TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:First it was "It's too early to put him in the MVP race after 5 games."

14 games in, he's still there. And he'll be there throughout all 82.

Yea. Carmelo Anthony is for real.

along with about 10-12 other guys.. but it is a 2 dog race.... lebron and Durant..

Where's Gallinari? Just curious.

in Denver..

1800 miles away from MSG. Works for me.

yea, gallo likes the cool young vibe out in denver... no need to hang around the nursing home otherwise known as MSG..

...What the hell?

rofl!!!!! dude, just wasting time with a poster that wanted to engage in childish banter, and i obliged.. one of my low moments I guess....

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

3G4G wrote:MVP Results of the Past 9-10yrs of Melo's career

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2012.html#mvp Melo not on the list

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2011.html#mvp Melo not on the list

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2010.html#mvp Melo finished 6th

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2009.html#mvp Melo not on the list....

Billups finished 6th trolol you know the guy a couple of us said was better or more important than Melo this season but some rascals in this very thread tried to beg to differ. Just like a small few are saying Kidd is as impactful as Melo to this current team

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2008.html#mvp Melo finished 13th

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2007.html#mvp Melo finished 15th

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2006.html#mvp Melo not on the list

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2005.html#mvp Melo not on the list

Camby finished 15th trolol you know Melo never played with anybody worthy while in Denver

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2004.html#mvp Melo finished 14th

I see Melo by season's end finishing really no better than the 2010 season as 6th. Ironic analyst felt this was his was his best season as a player TEAM impact, which probably doesn't match up with what most fans felt was his best season

good research and great find on billups.. both of us were saying he was as important to that team than anyone, of course we felt the backlash.. haha

know what else I noticed that I mentioned before.. look who names shows up on that list quite a bit...

yep our very own, Amare!!!!! who I said when healthy is the best player on the knicks...

Yea when Denver wins its because of Billups and Camby, when they lose its because of Melo.

Amare was rated high on the MVP ladder and didn't make anyone better, he was just a high production guy with everything tailored for him with Gallo and Chandler spacing the floor, Fields rebounding well at the guard spot to cover for Gallo, Chandler and Amare's average rebounding ability and Raymond Felton playing at allstar level in MDA's system. You could say Raymond Felton was as important to the Knicks improvement as Amare since we all know Amare isn't as good without a PG create for him.

Rick Carlisle stated they won the champonship because Jason Kidd allowed them to not run any set plays which stopped Miami's ability to set there defense. Kept them off balance. Chandler basically covered for Dirk's weaknesses in the post. Nobody else looks to down grade Dirk because he needed Kidd and Chandler to help him win one.

Its clear though that you guys will choose who you D ride and who you will hate on based on personal opinion and not standards that you will hold everyone accountable for reguardless.

as i have been saying the award is generally too arbitrary to even discuss rationally. look at your post-- you make the false assumption that the award is somehow NOT based on personal opinion and umbrella standards. don't you see how absurd that assertion is?

nevertheless lets play your game by your rules: if i am a sportcaster or sportswriter amare's performance was fool's gold and he was not an mvp candidate-- that was just sentimentality and marketing. he got his in a vacuum and therefore at the expense of his teammates. that's not mvp work.

dirk learned how to play with his back to the basket and learned to read converging doubles that kept the ball ahead of defenders. and his TS% for the season was an elite 61.2. usg 28 and assist rate 14.2. translation: incredibly efficient in isolation when necessary and did not hurt his team. in the playoffs he was even more dominant.

what is alarming-- and damning-- is that amare and melo's numbers are basically the same: TS, USG, assist rate all within a point of each other.

seeing is believing and when you look at the stats it backs up what you see-- unless you are a carmelo anthony acolyte.

what few people realize is that so many players they think are great are, at the end of the day, fool's gold, close to zero-sum players.

I don't think Melo will win the MVP, Only reason Y I would care if he did would be because it would raise up his status and attrack other star players to want to play with him even more if he is viewed as that calibre of player especially with in 3yrs we will have cap flexibility. And it would mean we were one of the better teams in the NBA by seasons end and we are playing great basketball. Other then that I never really cared for MVP.

