holfresh wrote:Trump and his kids are present at all transition meetings as well as they will continue to run their businesses..This isn't the appearance of conflict of interest but it is a conflict of interest..Republicans are only happy to look the other way..

Actually read that someone from Trump campaign said there was no room in the meeting for him, but his 3 kids were able to be there... Yup.

djsunyc wrote:

nixluva wrote:

djsunyc wrote:PBS should not be giving these people a forum.

I actually think it's a good idea because there are those that would say these groups aren't really an issue but it's better to expose them for what they really are rather than allow them to go along unchallenged and able to achieve some level of legitimacy. That's what they want and why they latched onto Trump. They want some kind of validation for their beliefs and to "whitewash" their image and be normalized. We can't allow that.

the results of the election have proven that what folks say/facts do not matter. it's all about emotional connection and an exercise on who misinforms the best. being on tv, folks will listen. most will be disgusted but some folks may have emotions awakened.

WaltLongmire wrote:

holfresh wrote:Trump and his kids are present at all transition meetings as well as they will continue to run their businesses..This isn't the appearance of conflict of interest but it is a conflict of interest..Republicans are only happy to look the other way..

Supposedly the Twitter boss was not there because he blocked Trump's idea for a Crooked Hillary emoji...

Actually read that someone from Trump campaign said there was no room in the meeting for him, but his 3 kids were able to be there... Yup.

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/12/fcc-chairman-to-step-down-handing-gop-majority/

Tom Wheeler, chairman of the U.S. Federal Communications Commission, said Thursday he plans to step down on Jan. 20, a move that is expected to hand Republicans a 2-1 majority on the panel when Donald Trump takes office as president.

Wheeler could have temporarily kept the commission at 2-2 until Trump named a new member who needs to be confirmed by the Senate. Last week, two Republican FCC commissioners said the Trump administration should quickly reverse many significant policies set by the telecommunications and cable regulatory body under Democratic President Barack Obama

Bonn1997 wrote:

djsunyc wrote:

nixluva wrote:

djsunyc wrote:PBS should not be giving these people a forum.

I actually think it's a good idea because there are those that would say these groups aren't really an issue but it's better to expose them for what they really are rather than allow them to go along unchallenged and able to achieve some level of legitimacy. That's what they want and why they latched onto Trump. They want some kind of validation for their beliefs and to "whitewash" their image and be normalized. We can't allow that.

the results of the election have proven that what folks say/facts do not matter. it's all about emotional connection and an exercise on who misinforms the best. being on tv, folks will listen. most will be disgusted but some folks may have emotions awakened.

Well put

Yes agreed

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

arkrud wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:- we have not a "race" problem but African American nation problem. We just overlooked that new nation of people get created with specific culture which has no place yet to safe-realize and even cannot yet identifie itself. Racism is also there but this is not the major issue.

I'm sorry but you're going to have to more clearly explain this statement. I can't understand what you're trying to say here. What do you mean by "African American nation problem"? What do you mean by "new nation of people created with specific culture which has no place"?

I'm really not sure what you are saying and want you to elaborate on these points.

Every nation need place to realize it suverenity. It may be independent country or cultural enclave inside multi-national country.
It can be territorial or just cultural identity.
I believe that Afro-Americans are a new nation in the process of self-realization.
There are clearly many people of African race who are not African Americans while leaving in USA. They are representing other nations - like Iruba, Nigerians, etc.
All of then can be a subject of racism. But for African Americans it is obviously more to it.
American nation is a mix of emigrants from all over the world who came here at their own will and many with no intentions to maintain their national identity but rather became American nationals politically and culturally. It is not true however for many people who are there not by their will or were there before colonization like Native Americans and Northers People. They want to maintain their national identity separate from US Americans. And they have all rights to do so.
Same true for African Americans. But I think they just start to realize this national identity.
I think the whole American society will need to realize and embrace it. But this process is complicated and just starting.
It is definitely bigger that this Trump-no-Trump distractions.

WOW! You have a lot of concepts in your post. To simplify things from my perspective I won't try to address all of your points. Let me just say this, African Americans have ALWAYS been part of the fabric of this country! Even when we weren't considered to be so.

AA's have fought in every war this country ever fought. After gaining freedom AA's could've taken violent revenge on a massive scale but in fact that was relatively rare! All AA's ever wanted was to be treated fairly and with respect and to pursue the American Dream!

There was NEVER any justification for violence and oppression inflicted upon AA's. The restraint under the circumstances is a badge of honor and a rebuke to this nation that they were treated so poorly for so long. For what reason were AA's denied their rights or mistreated??? There is no reason other than pure evil and greed.

To this very day this country has never fully lived up to the debt they owe AA's. There would be no America as we know it without AA's. Our story is inextricably intertwined with the history of this country. We are America just as much if not more than most since we gave all for this country and received so little of the spoils of success we helped create. If you don't know what I'm talking about then go look up the many resources on how much AA's contributed to the fortunes of this country.

This is all fair and true.
My question is how you identify yourself and AA people inside America - as a unique nation which need to be treated as such or you want to dissolve into American nation which has no concept or race, nationality, and cultural identity other that American? You cannot have it both ways - it is the choice to be made.
As far as someone owe something to somebody I do not believe in this.
I owe nothing to any nation and no nation owe anything to me.
I rely only on myself and owe only what I managed to achieve.
And I give same right to every other human being to do same.
If you look at the history of the world no nation that was enslaved, murdered, tortured, and displaced get their debt paid off by anybody.
There is no fairness in history. Until oppressed get on right side of the gun they get nothing back.

African Americans didn't choose to be set apart! That was imposed upon them and to a large degree still goes on. AA's wanted to live in a colorblind society but it was the White majority that did not want it. You really don't know or understand the dynamics of race in this country. There is much I could teach you about the TRUTH of this country but you have to want to know the truth.

Natives were mistreated but did receive some recompense and land of their own! Japanese Americans that were wrongfully held in concentration camps received recompense. This country became great largely off the backs of African Slaves and all they did was kick us in the teeth!

Just so we're clear AA's are a large part of the identity and culture of America you can't separate us out of history and have the same country. There's no facet of what made America what it is that doesn't have a connection to the African slaves. That includes the Revolution and the Constitution. Everything was based off of the system of slavery and how that allowed this country to become great.

OK
So all wealth America has is build by slaves...
The rest of the people were just a bunch of cowboys drinking in saloons...
Now what? They should go back to Europe from were they unlawfully came to grab the land, kill and enslave people, and burn the crosses...
And leave everything they grab to local and displaced people to restore the historical fairness.
Obviously it is absurd.
No one has power and right to separate people in any kind of groups.
And it is not needed as they separating themselves without anyone help.
What Native and Japaneses receive is a joke comparing to all dignity that was taking away from them. Not only dignity, everything.
And they will not get it back ever. Even if the whole world will want to give it back to them.
Its gone and not returnable. Last year snow.
The history of the human kind is the history of genocide, destruction, wars, oppression, and injustice.
This how we came around. All of us.
And as we will continue to berry our had in the past and finding enemies and animosities we will never get out of it.
Time to give everyone the clean slate and leave together as one.

Like I said you really have no clue about this subject. I'm my family historian and in my research I've had to also research the family of the people who enslaved my ancestors. I have extensive records on every descendent from the man who enslaved my people. All the land and profits made going back 258 years.

