financial decisions in the past, and also condemn him in this case for exhibiting fiscal restraint. That is called hypocracy. You label this a Fail, yet do not know for sure if this is a "fail" since no one knows yet how Lin will perform nor how the Knicks will perform without him.

Lin could become All NBA by Year 3 and play at a Rondo level..... that's what it would take to justify his contract. In that case it is a fail for the Knicks.

then again....

Lin's knee might not hold up to a season's worth of pounding and could become arthritic and degenerative.
Defensive schemes adjust to Lin and he does not adjust adequately and performs to a much lesser level than his 25 game audition.

In the latter case, I suspect you will not come back on here and post that you were a "fail" and Dolan and all the people you called "Homers" and "Apologists" were right. The reason I suspect this is that you are still holding onto Gallo, Moz and Chandler....who have done nothing of note since leaving the Knicks.....as a condemnation of Dolan and the Knicks organization.

lol.. really? so much pressure on an undrafted player... tell me, what has carmelo done to justify his contract which is 4x that of lins? he never made all nba first team.... and we are talking about a lotter pick here..... how has he justified 20 mil?

knickscity wrote:

tkf wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Nalod wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

muhaha wrote:First let me get this fact correctly: Knicks signed Felton BEFORE the deadline to match Houston's contract!
http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/jeremy-lin-deadline-approaches-raymond-felton-officially-a-knick-1.3841893

LOL@ all the people who agreed with everything Knicks FO did this off season.
Dolan's propaganda machine got some of you brainwashed! Why is Lin's contract an issue with the fans? Team is already over the cap the third year, with or without Lin's contract. It means, by signing Lin, the only thing that's affecting is Dolan's pocket. Unless you are his bookkeeper, it shouldnt be a concern for you! Cable and ticket prices wont drop because of not signing Lin.
- Second hight average ticket price in NBA
- One playoff win in the last 20 years
- One of the biggest fan bases in NBA
Should Dolan pay 45 some million for Lin in the 3rd year? Fvck yeah he should.

Why is Novak 15 million contract not an issue?
He was picked off waver last year.
He can't create his own shots.
He will never be affective without a PG who can drive and dish.
He can't defend.
He is a veteran who already reached his potential.
Lin costs 1 million more than Novak for the next two years.
Did you guy forget how he played against Miami in the playoff????????

For one lousy 3rd-year, fans cast Lin under the bus....praise to Dolan's propaganda machine! Objective achieved!

Oh yeah, BTW I totally agree that 25-game is not enough of a sample size, but that one game against Miami......

GREAT post.. I mentioned that before and no one wanted to touch on that...

Novak is the best 3pt shooter in the NBA and received a 4 year deal for $15 mil with his highest salary of a little over $4 million coming this season. He will make less than $4 million for the next 3 years of the deal. Novak costs the Knicks $2 million less over the next 2 seasons and $10 million less over the life of the contracts.

THankfully we have a PG who can get Novak the ball. He may not be able to create his own shot off the dribble but he can pump fake himself into a long range 2 from time to time. He didn't play well against Miami but he did play better in the playoffs than Lin did.

WHERE are all of the videos of novak getting shut down vs the heat? why not post that.. we are paying him 4 mil after he got cut from the spurs.. and get this.. his best ball and emergence came during linsanity...

Your argument is tainted with homerism to the ^50000, jeremy lin in a PG dominated league, or a guard dominated league is not overpaid at 24 mil or 28 mil over 4 years.... even if lin averages 14/6, that is still comparable pay.. look at what kyle lowry got from the rockets.. 24 mil...

novak is getting 15 mil over 4 years, and he is no mike miller, he is strictly a one trick pony, he isn't even shane battier. Novak doesn't defend at all.. Now I like novak, but clearly he is better in an open offense, when the ball is pushed and the defense is scrambling, he is killer.. in this half court give melo the ball, iso, jab step, jabstep, fake, spin, fake, jab step, then shoot.. he is going to be standing still and good athletic teams( like you find in the playoffs) will be able to close out on him...

again, this bashing of lin, because he is no longer here is blind homerism!

