tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:Regarding the salaries of Stat and Melo - I can't say they are terrible. I mean to get a player like Stat without trading anything for him, I can see overpaying. We did give up some good players for Melo. I would have liked to see Gallo stay here. He isn't doing much in Denver, sort of like Felton didn't and think he would have played better here. Anyway looking at the salaries or those two guys we got in Stat and Melo and adding Stats injuries to it, man, it is all the more bizarre that we let Lin walk and the excuse is financial responsibility. LOL, I don't buy it and many don't. It was personal. Just to get things back on track here with Lin and I'll add the "Dolon, I mean Dolan is a moron of an owner" statement again as that calms me.

IMHO we overpaid for Melo and STAT. After 2 years of pure crap basketball and missing out on Lebron the Knicks went into full panic mode and gave a max deal to Amare. As you all know I'm a huge Melo fan but wish we didn't include the picks and could have kept either Chandler or Gallo.

No doubt that Dolan is a moron but maybe he decided to stop overpaying for once with Lin. I truly belive that there is where all the Linrage comes from. Overpay players for years, overpay for our stars but pass on Lin?

Yes. The draft picks was pure BS. The knicks were bidding against themselves as they were in the Amare fiasco.

Lin was personal. But, is it possible that Felton is better for team chemistry? I would have like both Felton and Lin but I would not have wanted Lin alone. To risky.

not sure how you can say the lin thing was personal, but the decision to get felton was better for team chemistry? really? do you honestly believe that.... especially since you feel the decision not to keep lin was personal? how can you trust that... I think you will find this.. felton and amare may recapture some of the chemistry they had briefly, but felton will just be a guy who will hand the ball to carmelo as he post in his "sweet spot".. if chemistry is just doing that, then to hell with chemistry. we were told the knicks not having lin in the playoffs left the team without a distributor and playmaker vs a tough miami team... this is what fans were saying.. now that he is gone, he was a risk to team chemistry... I don't get it..

I don't think that Woody is that dumb - to toss the ball down in the block to Melo on every play. If Amare is playing well and has his jumper going, he will get many touches. But just remember, once it goes into Amare, it never comes out (1.1 assists).

Felton has chemistry with Amare and I believe can/will have it with Melo. Lin did not really have that. Lin is a really good scorer though and can pass. He also has much to work on and improve/prove on.

Felton is an awful outside shooter and does settle for too many jumpers and that does scare me. Nothing is perfect. As I said, I would have loved having both of them for security purposes.

I don't think that Lin would have made a difference in the playoffs. Miami steamrolled OKC with all their talent. We did not stand a chance - maybe we could have won 1 more game. However, it would have been insightful to see how he would have played and handled the pressure of the moment/miami. I don't blame him for not playing (if he had the choice) since it would/might have significantly diminished his contract amount. As far as that was concerned, he had nothing to gain (financially), he could have only lost.

Lets also not ignore the fact that Tyson and Amare do not complement each other at all. They are in each others way. That is not good.

I agree with that point, and this is why I have my reservations with this team.. too many mis matched parts... and management is hell bent on squeezing 20 pounds of beef in a 2 pound bag...

At least we can amicably agree on something

Uptown wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:I dont judge players out context. I can easily say that Amare only won because he played with one of the top PG's of all time (and the most efficient). That would be as dumb as you stating a record out of context. But I have come to expect crap like this out of you and I am ok with it.

I judge players by how they are doing now and what we can expect from them next year.

PHX offered Amare 60 million. The knicks offered 100 million. No other teams made offers. What does that tell you? Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh- errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr - ehhhhhhhhhh. Melo SUX and is a loser! Huh? Did that just pop out?

If Melo became an FA, any and every team would try to get that LOSER if they could.

Have a nice day!

You could also mention that the Phoenix Suns still managed to advance to the WCF one year with Amare sitting out the playoffs with an injury.

That might incite a riot.

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:I dont judge players out context. I can easily say that Amare only won because he played with one of the top PG's of all time (and the most efficient). That would be as dumb as you stating a record out of context. But I have come to expect crap like this out of you and I am ok with it.

I judge players by how they are doing now and what we can expect from them next year.

PHX offered Amare 60 million. The knicks offered 100 million. No other teams made offers. What does that tell you? Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh- errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr - ehhhhhhhhhh. Melo SUX and is a loser! Huh? Did that just pop out?