In the census records they actually did detailed financial statements so I have access to just how much money they made off my ancestors hard work. I have copies of the actual record of purchase of my ancestor back in 1758! I have a nearly complete record of births and deaths from that time to the present and I can tell you it is life changing to see it all organized into a coherent record.

I'm planning to visit the area where my ancestors slaved away on plantations and visit the graves. I hope to also find where they may have buried my original ancestors back before they marked the graves of slaves. I can tell you that it's not time to just "give everyone a clean slate and live together as one". This isn't ancient history! I've got relatives still living that lived much of this horrible history.

His challenge is not a lack of understanding, it's indifference, lack of respect for others and a single minded need to rationalize anything that benefits him, however remotely into an absolute positive. It's not an uncommon combination in general.

You guys are amazing in how microscopic and self-centric is your vision of the world.
Little mind in little space.
Good luck living in your little box and slowly carry you little home on your shoulders while the world moving forward at the speed of light.
As far as researching my family - 256 members of it were burned in the chambers on Nazy camps. What compensation should I get from Germans and other Nazy alliance nations? And what is will account for for 6 million people including 2 millions children. How much wealth this slaughtered people will be able to create for human race?
And nobody want to compensate... what a pity...

Microscopic and self centric? Big words and completely irrelevant and out of context like everything else you post. Nothing I said or Nixluva said had anything to do with Nazi Germany. We are talking US history and the role of racism. Try and keep up with the conversation.

Obviously the Jewish Holocaust was horrific. I don't know much about the aftermath and what Germany did to try and apologize for what happened but I do know that this country has not really ever dealt with the issue of Slavery and the wage theft, murder, oppression etc for hundreds of years!!!

In this election we heard a lot about the plight of the White Working Class. They want a return to the good old days. What about AA's? There NEVER were any Good Old Days for AA's. As they say we're still waiting for our 40 Acres and a Mule so to speak.

My Great, Great Grandfather and his children were slaves. A month after the Civil War ended the Freedman's Beureau ordered the former slaves to sign Labor Contracts with the former Slaveholders!
They did not want to. They wanted the land they were promised. Not free land but land they could lease and eventually buy!!!

The Slaveholders convinced the government not to do this. So my Great, Great Grandfather who like most slaves was illiterate signed the work contract with the very man who had enslaved him and all of my ancestors. This was in 1865. By 1870 my Great, Great Grandfather came to own 212 Acres, a home and a Sugar Cane Mill. He employed other people. Unfortunately they lost it all in the 1920's during the Great Depression.

Nix - you need to educate yourself more about world history... at least recent.
It will give you a good perspective about you own history and help to understand what are most of the American people are about.
Most of Americans came from other countries and cultures long after slavery was abolished.
I agree that they must study the history of their new home but it should go both ways.

Forgive me for being more focused on the U.S. and the history of my people and this country! SMDH!
I'm fully aware of the history of this country and immigration into this country. What you and most of the people who came here after slavery may not realize is that you benefited from the period of Slavery but the only people who have not are the descendants of those slaves!!!

Why is it OK for you to be smug and disinterested in how this country became great and the benefits you now enjoy came at a price. A price paid by my ancestors!!! You should be the very type of person most concerned with the injustices done to Natives and AA's. Your callous indifference is not a good look for you!!!

We all are benefiting from body of work of people from all countries and ages who build human civilization, African Americans included. I give all of them equal due. I do not know how to make history fair. I do not think it is possible.
At lease it was never fair to most of the people. My believe is however that this is not a reason for hate and animosity. Especially against people who have nothing to do with what happened in the past.

OK first off, African Americans have been the most forgiving and LEAST hate driven people in this country DESPITE the hundreds of years of abuse and denial of rights. You are making a HUGE mistake in how you are assessing the situation here. Perhaps if you spent just a little time actually learning about this subject then you'd know what the heck you were talking about.

African Americans greatly outnumbered Whites in many areas of the South after the war. It wasn't until massive European Immigration from the North and overseas that this changed. There were false fears and rumors spread of a massive attack by former slaves to inflict Revenge on the White population. This was a lie and NEVER happened. Some Racist Whites spread the rumors to justify violence against Blacks. In fact the AA's were mostly peaceful, if not fully trusting of the White population, but all they wanted was to be treated fairly and to have freedom to live in peace, but that's not what they got from the White population.

These are the minutes from the historic Meeting between General Sherman of the Union Army and a collection of Black leaders in Savannah. Gen. Sherman wanted to know what the African Americans wanted after they were freed from Slavery. It was this meeting that led to the Infamous 40 Acres and a Mule promise made to African Americans:

Garrison Frazier being chosen by the persons present to express their common sentiments upon the matters of inquiry, makes answers to inquiries as follows:

First: State what your understanding is in regard to the acts of Congress and President Lincoln's [Emancipation] proclamation, touching the condition of the colored people in the Rebel States.

Answer–So far as I understand President Lincoln's proclamation to the Rebellious States, it is, that if they would lay down their arms and submit to the laws of the United States before the first of January, 1863, all should be well; but if they did not, then all the slaves in the Rebel States should be free henceforth and forever. That is what I understood.

Second–State what you understand by Slavery and the freedom that was to be given by the President's proclamation.

Answer–Slavery is, receiving by irresistible power the work of another man, and not by his consent. The freedom, as I understand it, promised by the proclamation, is taking us from under the yoke of bondage, and placing us where we could reap the fruit of our own labor, take care of ourselves and assist the Government in maintaining our freedom.

Third: State in what manner you think you can take care of yourselves, and how can you best assist the Government in maintaining your freedom.

Answer: The way we can best take care of ourselves is to have land, and turn it and till it by our own labor–that is, by the labor of the women and children and old men; and we can soon maintain ourselves and have something to spare. And to assist the Government, the young men should enlist in the service of the Government, and serve in such manner as they may be wanted. (The Rebels told us that they piled them up and made batteries of them, and sold them to Cuba; but we don't believe that.) We want to be placed on land until we are able to buy it and make it our own.

Fourth: State in what manner you would rather live–whether scattered among the whites or in colonies by yourselves.

Answer: I would prefer to live by ourselves, for there is a prejudice against us in the South that will take years to get over; but I do not know that I can answer for my brethren. [Mr. Lynch says he thinks they should not be separated, but live together. All the other persons present, being questioned one by one, answer that they agree with Brother Frazier.]1

Fifth: Do you think that there is intelligence enough among the slaves of the South to maintain themselves under the Government of the United States and the equal protection of its laws, and maintain good and peaceable relations among yourselves and with your neighbors?

Answer–I think there is sufficient intelligence among us to do so.

Sixth–State what is the feeling of the black population of the South toward the Government of the United States; what is the understanding in respect to the present war–its causes and object, and their disposition to aid either side. State fully your views.

Answer–I think you will find there are thousands that are willing to make any sacrifice to assist the Government of the United States, while there are also many that are not willing to take up arms. I do not suppose there are a dozen men that are opposed to the Government. I understand, as to the war, that the South is the aggressor. President Lincoln was elected President by a majority of the United States, which guaranteed him the right of holding the office and exercising that right over the whole United States. The South, without knowing what he would do, rebelled. The war was commenced by the Rebels before he came into office. The object of the war was not at first to give the slaves their freedom, but the sole object of the war was at first to bring the rebellious States back into the Union and their loyalty to the laws of the United States. Afterward, knowing the value set on the slaves by the Rebels, the President thought that his proclamation would stimulate them to lay down their arms, reduce them to obedience, and help to bring back the Rebel States; and their not doing so has now made the freedom of the slaves a part of the war. It is my opinion that there is not a man in this city that could be started to help the Rebels one inch, for that would be suicide. There were two black men left with the Rebels because they had taken an active part for the Rebels, and thought something might befall them if they stayed behind; but there is not another man. If the prayers that have gone up for the Union army could be read out, you would not get through them these two weeks.