Novak's deal with the Knicks is the reason I say If Lin wanted to be here, how could have gotten a decent deal from the Knicks...If Novak fot 3.8 mil over 4 yrs..Lin could have gotten 5-6 over 4 as well....He didn't want to be here...He and his agent upped the final year to make it difficult for the Knicks to resign him....

Knicks would have matched the first offer. They telegraphed that for weeks. Told the world that. I doubt the knicks anticipated that Rockets would come in with that poison pill. Not the agent, not Lin, but Rockets.

My point is KNicks never made an offer or had an agreement. Could have shook hands on a deal and said if we get the bird rights, we'll give you 5 per year for 4 years, or what ever. They told him to get a number. So Lin got a number. A big number. MOFO came back with 15mm big old egg! Lin came home with a boatload that musta made Dolan crap his pants, get pale and sweat. Somewhere charles his fathter come wheeling in with his wheel chair, cane across his legs and slams the cane a the back of LIttle Man Jimmy and yells "greedy little turd, you managed to screw that one up too!" The little man gets a freaking gift from the gods in the form of Lin and he messed it up. How do you do that? A gift? Dumb luck! What ever. Knicks Failed.

Here is what we know: Knicks wanted him. Telegraphed it for weeks, made a spectacle of the LA dinner and had woodson tell the world he was our dog.

End result for what ever reason: Lin don't come back thus we failed. Simple. We told season ticket subscribers to reup and Lin is your pg of the future. Young kids crying about a kNick leaving. IN the Face of the Brooklyn Nets encroaching on the turf the Knicks told the world you got Lin, and simply failed without a word from management. No apology, no explaination. Just Charles Dolan beating down his loser son in the mansion of shame his son lives in.

Naturally we got homers to trying to justify the fail? You gotta be kidding me. Good thing y'all were not around when we traded Clyde to CLeveland to compensate them for our signing Jim Cleamons. Im sure you would have "good riddence Clyde! Getting too old!" kind of crap and do the "Sour Grapes" act homers are good at. Y'all would have booed willis, called Debusschere a community pick, called Bradley a WASP, and Holzmans ball sharing offense some "Socialistic Jew conspiracy" thing to keep Earls shot count down!

I hope he tears it the Phuch up! Not to spite us, just because I like the kid! Linsanity was cool not because he was asian, because he was clutch! He is still a work in progress. Sometimes you overpay for potential. Ooops, this is the Knick homer land were you overpay for the past performance.

Some of you homers talk as if the season already happend and we won 55 games.

NObody will enjoy that more than me but those games still have to be played.

Knicks take care of business then Lin, Gallo, Mozzy, or Shy Wilson is not an issue. Win and enjoy a good starphuch. Lose and be accountable for the Starphuching Dolan keeps giving you.

Dude, you really got some serious issues. Reading this post, you are nothing more than an instigator, calling people "Homers" and "Apologists" etc. Most everyone here wanted to retain Lin and yet you call them names, because they offer their view about what might have transpired during the negotiations.....or they offer a rational discussion and analysis of how the new CBA Tax situation plays into this. You condemn Dolan for making bad financial decisions in the past, and also condemn him in this case for exhibiting fiscal restraint. That is called hypocracy. You label this a Fail, yet do not know for sure if this is a "fail" since no one knows yet how Lin will perform nor how the Knicks will perform without him.

Lin could become All NBA by Year 3 and play at a Rondo level..... that's what it would take to justify his contract. In that case it is a fail for the Knicks.

then again....

Lin's knee might not hold up to a season's worth of pounding and could become arthritic and degenerative.
Defensive schemes adjust to Lin and he does not adjust adequately and performs to a much lesser level than his 25 game audition.

In the latter case, I suspect you will not come back on here and post that you were a "fail" and Dolan and all the people you called "Homers" and "Apologists" were right. The reason I suspect this is that you are still holding onto Gallo, Moz and Chandler....who have done nothing of note since leaving the Knicks.....as a condemnation of Dolan and the Knicks organization.

lol.. really? so much pressure on an undrafted player... tell me, what has carmelo done to justify his contract which is 4x that of lins? he never made all nba first team.... and we are talking about a lotter pick here..... how has he justified 20 mil?

