Remember when Woody went big and the BIG problem was that we couldn't score at all? I love D, but the object of the game is to outscore your opponent. The best rebounding team in the league didn't win the title. The best defensive team in the league didn't win the title.

NBA Team Opponent Points per Game
Rank 	Team 	        2012-13 Home 	Away 	2011
1 	Memphis 	90.0 	87.7 	92.2 	92.8
2 	Indiana 	90.9 	89.8 	91.9 	93.7
3 	Chicago 	93.6 	91.8 	95.3 	88.0
4 	Miami 	        94.1 	94.1 	94.2 	91.9
5 	New York 	94.5 	92.6 	96.3 	94.8
6 	LA Clippers 	95.0 	93.4 	96.6 	95.1
7 	Brooklyn 	95.3 	94.7 	95.9 	99.1
8 	Washington 	95.8 	95.2 	96.3 	98.4
9 	San Antonio 	96.0 	94.5 	97.5 	96.4
10 	Boston 	        96.1 	93.6 	98.5 	89.1

The Knicks were 13th in Defensive Efficiency.

NBA Team Offensive Efficiency
Rank 	Team 	        2012-13 Home 	Away 	2011
1 	Miami 	        1.082 	1.108 	1.055 	1.036
2 	Okla City 	1.076 	1.105 	1.046 	1.062
3 	LA Clippers 	1.066 	1.096 	1.036 	1.035
4 	New York 	1.062 	1.091 	1.033 	1.001
5 	Denver 	        1.061 	1.085 	1.038 	1.053
6 	Houston 	1.057 	1.075 	1.039 	1.018
7 	San Antonio 	1.052 	1.073 	1.031 	1.074
8 	Brooklyn 	1.044 	1.058 	1.029 	0.993
9 	LA Lakers 	1.037 	1.046 	1.028 	1.022
10 	Utah 	        1.030 	1.063 	0.998 	1.023

The Knicks dropped off so much from it's regular season Offensive Efficiency that it's hard to believe they could play so poorly. It wasn't the defense that let the team down. It was the offense. This is why we saw the Knicks add AB and Beno and draft THJ. We can't have a repeat of such poor offense in the playoffs again.

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Our #1 offensive play is the PNR with Felton & Chandler. Chandler connects at 64.75% and Felton connects at 52% or Pablo at 59.65%. As well as the kick outs that lead to ball swings and open 3s.

Bargs impact will be that he will allow Melo to matchup mostly against SFs instead of PFs. So If the PNR is defended well when we go to Melo in the post or iso as the 2nd option Melo will be able to for the most part have easier matchups. There aren't many SFs that can guard Melo in the post. Example last playoffs Boston wouldn't have been able to put Bass on Melo with Barg's in the lineup.

An Artest, Melo, Bargs lineup with Melo running the PNR with Bargs would be very hard to stop as well and would be very good for spurts of a game depending on if they are getting killed on the glass or defensively. Either the paint would be wide open for Melo or Melo can pad some ast on the pop.

Bargs also takes away the dependence on JR Smith to be a playmaker. Instead we could run PNP/PNR with Bargs and Smith can do what he does best which is spot up shooting. Felton/Bargs PNP just like Melo example before gives Felton more opportunities to attack the paint if the big commits to Bargs. Felton doesn't have to worry about the crowded paint as much.

We have more OPTIONS! That's what seems to be lost on those who don't like the move. It's not about AB being an All Star. It's about how this team will be able to be more effective on offense in playoff situations. We really saw how limited the offense was in the playoffs. Kidd was done. JR was done. Felton faded. Melo had too much on his shoulders again. This team should have more help this time to avoid that happening again. AB helps to add another dimension to the offense along with Beno who has more left in the tank than Kidd did.

AB will also add another dimension on defense too.. A hole... that is also being lost here.. the knicks were not limited because of the ineffectiveness of other players, the knicks were limited because of the way one main player plays... you can plug in this player and that player, but it all comes down to one thing.... who will tie carmelo's hands behind his back so he won't force up 35 shots.. and don't tell me that woodson will redirect the ball from carmelo to bargnani and beno to run pick and roll....

Bargs impact will be that he will allow Melo to matchup mostly against SFs instead of PFs.

you do realize that paul george is a SF right? how is that an advantage for carmelo?

I was clearly talking about in the post which the rest of the paragraph clarified. So I am wondering why you choose to take this one sentence and make this comment?

Regardless George can't guard Anthony. The only thing that stops Anthony from killing George is Hibbert. When Hibbert was out of the game George and West got abused. If Bargs pulls Hibbert out of the paint George is in trouble.

This is the point isn't it? They brought in AB to help force teams like the Pacers to have to move their bigs out of the paint. It's a very simple concept. Melo got by his man, but Hibbert would be there waiting. The Pacers maintain their defensive composure very well. Still you can get them out of it if you can effectively score in the mid range off PnP and get their defenders at a disadvantage. When you go ISO you play right into the Pacers hands. The Pacers had the #1 ISO defense in the league. Chicago is probably right up there. You can't beat those teams that way. AB and Beno help to add another layer of complexity to the offense and opens up the floor for Melo and our other scorers.

This video demonstrates some of the problems AB can cause for the Pacer Bigs trying to chase him out away from the basket. They just aren't as good away from the basket trying to stop quick and agile bigs that can shoot like AB.

yellowboy90 wrote:The Knicks ran less iso than the regular season numbers in the pacer series through the first 4 games and I'm pretty sure the trend continued the last 2.

It almost didn't matter how many ISO plays the Knicks ran in the Pacer series since the Offense was often stagnant and reduced to just Melo, Felton, JR or bust. This team needed more real options. Too many of the players gave us next to nothing offensively. That won't be a problem this year when you look at the roster now. AB, Beno, THJ and MWP can offer more fire power than we had last year.

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:People are down on Bargs because of his rebounding and team D. It's about removing 1-2 misses from his offense that he had to take in Toronto to get his offense back up to par.

I agree, but I think it's really shortsighted. This team didn't have anyone who could produce 50%+ from mid range last year. If teams are going to try to take away PnR and drives to the basket like the Pacers, then you have to be able to hit shots they leave open. Beno and AB can do that. They both have the skill of being able to knock down the Mid Range jumper. We'll still have the 3pt shooting and ISO plays, but we'll be adding good mid range, PnP offense too.