Seventh: State whether the sentiments you now express are those only of the colored people in the city; or do they extend to the colored population through the country? and what are your means of knowing the sentiments of those living in the country?

Answer: I think the sentiments are the same among the colored people of the State. My opinion is formed by personal communication in the course of my ministry, and also from the thousands that followed the Union army, leaving their homes and undergoing suffering. I did not think there would be so many; the number surpassed my expectation.

http://www.freedmen.umd.edu/savmtg.htm

I want to expand at my statement you highlighted and argue using the facts of distant past.
I believe that no person leaving now is responsible for any deeds committed by people of his race, nation, or tribe in the past or present. Everyone is responsible only for what he/she has done or not done in his life personally. There is no "group responsibility". The past id dead, the future is just a dream. There is only one thing that matters and is inevitable - current moment.
The rest is just a destruction.

I have done my best to be a good father to my children and i'm proud of how I raised them. They are all happy, healthy and productive members of society. I'm well aware of the need to live in the present. However, my view on history is that it does matter!!! If you don't know your history and the mistakes of the past you can't avoid repeating them.

I just wanted to make it clear that despite your cynical view on things, African Americans have tried to take charge of their lives and improve their lot in life in this country and for hundreds of years those efforts have been interfered with and it was impossible to fully overcome an ENTIRE SYSTEM built to hold them down!!!

I have the 258 year history of my family thru my father's line. I have my 90 and 94 year old Grandmothers and 70 year old father and mother here to testify to much of the injustice of this country towards AA's. My 51 years of life are added to that litany. My MANY ancestors who fought for this country even tho they were mistreated by this country. Starting with my Great, Great Grandfather Abraham Gooden, who was a slave but found his way to the Union Army and fought as a Private in the 24th Regiment U.S. Colored Troops. My Grandfather who got a Purple Heart and a Bronze Star for his service in Italy and Germany and his brothers who fought in WWI and WWII. My Dad who was in Vietnam. I think their lives and struggles deserve to be spoken for, remembered and honored. That things are still unequal bothers me greatly. I'm sorry for you that you can't empathize and have taken a very cynical view despite being a descendent of people who were also greatly wronged not so long ago.

I cannot see anything cynical in what I said.
I do not feel any guilt for the things I haven't done.
And so I do not blame others for what they haven't done.
If my people will not be able to move on after every massacre, segregation, and humiliation we will never survive and rise even hire.
We forgive but not forget. This how our straight is rising.
So you also can obtain this power. It is all inside your mind and in your hands.

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

arkrud wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:- we have not a "race" problem but African American nation problem. We just overlooked that new nation of people get created with specific culture which has no place yet to safe-realize and even cannot yet identifie itself. Racism is also there but this is not the major issue.

I'm sorry but you're going to have to more clearly explain this statement. I can't understand what you're trying to say here. What do you mean by "African American nation problem"? What do you mean by "new nation of people created with specific culture which has no place"?

I'm really not sure what you are saying and want you to elaborate on these points.

Every nation need place to realize it suverenity. It may be independent country or cultural enclave inside multi-national country.
It can be territorial or just cultural identity.
I believe that Afro-Americans are a new nation in the process of self-realization.
There are clearly many people of African race who are not African Americans while leaving in USA. They are representing other nations - like Iruba, Nigerians, etc.
All of then can be a subject of racism. But for African Americans it is obviously more to it.
American nation is a mix of emigrants from all over the world who came here at their own will and many with no intentions to maintain their national identity but rather became American nationals politically and culturally. It is not true however for many people who are there not by their will or were there before colonization like Native Americans and Northers People. They want to maintain their national identity separate from US Americans. And they have all rights to do so.
Same true for African Americans. But I think they just start to realize this national identity.
I think the whole American society will need to realize and embrace it. But this process is complicated and just starting.
It is definitely bigger that this Trump-no-Trump distractions.

WOW! You have a lot of concepts in your post. To simplify things from my perspective I won't try to address all of your points. Let me just say this, African Americans have ALWAYS been part of the fabric of this country! Even when we weren't considered to be so.

AA's have fought in every war this country ever fought. After gaining freedom AA's could've taken violent revenge on a massive scale but in fact that was relatively rare! All AA's ever wanted was to be treated fairly and with respect and to pursue the American Dream!

There was NEVER any justification for violence and oppression inflicted upon AA's. The restraint under the circumstances is a badge of honor and a rebuke to this nation that they were treated so poorly for so long. For what reason were AA's denied their rights or mistreated??? There is no reason other than pure evil and greed.

To this very day this country has never fully lived up to the debt they owe AA's. There would be no America as we know it without AA's. Our story is inextricably intertwined with the history of this country. We are America just as much if not more than most since we gave all for this country and received so little of the spoils of success we helped create. If you don't know what I'm talking about then go look up the many resources on how much AA's contributed to the fortunes of this country.

This is all fair and true.
My question is how you identify yourself and AA people inside America - as a unique nation which need to be treated as such or you want to dissolve into American nation which has no concept or race, nationality, and cultural identity other that American? You cannot have it both ways - it is the choice to be made.
As far as someone owe something to somebody I do not believe in this.
I owe nothing to any nation and no nation owe anything to me.
I rely only on myself and owe only what I managed to achieve.
And I give same right to every other human being to do same.
If you look at the history of the world no nation that was enslaved, murdered, tortured, and displaced get their debt paid off by anybody.
There is no fairness in history. Until oppressed get on right side of the gun they get nothing back.

African Americans didn't choose to be set apart! That was imposed upon them and to a large degree still goes on. AA's wanted to live in a colorblind society but it was the White majority that did not want it. You really don't know or understand the dynamics of race in this country. There is much I could teach you about the TRUTH of this country but you have to want to know the truth.

Natives were mistreated but did receive some recompense and land of their own! Japanese Americans that were wrongfully held in concentration camps received recompense. This country became great largely off the backs of African Slaves and all they did was kick us in the teeth!

Just so we're clear AA's are a large part of the identity and culture of America you can't separate us out of history and have the same country. There's no facet of what made America what it is that doesn't have a connection to the African slaves. That includes the Revolution and the Constitution. Everything was based off of the system of slavery and how that allowed this country to become great.

OK
So all wealth America has is build by slaves...
The rest of the people were just a bunch of cowboys drinking in saloons...
Now what? They should go back to Europe from were they unlawfully came to grab the land, kill and enslave people, and burn the crosses...
And leave everything they grab to local and displaced people to restore the historical fairness.
Obviously it is absurd.
No one has power and right to separate people in any kind of groups.
And it is not needed as they separating themselves without anyone help.
What Native and Japaneses receive is a joke comparing to all dignity that was taking away from them. Not only dignity, everything.
And they will not get it back ever. Even if the whole world will want to give it back to them.
Its gone and not returnable. Last year snow.
The history of the human kind is the history of genocide, destruction, wars, oppression, and injustice.
This how we came around. All of us.
And as we will continue to berry our had in the past and finding enemies and animosities we will never get out of it.
Time to give everyone the clean slate and leave together as one.