This is where the thread turned south, not surprised by the one who accomplished it.

actually it was a simple question, either answer it or run and complain about the conversation turning south, with is contributing to the conversation turning south... smh

knickscity wrote:

tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:

tkf wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Nalod wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

muhaha wrote:First let me get this fact correctly: Knicks signed Felton BEFORE the deadline to match Houston's contract!
http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/jeremy-lin-deadline-approaches-raymond-felton-officially-a-knick-1.3841893

LOL@ all the people who agreed with everything Knicks FO did this off season.
Dolan's propaganda machine got some of you brainwashed! Why is Lin's contract an issue with the fans? Team is already over the cap the third year, with or without Lin's contract. It means, by signing Lin, the only thing that's affecting is Dolan's pocket. Unless you are his bookkeeper, it shouldnt be a concern for you! Cable and ticket prices wont drop because of not signing Lin.
- Second hight average ticket price in NBA
- One playoff win in the last 20 years
- One of the biggest fan bases in NBA
Should Dolan pay 45 some million for Lin in the 3rd year? Fvck yeah he should.

Why is Novak 15 million contract not an issue?
He was picked off waver last year.
He can't create his own shots.
He will never be affective without a PG who can drive and dish.
He can't defend.
He is a veteran who already reached his potential.
Lin costs 1 million more than Novak for the next two years.
Did you guy forget how he played against Miami in the playoff????????

For one lousy 3rd-year, fans cast Lin under the bus....praise to Dolan's propaganda machine! Objective achieved!

Oh yeah, BTW I totally agree that 25-game is not enough of a sample size, but that one game against Miami......

GREAT post.. I mentioned that before and no one wanted to touch on that...

Novak is the best 3pt shooter in the NBA and received a 4 year deal for $15 mil with his highest salary of a little over $4 million coming this season. He will make less than $4 million for the next 3 years of the deal. Novak costs the Knicks $2 million less over the next 2 seasons and $10 million less over the life of the contracts.

THankfully we have a PG who can get Novak the ball. He may not be able to create his own shot off the dribble but he can pump fake himself into a long range 2 from time to time. He didn't play well against Miami but he did play better in the playoffs than Lin did.

WHERE are all of the videos of novak getting shut down vs the heat? why not post that.. we are paying him 4 mil after he got cut from the spurs.. and get this.. his best ball and emergence came during linsanity...

Your argument is tainted with homerism to the ^50000, jeremy lin in a PG dominated league, or a guard dominated league is not overpaid at 24 mil or 28 mil over 4 years.... even if lin averages 14/6, that is still comparable pay.. look at what kyle lowry got from the rockets.. 24 mil...

novak is getting 15 mil over 4 years, and he is no mike miller, he is strictly a one trick pony, he isn't even shane battier. Novak doesn't defend at all.. Now I like novak, but clearly he is better in an open offense, when the ball is pushed and the defense is scrambling, he is killer.. in this half court give melo the ball, iso, jab step, jabstep, fake, spin, fake, jab step, then shoot.. he is going to be standing still and good athletic teams( like you find in the playoffs) will be able to close out on him...

again, this bashing of lin, because he is no longer here is blind homerism!

Novak's deal with the Knicks is the reason I say If Lin wanted to be here, how could have gotten a decent deal from the Knicks...If Novak fot 3.8 mil over 4 yrs..Lin could have gotten 5-6 over 4 as well....He didn't want to be here...He and his agent upped the final year to make it difficult for the Knicks to resign him....

Knicks would have matched the first offer. They telegraphed that for weeks. Told the world that. I doubt the knicks anticipated that Rockets would come in with that poison pill. Not the agent, not Lin, but Rockets.

My point is KNicks never made an offer or had an agreement. Could have shook hands on a deal and said if we get the bird rights, we'll give you 5 per year for 4 years, or what ever. They told him to get a number. So Lin got a number. A big number. MOFO came back with 15mm big old egg! Lin came home with a boatload that musta made Dolan crap his pants, get pale and sweat. Somewhere charles his fathter come wheeling in with his wheel chair, cane across his legs and slams the cane a the back of LIttle Man Jimmy and yells "greedy little turd, you managed to screw that one up too!" The little man gets a freaking gift from the gods in the form of Lin and he messed it up. How do you do that? A gift? Dumb luck! What ever. Knicks Failed.