99% of the board already agreed that it was premature, and 99% of the board understands the uphill battle he will have to go through to actually win the award. At the same time wouldn't it be cool for a Knick to win something like that? Or is it not cool because its Melo.

The argument about Melo being MVP on this thread is more about the ppl who act like its blasphemy to mention something like that, rather then trying to defend how great Melo is.

blasphemy? nah just unrealistic when you look at how dominant a season you have to have. looking at the past winners it has been either a runaway for one player or a not so evenly matched two-man race. every player 3rd and beyond suffers a shellacking when the votes are tabulated.

the closest antecedent for melo in the mvp race is karl malone... right?

ts% 60 elite
10 rebounds a game
4.4 assists a game
32 usg but assisted on 25% of his shots so he was not a black hole

even with help carmelo's numbers don't hold up, ie 08-09 with billups

ts% 53 not good at all
7 rebounds
3.4 assists
32 usg and assisted on 18% of his shots so he was something of a black hole

this year thus far

ts% 57.5 is no question better, best of his career for the first 14 games leastaways. can he keep it up or will he revert to his career average of an anemic 54%? odds are against his keeping it up, aren't they?
7 rebounds
2 assists
34 usg and assisted on 10% of his shots.... yikes

This thread was made becuase the TS was having fun with the idea due to the Knicks winning. It turned into a 600reply thread only due to the amount of negative energy Melo seems to attrack from a certain group of posters. You make the same thread for Amare last season and there isn't a group of posters dedicated to making sure that everyone knows that Amare isn't good enough to win the MVP due to his average rebounding ability, defense, and passing ability.

tkf wrote:

Anji wrote:How many base writers do you think vote for the NBA Mvp award???

If the knicks have one of the best record in the league Melo will be considered heavily, that's all the thread is about.

TS, BS, OBP, OPP, be damned.

WHAT IS considered heavily? you either get votes or you don't.. what some of us are saying is that this applies for a lot of other guys as well.... and honestly at this point, it is a two horse race.... every year a number of guys are considered heavily and don't get votes... just trying to figure out after 4 games how was this thread worthy?

It doesn't apply to a lot of guys.

It applies to about 10 players out of the 300+ players in the league.

It's a pretty special group.

3G4G wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:He's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. Rightly or wrongly, if that continues, he will definitely get MVP consideration. I've never disputed that. The MVP voting is usually distributed simply among the top scorers on each of the 3 or 5 top teams in the league.

What's working against Anthony are several things...

Lebron and Durant being first and foremost

The fact he's not going to get enough 1rst place votes to begin with....Lebron and Durant will garnish enough 1rst and 2nd place votes taking away his potential pool of points

He'll be grouped with the next bunch of players who'll then eat up his ability to score high with the majority of 2nd/3rd/4th place votes. These votes will be evenly distributed amongst the next 4-5 players in the mix

Anthony has zero shot of winning MVP unless he beats Lebron/Durant every single time they play and clearly outplay them, we have to finish with better records than both and Anthony needs to have his best season as a pro

Anthony being a legitimate candidate is no more noteworthy than

Zach Randolph
Rajon Rondo
Jrue Holiday
Chris Paul
Tim Duncan
Kobe Bryant
James Harden
Al Horford
Deron Williams

With the potential for many others to enter the discussion as legit candidates as the season progresses...such as Dirk/Love

The continuance of all this MVP/Power Ranking talk is comical. Especially the Power Ranking talk of recent. Look this is the NBA not College Football. The Knicks are not playing basketball games for a chance at a BSC birth...so the PRs are really futile as all get out.

We're not going to the Rose Bowl/Sugar Bowl/Fiesta Bowl/Orange Bowl/Cotton Bowl/Capital One Bowl/Gator Bowl/Holiday Bowl....etc etc. We don't play for this okay folks. We're playing for a chip so no matter where we lie in the PRs it's all about the Post-Season and nothing more.

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:He's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. Rightly or wrongly, if that continues, he will definitely get MVP consideration. I've never disputed that. The MVP voting is usually distributed simply among the top scorers on each of the 3 or 5 top teams in the league.