Woody is gonna be able to put AB in better scoring situations. AB won't have to carry the team and I think that's going to help him tremendously. If Woody can get AB to focus more on his defense and rebounding then he'll reach his full potential. He doesn't have to be the greatest rebounder or defender. He simply has to improve his effort on that end.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/sam-mitchell-disappointed-in-andrea-bargnani-development-raptors/

read that article.. not only was he coddled, but mitchell as let go because bargnani was not comfortable with a tough , gritty coach. remember mitchell was a great coach for Bosh, he led the raps to the playoffs, won coach of the year and then was fired? why? to cow tow to soft azz Bargnani.. that is why the raps got in guys like delfino, garbajosa, guys he felt comfortable with.. and what was the result? the raps sucked!!

There is a lot of wishful thinking going on in this thread... woodson first of all is not as good of a coach as mitchell, and woodson is not a good offensive coach, so all this talk of putting AB in better scoring situations is hilarious...

Beno and AB can do that. They both have the skill of being able to knock down the Mid Range jumper. We'll still have the 3pt shooting and ISO plays, but we'll be adding good mid range, PnP offense too.

you make them sound like stockton and malone.. let me ask you, why was no one knocking down the raps door for bargnani and then offering beno more than a vet deal? I mean most of these GM's and scouts are pretty darn bright... both guys were attainable, why not go after them?

This surely will be an interesting season... The bargnani threads are going to be classics..

TKF, Mitchell was fired in 2008! He can say now that he wasn't allowed to coach AB as tough as he wanted, but really that sounds like an excuse. You can still find ways to challenge players without getting nasty and angry with them. Mitchell's style wore on his players beside AB and didn't make the brass happy. If the brass told him not to push AB then they certainly didn't fire him for how AB turned out. Also how can you say Mitchell is better than Woody?

This is what was said about the Raptors playing style when they fired Mitchell:

The Raptors were ranked last in the NBA in fast-break points heading into Wednesday's games, and Triano said he wants the team to play faster.

"I think running becomes a mind-set and a habit," he said. "I think if it's not enforced it becomes easy to walk the ball up the court.

"We're committed to trying to find easier ways to score the basketball."

The Raps were clearly not being coached in a way the brass wanted to see the team play. Sounds like Mitchell was fired because of his coaching style and not AB!!! As for Wood not being as good an offensive coach as Mitchell, well Woody had the #3 offense last year. Mitchell was watching on TV somewhere.

As for me making Beno and AB sound like Stockton and Malone, well of course they won't be on that level, but you can get a good level of that style of BB from them, because they operate at a high efficiency in the PnP. The stats don't lie. Both Beno and AB are at 50% in the mid range where they run PnP.

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=2757
http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=200745

The thing is that this is what they both do well. There's no argument you can concoct that can refute the evidence in the stats or the videos that clearly show that both AB and Beno are very efficient PnP players. That's a part of the game that few players really excel. Mainly because most players can't hit the mid range jumper like they both can. When AB comes out to set the pick and Beno comes around it, either player that is open can hit the shot at a high %. That's what makes the play successful. What can you say to refute this concept.

here is a quote from the article since I guess you didn't read it.

“I wasn’t allowed to coach Andrea the same way I was allowed to coach Jose (Calderon),” Mitchell told Tim & Sid on Sportsnet 590 The Fan on Wednesday. “I was a hard ass on Jose; I was hard on him, but look at the type of player he turned out to be.

“I was not allowed to be that tough on Andrea because within the organization we felt he couldn’t take it. And my whole thing was if he can’t take it then we can’t build around him. And no one thought Jose could take it, and Jose did.”

Mitchell was fired because he wanted to dig into AB's azz.. bargs could not take it... mitchell had the raps in the playoffs, he also won coach of the year, I don't want to hear this crap it was because of his coaching..

Bargnani is SOFT... and now you guys are trying to sell him as some GEM with a load of untapped potential.... another spin job bro... you have to stop absolving the player and making everything about circumstances.. bargnani is what he is because of HIM.. and when he comes here and you find out that the knicks are no better... I hope you just admit it and not blame someone else... or make another excuse..

The thing is that this is what they both do well. There's no argument you can concoct that can refute the evidence in the stats or the videos that clearly show that both AB and Beno are very efficient PnP players. That's a part of the game that few players really excel. Mainly because most players can't hit the mid range jumper like they both can. When AB comes out to set the pick and Beno comes around it, either player that is open can hit the shot at a high %. That's what makes the play successful. What can you say to refute this concept.

just a question.. neither guy are young players in the sense of time in the league.. both have enough data and scouting to see what they are as players.. why was one player available for peanuts and the other pretty much cast off from his team?

you keep talking about them being efficient PNP players, so was AMARE, how well did that go once carmelo got to the team..

We are not playing pick and roll with 3 sticky finger iso players in carmelo, JR smith and now bargnani.. it is a dream bro,.. and to top it off both beno and AB are not good enough to run your offense through if you want to win, otherwise they would not be here in NY!!! they would be starting for the last team that had them..

well Woody had the #3 offense last year.

yet as you guys claimed our offense sucked in the playoffs.. so what was it, bad coaching?

you keep talking about them being efficient PNP players, so was AMARE, how well did that go once carmelo got to the team..

I think it was going fine until Amare threw out his back dunking before the Celts game and then his knees gave out. Also, as Nix has pointed out on numerous occasions Bargs injuries are different then Amare's in that they are not chronic or career threatening.
In regards to one player being available for peanuts I assume you are talking about Udrih? It seems a bit hypocritical to post a long list of guys that signed for 3.1 mil or less and then criticize the player the Knicks get because the cba forced him into a situation where he had to sign for the vet minimum doesn't it? Also, Bargs needed to be moved from Toronto. Both the raps and Bargs needed a change. That happens sometimes.

i figured someone would say this.. but you didn't read my post.. I said beno and AB have been in the league, those guys who they are... when I made that list, I was highlighting guys who were young, guys we could build and develop with.. guys like BJ mullens and DJ augustine.... these were guys who i felt could not only fill in and give us what we needed, but give us youth to look at for the future..

the rest of that list had guys who I felt were just better than beno and AB who came at a bit steeper price.. so no, it is not hypocritical, i was clear at what I said, you need to read it..

