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Pharzeone
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12/7/2008  4:19 PM
1. Tuck is a tad overrated. Not so easy to shine without Strahan commanding those double teams.
2. Those who foolish thought that the Giants wouldn't feel the effects of losing a Plaxico Burress just got a huge wake up call. Giant receivers got a big wake up call too, much easier for defensive coordinators to gameplan when they are sure they don't have to worry about doubling Burress. Hixon and Boss found out what happens when a capable team gameplans for them.
3. I thought Eli made some great throws but his teammates let him down. Also, the offensive line look slow compared to an aggressive athlethic pass rush. Eli did well to get those balls off.
4. No Pass Rush anymore from the Giants. Osi and Strahan are missed.
5. I heard people this week say that Pierce was more important to the team than Burress. Don't be foolish. Pierce is an above average MLB, Burress is among the best receivers in the game.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
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TMS
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12/7/2008  4:22 PM
i think Pierce is 1 of the best MLB's in the game, i wouldn't just call him above average... but i definitely agree Plax is gonna be missed... the double teams like u mentioned are no longer there for us & allows teams to stack up against the run... Eli made the throws today but his receivers let him down... even Eli went on record himself saying Plax made him a better QB & he will miss him on this team.
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GKFv2
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12/7/2008  4:38 PM
Trade a 1st rounder for Boldin in the summer.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
VDesai
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12/7/2008  4:50 PM
1) Tuck is not overrated....he has been the best DE in the NFL against all the double teams Strahan has been facing. I don't know how you can call this guy overrated when he is playing the best DE vs. the run and pass in football.

2) Giants are obviously gonna be hurt by Plaxico's absence but they have the players to overcome that. Hixon and Smith can't drop crucial passes in their breadbasket as they did today. Especially Hixon on that sure touch down. I think the distraction that the media attention from Burress' incident today caused perhaps as much grief as his absence. The Giants didn't match the Eagles energy and the lack of concentration/focus could easily be a result of a week of distracted practice.

3) Agree on Eli He threw one dangerous pass and had a couple die down in the wind, but mostly he was let down by his teammates today.

4) Lack of pass rush today hurt and they were getting there a bit early in the game and didn't finish. The poor tackling was a huge issue.

5) Hard to say who's presence is more important. Pierce makes all the calls on D and generally does a phenomenal job of it. Clearly he is a flawed player who can't really cover recievers, but he plays hard every week and is a crucial player on this team. Plax is a human mismatch, but for most of this year in particular, he has not been a major factor, even when he was out there healthy and the Giants have clearly shown the capability of being outstanding on offense without him. However, I think everyone recognizes that having him makes things a helluva lot easier, especially on days like these when the other recievers are not finding success.


[Edited by - VDesai on 12-07-2008 4:51 PM]
VDesai
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12/7/2008  4:53 PM
Posted by GKFv2:

Trade a 1st rounder for Boldin in the summer.

Boldin is a guy who's certainly worth it- but they have to re-sign Jacobs and Webster and I don't think they can sacrifice either of those players for another WR when they still have a reasonably effective corps. They can draft another WR and that would be a far more cost effective solution.
TMS
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12/7/2008  4:56 PM
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by GKFv2:

Trade a 1st rounder for Boldin in the summer.

Boldin is a guy who's certainly worth it- but they have to re-sign Jacobs and Webster and I don't think they can sacrifice either of those players for another WR when they still have a reasonably effective corps. They can draft another WR and that would be a far more cost effective solution.

any WR's u got ur eyes on this year in the draft bro?
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VDesai
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12/7/2008  5:00 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by GKFv2:

Trade a 1st rounder for Boldin in the summer.

Boldin is a guy who's certainly worth it- but they have to re-sign Jacobs and Webster and I don't think they can sacrifice either of those players for another WR when they still have a reasonably effective corps. They can draft another WR and that would be a far more cost effective solution.

any WR's u got ur eyes on this year in the draft bro?

Keep you're eye out on my guy from Rutgers, junior WR Kenny Britt. He has elite height and speed and has been monstrously productive over the last 2 years. Right now it depends on how many underclassman come out, b/c the Sr. class is below average. The Giants have the luxury of being able to develop a guy. Right now they still will have Hixon, Smith, Moss and Manningham under contract and now can bring back Toomer for a cheaper price. Hixon dissapointed by dropping the deep ball now, but I think we all agree that he looks ready to emerge.
Pharzeone
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12/7/2008  5:03 PM
Posted by VDesai:

1) Tuck is not overrated....he has been the best DE in the NFL against all the double teams Strahan has been facing. I don't know how you can call this guy overrated when he is playing the best DE vs. the run and pass in football.

Tuck sack numbers are too low for the hype he generates. I guess in the comparisons to Strahan like a guy like Francesa want to make. Tuck now faces Strahan double teams but cannot produce the same amount of sacks or tackles that Strahan was able to produce. So you are right maybe I should rephrase he is overhype in the comparisons to Strahan.

[Edited by - VDesai on 12-07-2008 4:51 PM]

I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
VDesai
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12/7/2008  5:07 PM
Dude Justin Tuck has like 12.5 sacks in 13 games. How are those numbers too low? With the exception of the one year that is right on par with the totals that Strahan generated in his best seasons. When you consider all the tackles for losses and pressures Tuck generates for others, as well his ability to stop the run, I think on the whole, Tuck is having a season equivalent to the kind of seasons Strahan had in his peak years.
TMS
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12/7/2008  5:09 PM
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by GKFv2:

Trade a 1st rounder for Boldin in the summer.