He's not on the list because he's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. He's there because he's the best player on a team doing very well.

Clippers have Jamal Crawford and Blake Griffin who are scoring more points than Chris Paul, but Paul is the one in the MVP race.

The sooner you understand that its about the impact guys have rather than points, the better.

Great point.

Rudy Gay is the leading scorer of Memphis, but Zach Randolph will probably get some MVP votes thrown his way for his consistent play.

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:He's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. Rightly or wrongly, if that continues, he will definitely get MVP consideration. I've never disputed that. The MVP voting is usually distributed simply among the top scorers on each of the 3 or 5 top teams in the league.

He's not on the list because he's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. He's there because he's the best player on a team doing very well.

Clippers have Jamal Crawford and Blake Griffin who are scoring more points than Chris Paul, but Paul is the one in the MVP race.

The sooner you understand that its about the impact guys have rather than points, the better.

oh, we understand that.. but it is a combination of things, because if we talk impact with the knicks, then jason kidd has to be in the mix then...

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

tkf wrote:

Anji wrote:How many base writers do you think vote for the NBA Mvp award???

If the knicks have one of the best record in the league Melo will be considered heavily, that's all the thread is about.

TS, BS, OBP, OPP, be damned.

WHAT IS considered heavily? you either get votes or you don't.. what some of us are saying is that this applies for a lot of other guys as well.... and honestly at this point, it is a two horse race.... every year a number of guys are considered heavily and don't get votes... just trying to figure out after 4 games how was this thread worthy?

It doesn't apply to a lot of guys.

It applies to about 10 players out of the 300+ players in the league.

It's a pretty special group.

it does apply, because any player who is doing well on a team that is doing well can and will be considered.. that applies to all.. now at the end of the season, we know not every player does well and every team does well... but the rule applies to all... and for the record.. go look at the MVP voting... about 17 guys get some sort of votes.. the problem is, you need first place votes to win, and those votes usually go to the top 2 guys... leaving about 15-20 guys with absolutely no chance to win.... not really that special.... it is nice to say you were among 20 other guys who may have gotten some points but not special bro.....

Name all 20 of your candidates.

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

tkf wrote:

Anji wrote:How many base writers do you think vote for the NBA Mvp award???

If the knicks have one of the best record in the league Melo will be considered heavily, that's all the thread is about.

TS, BS, OBP, OPP, be damned.

WHAT IS considered heavily? you either get votes or you don't.. what some of us are saying is that this applies for a lot of other guys as well.... and honestly at this point, it is a two horse race.... every year a number of guys are considered heavily and don't get votes... just trying to figure out after 4 games how was this thread worthy?

It doesn't apply to a lot of guys.

It applies to about 10 players out of the 300+ players in the league.

It's a pretty special group.

it does apply, because any player who is doing well on a team that is doing well can and will be considered.. that applies to all.. now at the end of the season, we know not every player does well and every team does well... but the rule applies to all... and for the record.. go look at the MVP voting... about 17 guys get some sort of votes.. the problem is, you need first place votes to win, and those votes usually go to the top 2 guys... leaving about 15-20 guys with absolutely no chance to win.... not really that special.... it is nice to say you were among 20 other guys who may have gotten some points but not special bro.....

Name all 20 of your candidates.

that is the POINT!!!!!! how do we have any candidates at all after 12 games!!! after 4 games!! guys will emerge, guys will break out, teams will go on streaks!!! all I know now is that the two best players in the league, lebron and durant, are pretty much going to be favored, their teams most likely will have a top record and they usually are the best producers.. outside of that the list can be all over the place!!

see me at all star break then I will name you 20 guys, that will get consideration for finishing 3-20, right along with carmelo...

Whether you name 20 guys name now, or 20 guys after the all star break:

The point is half of them will not be eligible, because they won't be on winning teams.

20 players is 2/3 of the league (provided each team has 1 candidate). Therefore, you're saying 2/3 of the league will finish with very strong records (which is the #1 prerequisite for the award).

I mathemathatically proved your point is not valid.