As far as amare, other than his knees.. the worst thing for his game was carmelo....

Well there is a reason Amare can't have his contract insured and it isn't Melo. Also, you had some pretty long in the tooth guys on your list if I recall correctly. Jermaine O'Neal, Brand etc. It seems that if the guy is a Knick pick up he can't be good value and he gets criticized. Beno was a good signing but doesn't seem to fit the criteria of, the knicks didn't get him.

again, if you paid attention, I never even mentioned oneal or brand, the list wasn't a list of guys I endorsed, but a list of FA's... as I said, I talked mostly about younger players, or guys who were an upgrade over beno or AB.. guys who were actually good and didn't have the long history of baggage and excuses..

It is August so it isn't that hard to find posts. Here is yours.

Here is a list of the free agents that signed this summer and their approximate first year salaries.
anyone cares to elaborate on what they see?

Austin Daye to Raptors....for......$950,000
Alan Andersen to Brooklyn....for....$950,000
Byron Mullens to Clippers....for....$950,000
Wesley Johnson to Lakers....for....$950,000
D.J. Augustin to Raptors....for.....$1.025mil
Omri Casspi to Rockets...for....$1.025mil
Reggie Williams to Rockets....$1.025mil
D.J. White to Brooklyn....for....$1.025mil
Anthony Murrow to Pelican...for....$1.185mil
Jordan Farmar to Lakers.....for....$1.185mil
Nick Young to Lakers....for $1.185mil
Ryan Hollins to Clippers....for....$1.185mil
Francisco Garcia to Rockets....for.....$1.265mil
Shaun Livingston to Brooklyn....for....$1.265mil
Andray Blatche to Brooklyn...for....$1.4mil
DeJuan Blair to Mavs....for....$1.4mil
Derrick Fisher to Thunder....for....$1.4mil
Earl Watson to Portland...for....$1.4mil
John Lucas to Utah...for....$1.6mil
Ronnie Turiaf to Wolves...for...$1.6mil
Toney Douglas to Warriors....for.....$1.6mil
Jermaine O'Neal to Warriors....for....$1.9mil
Nate Robsinson to Denver...for....$1.9mil
Darren Collison to Clippers....for....$1.9mil
C.J. Watson to Pacers....for....$2.015mil
Eric Maynor to Wizads...for....$2.015mil
C.J. Miles to Cavs....for....$2.225mil
Chris Kaman to Lakers...for....$2.5mil
Tyler Hansbrough to Raptors....for....$2.5mil
Chauncy Billups to Pistons...for....$2.5mil
Will Bynum to Pistons....for.....$2.5mil
Demarre Carroll to Hawks....for.....$2.5mil
Josh Roberts to Bobcats....for....$2.625mil
Wayne Ellington to Mavs....for...$2.625mil
Greg Steisma to Pelicans....for.....$2.625mil
Chris Copeland to Pacers....for....$2.9mil
Dorell Wright to Thunder....for....$2.9mil
Marco Belinelli to Spurs....for....$2.9mil
Mike Dunleavy to Bulls....for.....$2.9mil
Randy Foye to Denver....for....$2.9mil
Devin Harris to Mavs...for....$2.9mil then $1.3mil
Andre Kirilenko to Brooklyn....for.....$3.183mil
Gary Neal to Bucks....for....$3.5mil
Mareese Speights to Warriors...for....$3.75mil
Samuel Dalembert to Mavs....for.....$3.75mil
Elton Brand to Hawks.....for.....$4mil

You even included guys like Brand that made more then the Knicks could offer so I think you did emphasize Brand.

NO I DID NOT EMPHASIZE BRAND.. where in any of my conversations did I emphasize brand? this is silly. for that matter, I emphasized dorell wright, josh mcroberts, I mean they are all on the list.. right? I mean stop being silly. I never emphasized brand and you damn well know it.. If you are going to quote me, at least have some integrity and don't misrepresent what I said or make up things I didn't say..

I simply posted a list of free agents.. I mean, these guys were all FA's, right? I specifically talked about a few, I didn't mention players who made a certain amount because we could not get them..

here is a link to the thread, show me where I once emphasized brand?!!
http://74.208.110.179/forum/topic.asp?t=45340&page=3

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:People are down on Bargs because of his rebounding and team D. It's about removing 1-2 misses from his offense that he had to take in Toronto to get his offense back up to par.

I agree, but I think it's really shortsighted. This team didn't have anyone who could produce 50%+ from mid range last year. If teams are going to try to take away PnR and drives to the basket like the Pacers, then you have to be able to hit shots they leave open. Beno and AB can do that. They both have the skill of being able to knock down the Mid Range jumper. We'll still have the 3pt shooting and ISO plays, but we'll be adding good mid range, PnP offense too.

Woody is gonna be able to put AB in better scoring situations. AB won't have to carry the team and I think that's going to help him tremendously. If Woody can get AB to focus more on his defense and rebounding then he'll reach his full potential. He doesn't have to be the greatest rebounder or defender. He simply has to improve his effort on that end.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/sam-mitchell-disappointed-in-andrea-bargnani-development-raptors/

read that article.. not only was he coddled, but mitchell as let go because bargnani was not comfortable with a tough , gritty coach. remember mitchell was a great coach for Bosh, he led the raps to the playoffs, won coach of the year and then was fired? why? to cow tow to soft azz Bargnani.. that is why the raps got in guys like delfino, garbajosa, guys he felt comfortable with.. and what was the result? the raps sucked!!

There is a lot of wishful thinking going on in this thread... woodson first of all is not as good of a coach as mitchell, and woodson is not a good offensive coach, so all this talk of putting AB in better scoring situations is hilarious...

Beno and AB can do that. They both have the skill of being able to knock down the Mid Range jumper. We'll still have the 3pt shooting and ISO plays, but we'll be adding good mid range, PnP offense too.

you make them sound like stockton and malone.. let me ask you, why was no one knocking down the raps door for bargnani and then offering beno more than a vet deal? I mean most of these GM's and scouts are pretty darn bright... both guys were attainable, why not go after them?

This surely will be an interesting season... The bargnani threads are going to be classics..