Here is what we know: Knicks wanted him. Telegraphed it for weeks, made a spectacle of the LA dinner and had woodson tell the world he was our dog.

End result for what ever reason: Lin don't come back thus we failed. Simple. We told season ticket subscribers to reup and Lin is your pg of the future. Young kids crying about a kNick leaving. IN the Face of the Brooklyn Nets encroaching on the turf the Knicks told the world you got Lin, and simply failed without a word from management. No apology, no explaination. Just Charles Dolan beating down his loser son in the mansion of shame his son lives in.

Naturally we got homers to trying to justify the fail? You gotta be kidding me. Good thing y'all were not around when we traded Clyde to CLeveland to compensate them for our signing Jim Cleamons. Im sure you would have "good riddence Clyde! Getting too old!" kind of crap and do the "Sour Grapes" act homers are good at. Y'all would have booed willis, called Debusschere a community pick, called Bradley a WASP, and Holzmans ball sharing offense some "Socialistic Jew conspiracy" thing to keep Earls shot count down!

I hope he tears it the Phuch up! Not to spite us, just because I like the kid! Linsanity was cool not because he was asian, because he was clutch! He is still a work in progress. Sometimes you overpay for potential. Ooops, this is the Knick homer land were you overpay for the past performance.

Some of you homers talk as if the season already happend and we won 55 games.

NObody will enjoy that more than me but those games still have to be played.

Knicks take care of business then Lin, Gallo, Mozzy, or Shy Wilson is not an issue. Win and enjoy a good starphuch. Lose and be accountable for the Starphuching Dolan keeps giving you.

Dude, you really got some serious issues. Reading this post, you are nothing more than an instigator, calling people "Homers" and "Apologists" etc. Most everyone here wanted to retain Lin and yet you call them names, because they offer their view about what might have transpired during the negotiations.....or they offer a rational discussion and analysis of how the new CBA Tax situation plays into this. You condemn Dolan for making bad financial decisions in the past, and also condemn him in this case for exhibiting fiscal restraint. That is called hypocracy. You label this a Fail, yet do not know for sure if this is a "fail" since no one knows yet how Lin will perform nor how the Knicks will perform without him.

Lin could become All NBA by Year 3 and play at a Rondo level..... that's what it would take to justify his contract. In that case it is a fail for the Knicks.

then again....

Lin's knee might not hold up to a season's worth of pounding and could become arthritic and degenerative.
Defensive schemes adjust to Lin and he does not adjust adequately and performs to a much lesser level than his 25 game audition.

In the latter case, I suspect you will not come back on here and post that you were a "fail" and Dolan and all the people you called "Homers" and "Apologists" were right. The reason I suspect this is that you are still holding onto Gallo, Moz and Chandler....who have done nothing of note since leaving the Knicks.....as a condemnation of Dolan and the Knicks organization.

lol.. really? so much pressure on an undrafted player... tell me, what has carmelo done to justify his contract which is 4x that of lins? he never made all nba first team.... and we are talking about a lotter pick here..... how has he justified 20 mil?

This is where the thread turned south, not surprised by the one who accomplished it.

actually it was a simple question, either answer it or run and complain about the conversation turning south, with is contributing to the conversation turning south... smh

It was a question with the intent to derail.

Why not keep it on Lin, if you want a Melo or gallo thread just make one.

i never mentioned gallo, but that is an attempt to bait.. right? you complain and then do exactly what you complain about.. LOL...

why not do this.. keep talking about lin and stop complaining about not talking about lin.. that would probably keep the convo moving..

the question was simple...and relevant, go look at every thread and tell me that no other player ever gets mentioned in the convo...

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:I dont judge players out context. I can easily say that Amare only won because he played with one of the top PG's of all time (and the most efficient). That would be as dumb as you stating a record out of context. But I have come to expect crap like this out of you and I am ok with it.

I judge players by how they are doing now and what we can expect from them next year.

PHX offered Amare 60 million. The knicks offered 100 million. No other teams made offers. What does that tell you? Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh- errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr - ehhhhhhhhhh. Melo SUX and is a loser! Huh? Did that just pop out?

If Melo became an FA, any and every team would try to get that LOSER if they could.