If Melo became an FA, any and every team would try to get that LOSER if they could.

Have a nice day!

not at the "RIDICULOUS" price we paid....

and 100 million for Amare was not "RIDICULOUS"? If not, where were the other non-ridiculous offers? How many teams would have offered Melo max money as an FA? ALL who could!

I think the Knicks over paid at the time. But now that all the flip floppers have jumped off the Felton bandwagon, I don't think it was as bad - LMFAO!!!!! I do however miss THE MOZ!

In all seriousness, I was the most upset about Chandler - I really liked him here. He has yet to prove me right.

In all seriousness both gallo and chandler are very good players who are not even close to their prime yet.. along with the first and second round picks, giving away anthony randolph and throwing in the huge expiring of curry, we paid a KINGS ransom....

I would straight up trade this entire team for the nuggets roster right now... and when you look at it, almost half of those guys were knicks just a couple of years ago. It kind of gets to me, you know...

I didn't like giving amare 100 mil, but in all fairness, he pretty much came as advertised, played MVP ball the first few months and honestly, had a team of pretty young players playing above .500... how many times do you see players like amare(allstar talent, but not superstar) leading a team of guys like that and they usually are horrible.... I give amare credit for that, plus amare has been part of a winning culture in pheonix, one in which he was one of the teams best performers... but the 100 mil contract was just money, and what I mean is that amare came without the additional cost of young players and first round picks.

Half of them? The only ones who really played (last year) was Gallo and Moz. And Chandler was a FA so he would have not been retained. They did give up too much but only because they could have gotten away with paying less. Curry's expiring was certainly valuable. AR was/is worthless. I would have certainly rather have waited for FAgency if we could. I would have also liked Deron instead but I am not if that would have been the correct decision based on what I have seen from Deron in NJ but I am not sold yet either way.

Amare played below expectations so far. Far below. He had a great half personally though the team was only 28-26 to that point and sliding fast. Outside of that he has been extremely underwhelming.

It was also nice to be part of a winning culture that included the one and only Steve Nash. Marion, JJ, JRich and the rest of them were pretty freakin good too. Put him on a team with no PG and OUCH!! That does not mean he was not talented but he needed a PG to elevate his game. How would he have done if PHX replaced Nash with an old AI or another mediocre player?

Just because we overpaid for Melo does not make me hate him. He is still a solid player who with the right team can be a dominant contributor. As was the case for Paul Pierce.

Melo is not an orchestrator like Lebron or MJ and will never be. He is a dominant scorer that needs an orchestrator. Every team needs that type of leader. That is why I wish we could have gotten Chris Paul or at that point - DWil. We all saw how great Melo was in the olympics when surrounded by talented.

Now, Melo has to improve his shot selection, be less selfish and play consistent defense. I am not blind to his deficiencies. He should be held accountable for that. But I won't blindly hate him for it and believe he can improve on that.

This season will be very enlightening.

i GUESS I view things differently, I think amare has been as advertised until we make the trade to bring carmelo here and his game has not been the same..

As far as the denver team go, what I mean is that they have half of our players.. they now have AR, gallo, chandler, moz, heck even corey brewer is there I think.. LOL

Just because we overpaid for Melo does not make me hate him

true, that makes me dislike dolan.. I dislike carmelo for other reasons...

He is a dominant scorer that needs an orchestrator. Every team needs that type of leader. That is why I wish we could have gotten Chris Paul or at that point - DWil. We all saw how great Melo was in the olympics when surrounded by talented.

I think melo is a very good scorer and a GREat streak scorer.. not dominant.. sorry, there is really nothing that supports that.... I do agree that I wish we had gotten paul or d-wil, but that would have been instead of melo. Look everyone looks great on the olympic team, especially when going against lesser talent most of the time, but you can't fill your NBA team with guys like lebron, wade and kobe, and if you could, why would you need carmelo?

basically what you are saying about carmelo is what I can say about a lot of good all star players... that is fine, but those are not the guys you build around and disrupt your franchise for.. that is my problem.. that's all...

But I won't blindly hate him for it and believe he can improve on that.

that is fine, but odd that after 10 years you expect him to make those changes, but lin was pretty much finished after the miami game....