TKF, Mitchell was fired in 2008! He can say now that he wasn't allowed to coach AB as tough as he wanted, but really that sounds like an excuse. You can still find ways to challenge players without getting nasty and angry with them. Mitchell's style wore on his players beside AB and didn't make the brass happy. If the brass told him not to push AB then they certainly didn't fire him for how AB turned out. Also how can you say Mitchell is better than Woody?

This is what was said about the Raptors playing style when they fired Mitchell:

The Raptors were ranked last in the NBA in fast-break points heading into Wednesday's games, and Triano said he wants the team to play faster.

"I think running becomes a mind-set and a habit," he said. "I think if it's not enforced it becomes easy to walk the ball up the court.

"We're committed to trying to find easier ways to score the basketball."

The Raps were clearly not being coached in a way the brass wanted to see the team play. Sounds like Mitchell was fired because of his coaching style and not AB!!! As for Wood not being as good an offensive coach as Mitchell, well Woody had the #3 offense last year. Mitchell was watching on TV somewhere.

As for me making Beno and AB sound like Stockton and Malone, well of course they won't be on that level, but you can get a good level of that style of BB from them, because they operate at a high efficiency in the PnP. The stats don't lie. Both Beno and AB are at 50% in the mid range where they run PnP.

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=2757
http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=200745

The thing is that this is what they both do well. There's no argument you can concoct that can refute the evidence in the stats or the videos that clearly show that both AB and Beno are very efficient PnP players. That's a part of the game that few players really excel. Mainly because most players can't hit the mid range jumper like they both can. When AB comes out to set the pick and Beno comes around it, either player that is open can hit the shot at a high %. That's what makes the play successful. What can you say to refute this concept.

here is a quote from the article since I guess you didn't read it.

“I wasn’t allowed to coach Andrea the same way I was allowed to coach Jose (Calderon),” Mitchell told Tim & Sid on Sportsnet 590 The Fan on Wednesday. “I was a hard ass on Jose; I was hard on him, but look at the type of player he turned out to be.

“I was not allowed to be that tough on Andrea because within the organization we felt he couldn’t take it. And my whole thing was if he can’t take it then we can’t build around him. And no one thought Jose could take it, and Jose did.”

Mitchell was fired because he wanted to dig into AB's azz.. bargs could not take it... mitchell had the raps in the playoffs, he also won coach of the year, I don't want to hear this crap it was because of his coaching..

Bargnani is SOFT... and now you guys are trying to sell him as some GEM with a load of untapped potential.... another spin job bro... you have to stop absolving the player and making everything about circumstances.. bargnani is what he is because of HIM.. and when he comes here and you find out that the knicks are no better... I hope you just admit it and not blame someone else... or make another excuse..

The thing is that this is what they both do well. There's no argument you can concoct that can refute the evidence in the stats or the videos that clearly show that both AB and Beno are very efficient PnP players. That's a part of the game that few players really excel. Mainly because most players can't hit the mid range jumper like they both can. When AB comes out to set the pick and Beno comes around it, either player that is open can hit the shot at a high %. That's what makes the play successful. What can you say to refute this concept.

just a question.. neither guy are young players in the sense of time in the league.. both have enough data and scouting to see what they are as players.. why was one player available for peanuts and the other pretty much cast off from his team?

you keep talking about them being efficient PNP players, so was AMARE, how well did that go once carmelo got to the team..

We are not playing pick and roll with 3 sticky finger iso players in carmelo, JR smith and now bargnani.. it is a dream bro,.. and to top it off both beno and AB are not good enough to run your offense through if you want to win, otherwise they would not be here in NY!!! they would be starting for the last team that had them..

well Woody had the #3 offense last year.

yet as you guys claimed our offense sucked in the playoffs.. so what was it, bad coaching?

you keep talking about them being efficient PNP players, so was AMARE, how well did that go once carmelo got to the team..

I think it was going fine until Amare threw out his back dunking before the Celts game and then his knees gave out. Also, as Nix has pointed out on numerous occasions Bargs injuries are different then Amare's in that they are not chronic or career threatening.
In regards to one player being available for peanuts I assume you are talking about Udrih? It seems a bit hypocritical to post a long list of guys that signed for 3.1 mil or less and then criticize the player the Knicks get because the cba forced him into a situation where he had to sign for the vet minimum doesn't it? Also, Bargs needed to be moved from Toronto. Both the raps and Bargs needed a change. That happens sometimes.

i figured someone would say this.. but you didn't read my post.. I said beno and AB have been in the league, those guys who they are... when I made that list, I was highlighting guys who were young, guys we could build and develop with.. guys like BJ mullens and DJ augustine.... these were guys who i felt could not only fill in and give us what we needed, but give us youth to look at for the future..

the rest of that list had guys who I felt were just better than beno and AB who came at a bit steeper price.. so no, it is not hypocritical, i was clear at what I said, you need to read it..

As far as amare, other than his knees.. the worst thing for his game was carmelo....

Well there is a reason Amare can't have his contract insured and it isn't Melo. Also, you had some pretty long in the tooth guys on your list if I recall correctly. Jermaine O'Neal, Brand etc. It seems that if the guy is a Knick pick up he can't be good value and he gets criticized. Beno was a good signing but doesn't seem to fit the criteria of, the knicks didn't get him.

again, if you paid attention, I never even mentioned oneal or brand, the list wasn't a list of guys I endorsed, but a list of FA's... as I said, I talked mostly about younger players, or guys who were an upgrade over beno or AB.. guys who were actually good and didn't have the long history of baggage and excuses..

It is August so it isn't that hard to find posts. Here is yours.

Here is a list of the free agents that signed this summer and their approximate first year salaries.
anyone cares to elaborate on what they see?

