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NBA Playoff games threads.
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Juice
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5/24/2011  11:49 AM
BigSm00th wrote:
Juice wrote:You clearly did not watch the game if you're asking me what bone headed plays did Durant make down the stretch. That in of itself should have been kept inside of you. I gave the clear edge to Durant over Boozer but everything else evens out. Harden has had some good games as has Deng but let's stop churching up Harden like he's the second coming of some offensive juggernaut he's not. You're acting as if Brook has numerous play makers on his team to give the ball up too compared to Rose and I have shown you he doesn't. The only difference is Durant. He gave the ball up to Durant on several possessions down the stretch.


Durant shot an off balance baseline jumper clank.....

Durant shot a 30ftr with Marion draped all over him with 3.5sec left on the clock blocked shot

Durant shot 22ftr little ball movement near top of key clank

Durant tried to drive on Marion and spun into Kidd(double team) turned the ball over


For crying out loud he finished the game with 9TOs. Brook wasn't any better overall but Durant played worst down the stretch it's not even debatable.

Here let me help you out since you didn't see the game...

From within 5min left to play in the 4rth as the wheels came off let's look at what Durant did

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=310523025&period=4

4rth

Missed 22ftr

Missed 25ftr

Lose ball steal Marion on Durant

Blocked shot Marion on Durant 30ftr

The only Thunder player to score in this span was Brook(although he missed his share of shots too)

OT

Missed 24ftr

Loose ball steal Kidd on Durant

Missed 24ftr

Missed 25ftr(last shot was full of sorrow and pity)

That's pure garbage from someone who's supposed to be The Superstar of the team. He went 0-6 and turned the ball over 3 times when they needed him most. All 6FGA's 22ft and beyond for a player who should be wise enough to say to himself may I should be trying to get to the rim with some misdirection or pick from a big at home money from the line. But hey go ahead and do what you do.

"When Harden fouled out," Dallas center Brendan Haywood said, "we focused all our attention on KD. That was basically it."

i'm not going to get into a 5th grade "I WATCHED THE GAME! NO I WATCHED THE GAME" argument, that's silly. i'm not even sure what you're debating at this point.

does westbrook have the scoring champ on his team? yes.

end of argument.

So I show you proof that Durant played horrific down the stretch making bone headed plays and you want to go back to talking about WB being a knucklehead. I've already copped to him not playing his role correctly, I also copped and proved he gave the ball up to THE SCORING CHAMP and THE SCORING CHAMP failed miserably.

You're having a difficult time accepting this

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BigSm00th
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5/24/2011  1:11 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/24/2011  1:16 PM
right, durant and the rest of the thunder choked. i accept this.

the debate we've been having has been about rose and westbrook and the double standard that you perceive in assessing the play of the two. my stance is rose is the best offensive player on his team and thus shoulders the burden of offensive production. westbrook, on the other hand, is arguably the 3rd best offensive player on the thunder behind KD and harden. (my response to the anticipated "WB IS BETTER THAN HARDEN are you crazy?!?" is exhibit 1: thunder win a game WB sits on bench for entire 4th q. exhibit 2: harden fouls out and the mavs close out 22-6).

regardless of harden, durant is the best offensive player on the thunder. therefore, westbrook is critiqued when he comes down and goes in iso mode at the end of games because there are better scorers toiling on the wings. with rose, that is not the case.

whether rose AND westbrook should both be playing more like steve nash and driving, kicking out, and setting people up is another debate entirely. do i think rose will one day develop into a more "true" PG? yes. the guy takes 1000 jumpers a day and has shown a drive to get better. do i think westbrook will? maybe, he seems to be stubborn but also confident that he knows who he is. both are just 22, so i think both are capable, rose simply moreso. either way, neither plays like this now, each is more comfortable taking his man and trying to score. WB is critiqued for this more than rose because WB is not the best offensive player on his team, rose is. thats my argument.

the BLAME for some of westbrook's perceived mistakes is partly on him and partly on scotty brooks. brooks finally took WB out in game 2 and said "pass the damn ball" or "run the damn play" something along those lines, and the thunder cruised to victory with WB sitting on the bench. the idea of thibodeau taking rose out in a similar scenario and the bulls cruising to a W over the mavs or heat or any good team is crazy. based on that and the entire situation generally, i think that the thunder would be better served getting a TRUE PG like you have been advocating for rose to play like, because durant is better than westbrook and if you can only keep one of them, i'm taking the 2-time scoring champ who is 6'9 and not the shoot first combo guard.

can westbrook develop into a true PG? yeah. but you can also just play maynor as a starter, which should allow harden to flourish, and further solidify your front line (b/c perkins is a bit overrated, as this series has shown) and bench (which is lacking).

