Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by BlueSeats:


Killa, I'm not certain we disagree to the extent you think we do. I'm not saying that Imus isn't racist. I don't what's in his heart. I simply don't think one can make the enormous assumption that someone who attempts to be funny through racial slurring or stereotyping surely is, beyond doubt, racist.

Michael Richards and Mel Gibson were different cases because theirs were angry tirades that clearly came from the heart, whereas Imus was doing his daily schtick.

Before Richard Prior and company made it funny I think you had better odds with those assumptions, but nowadays some people do it just to be "in" comedically speaking. Did Imus do it poorly and unfunnily, adding to the hurt? And is his history suspect? Sure. Am I sorry he was fired? No.

So its ok if youre trying to be funny, but not otherwise? Wasn't Michael Richards trying to be funny? He was performing standup at a comedy club?!?! White people in the audience actually laughed at those remarks when he said them?! Whats the difference, because he appeared to be losing his cool? So if Mel Gibson said what he said in a joke format its cool? Its not cool to me. Racist humor reinforces racist attitudes and behavior, thats the danger in it, and why it shold always be shunned.

I think there is a difference between making fun of stereotypes or racist behavior and simply calling someone a name. Most comedians make fun of stereotypes. It can be offensive to some, but if you understand the point, it's actually kind of funny. Imus and Richards simply called people names.

One of the big dangers in my mind is this. We constantly try to explain to the world that we aren't a stereotype. That blacks can be anything and anybody just like every other group of people on the planet. That we are poor, rich, middle class, smart, dumb, brilliant, average. That we speak ebonics, everyday english and the kings english. We get infuriated if anyone tries to put us into a box.

But as soon as a rich, king's english, conservative black person walks in the room we call them a sell-out for not being like the rest of us. This bothers me.

Killa, that's human nature. We see examples of prominent people in the middle east and africa as well. We all know that the majority of the people in those societies are as diverse in personality as ours. But I've been to both places. And I guarantee you that if you go there today(if you haven't been) that reality will be very different than what you perceive.

And remember this goes both ways. My neighborhodd was all black. I was lucky enough to go to a mixed school. But many of my friends did not. Some of us went to the same college. Our perceptions of white people were far different.

I often criticized my friends until it happened to me. I had never met an asian person growing up either. The first asian person I spoke to was at the age of 19 in college. And even then my first experience was handing out ping pong paddles and badminton rackets at the university fieldhouse to a guy that barely spoke english. Think what that did to my lifelong stereotypes. It wasn't until I played in a 3 on 3 tournament in Baltimore and had some ebonics speaking korean kid feed me his nutsack on an alley-oop dunk that I realized I was no different than the white guy and the black guy's that I had criticized. I wasn't a racist, I jsut hadn't had enough experience.

We are all the same in this regard. As an adult I don't have any bitterness towards my Maine friend because I understand where he's coming from. If he didn't try to change I would criticize him. But the fact that he isn't afraid to hang out with my friends(despite his ignorance) just show's that sometimes maybe we judge to harshly.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 17-04-2007 12:57 PM]

Posted by Bippity10:

Killa, that's human nature. We see examples of prominent people in the middle east and africa as well. We all know that the majority of the people in those societies are as diverse in personality as ours. But I've been to both places. And I guarantee you that if you go there today(if you haven't been) that reality will be very different than what you perceive.

And remember this goes both ways. My neighborhodd was all black. I was lucky enough to go to a mixed school. But many of my friends did not. Some of us went to the same college. Our perceptions of white people were far different.

I often criticized my friends until it happened to me. I had never met an asian person growing up either. The first asian person I spoke to was at the age of 19 in college. And even then my first experience was handing out ping pong paddles and badminton rackets at the university fieldhouse to a guy that barely spoke english. Think what that did to my lifelong stereotypes. It wasn't until I played in a 3 on 3 tournament in Baltimore and had some ebonics speaking korean kid feed me his nutsack on an alley-oop dunk that I realized I was no different than the white guy and the black guy's that I had criticized. I wasn't a racist, I jsut hadn't had enough experience.

We are all the same in this regard. As an adult I don't have any bitterness towards my Maine friend because I understand where he's coming from. If he didn't try to change I would criticize him. But the fact that he isn't afraid to hang out with my friends(despite his ignorance) just show's that sometimes maybe we judge to harshly.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 17-04-2007 12:57 PM]

Great story!! I hope you gave him his nutsack back.

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by Allanfan20:

PS: Al Sharpton is an idiot. He's always playing "Black people are the victim" bla bla bla and accusing whites of being racists in these crimes, yet he himself is racist towards whites. I have no clue why he has the power he does. I listened to a guy in my American History class today, and he knew Sean Bell, and said Sharpton completely ruined his funeral.