Like I said you really have no clue about this subject. I'm my family historian and in my research I've had to also research the family of the people who enslaved my ancestors. I have extensive records on every descendent from the man who enslaved my people. All the land and profits made going back 258 years.

In the census records they actually did detailed financial statements so I have access to just how much money they made off my ancestors hard work. I have copies of the actual record of purchase of my ancestor back in 1758! I have a nearly complete record of births and deaths from that time to the present and I can tell you it is life changing to see it all organized into a coherent record.

I'm planning to visit the area where my ancestors slaved away on plantations and visit the graves. I hope to also find where they may have buried my original ancestors back before they marked the graves of slaves. I can tell you that it's not time to just "give everyone a clean slate and live together as one". This isn't ancient history! I've got relatives still living that lived much of this horrible history.

His challenge is not a lack of understanding, it's indifference, lack of respect for others and a single minded need to rationalize anything that benefits him, however remotely into an absolute positive. It's not an uncommon combination in general.

You guys are amazing in how microscopic and self-centric is your vision of the world.
Little mind in little space.
Good luck living in your little box and slowly carry you little home on your shoulders while the world moving forward at the speed of light.
As far as researching my family - 256 members of it were burned in the chambers on Nazy camps. What compensation should I get from Germans and other Nazy alliance nations? And what is will account for for 6 million people including 2 millions children. How much wealth this slaughtered people will be able to create for human race?
And nobody want to compensate... what a pity...

Microscopic and self centric? Big words and completely irrelevant and out of context like everything else you post. Nothing I said or Nixluva said had anything to do with Nazi Germany. We are talking US history and the role of racism. Try and keep up with the conversation.

Obviously the Jewish Holocaust was horrific. I don't know much about the aftermath and what Germany did to try and apologize for what happened but I do know that this country has not really ever dealt with the issue of Slavery and the wage theft, murder, oppression etc for hundreds of years!!!

In this election we heard a lot about the plight of the White Working Class. They want a return to the good old days. What about AA's? There NEVER were any Good Old Days for AA's. As they say we're still waiting for our 40 Acres and a Mule so to speak.

My Great, Great Grandfather and his children were slaves. A month after the Civil War ended the Freedman's Beureau ordered the former slaves to sign Labor Contracts with the former Slaveholders!
They did not want to. They wanted the land they were promised. Not free land but land they could lease and eventually buy!!!

The Slaveholders convinced the government not to do this. So my Great, Great Grandfather who like most slaves was illiterate signed the work contract with the very man who had enslaved him and all of my ancestors. This was in 1865. By 1870 my Great, Great Grandfather came to own 212 Acres, a home and a Sugar Cane Mill. He employed other people. Unfortunately they lost it all in the 1920's during the Great Depression.

Nix - you need to educate yourself more about world history... at least recent.
It will give you a good perspective about you own history and help to understand what are most of the American people are about.
Most of Americans came from other countries and cultures long after slavery was abolished.
I agree that they must study the history of their new home but it should go both ways.

Forgive me for being more focused on the U.S. and the history of my people and this country! SMDH!
I'm fully aware of the history of this country and immigration into this country. What you and most of the people who came here after slavery may not realize is that you benefited from the period of Slavery but the only people who have not are the descendants of those slaves!!!

Why is it OK for you to be smug and disinterested in how this country became great and the benefits you now enjoy came at a price. A price paid by my ancestors!!! You should be the very type of person most concerned with the injustices done to Natives and AA's. Your callous indifference is not a good look for you!!!

We all are benefiting from body of work of people from all countries and ages who build human civilization, African Americans included. I give all of them equal due. I do not know how to make history fair. I do not think it is possible.
At lease it was never fair to most of the people. My believe is however that this is not a reason for hate and animosity. Especially against people who have nothing to do with what happened in the past.

OK first off, African Americans have been the most forgiving and LEAST hate driven people in this country DESPITE the hundreds of years of abuse and denial of rights. You are making a HUGE mistake in how you are assessing the situation here. Perhaps if you spent just a little time actually learning about this subject then you'd know what the heck you were talking about.

African Americans greatly outnumbered Whites in many areas of the South after the war. It wasn't until massive European Immigration from the North and overseas that this changed. There were false fears and rumors spread of a massive attack by former slaves to inflict Revenge on the White population. This was a lie and NEVER happened. Some Racist Whites spread the rumors to justify violence against Blacks. In fact the AA's were mostly peaceful, if not fully trusting of the White population, but all they wanted was to be treated fairly and to have freedom to live in peace, but that's not what they got from the White population.

These are the minutes from the historic Meeting between General Sherman of the Union Army and a collection of Black leaders in Savannah. Gen. Sherman wanted to know what the African Americans wanted after they were freed from Slavery. It was this meeting that led to the Infamous 40 Acres and a Mule promise made to African Americans:

Garrison Frazier being chosen by the persons present to express their common sentiments upon the matters of inquiry, makes answers to inquiries as follows:

First: State what your understanding is in regard to the acts of Congress and President Lincoln's [Emancipation] proclamation, touching the condition of the colored people in the Rebel States.

Answer–So far as I understand President Lincoln's proclamation to the Rebellious States, it is, that if they would lay down their arms and submit to the laws of the United States before the first of January, 1863, all should be well; but if they did not, then all the slaves in the Rebel States should be free henceforth and forever. That is what I understood.

Second–State what you understand by Slavery and the freedom that was to be given by the President's proclamation.

Answer–Slavery is, receiving by irresistible power the work of another man, and not by his consent. The freedom, as I understand it, promised by the proclamation, is taking us from under the yoke of bondage, and placing us where we could reap the fruit of our own labor, take care of ourselves and assist the Government in maintaining our freedom.

Third: State in what manner you think you can take care of yourselves, and how can you best assist the Government in maintaining your freedom.

Answer: The way we can best take care of ourselves is to have land, and turn it and till it by our own labor–that is, by the labor of the women and children and old men; and we can soon maintain ourselves and have something to spare. And to assist the Government, the young men should enlist in the service of the Government, and serve in such manner as they may be wanted. (The Rebels told us that they piled them up and made batteries of them, and sold them to Cuba; but we don't believe that.) We want to be placed on land until we are able to buy it and make it our own.

Fourth: State in what manner you would rather live–whether scattered among the whites or in colonies by yourselves.

Answer: I would prefer to live by ourselves, for there is a prejudice against us in the South that will take years to get over; but I do not know that I can answer for my brethren. [Mr. Lynch says he thinks they should not be separated, but live together. All the other persons present, being questioned one by one, answer that they agree with Brother Frazier.]1

Fifth: Do you think that there is intelligence enough among the slaves of the South to maintain themselves under the Government of the United States and the equal protection of its laws, and maintain good and peaceable relations among yourselves and with your neighbors?

Answer–I think there is sufficient intelligence among us to do so.

Sixth–State what is the feeling of the black population of the South toward the Government of the United States; what is the understanding in respect to the present war–its causes and object, and their disposition to aid either side. State fully your views.