Austin Daye to Raptors....for......$950,000
Alan Andersen to Brooklyn....for....$950,000
Byron Mullens to Clippers....for....$950,000
Wesley Johnson to Lakers....for....$950,000
D.J. Augustin to Raptors....for.....$1.025mil
Omri Casspi to Rockets...for....$1.025mil
Reggie Williams to Rockets....$1.025mil
D.J. White to Brooklyn....for....$1.025mil
Anthony Murrow to Pelican...for....$1.185mil
Jordan Farmar to Lakers.....for....$1.185mil
Nick Young to Lakers....for $1.185mil
Ryan Hollins to Clippers....for....$1.185mil
Francisco Garcia to Rockets....for.....$1.265mil
Shaun Livingston to Brooklyn....for....$1.265mil
Andray Blatche to Brooklyn...for....$1.4mil
DeJuan Blair to Mavs....for....$1.4mil
Derrick Fisher to Thunder....for....$1.4mil
Earl Watson to Portland...for....$1.4mil
John Lucas to Utah...for....$1.6mil
Ronnie Turiaf to Wolves...for...$1.6mil
Toney Douglas to Warriors....for.....$1.6mil
Jermaine O'Neal to Warriors....for....$1.9mil
Nate Robsinson to Denver...for....$1.9mil
Darren Collison to Clippers....for....$1.9mil
C.J. Watson to Pacers....for....$2.015mil
Eric Maynor to Wizads...for....$2.015mil
C.J. Miles to Cavs....for....$2.225mil
Chris Kaman to Lakers...for....$2.5mil
Tyler Hansbrough to Raptors....for....$2.5mil
Chauncy Billups to Pistons...for....$2.5mil
Will Bynum to Pistons....for.....$2.5mil
Demarre Carroll to Hawks....for.....$2.5mil
Josh Roberts to Bobcats....for....$2.625mil
Wayne Ellington to Mavs....for...$2.625mil
Greg Steisma to Pelicans....for.....$2.625mil
Chris Copeland to Pacers....for....$2.9mil
Dorell Wright to Thunder....for....$2.9mil
Marco Belinelli to Spurs....for....$2.9mil
Mike Dunleavy to Bulls....for.....$2.9mil
Randy Foye to Denver....for....$2.9mil
Devin Harris to Mavs...for....$2.9mil then $1.3mil
Andre Kirilenko to Brooklyn....for.....$3.183mil
Gary Neal to Bucks....for....$3.5mil
Mareese Speights to Warriors...for....$3.75mil
Samuel Dalembert to Mavs....for.....$3.75mil
Elton Brand to Hawks.....for.....$4mil

You even included guys like Brand that made more then the Knicks could offer so I think you did emphasize Brand.

NO I DID NOT EMPHASIZE BRAND.. where in any of my conversations did I emphasize brand? this is silly. for that matter, I emphasized dorell wright, josh mcroberts, I mean they are all on the list.. right? I mean stop being silly. I never emphasized brand and you damn well know it.. If you are going to quote me, at least have some integrity and don't misrepresent what I said or make up things I didn't say..

I simply posted a list of free agents.. I mean, these guys were all FA's, right? I specifically talked about a few, I didn't mention players who made a certain amount because we could not get them..

here is a link to the thread, show me where I once emphasized brand?!!
http://74.208.110.179/forum/topic.asp?t=45340&page=3

tkf wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Our #1 offensive play is the PNR with Felton & Chandler. Chandler connects at 64.75% and Felton connects at 52% or Pablo at 59.65%. As well as the kick outs that lead to ball swings and open 3s.

Bargs impact will be that he will allow Melo to matchup mostly against SFs instead of PFs. So If the PNR is defended well when we go to Melo in the post or iso as the 2nd option Melo will be able to for the most part have easier matchups. There aren't many SFs that can guard Melo in the post. Example last playoffs Boston wouldn't have been able to put Bass on Melo with Barg's in the lineup.

An Artest, Melo, Bargs lineup with Melo running the PNR with Bargs would be very hard to stop as well and would be very good for spurts of a game depending on if they are getting killed on the glass or defensively. Either the paint would be wide open for Melo or Melo can pad some ast on the pop.

Bargs also takes away the dependence on JR Smith to be a playmaker. Instead we could run PNP/PNR with Bargs and Smith can do what he does best which is spot up shooting. Felton/Bargs PNP just like Melo example before gives Felton more opportunities to attack the paint if the big commits to Bargs. Felton doesn't have to worry about the crowded paint as much.

We have more OPTIONS! That's what seems to be lost on those who don't like the move. It's not about AB being an All Star. It's about how this team will be able to be more effective on offense in playoff situations. We really saw how limited the offense was in the playoffs. Kidd was done. JR was done. Felton faded. Melo had too much on his shoulders again. This team should have more help this time to avoid that happening again. AB helps to add another dimension to the offense along with Beno who has more left in the tank than Kidd did.

AB will also add another dimension on defense too.. A hole... that is also being lost here.. the knicks were not limited because of the ineffectiveness of other players, the knicks were limited because of the way one main player plays... you can plug in this player and that player, but it all comes down to one thing.... who will tie carmelo's hands behind his back so he won't force up 35 shots.. and don't tell me that woodson will redirect the ball from carmelo to bargnani and beno to run pick and roll....

Bargs impact will be that he will allow Melo to matchup mostly against SFs instead of PFs.

you do realize that paul george is a SF right? how is that an advantage for carmelo?

I was clearly talking about in the post which the rest of the paragraph clarified. So I am wondering why you choose to take this one sentence and make this comment?

Regardless George can't guard Anthony. The only thing that stops Anthony from killing George is Hibbert. When Hibbert was out of the game George and West got abused. If Bargs pulls Hibbert out of the paint George is in trouble.

WELL THE article I posted clearly shows that he not only can, but has.. he put the clamps on carmelo in the playoffs... made him look bad at times...

First the article you posted was only after game 3 of the series. George had some nice moments vs Melo of course. Melo also averaged 28.5pts 8rebs on 43% vs the Pacers(clamps?). Statistically Melo had a tougher time vs the Celtics then the Pacers. Yea they claim George guarded Melo one on one, but reality is that Hibbert in the middle was always a 2nd defender. Hibbert not running over to trap Melo to take the ball out of his hands is the only thing that prevents it from being a double. Lets not act like George was left on an Island with Anthony. Hibbert erased many times George got beat and/or made Melo settle for jumper. And when I stated George can't guard Melo it was mean't without Hibbert standing in the paint which was pretty much the point of the post.

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Our #1 offensive play is the PNR with Felton & Chandler. Chandler connects at 64.75% and Felton connects at 52% or Pablo at 59.65%. As well as the kick outs that lead to ball swings and open 3s.

Bargs impact will be that he will allow Melo to matchup mostly against SFs instead of PFs. So If the PNR is defended well when we go to Melo in the post or iso as the 2nd option Melo will be able to for the most part have easier matchups. There aren't many SFs that can guard Melo in the post. Example last playoffs Boston wouldn't have been able to put Bass on Melo with Barg's in the lineup.