This season will be very enlightening.

for some it will be, for me, it will be different because I will be following a couple of other teams a bit closer, and I will be more of a spectator with these knicks, although I will root for them to win no doubt.... If you want to use enlightening, I can go with that for now...

Amare's game (and the team) was in decline before Melo got here. And, hey were 12-16 pre trade and 14-14 post trade.

As far as Denvers Knick players, Brewer was not part of the trade (not that you are suggesting this) but I was extremely pissed about that fiasco. He played very meaningful minutes on both Dallas and Denver. AR is AR, Chandler was not going to be resigned and Gallo and Moz were contributors. We don't necessarily disagree about the trade and overpaying though.

Numbers wise, Melo was/is as (nearly (for arguments sake)) dominant of a scorer as Kobe is/was. He is a lesser player but as far as scorer, the numbers do not lie.

Melo looked better than great/everyone on the olympic team. Tyson did not look good on the olympic team.

Melo is in the league of PP. Do you build your team around him? Not sure. But, it all depends on the alternative.\

Melo can change just like PP did when he was coached correctly and was surrounded by supreme talent. He also averaged 3.6 assist last year better than his career average of 3.0. I would like to see it go over 4.0.

I never said that Lin was finished after the Miami game. I did say that they exposed a weakness. He was certainly a contributor in later games.

You have the right as a fan to follow who you want as I have always said, I at least appreciate your honesty and candor.

don't try to oversell pierce having "supreme talent" around him.. rofl, that is such a sorry attempt.. he had good talent around him, good mature talent that fit, but not supreme talent.. come on man.. stop trying to validate carmelo so much.... I am not even sure he is as good as pierce is/ was, plus they are two different players... pierce style allowed him to mesh with various talents....

carmelo did well playing with the elite of the league, unless we are adding kobe, lebron and durant I am not sure I can apply any thing melo did in the olympics to the knicks..

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:I dont judge players out context. I can easily say that Amare only won because he played with one of the top PG's of all time (and the most efficient). That would be as dumb as you stating a record out of context. But I have come to expect crap like this out of you and I am ok with it.

I judge players by how they are doing now and what we can expect from them next year.

PHX offered Amare 60 million. The knicks offered 100 million. No other teams made offers. What does that tell you? Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh- errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr - ehhhhhhhhhh. Melo SUX and is a loser! Huh? Did that just pop out?

If Melo became an FA, any and every team would try to get that LOSER if they could.

Have a nice day!

not at the "RIDICULOUS" price we paid....

and 100 million for Amare was not "RIDICULOUS"? If not, where were the other non-ridiculous offers? How many teams would have offered Melo max money as an FA? ALL who could!

I think the Knicks over paid at the time. But now that all the flip floppers have jumped off the Felton bandwagon, I don't think it was as bad - LMFAO!!!!! I do however miss THE MOZ!

In all seriousness, I was the most upset about Chandler - I really liked him here. He has yet to prove me right.

In all seriousness both gallo and chandler are very good players who are not even close to their prime yet.. along with the first and second round picks, giving away anthony randolph and throwing in the huge expiring of curry, we paid a KINGS ransom....

I would straight up trade this entire team for the nuggets roster right now... and when you look at it, almost half of those guys were knicks just a couple of years ago. It kind of gets to me, you know...

I didn't like giving amare 100 mil, but in all fairness, he pretty much came as advertised, played MVP ball the first few months and honestly, had a team of pretty young players playing above .500... how many times do you see players like amare(allstar talent, but not superstar) leading a team of guys like that and they usually are horrible.... I give amare credit for that, plus amare has been part of a winning culture in pheonix, one in which he was one of the teams best performers... but the 100 mil contract was just money, and what I mean is that amare came without the additional cost of young players and first round picks.

Half of them? The only ones who really played (last year) was Gallo and Moz. And Chandler was a FA so he would have not been retained. They did give up too much but only because they could have gotten away with paying less. Curry's expiring was certainly valuable. AR was/is worthless. I would have certainly rather have waited for FAgency if we could. I would have also liked Deron instead but I am not if that would have been the correct decision based on what I have seen from Deron in NJ but I am not sold yet either way.

Amare played below expectations so far. Far below. He had a great half personally though the team was only 28-26 to that point and sliding fast. Outside of that he has been extremely underwhelming.