Answer–I think you will find there are thousands that are willing to make any sacrifice to assist the Government of the United States, while there are also many that are not willing to take up arms. I do not suppose there are a dozen men that are opposed to the Government. I understand, as to the war, that the South is the aggressor. President Lincoln was elected President by a majority of the United States, which guaranteed him the right of holding the office and exercising that right over the whole United States. The South, without knowing what he would do, rebelled. The war was commenced by the Rebels before he came into office. The object of the war was not at first to give the slaves their freedom, but the sole object of the war was at first to bring the rebellious States back into the Union and their loyalty to the laws of the United States. Afterward, knowing the value set on the slaves by the Rebels, the President thought that his proclamation would stimulate them to lay down their arms, reduce them to obedience, and help to bring back the Rebel States; and their not doing so has now made the freedom of the slaves a part of the war. It is my opinion that there is not a man in this city that could be started to help the Rebels one inch, for that would be suicide. There were two black men left with the Rebels because they had taken an active part for the Rebels, and thought something might befall them if they stayed behind; but there is not another man. If the prayers that have gone up for the Union army could be read out, you would not get through them these two weeks.

Seventh: State whether the sentiments you now express are those only of the colored people in the city; or do they extend to the colored population through the country? and what are your means of knowing the sentiments of those living in the country?

Answer: I think the sentiments are the same among the colored people of the State. My opinion is formed by personal communication in the course of my ministry, and also from the thousands that followed the Union army, leaving their homes and undergoing suffering. I did not think there would be so many; the number surpassed my expectation.

http://www.freedmen.umd.edu/savmtg.htm

I want to expand at my statement you highlighted and argue using the facts of distant past.
I believe that no person leaving now is responsible for any deeds committed by people of his race, nation, or tribe in the past or present. Everyone is responsible only for what he/she has done or not done in his life personally. There is no "group responsibility". The past id dead, the future is just a dream. There is only one thing that matters and is inevitable - current moment.
The rest is just a destruction.

I have done my best to be a good father to my children and i'm proud of how I raised them. They are all happy, healthy and productive members of society. I'm well aware of the need to live in the present. However, my view on history is that it does matter!!! If you don't know your history and the mistakes of the past you can't avoid repeating them.

I just wanted to make it clear that despite your cynical view on things, African Americans have tried to take charge of their lives and improve their lot in life in this country and for hundreds of years those efforts have been interfered with and it was impossible to fully overcome an ENTIRE SYSTEM built to hold them down!!!

I have the 258 year history of my family thru my father's line. I have my 90 and 94 year old Grandmothers and 70 year old father and mother here to testify to much of the injustice of this country towards AA's. My 51 years of life are added to that litany. My MANY ancestors who fought for this country even tho they were mistreated by this country. Starting with my Great, Great Grandfather Abraham Gooden, who was a slave but found his way to the Union Army and fought as a Private in the 24th Regiment U.S. Colored Troops. My Grandfather who got a Purple Heart and a Bronze Star for his service in Italy and Germany and his brothers who fought in WWI and WWII. My Dad who was in Vietnam. I think their lives and struggles deserve to be spoken for, remembered and honored. That things are still unequal bothers me greatly. I'm sorry for you that you can't empathize and have taken a very cynical view despite being a descendent of people who were also greatly wronged not so long ago.

I cannot see anything cynical in what I said.
I do not feel any guilt for the things I haven't done.
And so I do not blame others for what they haven't done.
If my people will not be able to move on after every massacre, segregation, and humiliation we will never survive and rise even hire.
We forgive but not forget. This how our straight is rising.
So you also can obtain this power. It is all inside your mind and in your hands.

You seem to be very Cynical and Insensitive IMO. For one thing do you think that AA's haven't been fighting and struggling against great odds for their entire existence in this country??? You are assuming that all we had to do was just WORK HARDER and everything would've worked out great for us like the Jews!!! You are woefully ignorant of how society really worked here and still works in many areas. I find your callous disregard for the impacts of Systemic Racism astounding! You my friend are ignorant of many things and IMO people who think like you are a large part of the problem. By refusing to accept the evidence of the Systemic Racism:

You are part of the crowd that doesn't see the persistent Voter Suppression that has gone on.
You are part of the crowd that doesn't see the history of Redlining and how that impacted Black Families.
You are part of the crowd that doesn't see the impact of Predatory Lending that has robbed Black and Latino Families and ruined lives.
You are part of the crowd that doesn't see the devastation of the Racially Biased Judicial System, over Policing and Prison Industrial Complex that has ravaged the Black and Latino Communities.
You are part of the crowd that doesn't see the inequities throughout this system that have ALWAYS existed and keep minorities from achieving more of the American Dream.

Instead you seem to think it's all in our heads and that we should have nothing standing in our way of achieving more success. You know cuz it's all in the past and that kind of stuff doesn't happen anymore. Unlike Jewish Americans, African Americans could not even come close to blending in with White Society and climbing up ladders to success:

With its establishment in 1948, the State of Israel became the focal point of American Jewish life and philanthropy, as well as the symbol around which American Jews united. At the same time, American Jews worked in the years following World War II to reinvigorate American Jewish life. Five major themes defined the immediate postwar decades:

1. the decline of antisemitism
2. a massive movement of American Jews from cities to suburbs
3. the emergence of an American Jewish communal order emphasizing Israel and political liberalism
4. a large internal immigration of Jews to the American Sun Belt (particularly Los Angeles and Miami)
5. glowing optimism concerning the American Jewish community and its future.

Burgeoning economic growth, increasing popular acceptance of religious and cultural pluralism, the high education achievements of native-born Jews, and an overpowering desire on the part of many Jews to "make it" in America all contributed during these decades to a spectacular rise of American Jews to positions of authority and respect within the general American community.

Now just compare this with the circumstances of African Americans during the same time period from 1948. AA's were already in a far worse position in this country before the War and things didn't suddenly transform immediately following the war. There is no comparison with the opportunities Jewish Americans had versus African Americans.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2016/12/15/north_carolina_legislative_coup_an_attack_on_democracy.html

Republicans in the North Carolina General Assembly staged a shocking legislative coup on Wednesday night, calling a second special session and proposing a raft of measures designed to strip power from the newly progressive state Supreme Court and governorship. This last-minute power grab marks an alarming departure from basic democratic norms—a blatant attempt to overturn the results of an election by curtailing judicial independence and restructuring the government to seize authority lawfully delegated to the incoming Democratic governor.

The trouble in North Carolina began when Republican Gov. Pat McCrory lost his re-election bid, likely because of his support for the anti-LGBTQ law known as HB2. At the same time that voters replaced McCrory with Democrat Roy Cooper, they ousted a conservative state Supreme Court justice in favor of a progressive. That tilted the balance of power on the court to a 4–3 liberal majority, ending an era in which the court’s conservatives could rubber stamp the legislature’s voter suppression and gerrymandering.

Because of this gerrymandering, Republicans retained a supermajority in the state legislature, even while losing the governorship and Supreme Court. (A federal court ordered the legislature to redraw its maps and hold new elections, but those won’t occur until 2017.) Rumors floated around the capital that Republican legislators would either throw out the results of the gubernatorial election and reinstall McCrory by citing baseless allegations of election fraud or add two seats to the Supreme Court and let McCrory fill them, restoring Republican control. McCrory eventually conceded defeat when a partial recount could not close his 10,000 vote deficit. But concerns over court-packing grew when McCrory called a special legislative session, ostensibly to pass a disaster relief package.

