DLeethal wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:OG is bigger and more impactful than I imagined. The issue isn't the player, it's what we gave up and whether we can replace it. Otherwise our ceiling is largely the same.

We struggled against all the top teams this year before the trade. We couldn't hang with any of them. We have beaten the crap out of all the top 3 teams in each conference we have played so far after the trade. Not a huge sample size, but it's hard to say our ceiling hasn't been raised. Our floor and our ceiling has been raised.

I think you are ignoring too much how this team was trending before the trade and focusing too much on how they played in the second half of last year instead. Different year, we weren't the same team.

Also, there is zero point of judging this team as if it's the finished product. We have a gazillion picks we will need to move. So even if the move was made to solidify a super important role next to Brunson and Randle, and in your mind was a lateral move (it's not), it allows us to build a much stronger team with another tweak or two. You have to build your team brick by brick and never in one swoop. If this was one step sideways it allows us to take two steps forward with another move.

This team would school the team that was giving up 130 a night though, there is no doubt about it.

i get it but its a long season full of ebbs and flows and we were playing a brutal schedule. I doubt we would have been a bad defensive team all year.

I mean i've gone back and forth on the trade, OG has been better than expected so far defensively. and we probably signed DDV with the intention of moving IQ. so it's offset somewhat.

just waiting for that next move.

Why would that team not have been bad all year? There was barely any defense in that rotation and Mitch was no longer there to clean it up. We ranked 19th the year before, we were trending to being a bottom 5 or bottom 3 defense before the trade. That stretch was not just a bad stretch by a decent defensive team. It was a historically bad stretch by a bad defensive team.

because we have/had good defensive players and a good defensive coach.

we were top 10 in OFF/DEF most of last season and early on this season we well. The defense has definitely been inconsistent the past two years and had bad stretches but it wasn't for lack of personale.

but no question OG has transformed us there, he's been huge here. He wasn't having the same defensive impact in TOR this season.

I'm not against the trade or OG, we just need to fill some holes, if we trade for DJM everything makes a ton more sense and we can truly be a darkhorse IMO

GustavBahler wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:“Groupthink” here - that’s funny

Says the poster who cant handle even the slightest criticism of Randle. Thats been the bulk of your time here, calling out other posters with your Randle freakouts.

YOu accused me of the same two weeks ago!
Might occur that your skin is not as thick as you think it might be?

GustavBahler wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:“Groupthink” here - that’s funny

Says the poster who cant handle even the slightest criticism of Randle. Thats been the bulk of your time here, calling out other posters with your Randle freakouts.

Ah, the "you always you never" rebuttal. Leading your response with a hyperbolic falsehood doesn't leave much room for discussion does it? I suppose it still works in the 5th grade. Do I need to bump all my posts that weren't comments on lazy (groupthink?) Randle (or Thibs. Or FO.) hate? Why do I bother responding? But of course I do. I need to learn.

So is it groupthink or it you? I will leave it at that.

KnickDanger wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:“Groupthink” here - that’s funny

Says the poster who cant handle even the slightest criticism of Randle. Thats been the bulk of your time here, calling out other posters with your Randle freakouts.

Ah, the "you always you never" rebuttal. Leading your response with a hyperbolic falsehood doesn't leave much room for discussion does it? I suppose it still works in the 5th grade. Do I need to bump all my posts that weren't comments on lazy (groupthink?) Randle (or Thibs. Or FO.) hate? Why do I bother responding? But of course I do. I need to learn.

So is it groupthink or it you? I will leave it at that.

No, you should bump every call out to other posters for not acting like they're in a cult. Many, Many, posts. Surprised you're even trying.

fishmike wrote:who gives a phuck about anything besides watching OG play for the Knicks and the ascension of this squad. Leon and Thibs have built a real thing here. Patience with Randle has really paid off. Some mistakes but nothing Leon was unable to recover from. Fournier, Kemba, Reddish, Obi... obviously mistakes, but they straight up signed Brunson, DD and IHart as FAs. Homegrown are Mitch and Grimes, the rest we traded for and are on reasonable contracts and we have all our FRP picks +4 others (at least 2 will convey).