I dont recall him saying black people are the victim? Care to prove that point? Seems to me you are reading things into his comments. I also didnt hear him accuse anyone of being racist. He spoke out against racist language, which he has done on NUMEROUS occasions involving rap music, it just doesnt get the media attention, because its not a black/white thing, and wont sell papers.

I never said he said it. I said he acts like it. If Sean Bell was shot by a few black cops, do you think Sharpton would be giving it nearly as much attention? I don't think so, but it's just my perception.

You're right, I don't know the guy, and I DO go by what the media says, but if you can explain why he's so powerful, then I'll respect that more, but I don't understand why it has to be HE who represents the black community. Perhaps this is just me on the outside looking in.

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by islesfan:

The first 2 lines from the lyrics of Stevie Wonders song "I Wish" that has become popularized again through the children's Academy Award winning movie "Happy Feet":

"Looking back on when i
Was a little nappy headed boy"

It's not just about gangsta rappers or comedians.

If it's bad for one group to say something then it should be just as repugnant for any group to say the same exact thing.

So anyone who post a picture of an Asian boy is a racist like RV?? Because pal, Blue was right you were running up and down this board screaming racism about an image posting. But now you can't seem to get it. Are you a hypocrite on this matter? No, yes or maybe so.

What's the connection to what you quoted me saying to what your response was?

Just wondering but did you have a problem with what rv did?

Posted by islesfan:

And what am I not getting? I'm saying that if it's wrong for one group of people to say then it's wrong for anyone to say.

What am I being hypocritical about?

just trying to understand, so forgive me if offbase, but are you saying that if it isnt ok for imus to say the things he says, then it is also not ok for black comedians, rappers, etc to say racially degrading things about white people? i think that is an interesting point and one that should be discussed. what about that person that says cracker this, whitebread that. are they just as wrong as imus?

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by BlueSeats:


Killa, I'm not certain we disagree to the extent you think we do. I'm not saying that Imus isn't racist. I don't what's in his heart. I simply don't think one can make the enormous assumption that someone who attempts to be funny through racial slurring or stereotyping surely is, beyond doubt, racist.

Michael Richards and Mel Gibson were different cases because theirs were angry tirades that clearly came from the heart, whereas Imus was doing his daily schtick.

Before Richard Prior and company made it funny I think you had better odds with those assumptions, but nowadays some people do it just to be "in" comedically speaking. Did Imus do it poorly and unfunnily, adding to the hurt? And is his history suspect? Sure. Am I sorry he was fired? No.

So its ok if youre trying to be funny, but not otherwise? Wasn't Michael Richards trying to be funny? He was performing standup at a comedy club?!?! White people in the audience actually laughed at those remarks when he said them?! Whats the difference, because he appeared to be losing his cool? So if Mel Gibson said what he said in a joke format its cool? Its not cool to me. Racist humor reinforces racist attitudes and behavior, thats the danger in it, and why it shold always be shunned.

Killa, first off you gotta decide if racial comedy is acceptable or not. Then you look to see if a person was being comedic or not.

I asked racial comedy is acceptable many times without an answer. Was "All In The Family" useful or destructive? It was intended to be racially constructive.

Anybody watch Bill Mahr's show on HBO? he makes a lot of gay jokes, but behind them he is a champion of gay rights.

If I bumped into you on the street tomorrow I'd hope if I said to you "whatup ya nappy headed ho" you'd know it was a joke in reference to this thread, and even if it stung a bit you'd know I was coming from a playful place.

So context is important, I think we all agree. The context of Imus' comments were his show that is based on vulgar humor. They weren't funny, they went too far, they were misdirected, they were hurtful, and he shouldn't have said them. I agree with all of that. And I'm glad that blacks have the power to exert their will and get him fired for them.

With all that said, his comments were different than Gibson's and Richards. Gibson's came in a drunken run in with cops, and Richards were not part of his rroutine, I'm not even sure he pretended to be funny. He lost control and left the stage. I heard the clip and I don't recall people finding it funny. There may have been some initial uneasy laughter, but I think it died down when people realized what they were witnessing. Gibson and Richards were spitting real venom while Imus was doing his routine.

It's okay if you find Imus' routine tiresome and want him off the air, but recognize it for the routine that it is. it's shock-jock radio and he's harsh on everyone, even his guests.