That session did, indeed, result in a disaster relief bill. However, as it drew to a close on Wednesday, Republican leaders called another special session—with the explicit aim of curbing the authority of both Cooper and the court. They promptly put forth a series of dramatic alterations to the government’s structure, including proposals to:

Overhaul county election boards to prevent Democratic control. Current law states that each county election board must be made up of three members: two of which should come from the governor’s party. The new proposal would give each election board four members—two Democrats and two Republicans—to prevent Democrats from taking control of the boards.

Overhaul the State Board of Elections by merging it with the State Ethics Commission and increasing its size. Right now, the law states that the election board must have five members, with three from the governor’s party. The new law would give it eight members—four Democrats and four Republicans—to forestall a Democratic advantage when Cooper takes office.

Allow a Democrat to chair the State Board of Elections in odd-numbered years—when there are typically no elections—and allow a Republican to chair the board in even-numbered years—when state and federal elections are normally held.
Make Supreme Court elections partisan and introduce party primaries. Republicans believe they lost the 2016 Supreme Court election because the candidates lacked a partisan identification.

Completely change the appeals process in order to limit the state Supreme Court’s authority. When Republicans took power, they provided citizens with the right to appeal constitutional challenges from superior court directly to the state Supreme Court. The new measure would remove this right, requiring constitutional challenges to be heard by all 15 judges of the court of appeals—which is dominated by Republicans—before reaching the state Supreme Court.

Allow McCrory to pick the Industrial Commission chairman, who will service for the next four years. Under current law, Cooper should have the opportunity to fill this position.

Reduce the number of state employees who serve at the pleasure of the governor. When McCrory took office, Republicans increased this number from 500 to 1,500. They now propose reducing it to 300.

Remove Cooper’s ability to appoint trustees to run campuses in the University of North Carolina system—and transfer that power to the state legislature.

Require Senate confirmation of Cooper’s Cabinet appointments. McCrory’s appointments did not require Senate approval.
Confirm McCrory’s closest ally, state budget director Andrew Heath, to a superior court judgeship.

Abolish car-emissions testing in many counties; eliminate some state environmental reports; and remove scientists from certain state boards tasked with protecting public health, replacing them with industry representatives.

These proposals are not merely designed to negate the will of the voters in this election. They are also intended to maintain Republican-sponsored voter suppression, thereby preventing Democrats from ever regaining control of the North Carolina government. North Carolina Republicans have long strived to prevent black citizens from voting; after the Supreme Court gutted the Voting Rights Act in 2013, they requested data on voting preferences by race, then passed an omnibus voter suppression that, as one federal appeals court put it, seemed to “target African Americans with almost surgical precision.”

Although that court invalidated the law, Republican-controlled county election boards implemented much of it anyway, curtailing early voting and slashing the number of precincts in majority-black counties. These election boards also allowed Republicans to disenfranchise black Democrats—without their knowledge—in violation of federal law. With Cooper’s victory, Democrats were poised to take control of these election boards, thereby restoring voting rights throughout the state. The new measures will deny Democrats this right. They will also significantly delay challenges to the legality of voter suppression methods, drawing out the process for years before the state Supreme Court can hear these cases.

What’s happening in North Carolina is not politics as usual. It is an extraordinarily disturbing legislative coup, a flagrant effort to maintain one-party rule by rejecting democratic norms and revoking the will of the voters. It is the kind of thing we might expect to see in Venezuela, not a U.S. state. It should terrify every American citizen who believes in the rule of law. This is so much more than a partisan power grab. This is an attack on democracy itself.

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

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nixluva wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

arkrud wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:- we have not a "race" problem but African American nation problem. We just overlooked that new nation of people get created with specific culture which has no place yet to safe-realize and even cannot yet identifie itself. Racism is also there but this is not the major issue.

I'm sorry but you're going to have to more clearly explain this statement. I can't understand what you're trying to say here. What do you mean by "African American nation problem"? What do you mean by "new nation of people created with specific culture which has no place"?

I'm really not sure what you are saying and want you to elaborate on these points.

Every nation need place to realize it suverenity. It may be independent country or cultural enclave inside multi-national country.
It can be territorial or just cultural identity.
I believe that Afro-Americans are a new nation in the process of self-realization.
There are clearly many people of African race who are not African Americans while leaving in USA. They are representing other nations - like Iruba, Nigerians, etc.
All of then can be a subject of racism. But for African Americans it is obviously more to it.
American nation is a mix of emigrants from all over the world who came here at their own will and many with no intentions to maintain their national identity but rather became American nationals politically and culturally. It is not true however for many people who are there not by their will or were there before colonization like Native Americans and Northers People. They want to maintain their national identity separate from US Americans. And they have all rights to do so.
Same true for African Americans. But I think they just start to realize this national identity.
I think the whole American society will need to realize and embrace it. But this process is complicated and just starting.
It is definitely bigger that this Trump-no-Trump distractions.

WOW! You have a lot of concepts in your post. To simplify things from my perspective I won't try to address all of your points. Let me just say this, African Americans have ALWAYS been part of the fabric of this country! Even when we weren't considered to be so.

AA's have fought in every war this country ever fought. After gaining freedom AA's could've taken violent revenge on a massive scale but in fact that was relatively rare! All AA's ever wanted was to be treated fairly and with respect and to pursue the American Dream!

There was NEVER any justification for violence and oppression inflicted upon AA's. The restraint under the circumstances is a badge of honor and a rebuke to this nation that they were treated so poorly for so long. For what reason were AA's denied their rights or mistreated??? There is no reason other than pure evil and greed.

To this very day this country has never fully lived up to the debt they owe AA's. There would be no America as we know it without AA's. Our story is inextricably intertwined with the history of this country. We are America just as much if not more than most since we gave all for this country and received so little of the spoils of success we helped create. If you don't know what I'm talking about then go look up the many resources on how much AA's contributed to the fortunes of this country.

This is all fair and true.
My question is how you identify yourself and AA people inside America - as a unique nation which need to be treated as such or you want to dissolve into American nation which has no concept or race, nationality, and cultural identity other that American? You cannot have it both ways - it is the choice to be made.
As far as someone owe something to somebody I do not believe in this.
I owe nothing to any nation and no nation owe anything to me.
I rely only on myself and owe only what I managed to achieve.
And I give same right to every other human being to do same.
If you look at the history of the world no nation that was enslaved, murdered, tortured, and displaced get their debt paid off by anybody.
There is no fairness in history. Until oppressed get on right side of the gun they get nothing back.

African Americans didn't choose to be set apart! That was imposed upon them and to a large degree still goes on. AA's wanted to live in a colorblind society but it was the White majority that did not want it. You really don't know or understand the dynamics of race in this country. There is much I could teach you about the TRUTH of this country but you have to want to know the truth.

Natives were mistreated but did receive some recompense and land of their own! Japanese Americans that were wrongfully held in concentration camps received recompense. This country became great largely off the backs of African Slaves and all they did was kick us in the teeth!

Just so we're clear AA's are a large part of the identity and culture of America you can't separate us out of history and have the same country. There's no facet of what made America what it is that doesn't have a connection to the African slaves. That includes the Revolution and the Constitution. Everything was based off of the system of slavery and how that allowed this country to become great.