Have a nice day!

not at the "RIDICULOUS" price we paid....

and 100 million for Amare was not "RIDICULOUS"? If not, where were the other non-ridiculous offers? How many teams would have offered Melo max money as an FA? ALL who could!

I think the Knicks over paid at the time. But now that all the flip floppers have jumped off the Felton bandwagon, I don't think it was as bad - LMFAO!!!!! I do however miss THE MOZ!

In all seriousness, I was the most upset about Chandler - I really liked him here. He has yet to prove me right.

In all seriousness both gallo and chandler are very good players who are not even close to their prime yet.. along with the first and second round picks, giving away anthony randolph and throwing in the huge expiring of curry, we paid a KINGS ransom....

I would straight up trade this entire team for the nuggets roster right now... and when you look at it, almost half of those guys were knicks just a couple of years ago. It kind of gets to me, you know...

I didn't like giving amare 100 mil, but in all fairness, he pretty much came as advertised, played MVP ball the first few months and honestly, had a team of pretty young players playing above .500... how many times do you see players like amare(allstar talent, but not superstar) leading a team of guys like that and they usually are horrible.... I give amare credit for that, plus amare has been part of a winning culture in pheonix, one in which he was one of the teams best performers... but the 100 mil contract was just money, and what I mean is that amare came without the additional cost of young players and first round picks.

Half of them? The only ones who really played (last year) was Gallo and Moz. And Chandler was a FA so he would have not been retained. They did give up too much but only because they could have gotten away with paying less. Curry's expiring was certainly valuable. AR was/is worthless. I would have certainly rather have waited for FAgency if we could. I would have also liked Deron instead but I am not if that would have been the correct decision based on what I have seen from Deron in NJ but I am not sold yet either way.

Amare played below expectations so far. Far below. He had a great half personally though the team was only 28-26 to that point and sliding fast. Outside of that he has been extremely underwhelming.

It was also nice to be part of a winning culture that included the one and only Steve Nash. Marion, JJ, JRich and the rest of them were pretty freakin good too. Put him on a team with no PG and OUCH!! That does not mean he was not talented but he needed a PG to elevate his game. How would he have done if PHX replaced Nash with an old AI or another mediocre player?

Just because we overpaid for Melo does not make me hate him. He is still a solid player who with the right team can be a dominant contributor. As was the case for Paul Pierce.

Melo is not an orchestrator like Lebron or MJ and will never be. He is a dominant scorer that needs an orchestrator. Every team needs that type of leader. That is why I wish we could have gotten Chris Paul or at that point - DWil. We all saw how great Melo was in the olympics when surrounded by talented.

Now, Melo has to improve his shot selection, be less selfish and play consistent defense. I am not blind to his deficiencies. He should be held accountable for that. But I won't blindly hate him for it and believe he can improve on that.

This season will be very enlightening.

i GUESS I view things differently, I think amare has been as advertised until we make the trade to bring carmelo here and his game has not been the same..

As far as the denver team go, what I mean is that they have half of our players.. they now have AR, gallo, chandler, moz, heck even corey brewer is there I think.. LOL

Just because we overpaid for Melo does not make me hate him

true, that makes me dislike dolan.. I dislike carmelo for other reasons...

He is a dominant scorer that needs an orchestrator. Every team needs that type of leader. That is why I wish we could have gotten Chris Paul or at that point - DWil. We all saw how great Melo was in the olympics when surrounded by talented.

I think melo is a very good scorer and a GREat streak scorer.. not dominant.. sorry, there is really nothing that supports that.... I do agree that I wish we had gotten paul or d-wil, but that would have been instead of melo. Look everyone looks great on the olympic team, especially when going against lesser talent most of the time, but you can't fill your NBA team with guys like lebron, wade and kobe, and if you could, why would you need carmelo?

basically what you are saying about carmelo is what I can say about a lot of good all star players... that is fine, but those are not the guys you build around and disrupt your franchise for.. that is my problem.. that's all...

But I won't blindly hate him for it and believe he can improve on that.

that is fine, but odd that after 10 years you expect him to make those changes, but lin was pretty much finished after the miami game....