An Artest, Melo, Bargs lineup with Melo running the PNR with Bargs would be very hard to stop as well and would be very good for spurts of a game depending on if they are getting killed on the glass or defensively. Either the paint would be wide open for Melo or Melo can pad some ast on the pop.

Bargs also takes away the dependence on JR Smith to be a playmaker. Instead we could run PNP/PNR with Bargs and Smith can do what he does best which is spot up shooting. Felton/Bargs PNP just like Melo example before gives Felton more opportunities to attack the paint if the big commits to Bargs. Felton doesn't have to worry about the crowded paint as much.

We have more OPTIONS! That's what seems to be lost on those who don't like the move. It's not about AB being an All Star. It's about how this team will be able to be more effective on offense in playoff situations. We really saw how limited the offense was in the playoffs. Kidd was done. JR was done. Felton faded. Melo had too much on his shoulders again. This team should have more help this time to avoid that happening again. AB helps to add another dimension to the offense along with Beno who has more left in the tank than Kidd did.

AB will also add another dimension on defense too.. A hole... that is also being lost here.. the knicks were not limited because of the ineffectiveness of other players, the knicks were limited because of the way one main player plays... you can plug in this player and that player, but it all comes down to one thing.... who will tie carmelo's hands behind his back so he won't force up 35 shots.. and don't tell me that woodson will redirect the ball from carmelo to bargnani and beno to run pick and roll....

Bargs impact will be that he will allow Melo to matchup mostly against SFs instead of PFs.

you do realize that paul george is a SF right? how is that an advantage for carmelo?

I was clearly talking about in the post which the rest of the paragraph clarified. So I am wondering why you choose to take this one sentence and make this comment?

Regardless George can't guard Anthony. The only thing that stops Anthony from killing George is Hibbert. When Hibbert was out of the game George and West got abused. If Bargs pulls Hibbert out of the paint George is in trouble.

WELL THE article I posted clearly shows that he not only can, but has.. he put the clamps on carmelo in the playoffs... made him look bad at times...

First the article you posted was only after game 3 of the series. George had some nice moments vs Melo of course. Melo also averaged 28.5pts 8rebs on 43% vs the Pacers(clamps?). Statistically Melo had a tougher time vs the Celtics then the Pacers. Yea they claim George guarded Melo one on one, but reality is that Hibbert in the middle was always a 2nd defender. Hibbert not running over to trap Melo to take the ball out of his hands is the only thing that prevents it from being a double. Lets not act like George was left on an Island with Anthony. Hibbert erased many times George got beat and/or made Melo settle for jumper. And when I stated George can't guard Melo it was mean't without Hibbert standing in the paint which was pretty much the point of the post.

43%FG and 51%TS is clamps... big time. his regular season numbers were crap to begin with. but those playoff numbers are straight up putrid. his usage relative to the assist rate while he was on the floor was also... putrid.

what does it matter whether hibbert was involved?!? if you are right (not really), then where were the head and ball fakes, the step backs, the dishing the ball off underneath, the 10-15 trips to the line, the getting hibbert in foul trouble?

melo has tunnelvision and is lacking in imagination, guile, savvy, versatility. the coach is a knucklehead for not teaching him how to play the right way. and if it isn't the coach then guess what the guy is uncoachable. where was the adjustment, the adaptability, the cohesion, the resilience?

nowhere.

let me guess: his supporting cast didn't step up.

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:People are down on Bargs because of his rebounding and team D. It's about removing 1-2 misses from his offense that he had to take in Toronto to get his offense back up to par.

I agree, but I think it's really shortsighted. This team didn't have anyone who could produce 50%+ from mid range last year. If teams are going to try to take away PnR and drives to the basket like the Pacers, then you have to be able to hit shots they leave open. Beno and AB can do that. They both have the skill of being able to knock down the Mid Range jumper. We'll still have the 3pt shooting and ISO plays, but we'll be adding good mid range, PnP offense too.

Woody is gonna be able to put AB in better scoring situations. AB won't have to carry the team and I think that's going to help him tremendously. If Woody can get AB to focus more on his defense and rebounding then he'll reach his full potential. He doesn't have to be the greatest rebounder or defender. He simply has to improve his effort on that end.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/sam-mitchell-disappointed-in-andrea-bargnani-development-raptors/

read that article.. not only was he coddled, but mitchell as let go because bargnani was not comfortable with a tough , gritty coach. remember mitchell was a great coach for Bosh, he led the raps to the playoffs, won coach of the year and then was fired? why? to cow tow to soft azz Bargnani.. that is why the raps got in guys like delfino, garbajosa, guys he felt comfortable with.. and what was the result? the raps sucked!!

There is a lot of wishful thinking going on in this thread... woodson first of all is not as good of a coach as mitchell, and woodson is not a good offensive coach, so all this talk of putting AB in better scoring situations is hilarious...

Beno and AB can do that. They both have the skill of being able to knock down the Mid Range jumper. We'll still have the 3pt shooting and ISO plays, but we'll be adding good mid range, PnP offense too.

you make them sound like stockton and malone.. let me ask you, why was no one knocking down the raps door for bargnani and then offering beno more than a vet deal? I mean most of these GM's and scouts are pretty darn bright... both guys were attainable, why not go after them?

This surely will be an interesting season... The bargnani threads are going to be classics..

TKF, Mitchell was fired in 2008! He can say now that he wasn't allowed to coach AB as tough as he wanted, but really that sounds like an excuse. You can still find ways to challenge players without getting nasty and angry with them. Mitchell's style wore on his players beside AB and didn't make the brass happy. If the brass told him not to push AB then they certainly didn't fire him for how AB turned out. Also how can you say Mitchell is better than Woody?

This is what was said about the Raptors playing style when they fired Mitchell:

The Raptors were ranked last in the NBA in fast-break points heading into Wednesday's games, and Triano said he wants the team to play faster.

"I think running becomes a mind-set and a habit," he said. "I think if it's not enforced it becomes easy to walk the ball up the court.

"We're committed to trying to find easier ways to score the basketball."

The Raps were clearly not being coached in a way the brass wanted to see the team play. Sounds like Mitchell was fired because of his coaching style and not AB!!! As for Wood not being as good an offensive coach as Mitchell, well Woody had the #3 offense last year. Mitchell was watching on TV somewhere.