It was also nice to be part of a winning culture that included the one and only Steve Nash. Marion, JJ, JRich and the rest of them were pretty freakin good too. Put him on a team with no PG and OUCH!! That does not mean he was not talented but he needed a PG to elevate his game. How would he have done if PHX replaced Nash with an old AI or another mediocre player?

Just because we overpaid for Melo does not make me hate him. He is still a solid player who with the right team can be a dominant contributor. As was the case for Paul Pierce.

Melo is not an orchestrator like Lebron or MJ and will never be. He is a dominant scorer that needs an orchestrator. Every team needs that type of leader. That is why I wish we could have gotten Chris Paul or at that point - DWil. We all saw how great Melo was in the olympics when surrounded by talented.

Now, Melo has to improve his shot selection, be less selfish and play consistent defense. I am not blind to his deficiencies. He should be held accountable for that. But I won't blindly hate him for it and believe he can improve on that.

This season will be very enlightening.

i GUESS I view things differently, I think amare has been as advertised until we make the trade to bring carmelo here and his game has not been the same..

As far as the denver team go, what I mean is that they have half of our players.. they now have AR, gallo, chandler, moz, heck even corey brewer is there I think.. LOL

Just because we overpaid for Melo does not make me hate him

true, that makes me dislike dolan.. I dislike carmelo for other reasons...

He is a dominant scorer that needs an orchestrator. Every team needs that type of leader. That is why I wish we could have gotten Chris Paul or at that point - DWil. We all saw how great Melo was in the olympics when surrounded by talented.

I think melo is a very good scorer and a GREat streak scorer.. not dominant.. sorry, there is really nothing that supports that.... I do agree that I wish we had gotten paul or d-wil, but that would have been instead of melo. Look everyone looks great on the olympic team, especially when going against lesser talent most of the time, but you can't fill your NBA team with guys like lebron, wade and kobe, and if you could, why would you need carmelo?

basically what you are saying about carmelo is what I can say about a lot of good all star players... that is fine, but those are not the guys you build around and disrupt your franchise for.. that is my problem.. that's all...

But I won't blindly hate him for it and believe he can improve on that.

that is fine, but odd that after 10 years you expect him to make those changes, but lin was pretty much finished after the miami game....

This season will be very enlightening.

for some it will be, for me, it will be different because I will be following a couple of other teams a bit closer, and I will be more of a spectator with these knicks, although I will root for them to win no doubt.... If you want to use enlightening, I can go with that for now...

Amare's game (and the team) was in decline before Melo got here. And, hey were 12-16 pre trade and 14-14 post trade.

As far as Denvers Knick players, Brewer was not part of the trade (not that you are suggesting this) but I was extremely pissed about that fiasco. He played very meaningful minutes on both Dallas and Denver. AR is AR, Chandler was not going to be resigned and Gallo and Moz were contributors. We don't necessarily disagree about the trade and overpaying though.

Numbers wise, Melo was/is as (nearly (for arguments sake)) dominant of a scorer as Kobe is/was. He is a lesser player but as far as scorer, the numbers do not lie.

Melo looked better than great/everyone on the olympic team. Tyson did not look good on the olympic team.

Melo is in the league of PP. Do you build your team around him? Not sure. But, it all depends on the alternative.\

Melo can change just like PP did when he was coached correctly and was surrounded by supreme talent. He also averaged 3.6 assist last year better than his career average of 3.0. I would like to see it go over 4.0.

I never said that Lin was finished after the Miami game. I did say that they exposed a weakness. He was certainly a contributor in later games.

You have the right as a fan to follow who you want as I have always said, I at least appreciate your honesty and candor.

don't try to oversell pierce having "supreme talent" around him.. rofl, that is such a sorry attempt.. he had good talent around him, good mature talent that fit, but not supreme talent.. come on man.. stop trying to validate carmelo so much.... I am not even sure he is as good as pierce is/ was, plus they are two different players... pierce style allowed him to mesh with various talents....

carmelo did well playing with the elite of the league, unless we are adding kobe, lebron and durant I am not sure I can apply any thing melo did in the olympics to the knicks..

Anyone validating Amare all the time should not preach about validating.

Rondo, Garnett and Allen were excellent players around PP. When did Melo have that? How did KG and PP do without each other/team? Nuff said.