This season will be very enlightening.

for some it will be, for me, it will be different because I will be following a couple of other teams a bit closer, and I will be more of a spectator with these knicks, although I will root for them to win no doubt.... If you want to use enlightening, I can go with that for now...

Amare's game (and the team) was in decline before Melo got here. And, hey were 12-16 pre trade and 14-14 post trade.

As far as Denvers Knick players, Brewer was not part of the trade (not that you are suggesting this) but I was extremely pissed about that fiasco. He played very meaningful minutes on both Dallas and Denver. AR is AR, Chandler was not going to be resigned and Gallo and Moz were contributors. We don't necessarily disagree about the trade and overpaying though.

Numbers wise, Melo was/is as (nearly (for arguments sake)) dominant of a scorer as Kobe is/was. He is a lesser player but as far as scorer, the numbers do not lie.

Melo looked better than great/everyone on the olympic team. Tyson did not look good on the olympic team.

Melo is in the league of PP. Do you build your team around him? Not sure. But, it all depends on the alternative.\

Melo can change just like PP did when he was coached correctly and was surrounded by supreme talent. He also averaged 3.6 assist last year better than his career average of 3.0. I would like to see it go over 4.0.

I never said that Lin was finished after the Miami game. I did say that they exposed a weakness. He was certainly a contributor in later games.

You have the right as a fan to follow who you want as I have always said, I at least appreciate your honesty and candor.

don't try to oversell pierce having "supreme talent" around him.. rofl, that is such a sorry attempt.. he had good talent around him, good mature talent that fit, but not supreme talent.. come on man.. stop trying to validate carmelo so much.... I am not even sure he is as good as pierce is/ was, plus they are two different players... pierce style allowed him to mesh with various talents....

carmelo did well playing with the elite of the league, unless we are adding kobe, lebron and durant I am not sure I can apply any thing melo did in the olympics to the knicks..

Anyone validating Amare all the time should not preach about validating.

Rondo, Garnett and Allen were excellent players around PP. When did Melo have that? How did KG and PP do without each other/team? Nuff said.

Melo is better than PP IMHO but they are similar. PP's style allowed him to Mesh with THOSE guys. And a good coach.

No great team do great without a great orchestrator (few exception). Melo will certainly lack that as he did every year other than the time with Billups.

YOU ARE ALSO overseling my defense of amare.. please give it up... amare is really not the issue here as he is expendable to me as well on this team...

rondo, garnett and allen when they joined the celtics were no longer elite players(garnett and allen) rondo was still a young player learning.. come on now..

Why is the argument for melo always "when did he ever have this or that".. maybe part of the problem is that teams are paying this guy like max player and he is not....maybe teams should stop building around him , your excuses sure do lend itself to that conclusion..

No great team do great without a great orchestrator

agreed to some extent... so again I ask, why do you and others defend the fleecing of our teams assets to bring this guy here?

Do you read posts or do you just skim through it? Mr. Knickshot and myself have said numerous times that we gave up a bit much for Melo. It would have been great if we could have signed him as a FA. Didn't happen, blame Dolan. For some reason, you take out your angst on Melo for the trade when it was Dolan that pulled the trigger. You take out your angst on Melo for the trading of your boy Gallo, when we all know (except for you apparently) that it was Dolan and staff who moved Gallo, not Melo himself.

MELO IS NO innocent bystander,he forced his way here instead of waiting because he wanted to get paid... he knew the knicks would have to trade almost every asset they had.. this is just not on dolan....

I find it funny how you guys keep bringing gallo up, yet i haven't mentioned his name once... it is like the classic, I don't have anything to contribute to this debate, so I will do the usual drive by random, irrelevant comment act...... getting kind of old man..

Can't fault Melo for wanting to get paid. There was a lot of uncertainty about what kind of max contract he could get under the new cba which as we know turned out to be a joke anyway. You can't fault him like some people fault Lin for signing an offer sheet. Like he is suppose to pass it up. This was squarely on Dolan. As is every bad organizational decision.