As for me making Beno and AB sound like Stockton and Malone, well of course they won't be on that level, but you can get a good level of that style of BB from them, because they operate at a high efficiency in the PnP. The stats don't lie. Both Beno and AB are at 50% in the mid range where they run PnP.

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=2757
http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=200745

The thing is that this is what they both do well. There's no argument you can concoct that can refute the evidence in the stats or the videos that clearly show that both AB and Beno are very efficient PnP players. That's a part of the game that few players really excel. Mainly because most players can't hit the mid range jumper like they both can. When AB comes out to set the pick and Beno comes around it, either player that is open can hit the shot at a high %. That's what makes the play successful. What can you say to refute this concept.

here is a quote from the article since I guess you didn't read it.

“I wasn’t allowed to coach Andrea the same way I was allowed to coach Jose (Calderon),” Mitchell told Tim & Sid on Sportsnet 590 The Fan on Wednesday. “I was a hard ass on Jose; I was hard on him, but look at the type of player he turned out to be.

“I was not allowed to be that tough on Andrea because within the organization we felt he couldn’t take it. And my whole thing was if he can’t take it then we can’t build around him. And no one thought Jose could take it, and Jose did.”

Mitchell was fired because he wanted to dig into AB's azz.. bargs could not take it... mitchell had the raps in the playoffs, he also won coach of the year, I don't want to hear this crap it was because of his coaching..

Bargnani is SOFT... and now you guys are trying to sell him as some GEM with a load of untapped potential.... another spin job bro... you have to stop absolving the player and making everything about circumstances.. bargnani is what he is because of HIM.. and when he comes here and you find out that the knicks are no better... I hope you just admit it and not blame someone else... or make another excuse..

The thing is that this is what they both do well. There's no argument you can concoct that can refute the evidence in the stats or the videos that clearly show that both AB and Beno are very efficient PnP players. That's a part of the game that few players really excel. Mainly because most players can't hit the mid range jumper like they both can. When AB comes out to set the pick and Beno comes around it, either player that is open can hit the shot at a high %. That's what makes the play successful. What can you say to refute this concept.

just a question.. neither guy are young players in the sense of time in the league.. both have enough data and scouting to see what they are as players.. why was one player available for peanuts and the other pretty much cast off from his team?

you keep talking about them being efficient PNP players, so was AMARE, how well did that go once carmelo got to the team..

We are not playing pick and roll with 3 sticky finger iso players in carmelo, JR smith and now bargnani.. it is a dream bro,.. and to top it off both beno and AB are not good enough to run your offense through if you want to win, otherwise they would not be here in NY!!! they would be starting for the last team that had them..

well Woody had the #3 offense last year.

yet as you guys claimed our offense sucked in the playoffs.. so what was it, bad coaching?

you keep talking about them being efficient PNP players, so was AMARE, how well did that go once carmelo got to the team..

I think it was going fine until Amare threw out his back dunking before the Celts game and then his knees gave out. Also, as Nix has pointed out on numerous occasions Bargs injuries are different then Amare's in that they are not chronic or career threatening.
In regards to one player being available for peanuts I assume you are talking about Udrih? It seems a bit hypocritical to post a long list of guys that signed for 3.1 mil or less and then criticize the player the Knicks get because the cba forced him into a situation where he had to sign for the vet minimum doesn't it? Also, Bargs needed to be moved from Toronto. Both the raps and Bargs needed a change. That happens sometimes.

i figured someone would say this.. but you didn't read my post.. I said beno and AB have been in the league, those guys who they are... when I made that list, I was highlighting guys who were young, guys we could build and develop with.. guys like BJ mullens and DJ augustine.... these were guys who i felt could not only fill in and give us what we needed, but give us youth to look at for the future..

the rest of that list had guys who I felt were just better than beno and AB who came at a bit steeper price.. so no, it is not hypocritical, i was clear at what I said, you need to read it..

As far as amare, other than his knees.. the worst thing for his game was carmelo....

Well there is a reason Amare can't have his contract insured and it isn't Melo. Also, you had some pretty long in the tooth guys on your list if I recall correctly. Jermaine O'Neal, Brand etc. It seems that if the guy is a Knick pick up he can't be good value and he gets criticized. Beno was a good signing but doesn't seem to fit the criteria of, the knicks didn't get him.

again, if you paid attention, I never even mentioned oneal or brand, the list wasn't a list of guys I endorsed, but a list of FA's... as I said, I talked mostly about younger players, or guys who were an upgrade over beno or AB.. guys who were actually good and didn't have the long history of baggage and excuses..

It is August so it isn't that hard to find posts. Here is yours.

Here is a list of the free agents that signed this summer and their approximate first year salaries.
anyone cares to elaborate on what they see?

Austin Daye to Raptors....for......$950,000
Alan Andersen to Brooklyn....for....$950,000
Byron Mullens to Clippers....for....$950,000
Wesley Johnson to Lakers....for....$950,000
D.J. Augustin to Raptors....for.....$1.025mil
Omri Casspi to Rockets...for....$1.025mil
Reggie Williams to Rockets....$1.025mil
D.J. White to Brooklyn....for....$1.025mil
Anthony Murrow to Pelican...for....$1.185mil
Jordan Farmar to Lakers.....for....$1.185mil
Nick Young to Lakers....for $1.185mil
Ryan Hollins to Clippers....for....$1.185mil
Francisco Garcia to Rockets....for.....$1.265mil
Shaun Livingston to Brooklyn....for....$1.265mil
Andray Blatche to Brooklyn...for....$1.4mil
DeJuan Blair to Mavs....for....$1.4mil
Derrick Fisher to Thunder....for....$1.4mil
Earl Watson to Portland...for....$1.4mil
John Lucas to Utah...for....$1.6mil
Ronnie Turiaf to Wolves...for...$1.6mil
Toney Douglas to Warriors....for.....$1.6mil
Jermaine O'Neal to Warriors....for....$1.9mil
Nate Robsinson to Denver...for....$1.9mil
Darren Collison to Clippers....for....$1.9mil
C.J. Watson to Pacers....for....$2.015mil
Eric Maynor to Wizads...for....$2.015mil
C.J. Miles to Cavs....for....$2.225mil
Chris Kaman to Lakers...for....$2.5mil
Tyler Hansbrough to Raptors....for....$2.5mil
Chauncy Billups to Pistons...for....$2.5mil
Will Bynum to Pistons....for.....$2.5mil
Demarre Carroll to Hawks....for.....$2.5mil
Josh Roberts to Bobcats....for....$2.625mil
Wayne Ellington to Mavs....for...$2.625mil
Greg Steisma to Pelicans....for.....$2.625mil
Chris Copeland to Pacers....for....$2.9mil
Dorell Wright to Thunder....for....$2.9mil
Marco Belinelli to Spurs....for....$2.9mil
Mike Dunleavy to Bulls....for.....$2.9mil
Randy Foye to Denver....for....$2.9mil
Devin Harris to Mavs...for....$2.9mil then $1.3mil
Andre Kirilenko to Brooklyn....for.....$3.183mil
Gary Neal to Bucks....for....$3.5mil
Mareese Speights to Warriors...for....$3.75mil
Samuel Dalembert to Mavs....for.....$3.75mil
Elton Brand to Hawks.....for.....$4mil