We are probably a player away, but we have seen really good development with Thibs over time so maybe that guy is here (OG) or it turns out IHart is a late bloomer and becomes a Jokic quality passer (just spitting here). Point is right now we have a puncher's chance vs. any team. Nobody wants to deal with this defense and physical play with Brunson finishing games.

I am really enjoying this and hoping everyone else is too. How many in a row we winning????

The whole row's worth

newyorknewyork wrote:

fishmike wrote:who gives a phuck about anything besides watching OG play for the Knicks and the ascension of this squad. Leon and Thibs have built a real thing here. Patience with Randle has really paid off. Some mistakes but nothing Leon was unable to recover from. Fournier, Kemba, Reddish, Obi... obviously mistakes, but they straight up signed Brunson, DD and IHart as FAs. Homegrown are Mitch and Grimes, the rest we traded for and are on reasonable contracts and we have all our FRP picks +4 others (at least 2 will convey).

We are probably a player away, but we have seen really good development with Thibs over time so maybe that guy is here (OG) or it turns out IHart is a late bloomer and becomes a Jokic quality passer (just spitting here). Point is right now we have a puncher's chance vs. any team. Nobody wants to deal with this defense and physical play with Brunson finishing games.

I am really enjoying this and hoping everyone else is too. How many in a row we winning????

We are a Brogdon trade/Hayward buyout signing/Ihart & Mitch return from injury away.

nycericanguy wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:OG is bigger and more impactful than I imagined. The issue isn't the player, it's what we gave up and whether we can replace it. Otherwise our ceiling is largely the same.

We struggled against all the top teams this year before the trade. We couldn't hang with any of them. We have beaten the crap out of all the top 3 teams in each conference we have played so far after the trade. Not a huge sample size, but it's hard to say our ceiling hasn't been raised. Our floor and our ceiling has been raised.

I think you are ignoring too much how this team was trending before the trade and focusing too much on how they played in the second half of last year instead. Different year, we weren't the same team.

Also, there is zero point of judging this team as if it's the finished product. We have a gazillion picks we will need to move. So even if the move was made to solidify a super important role next to Brunson and Randle, and in your mind was a lateral move (it's not), it allows us to build a much stronger team with another tweak or two. You have to build your team brick by brick and never in one swoop. If this was one step sideways it allows us to take two steps forward with another move.

This team would school the team that was giving up 130 a night though, there is no doubt about it.

i get it but its a long season full of ebbs and flows and we were playing a brutal schedule. I doubt we would have been a bad defensive team all year.

I mean i've gone back and forth on the trade, OG has been better than expected so far defensively. and we probably signed DDV with the intention of moving IQ. so it's offset somewhat.

just waiting for that next move.

Why would that team not have been bad all year? There was barely any defense in that rotation and Mitch was no longer there to clean it up. We ranked 19th the year before, we were trending to being a bottom 5 or bottom 3 defense before the trade. That stretch was not just a bad stretch by a decent defensive team. It was a historically bad stretch by a bad defensive team.

because we have/had good defensive players and a good defensive coach.

we were top 10 in OFF/DEF most of last season and early on this season we well. The defense has definitely been inconsistent the past two years and had bad stretches but it wasn't for lack of personale.

but no question OG has transformed us there, he's been huge here. He wasn't having the same defensive impact in TOR this season.

I'm not against the trade or OG, we just need to fill some holes, if we trade for DJM everything makes a ton more sense and we can truly be a darkhorse IMO

The defense transformed for more than just OG IMO. Yes, he is a DPOY caliber guy and filled our biggest defensive need. But getting Deuce in there, more Grimes, Hart, DDV in addition to 35 mins of OG all contributed. More minutes to our best defensive guys + Deuce + OG turned us into a really good defensive squad and that's without our anchor whom is one of the best in the league at anchoring.