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BigSm00th
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5/24/2011  4:23 PM
hollinger may have settled our debate ... we are both right:

OKLAHOMA CITY -- The narratives couldn't be more opposite.

Yet, once again, the career paths of Russell Westbrook and Derrick Rose couldn't be more similar.

Big picture, these are two of the most unique players in history -- big, athletic, score-first point guards with shaky jump shots but spectacular finishing skills -- and I have a feeling we're going to be watching them in May and June for much of the next decade. Chicago and Oklahoma City were first and second in the Future Power Rankings that colleague Chad Ford and I compiled in March, and it seems inevitable that at some point these two forces of nature will collide in the Finals.

Statistically, they couldn't be more alike, either. They were second and third in the league in usage rate (after Kobe Bryant) and finished within one-hundredth of a point of each other in PER. Rose was first team All-NBA, Westbrook was second. Each is 6-foot-3, was born in late 1988 and was drafted in 2008.

It's somewhat jarring, then, that the narratives about their respective games are so opposed -- suffice it to say that commentators are not pondering trade scenarios for Rose. In fact, Rose's high-usage, middling-efficiency game is viewed as heroic on a Bulls team that surprisingly posted the best record in the league, earning him the MVP award as a result. But on a team with Kevin Durant, Westbrook's similar approach is seen as at best imperfect and at worst downright counterproductive.

Their situations are more similar than you think, however. Westbrook has better weapons alongside him, without question, but those weapons have a curious inability to get themselves open, which often leaves Westbrook in the exact same situation as Rose: holding the bag as the shot clock ticks down. Westbrook is also the more extreme of the two in playing this style -- he takes a higher proportion of his shots at the basket, draws more fouls, shoots worse from outside and makes more questionable decisions.

Yet Rose isn't known as the Human Assist either -- his assist ratio this season, believe it or not, was worse than Westbrook's. This is one of many reasons why I wonder, and will continue to wonder, if we'd see each in the exact opposite light if they switched teams.

Putting aside that conjecture, let's snap back to the present, where we see another great parallel between Rose and Westbrook: Both are shooting blanks in the conference finals, and as a result the Bulls and Thunder have their backs against the wall. Rose is shooting 25-of-64 (39.1 percent) in three games against Miami, while Westbrook is 25-of-72 (34.7 percent) in four games against Dallas.

Once again, each is creating a multitude of shots: They're first and second in playoff usage rate.

Converting shots? Not so much. Rose's postseason true shooting percentage is 51.7 despite his facing some pretty light opposition in the first two rounds, while Westbrook has labored to a 50.1 true shooting percentage.

Additionally, Westbrook has provided more fodder for criticism with a spiking turnover rate -- in the playoffs, he is averaging 5.3 miscues per game and has more turnovers than assists. While it's easy to pile up turnovers with seven games against Memphis' handsy defense, this is still unacceptable.

But to me, the shooting story is the one that really gets interesting. For Westbrook, it's amazing how badly his jump shot has gone off the rails in the postseason. He isn't a good shooter in normal circumstances, but he isn't this awful. In the regular season he was about a 1-in-3 proposition from beyond 15 feet, making 36.0 percent of his shots from 16-23 feet and 33 percent of his 3s.

But in his past 12 playoff games, Westbrook has made only 15 of 56 jump shots (26.8 percent) in the 16-23 foot range, and just 8 of 32 3-pointers. These have nearly all been wide-open shots, too, as opponents continually go under screens and dare him to shoot from outside. Yet since the first two games against Denver, he has been unable to take advantage. As a result, he is shooting a ghastly 34.7 percent for the playoffs. Only his tremendous ability to draw fouls -- he is averaging 11 free throw attempts a game in the postseason -- salvages his stat line.

As for Rose, his floater game has deserted him. As our Tom Haberstroh noted on Twitter, Rose made 57.5 percent of his shots from 3-9 feet in 2009-10, but only 39.7 percent this season and just 32 percent in the playoffs.