You even included guys like Brand that made more then the Knicks could offer so I think you did emphasize Brand.

NO I DID NOT EMPHASIZE BRAND.. where in any of my conversations did I emphasize brand? this is silly. for that matter, I emphasized dorell wright, josh mcroberts, I mean they are all on the list.. right? I mean stop being silly. I never emphasized brand and you damn well know it.. If you are going to quote me, at least have some integrity and don't misrepresent what I said or make up things I didn't say..

I simply posted a list of free agents.. I mean, these guys were all FA's, right? I specifically talked about a few, I didn't mention players who made a certain amount because we could not get them..

here is a link to the thread, show me where I once emphasized brand?!!
http://74.208.110.179/forum/topic.asp?t=45340&page=3

Maybe you nade a mistake with your list. Brand was paid more then the Knicks could offer. I thought you had him on the list even though he was paid more meney then the Knicks could offer because you also kept posting that guys should come to play for less in NY because Melo is in NY. Why was he on the list?

that is just a list of free agents.. It is not MY list.. I posted the list of what the Free agents received, but only focused on those who made money within the knicks range of affordability, which is why I mentioned guys like Bj mullens and DJ augustine..

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Our #1 offensive play is the PNR with Felton & Chandler. Chandler connects at 64.75% and Felton connects at 52% or Pablo at 59.65%. As well as the kick outs that lead to ball swings and open 3s.

Bargs impact will be that he will allow Melo to matchup mostly against SFs instead of PFs. So If the PNR is defended well when we go to Melo in the post or iso as the 2nd option Melo will be able to for the most part have easier matchups. There aren't many SFs that can guard Melo in the post. Example last playoffs Boston wouldn't have been able to put Bass on Melo with Barg's in the lineup.

An Artest, Melo, Bargs lineup with Melo running the PNR with Bargs would be very hard to stop as well and would be very good for spurts of a game depending on if they are getting killed on the glass or defensively. Either the paint would be wide open for Melo or Melo can pad some ast on the pop.

Bargs also takes away the dependence on JR Smith to be a playmaker. Instead we could run PNP/PNR with Bargs and Smith can do what he does best which is spot up shooting. Felton/Bargs PNP just like Melo example before gives Felton more opportunities to attack the paint if the big commits to Bargs. Felton doesn't have to worry about the crowded paint as much.

We have more OPTIONS! That's what seems to be lost on those who don't like the move. It's not about AB being an All Star. It's about how this team will be able to be more effective on offense in playoff situations. We really saw how limited the offense was in the playoffs. Kidd was done. JR was done. Felton faded. Melo had too much on his shoulders again. This team should have more help this time to avoid that happening again. AB helps to add another dimension to the offense along with Beno who has more left in the tank than Kidd did.

AB will also add another dimension on defense too.. A hole... that is also being lost here.. the knicks were not limited because of the ineffectiveness of other players, the knicks were limited because of the way one main player plays... you can plug in this player and that player, but it all comes down to one thing.... who will tie carmelo's hands behind his back so he won't force up 35 shots.. and don't tell me that woodson will redirect the ball from carmelo to bargnani and beno to run pick and roll....

Bargs impact will be that he will allow Melo to matchup mostly against SFs instead of PFs.

you do realize that paul george is a SF right? how is that an advantage for carmelo?

I was clearly talking about in the post which the rest of the paragraph clarified. So I am wondering why you choose to take this one sentence and make this comment?

Regardless George can't guard Anthony. The only thing that stops Anthony from killing George is Hibbert. When Hibbert was out of the game George and West got abused. If Bargs pulls Hibbert out of the paint George is in trouble.

WELL THE article I posted clearly shows that he not only can, but has.. he put the clamps on carmelo in the playoffs... made him look bad at times...

First the article you posted was only after game 3 of the series. George had some nice moments vs Melo of course. Melo also averaged 28.5pts 8rebs on 43% vs the Pacers(clamps?). Statistically Melo had a tougher time vs the Celtics then the Pacers. Yea they claim George guarded Melo one on one, but reality is that Hibbert in the middle was always a 2nd defender. Hibbert not running over to trap Melo to take the ball out of his hands is the only thing that prevents it from being a double. Lets not act like George was left on an Island with Anthony. Hibbert erased many times George got beat and/or made Melo settle for jumper. And when I stated George can't guard Melo it was mean't without Hibbert standing in the paint which was pretty much the point of the post.

43%FG and 51%TS is clamps... big time. his regular season numbers were crap to begin with. but those playoff numbers are straight up putrid. his usage relative to the assist rate while he was on the floor was also... putrid.

what does it matter whether hibbert was involved?!? if you are right (not really), then where were the head and ball fakes, the step backs, the dishing the ball off underneath, the 10-15 trips to the line, the getting hibbert in foul trouble?

melo has tunnelvision and is lacking in imagination, guile, savvy, versatility. the coach is a knucklehead for not teaching him how to play the right way. and if it isn't the coach then guess what the guy is uncoachable. where was the adjustment, the adaptability, the cohesion, the resilience?

nowhere.

let me guess: his supporting cast didn't step up.

yea people only look at PPG, well carmelo took over 20spg in the playoffs... but he shot a putrid 43%, but as you said, the excuses star to arise..

It was hibbert, he had no help, his shoulder was hurt..... etc