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:“Groupthink” here - that’s funny

Says the poster who cant handle even the slightest criticism of Randle. Thats been the bulk of your time here, calling out other posters with your Randle freakouts.

YOu accused me of the same two weeks ago!
Might occur that your skin is not as thick as you think it might be?

FFS Nalod, you've been doing it for 20 plus years. Too soon??

Two weeks ago bro. YOu got all sensitive. Too soon you at it again?

I understand Nalod, most of the posters you incessantly call out dont respond. Im sure you like it that way. Not used to someone throwing it right back at you. Thats "sensitivity".

This recent go-round started when I said that I would rather hear dissenting views, than posters coming back with nothing other than that poster's motivation for not liking an aspect of said player's game. Trying to enforce a kind of groupthink. Discouraging opposing views by making it all about the poster.

Some of the same cast of characters chime in, to what disagree? I was sticking up for another poster, and you found a way to make it all about you bro. Hence the problem.

nycericanguy wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:OG is bigger and more impactful than I imagined. The issue isn't the player, it's what we gave up and whether we can replace it. Otherwise our ceiling is largely the same.

We struggled against all the top teams this year before the trade. We couldn't hang with any of them. We have beaten the crap out of all the top 3 teams in each conference we have played so far after the trade. Not a huge sample size, but it's hard to say our ceiling hasn't been raised. Our floor and our ceiling has been raised.

I think you are ignoring too much how this team was trending before the trade and focusing too much on how they played in the second half of last year instead. Different year, we weren't the same team.

Also, there is zero point of judging this team as if it's the finished product. We have a gazillion picks we will need to move. So even if the move was made to solidify a super important role next to Brunson and Randle, and in your mind was a lateral move (it's not), it allows us to build a much stronger team with another tweak or two. You have to build your team brick by brick and never in one swoop. If this was one step sideways it allows us to take two steps forward with another move.

This team would school the team that was giving up 130 a night though, there is no doubt about it.

i get it but its a long season full of ebbs and flows and we were playing a brutal schedule. I doubt we would have been a bad defensive team all year.

I mean i've gone back and forth on the trade, OG has been better than expected so far defensively. and we probably signed DDV with the intention of moving IQ. so it's offset somewhat.

just waiting for that next move.

I think DDV is the replacement for Grimes. I like how Deuce is progressing but IMO still need to replace IQ with a guy who can create/score for the 2nd unit when things might not be going well.

fishmike wrote:who gives a phuck about anything besides watching OG play for the Knicks and the ascension of this squad. Leon and Thibs have built a real thing here. Patience with Randle has really paid off. Some mistakes but nothing Leon was unable to recover from. Fournier, Kemba, Reddish, Obi... obviously mistakes, but they straight up signed Brunson, DD and IHart as FAs. Homegrown are Mitch and Grimes, the rest we traded for and are on reasonable contracts and we have all our FRP picks +4 others (at least 2 will convey).

We are probably a player away, but we have seen really good development with Thibs over time so maybe that guy is here (OG) or it turns out IHart is a late bloomer and becomes a Jokic quality passer (just spitting here). Point is right now we have a puncher's chance vs. any team. Nobody wants to deal with this defense and physical play with Brunson finishing games.

I am really enjoying this and hoping everyone else is too. How many in a row we winning????

I honestly think we're pretty close. They just need that additional scorer and its not a superstar scorer. Just a third guy who can create his own shot and handle the ball vs. the press for depth purposes. People are convinced of a 3 superstar model, but its not really that. We have the scoring you don't need another 25 point scorer for the sake of it. What this trade should be teaching everyone is we actually sent out 35ppg and brought back 15 and got better. We could use another guy who can get 10 off the bench, sure, but we work better now. Brunson and Randle can score more and actually be more efficient at the same time with the spacing they are afforded.