And I agree with Nalod. I've brought up in the past how important the aspect of Lin being able to thrive in New York was. Its the reason I wanted to keep him when some were suggesting we bring in Gragic instead who we had no idea how he would handle pressure in NY. Look at the pressure the fans and media put on players. And they turn on them quick as with Ewing, Melo, stat and lin

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:Lots of superlatives and adjectives to describe a player with 35 NBA games under his belt...Devin Harris had a better stretch where he played fantastic over a longer period of time...Harris was much more polished a player than Lin was at that stage in his career...Harris looked like a player to build around for the next decade...Does he look now to be worth a commitment of 70 mil??..I'm just amazed at folks who "seemed" to have watch hoops for so long are all ready to jump in and commit to a virtual unknown...I guess when it's not your money, what's the risk, right??...Maybe like Dolan it's "emotional"...

not really, harris looked exactly like some of us pegged him. a combo guard in a PG's body. harris was a scorer, he wasn't a creator. Lin was a creator, you can see the difference if you truly are being honest here.

what was unknown about LIn? to say that we are ready to commit to an unknown is not true, here is what we know.

lin played hard, he could get to the line, he had an uncanny ability to finish at the rim, he could get to the rim, he could play pick and roll very well, he made guys around him better, he was able to raise his game to almost elite levels at times. Those are things we witnessed. did we really need to see 82 games of that to believe that the kid had potential. Potential worth spending the money on?

we had no problem trading multiple picks, and young lottery talent along with giving melo a 100 mil deal, and here is what we already knew about him.

he has a 16-36 playoff record

He doesn't make teamates better

He needs a better player than him to help his game.

yet many people after 9 years in this league feel that he will change.

let me add, i am a novak fan, what did he do to deserve a deal worth 15 mil? just saying, the guy was cut by the spurs and if not for lin maybe he gets cut by the knicks. this is the same novak people were saying was exposed because he could not get a shot off vs the heat.. I wonder why? maybe because he didn't have that kid named lin feeding him open looks.... everyone loves to spend dolans money, when it comes to lin, all of a sudden we are clipping coupons.

I don't understand that thinking at all. Not one bit.

Lots of people peg Lin as a score first guard, I don't think he is a creator...He hasn't created much for our big two...Harris was an awesome penetrator as well if not better..

Lin hasn't played a full season, what's not to understand..U are resting everything on 9 games, many of which he had horrible shooting stints but were overlook because we won...

I'm not sure how Melo worked his way into the convo...

actually lin is a creator, just ask guys like chandler, fields and novak, and oh throw jeffries in for that matter.. as far as creating for our big two? I would not lump amare in that as he and lin had some good games together... but since he didn't play as well with the so called "big 2" rofl that just cracks me up..... I guess he isn't a creator.

And really I am not resting everything on 9 games, but tell me, what else is there to judge lin by? should I imagine up games he hasn't played?

9

games, many of which he had horrible shooting stints but were overlook because we won...

LOL... oh, by the way, during the 9 games he shot 50% from the field and averaged a little over 9 dimes.... yea, he really shot the ball horrible during most of those games.. dude you are just flat out wrong.. just drop it please.. LOL...

Games, I love spin...No he was actually 1-10 in the first half of the Minny game and ended up 9-24...There were other games where he was under 50%...

You asked what else is there to judge him on except 9 games yet u don't want to concede he is an unknown...

DON'T DO THIS to yourself.. you said he shot horribly most of those games, and that didn't happen... he shot very well which is why his average was over 50% and dude what does it matter that he started 1-10, guess what, he finished 7-14, that is 50% in the second half in a close game on the road that they won!!!! why must you insist on proving my point and continuing to argue after doing so....

ok, there were other games he was under .50%, you are right like the game vs the hornets where he shot 8-18 that is 44% is that horrible.. his worst shooting game was the minny game 8-24, other than that he shot over .50% all of the other games... you said he shot horribly and you are dead wrong.. just stop bro..

you are stumbling, bumbling, fumbling( in my chris berman voice)........

but hey, that is ok, I understand the sour grapes, it is cool, this is just a forum, should be fun, even if you are way off and wrong... thats cool. I have no problem.... but I will drop it if you will....