Melo is better than PP IMHO but they are similar. PP's style allowed him to Mesh with THOSE guys. And a good coach.

No great team do great without a great orchestrator (few exception). Melo will certainly lack that as he did every year other than the time with Billups.

mrKnickShot wrote:
No great team do great without a great orchestrator (few exception). Melo will certainly lack that as he did every year other than the time with Billups.

This last statement gets back to the point of the thread. I do like that we have Jason Kidd and Felton here, and even the import in that guy who's name that I can't spell - priogoni. But, Kid WAS a great orchestrator. He still has some left in him for sure, but going forward he will probably retire shortly, or forced to retire in the next 2 or 3 years. Felton I always liked, but thought he was playing above his head and he did come down to earth for the few weeks before he was shipped out of here. Who knows, maybe he starts playing well again, but I don't enjoy watching him play defense. I don't like our future outside of the next 1 or 2 years regarding pg and I am not in love with it over the next 2 years anyway.

Anyway, a young and apparently up and coming great orchestrator, yeah, I'll call him that, was let to walk. To me, he was more like a missing piece to our championship hopes. I don't have a big problem retooling the roster after 3 years, but would have loved to re-tool around Lin right as his contract expired.

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:Lots of superlatives and adjectives to describe a player with 35 NBA games under his belt...Devin Harris had a better stretch where he played fantastic over a longer period of time...Harris was much more polished a player than Lin was at that stage in his career...Harris looked like a player to build around for the next decade...Does he look now to be worth a commitment of 70 mil??..I'm just amazed at folks who "seemed" to have watch hoops for so long are all ready to jump in and commit to a virtual unknown...I guess when it's not your money, what's the risk, right??...Maybe like Dolan it's "emotional"...

It's 64 games and there's a big difference between 70 and 25 mil.

I don't think you want to include his Rookie season, it's laughable, and doesn't really back your statement. In fact I'll refrain from posting his Rookie season with Golden State's stats, it's that bad...So 35 games it is!

earthmansurfer wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:
No great team do great without a great orchestrator (few exception). Melo will certainly lack that as he did every year other than the time with Billups.

This last statement gets back to the point of the thread. I do like that we have Jason Kidd and Felton here, and even the import in that guy who's name that I can't spell - priogoni. But, Kid WAS a great orchestrator. He still has some left in him for sure, but going forward he will probably retire shortly, or forced to retire in the next 2 or 3 years. Felton I always liked, but thought he was playing above his head and he did come down to earth for the few weeks before he was shipped out of here. Who knows, maybe he starts playing well again, but I don't enjoy watching him play defense. I don't like our future outside of the next 1 or 2 years regarding pg and I am not in love with it over the next 2 years anyway.

Anyway, a young and apparently up and coming great orchestrator, yeah, I'll call him that, was let to walk. To me, he was more like a missing piece to our championship hopes. I don't have a big problem retooling the roster after 3 years, but would have loved to re-tool around Lin right as his contract expired.

bingo, and what that would have done is give us 2 years to evaluate lin. I had hopes of a Lin, shumpert back court. Building a strong backcourt, a young one would have been a nice foundation to continue building from, then you see what kind of value guys like amare and melo have and you possibly move those guys for pieces to rebuild with.... just saying..

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:Lots of superlatives and adjectives to describe a player with 35 NBA games under his belt...Devin Harris had a better stretch where he played fantastic over a longer period of time...Harris was much more polished a player than Lin was at that stage in his career...Harris looked like a player to build around for the next decade...Does he look now to be worth a commitment of 70 mil??..I'm just amazed at folks who "seemed" to have watch hoops for so long are all ready to jump in and commit to a virtual unknown...I guess when it's not your money, what's the risk, right??...Maybe like Dolan it's "emotional"...

It's 64 games and there's a big difference between 70 and 25 mil.

I don't think you want to include his Rookie season, it's laughable, and doesn't really back your statement. In fact I'll refrain from posting his Rookie season with Golden State's stats, it's that bad...So 35 games it is!

His stats that year were good for a rookie. You're just not adjusting for minutes played. When evaluating a player, you should use the full sample of games unless you have proof that there is something wrong with the data from many of the games.

Yea maybe we should evaluate data per second played. I guess that's why 3 teams passed on him already, and a 4th(Knicks) almost did too until his miniscule 35 game breakout.