Boldin is a guy who's certainly worth it- but they have to re-sign Jacobs and Webster and I don't think they can sacrifice either of those players for another WR when they still have a reasonably effective corps. They can draft another WR and that would be a far more cost effective solution.

any WR's u got ur eyes on this year in the draft bro?

Keep you're eye out on my guy from Rutgers, junior WR Kenny Britt. He has elite height and speed and has been monstrously productive over the last 2 years. Right now it depends on how many underclassman come out, b/c the Sr. class is below average. The Giants have the luxury of being able to develop a guy. Right now they still will have Hixon, Smith, Moss and Manningham under contract and now can bring back Toomer for a cheaper price. Hixon dissapointed by dropping the deep ball now, but I think we all agree that he looks ready to emerge.

i'll definitely be reading up on that kid, thanks for the tip... & i agree on Hixon... he's looked great for the most part, just that 1 horrible drop... he was wide open to catch that ball & if he does we're not even having this discussion about Plax right now cuz the Giants likely win this game or at least have a shot at winning it in the 4th quarter... i still say we're gonna miss Plax in the red zone for stuff i've touched on before but i have no problem w/Hixon... i like that kid, he makes plays... just didn't make it today when it counted.
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TMS
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12/7/2008  5:10 PM
no way is Tuck overrated... he's a monster that demands double teams just like Strahan used to do... btw, he's the guy who blocked the FG today that led to Dockery's TD.
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TMS
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12/7/2008  5:16 PM
damn bro, Kenny Britt looks like he's got some dawg in him... love the way he demolished this guy on this block!

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TMS
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12/7/2008  5:18 PM
runs nice routes, nice hands, big body & speed... looks like a perfect replacement for Plax... nice find dude.



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VDesai
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12/7/2008  5:21 PM
Ha...its no find for me....I went to Rutgers, used to call Rutgers game on student radio and watch all their games. He's been playing under my nose for years. Britt needs to add some muscle to his legs and improve his route running, but he has all the physical tools.

I wouldn't sleep on his teammate Tiquan Underwood either. He's about 6-1, but strong, good hands a nice player. Can be had later.
TMS
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12/7/2008  5:27 PM
LOL, that's awesome dude... what a dream job to have.

i think we need to draft a big tall receiver like this that can be a deep threat but is tough enough to go in the middle & take a big hit... we have enough average height possession receiver types already... Toomer's good for another year & Smith is an awesome slot receiver, plus we got that kid Manningham who looked nice in college & Hixon is another deep threat... Moss is never gonna be anything special if u ask me, he can't break a tackle to save his life, doesn't run great routes & his supposed big play speed has yet to surface in any action i've witnessed.

[Edited by - TMS on 12-07-2008 2:28 PM]
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VDesai
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12/7/2008  5:31 PM
Moss is ok, but he's nothing more than a sub package reciever. He's gotten a bit better this year.

If you're interested in big, tall targets I'll give you 2 more names that might be avaialable a bit later- Aaron Kelly of Clemson and Jason Williams of Oregon. Both are 6'5 or so, very physical and productive.
Pharzeone
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12/7/2008  5:33 PM
Posted by VDesai:

Dude Justin Tuck has like 12.5 sacks in 13 games. How are those numbers too low? With the exception of the one year that is right on par with the totals that Strahan generated in his best seasons. When you consider all the tackles for losses and pressures Tuck generates for others, as well his ability to stop the run, I think on the whole, Tuck is having a season equivalent to the kind of seasons Strahan had in his peak years.

Yeah but his sack numbers are deceiving. He has a number of games with 2 sacks like in the Rams and 49ers game. I think he has 4 to cover that span. He also has 4 sacks in both games against the Redskins who do not normally look to double him. So he 8 sacks against the Rams, 49ers and Redskins. Take a look at what he did against the other teams. I like his performance against the Cowboys but I also believe the Cowboys have the most overrated offensive lines in the NFL.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
TMS
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12/7/2008  5:34 PM
sorry to go off topic, but damn does anyone wanna score in this game? PIT & DAL is competing to see who can make the most turnovers in a game.
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TMS
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12/7/2008  5:35 PM
Posted by VDesai:

Moss is ok, but he's nothing more than a sub package reciever. He's gotten a bit better this year.

If you're interested in big, tall targets I'll give you 2 more names that might be avaialable a bit later- Aaron Kelly of Clemson and Jason Williams of Oregon. Both are 6'5 or so, very physical and productive.

i'll look into them too... that's enough for today my mind's going into overload w/the possibilities.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
VDesai
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12/7/2008  5:36 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by VDesai:

Dude Justin Tuck has like 12.5 sacks in 13 games. How are those numbers too low? With the exception of the one year that is right on par with the totals that Strahan generated in his best seasons. When you consider all the tackles for losses and pressures Tuck generates for others, as well his ability to stop the run, I think on the whole, Tuck is having a season equivalent to the kind of seasons Strahan had in his peak years.

Yeah but his sack numbers are deceiving. He has a number of games with 2 sacks like in the Rams and 49ers game. I think he has 4 to cover that span. He also has 4 sacks in both games against the Redskins who do not normally look to double him. So he 8 sacks against the Rams, 49ers and Redskins. Take a look at what he did against the other teams. I like his performance against the Cowboys but I also believe the Cowboys have the most overrated offensive lines in the NFL.

Dude, that's how sacks happen in the NFL. You think Strahan got 1 sack in every game? He got 3 in a bunch of games and zero in others. Tuck is a presence in virtually every game. Stop splitting hairs for an untenable position.
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