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:Lots of superlatives and adjectives to describe a player with 35 NBA games under his belt...Devin Harris had a better stretch where he played fantastic over a longer period of time...Harris was much more polished a player than Lin was at that stage in his career...Harris looked like a player to build around for the next decade...Does he look now to be worth a commitment of 70 mil??..I'm just amazed at folks who "seemed" to have watch hoops for so long are all ready to jump in and commit to a virtual unknown...I guess when it's not your money, what's the risk, right??...Maybe like Dolan it's "emotional"...

not really, harris looked exactly like some of us pegged him. a combo guard in a PG's body. harris was a scorer, he wasn't a creator. Lin was a creator, you can see the difference if you truly are being honest here.

what was unknown about LIn? to say that we are ready to commit to an unknown is not true, here is what we know.

lin played hard, he could get to the line, he had an uncanny ability to finish at the rim, he could get to the rim, he could play pick and roll very well, he made guys around him better, he was able to raise his game to almost elite levels at times. Those are things we witnessed. did we really need to see 82 games of that to believe that the kid had potential. Potential worth spending the money on?

we had no problem trading multiple picks, and young lottery talent along with giving melo a 100 mil deal, and here is what we already knew about him.

he has a 16-36 playoff record

He doesn't make teamates better

He needs a better player than him to help his game.

yet many people after 9 years in this league feel that he will change.

let me add, i am a novak fan, what did he do to deserve a deal worth 15 mil? just saying, the guy was cut by the spurs and if not for lin maybe he gets cut by the knicks. this is the same novak people were saying was exposed because he could not get a shot off vs the heat.. I wonder why? maybe because he didn't have that kid named lin feeding him open looks.... everyone loves to spend dolans money, when it comes to lin, all of a sudden we are clipping coupons.

I don't understand that thinking at all. Not one bit.

Lots of people peg Lin as a score first guard, I don't think he is a creator...He hasn't created much for our big two...Harris was an awesome penetrator as well if not better..

Lin hasn't played a full season, what's not to understand..U are resting everything on 9 games, many of which he had horrible shooting stints but were overlook because we won...

I'm not sure how Melo worked his way into the convo...

actually lin is a creator, just ask guys like chandler, fields and novak, and oh throw jeffries in for that matter.. as far as creating for our big two? I would not lump amare in that as he and lin had some good games together... but since he didn't play as well with the so called "big 2" rofl that just cracks me up..... I guess he isn't a creator.

And really I am not resting everything on 9 games, but tell me, what else is there to judge lin by? should I imagine up games he hasn't played?

9

games, many of which he had horrible shooting stints but were overlook because we won...

LOL... oh, by the way, during the 9 games he shot 50% from the field and averaged a little over 9 dimes.... yea, he really shot the ball horrible during most of those games.. dude you are just flat out wrong.. just drop it please.. LOL...

Games, I love spin...No he was actually 1-10 in the first half of the Minny game and ended up 9-24...There were other games where he was under 50%...

You asked what else is there to judge him on except 9 games yet u don't want to concede he is an unknown...

DON'T DO THIS to yourself.. you said he shot horribly most of those games, and that didn't happen... he shot very well which is why his average was over 50% and dude what does it matter that he started 1-10, guess what, he finished 7-14, that is 50% in the second half in a close game on the road that they won!!!! why must you insist on proving my point and continuing to argue after doing so....

ok, there were other games he was under .50%, you are right like the game vs the hornets where he shot 8-18 that is 44% is that horrible.. his worst shooting game was the minny game 8-24, other than that he shot over .50% all of the other games... you said he shot horribly and you are dead wrong.. just stop bro..

you are stumbling, bumbling, fumbling( in my chris berman voice)........

but hey, that is ok, I understand the sour grapes, it is cool, this is just a forum, should be fun, even if you are way off and wrong... thats cool. I have no problem.... but I will drop it if you will....

It's just sheer exhaustion trying to untwist your spins then defend accusation that I never said such as he shot poorly in MOST games...then u set a percentage what he shot during his run, then I disprove it, then u say it's only two games when I can prove it's more, then hey, isn't 44% a good percentage...In all the back and forth the original thought and point I'm trying to get across is lost...U muddle the entire dialogue with candor of a politician, tis the season I guess...

HONESTLY dude I don't think you know what you are saying.. read your own post... LOL

these are your words...

Lin hasn't played a full season, what's not to understand..U are resting everything on 9 games, many of which he had horrible shooting stints but were overlook because we won...