And that improved long-range jumper he flashed in the regular season? Not sure where that went. Rose is shooting 26.2 percent on 3s in the playoffs on six attempts a game; even if you subtracted out some 70-foot end-of-the-quarter heaves, it's still a big step back from the regular season.

Rose has made his midrange J against Miami (9-of-19), but as with Westbrook this is the shot opponents want him to take; he made only 38.0 percent from 16-23 feet in the regular season. (Westbrook made 36.0 percent.)

For both, it's the shots at the rim that have been harder to come by and harder to convert. The Miami series has been a steady series of Rose's drives to the rim being snuffed by extra Miami defenders, a theme that will sound familiar to anyone watching the Thunder the past few weeks. Each player shot 60 percent at the rim in the regular season while drawing piles of fouls, but opponents are taking this away and inducing jump shots.

In addition to the cold shooting, both Rose and Westbrook are facing another opponent for the first time: scrutiny. Rose evaded it all year with the Bulls' surprise ascent, but I saw a couple of commentators compare him to Westbrook (in unflattering terms, of course) after some wild shot attempts in Game 3.

Meanwhile, many fans and observers are getting their first extended look at Westbrook and wondering why so many "plays" consist of 15 seconds of dribbling and a missed jump shot. Having taken in heavy doses of OKC the past few weeks, I can tell you that Durant's and James Harden's faltering efforts to move off the ball explain a decent chunk of this, but it's also fair to describe Westbrook's decision-making as badly needing improvement.

So get your shots in now, everyone -- it's only going to get harder from here. Both players are 22, both are ferocious competitors and both are still learning on the fly. Right now Rose is the golden boy and Westbrook is the metaphorical redheaded stepchild, but in the big picture they're birds of a feather. In time, once they figure out what teams are doing to them and come back with better tactics and better jump shots, they're going to be impossible to contain.

Even for each other when they meet head-to-head in the Finals. Which, despite their hiccups in these conference finals and their diametrically opposite narratives, remains a very strong possibility in the near future.

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CrushAlot
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5/24/2011  6:38 PM
I have loved the playoffs this year but I don't know how much I will watch if it is the Mavs and Heat in the finals.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Juice
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5/24/2011  9:05 PM
What is Rose doing out there? Absolutely no directing of anything productive. Give the ball up to Noah and let him get everyone in their spots and drop the ball off to his teammates.
Juice
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5/24/2011  9:26 PM
Watson came in gave them a decent boost...made a bad turnover...Rose comes in Heat go on a run after horrible orchestrated possessions. The Heat aren't doing any thing spectacular but I do feel the Bulls need to go back to the drawing board with their whole scheme
Juice
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5/24/2011  9:37 PM
YIKES Rose now that was nasty!!!!!
AnubisADL
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5/24/2011  9:44 PM
Bulls expending alot of energy and they are STILL down.
NY Knicks - Retirement home for players and GMs
Juice
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5/24/2011  10:03 PM
What a way to lead a break like a PG Noah
Juice
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5/24/2011  10:08 PM
AnubisADL wrote:Bulls expending alot of energy and they are STILL down.

When did you make this post? Was it like a 1 or 2 possession game?.....lol

Juice
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5/24/2011  10:38 PM
battle of floor leaders Lebron vs Rose...Lebron is winning at the moment
BigSm00th
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5/24/2011  10:53 PM
finally a hard foul from the bulls.

love the CHI bench man.

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BigSm00th
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5/24/2011  10:53 PM
nice feed from rose to booze there. come on bulls!
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BigSm00th
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5/24/2011  10:56 PM
noah and bosh both have 5 fouls...
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CrushAlot
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5/24/2011  10:56 PM
This game is going to be decided by the officials.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Nalod
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5/24/2011  11:05 PM
Bulls are offensively challanged.

One comes at the price of the other. They have been tentative.

Rooting for Bulls.............

Nalod
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5/24/2011  11:07 PM
Iso? Damn!
Juice
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5/24/2011  11:07 PM
8-23fg shaking my head and shooting step backs over a player 5-6inches taller than him.
BigSm00th
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5/24/2011  11:07 PM
rose has gotta get a better look than a stepback J with james in his grill.
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BigSm00th
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5/24/2011  11:10 PM
suck it king james.

ball is in the bulls court. their game to lose.

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NBA Playoff games threads.

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