OK
So all wealth America has is build by slaves...
The rest of the people were just a bunch of cowboys drinking in saloons...
Now what? They should go back to Europe from were they unlawfully came to grab the land, kill and enslave people, and burn the crosses...
And leave everything they grab to local and displaced people to restore the historical fairness.
Obviously it is absurd.
No one has power and right to separate people in any kind of groups.
And it is not needed as they separating themselves without anyone help.
What Native and Japaneses receive is a joke comparing to all dignity that was taking away from them. Not only dignity, everything.
And they will not get it back ever. Even if the whole world will want to give it back to them.
Its gone and not returnable. Last year snow.
The history of the human kind is the history of genocide, destruction, wars, oppression, and injustice.
This how we came around. All of us.
And as we will continue to berry our had in the past and finding enemies and animosities we will never get out of it.
Time to give everyone the clean slate and leave together as one.

Like I said you really have no clue about this subject. I'm my family historian and in my research I've had to also research the family of the people who enslaved my ancestors. I have extensive records on every descendent from the man who enslaved my people. All the land and profits made going back 258 years.

In the census records they actually did detailed financial statements so I have access to just how much money they made off my ancestors hard work. I have copies of the actual record of purchase of my ancestor back in 1758! I have a nearly complete record of births and deaths from that time to the present and I can tell you it is life changing to see it all organized into a coherent record.

I'm planning to visit the area where my ancestors slaved away on plantations and visit the graves. I hope to also find where they may have buried my original ancestors back before they marked the graves of slaves. I can tell you that it's not time to just "give everyone a clean slate and live together as one". This isn't ancient history! I've got relatives still living that lived much of this horrible history.

His challenge is not a lack of understanding, it's indifference, lack of respect for others and a single minded need to rationalize anything that benefits him, however remotely into an absolute positive. It's not an uncommon combination in general.

You guys are amazing in how microscopic and self-centric is your vision of the world.
Little mind in little space.
Good luck living in your little box and slowly carry you little home on your shoulders while the world moving forward at the speed of light.
As far as researching my family - 256 members of it were burned in the chambers on Nazy camps. What compensation should I get from Germans and other Nazy alliance nations? And what is will account for for 6 million people including 2 millions children. How much wealth this slaughtered people will be able to create for human race?
And nobody want to compensate... what a pity...

Microscopic and self centric? Big words and completely irrelevant and out of context like everything else you post. Nothing I said or Nixluva said had anything to do with Nazi Germany. We are talking US history and the role of racism. Try and keep up with the conversation.

Obviously the Jewish Holocaust was horrific. I don't know much about the aftermath and what Germany did to try and apologize for what happened but I do know that this country has not really ever dealt with the issue of Slavery and the wage theft, murder, oppression etc for hundreds of years!!!

In this election we heard a lot about the plight of the White Working Class. They want a return to the good old days. What about AA's? There NEVER were any Good Old Days for AA's. As they say we're still waiting for our 40 Acres and a Mule so to speak.

My Great, Great Grandfather and his children were slaves. A month after the Civil War ended the Freedman's Beureau ordered the former slaves to sign Labor Contracts with the former Slaveholders!
They did not want to. They wanted the land they were promised. Not free land but land they could lease and eventually buy!!!

The Slaveholders convinced the government not to do this. So my Great, Great Grandfather who like most slaves was illiterate signed the work contract with the very man who had enslaved him and all of my ancestors. This was in 1865. By 1870 my Great, Great Grandfather came to own 212 Acres, a home and a Sugar Cane Mill. He employed other people. Unfortunately they lost it all in the 1920's during the Great Depression.

Nix - you need to educate yourself more about world history... at least recent.
It will give you a good perspective about you own history and help to understand what are most of the American people are about.
Most of Americans came from other countries and cultures long after slavery was abolished.
I agree that they must study the history of their new home but it should go both ways.

Forgive me for being more focused on the U.S. and the history of my people and this country! SMDH!
I'm fully aware of the history of this country and immigration into this country. What you and most of the people who came here after slavery may not realize is that you benefited from the period of Slavery but the only people who have not are the descendants of those slaves!!!

Why is it OK for you to be smug and disinterested in how this country became great and the benefits you now enjoy came at a price. A price paid by my ancestors!!! You should be the very type of person most concerned with the injustices done to Natives and AA's. Your callous indifference is not a good look for you!!!

We all are benefiting from body of work of people from all countries and ages who build human civilization, African Americans included. I give all of them equal due. I do not know how to make history fair. I do not think it is possible.
At lease it was never fair to most of the people. My believe is however that this is not a reason for hate and animosity. Especially against people who have nothing to do with what happened in the past.

OK first off, African Americans have been the most forgiving and LEAST hate driven people in this country DESPITE the hundreds of years of abuse and denial of rights. You are making a HUGE mistake in how you are assessing the situation here. Perhaps if you spent just a little time actually learning about this subject then you'd know what the heck you were talking about.

African Americans greatly outnumbered Whites in many areas of the South after the war. It wasn't until massive European Immigration from the North and overseas that this changed. There were false fears and rumors spread of a massive attack by former slaves to inflict Revenge on the White population. This was a lie and NEVER happened. Some Racist Whites spread the rumors to justify violence against Blacks. In fact the AA's were mostly peaceful, if not fully trusting of the White population, but all they wanted was to be treated fairly and to have freedom to live in peace, but that's not what they got from the White population.

These are the minutes from the historic Meeting between General Sherman of the Union Army and a collection of Black leaders in Savannah. Gen. Sherman wanted to know what the African Americans wanted after they were freed from Slavery. It was this meeting that led to the Infamous 40 Acres and a Mule promise made to African Americans:

Garrison Frazier being chosen by the persons present to express their common sentiments upon the matters of inquiry, makes answers to inquiries as follows:

First: State what your understanding is in regard to the acts of Congress and President Lincoln's [Emancipation] proclamation, touching the condition of the colored people in the Rebel States.

Answer–So far as I understand President Lincoln's proclamation to the Rebellious States, it is, that if they would lay down their arms and submit to the laws of the United States before the first of January, 1863, all should be well; but if they did not, then all the slaves in the Rebel States should be free henceforth and forever. That is what I understood.

Second–State what you understand by Slavery and the freedom that was to be given by the President's proclamation.

Answer–Slavery is, receiving by irresistible power the work of another man, and not by his consent. The freedom, as I understand it, promised by the proclamation, is taking us from under the yoke of bondage, and placing us where we could reap the fruit of our own labor, take care of ourselves and assist the Government in maintaining our freedom.

Third: State in what manner you think you can take care of yourselves, and how can you best assist the Government in maintaining your freedom.

Answer: The way we can best take care of ourselves is to have land, and turn it and till it by our own labor–that is, by the labor of the women and children and old men; and we can soon maintain ourselves and have something to spare. And to assist the Government, the young men should enlist in the service of the Government, and serve in such manner as they may be wanted. (The Rebels told us that they piled them up and made batteries of them, and sold them to Cuba; but we don't believe that.) We want to be placed on land until we are able to buy it and make it our own.

Fourth: State in what manner you would rather live–whether scattered among the whites or in colonies by yourselves.

Answer: I would prefer to live by ourselves, for there is a prejudice against us in the South that will take years to get over; but I do not know that I can answer for my brethren. [Mr. Lynch says he thinks they should not be separated, but live together. All the other persons present, being questioned one by one, answer that they agree with Brother Frazier.]1

Fifth: Do you think that there is intelligence enough among the slaves of the South to maintain themselves under the Government of the United States and the equal protection of its laws, and maintain good and peaceable relations among yourselves and with your neighbors?