But here's the deal. We have to get our heads around whether these racist and violent themes in or culture are destructive or not. is Marilyn Manson and white culture "devil worship" music bad for society? Are shows like the Sopranos, with their negative depiction of italian americans? Are violent movies like "The Money Train," "Die Hard" and zillions of others? Are racial comedians like Chapelle? Are foul mouthed rappers?

If they are, it's something all races need to work on together. If they're not, then we have to take the bad with the good. Some of us don't want to give up our pleasures, and I for one like black comedy and the Sopranos. How much are we willing to give up to clean things up?

What doesn't make sense is to not be able to talk about it. Blacks can't take a position that this is their culture and it doesn't concern others, because it does. What if in 10 years rap is dead and is replaced by white devil worship music? If black are offended that their 8 year olds are hooked on the music and dressing up like vampires and singing about sacrificing lambs and I don't know what, will it be appropriate for whites to tell you it's none of your business?

We're in this culture together, it's okay to talk about it without getting positional and defensive.

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by BlueSeats:


Killa, I'm not certain we disagree to the extent you think we do. I'm not saying that Imus isn't racist. I don't what's in his heart. I simply don't think one can make the enormous assumption that someone who attempts to be funny through racial slurring or stereotyping surely is, beyond doubt, racist.

Michael Richards and Mel Gibson were different cases because theirs were angry tirades that clearly came from the heart, whereas Imus was doing his daily schtick.

Before Richard Prior and company made it funny I think you had better odds with those assumptions, but nowadays some people do it just to be "in" comedically speaking. Did Imus do it poorly and unfunnily, adding to the hurt? And is his history suspect? Sure. Am I sorry he was fired? No.

So its ok if youre trying to be funny, but not otherwise? Wasn't Michael Richards trying to be funny? He was performing standup at a comedy club?!?! White people in the audience actually laughed at those remarks when he said them?! Whats the difference, because he appeared to be losing his cool? So if Mel Gibson said what he said in a joke format its cool? Its not cool to me. Racist humor reinforces racist attitudes and behavior, thats the danger in it, and why it shold always be shunned.

Killa, first off you gotta decide if racial comedy is acceptable or not. Then you look to see if a person was being comedic or not.

I asked racial comedy is acceptable many times without an answer. Was "All In The Family" useful or destructive? It was intended to be racially constructive.

Anybody watch Bill Mahr's show on HBO? he makes a lot of gay jokes, but behind them he is a champion of gay rights.

If I bumped into you on the street tomorrow I'd hope if I said to you "whatup ya nappy headed ho" you'd know it was a joke in reference to this thread, and even if it stung a bit you'd know I was coming from a playful place.

So context is important, I think we all agree. The context of Imus' comments were his show that is based on vulgar humor. They weren't funny, they went too far, they were misdirected, they were hurtful, and he shouldn't have said them. I agree with all of that. And I'm glad that blacks have the power to exert their will and get him fired for them.

With all that said, his comments were different than Gibson's and Richards. Gibson's came in a drunken run in with cops, and Richards were not part of his rroutine, I'm not even sure he pretended to be funny. He lost control and left the stage. I heard the clip and I don't recall people finding it funny. There may have been some initial uneasy laughter, but I think it died down when people realized what they were witnessing. Gibson and Richards were spitting real venom while Imus was doing his routine.

It's okay if you find Imus' routine tiresome and want him off the air, but recognize it for the routine that it is. it's shock-jock radio and he's harsh on everyone, even his guests.

But here's the deal. We have to get our heads around whether these racist and violent themes in or culture are destructive or not. is Marilyn Manson and white culture "devil worship" music bad for society? Are shows like the Sopranos, with their negative depiction of italian americans? Are violent movies like "The Money Train," "Die Hard" and zillions of others? Are racial comedians like Chapelle? Are foul mouthed rappers?

If they are, it's something all races need to work on together. If they're not, then we have to take the bad with the good. Some of us don't want to give up our pleasures, and I for one like black comedy and the Sopranos. How much are we willing to give up to clean things up?

What doesn't make sense is to not be able to talk about it. Blacks can't take a position that this is their culture and it doesn't concern others, because it does. What if in 10 years rap is dead and is replaced by white devil worship music? If black are offended that their 8 year olds are hooked on the music and dressing up like vampires and singing about sacrificing lambs and I don't know what, will it be appropriate for whites to tell you it's none of your business?

We're in this culture together, it's okay to talk about it without getting positional and defensive.

Great post. I can't stand when people use the same tired, "you would never understand what I go through so but out, teenage mentality"

Now let me go back to something you said earlier. so what you are saying is that if you ran into me on the street you would call me a nappy headed ho. "If I bumped into you on the street tomorrow I'd hope if I said to you "whatup ya nappy headed ho". You are so racist man.