Answer–I think there is sufficient intelligence among us to do so.

Sixth–State what is the feeling of the black population of the South toward the Government of the United States; what is the understanding in respect to the present war–its causes and object, and their disposition to aid either side. State fully your views.

Answer–I think you will find there are thousands that are willing to make any sacrifice to assist the Government of the United States, while there are also many that are not willing to take up arms. I do not suppose there are a dozen men that are opposed to the Government. I understand, as to the war, that the South is the aggressor. President Lincoln was elected President by a majority of the United States, which guaranteed him the right of holding the office and exercising that right over the whole United States. The South, without knowing what he would do, rebelled. The war was commenced by the Rebels before he came into office. The object of the war was not at first to give the slaves their freedom, but the sole object of the war was at first to bring the rebellious States back into the Union and their loyalty to the laws of the United States. Afterward, knowing the value set on the slaves by the Rebels, the President thought that his proclamation would stimulate them to lay down their arms, reduce them to obedience, and help to bring back the Rebel States; and their not doing so has now made the freedom of the slaves a part of the war. It is my opinion that there is not a man in this city that could be started to help the Rebels one inch, for that would be suicide. There were two black men left with the Rebels because they had taken an active part for the Rebels, and thought something might befall them if they stayed behind; but there is not another man. If the prayers that have gone up for the Union army could be read out, you would not get through them these two weeks.

Seventh: State whether the sentiments you now express are those only of the colored people in the city; or do they extend to the colored population through the country? and what are your means of knowing the sentiments of those living in the country?

Answer: I think the sentiments are the same among the colored people of the State. My opinion is formed by personal communication in the course of my ministry, and also from the thousands that followed the Union army, leaving their homes and undergoing suffering. I did not think there would be so many; the number surpassed my expectation.

http://www.freedmen.umd.edu/savmtg.htm

I want to expand at my statement you highlighted and argue using the facts of distant past.
I believe that no person leaving now is responsible for any deeds committed by people of his race, nation, or tribe in the past or present. Everyone is responsible only for what he/she has done or not done in his life personally. There is no "group responsibility". The past id dead, the future is just a dream. There is only one thing that matters and is inevitable - current moment.
The rest is just a destruction.

I have done my best to be a good father to my children and i'm proud of how I raised them. They are all happy, healthy and productive members of society. I'm well aware of the need to live in the present. However, my view on history is that it does matter!!! If you don't know your history and the mistakes of the past you can't avoid repeating them.

I just wanted to make it clear that despite your cynical view on things, African Americans have tried to take charge of their lives and improve their lot in life in this country and for hundreds of years those efforts have been interfered with and it was impossible to fully overcome an ENTIRE SYSTEM built to hold them down!!!

I have the 258 year history of my family thru my father's line. I have my 90 and 94 year old Grandmothers and 70 year old father and mother here to testify to much of the injustice of this country towards AA's. My 51 years of life are added to that litany. My MANY ancestors who fought for this country even tho they were mistreated by this country. Starting with my Great, Great Grandfather Abraham Gooden, who was a slave but found his way to the Union Army and fought as a Private in the 24th Regiment U.S. Colored Troops. My Grandfather who got a Purple Heart and a Bronze Star for his service in Italy and Germany and his brothers who fought in WWI and WWII. My Dad who was in Vietnam. I think their lives and struggles deserve to be spoken for, remembered and honored. That things are still unequal bothers me greatly. I'm sorry for you that you can't empathize and have taken a very cynical view despite being a descendent of people who were also greatly wronged not so long ago.

I cannot see anything cynical in what I said.
I do not feel any guilt for the things I haven't done.
And so I do not blame others for what they haven't done.
If my people will not be able to move on after every massacre, segregation, and humiliation we will never survive and rise even hire.
We forgive but not forget. This how our straight is rising.
So you also can obtain this power. It is all inside your mind and in your hands.

You seem to be very Cynical and Insensitive IMO. For one thing do you think that AA's haven't been fighting and struggling against great odds for their entire existence in this country??? You are assuming that all we had to do was just WORK HARDER and everything would've worked out great for us like the Jews!!! You are woefully ignorant of how society really worked here and still works in many areas. I find your callous disregard for the impacts of Systemic Racism astounding! You my friend are ignorant of many things and IMO people who think like you are a large part of the problem. By refusing to accept the evidence of the Systemic Racism:

You are part of the crowd that doesn't see the persistent Voter Suppression that has gone on.
You are part of the crowd that doesn't see the history of Redlining and how that impacted Black Families.
You are part of the crowd that doesn't see the impact of Predatory Lending that has robbed Black and Latino Families and ruined lives.
You are part of the crowd that doesn't see the devastation of the Racially Biased Judicial System, over Policing and Prison Industrial Complex that has ravaged the Black and Latino Communities.
You are part of the crowd that doesn't see the inequities throughout this system that have ALWAYS existed and keep minorities from achieving more of the American Dream.

Instead you seem to think it's all in our heads and that we should have nothing standing in our way of achieving more success. You know cuz it's all in the past and that kind of stuff doesn't happen anymore. Unlike Jewish Americans, African Americans could not even come close to blending in with White Society and climbing up ladders to success:

With its establishment in 1948, the State of Israel became the focal point of American Jewish life and philanthropy, as well as the symbol around which American Jews united. At the same time, American Jews worked in the years following World War II to reinvigorate American Jewish life. Five major themes defined the immediate postwar decades:

1. the decline of antisemitism
2. a massive movement of American Jews from cities to suburbs
3. the emergence of an American Jewish communal order emphasizing Israel and political liberalism
4. a large internal immigration of Jews to the American Sun Belt (particularly Los Angeles and Miami)
5. glowing optimism concerning the American Jewish community and its future.

Burgeoning economic growth, increasing popular acceptance of religious and cultural pluralism, the high education achievements of native-born Jews, and an overpowering desire on the part of many Jews to "make it" in America all contributed during these decades to a spectacular rise of American Jews to positions of authority and respect within the general American community.

http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/tserve/twenty/tkeyinfo/jewishexpb.htm

Now just compare this with the circumstances of African Americans during the same time period from 1948. AA's were already in a far worse position in this country before the War and things didn't suddenly transform immediately following the war. There is no comparison with the opportunities Jewish Americans had versus African Americans.

You are making a lot of assumption about what I think or said.
Its more like what you think about what I think.
During Civil Right Movement AA and American Jews were fighting together against racism and segregation and we achieved great success.
Unfortunately some political leaders in black movement at some point chose antisemitism as ideology and decided to part ways with Jewish democratic movement. The Black Muslim influence with it natural animosity against Jews as well as anti-Judaism undertones in Christianity are also to blame.
As per Israel AA had a similar opportunity in Liberia which failed for many reasons...
Integration is a compromise and Jews muster the art of compromise for 5555 years we keep counting.
The main thing we are not generalizing our enemies to not became as bigoted as they are.
As soon as you start hanging all dogs on faceless "whites" you get real white racist to get away with murder.
Every person is caring his own load and I know you do your part and more for your community.
And every racist is caring his own own responsibility for his actions which should not be flattened around people he looks alike basically bailing him out.