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O.T Imus call Rutgers womens team NAPPY HEADED HOES
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simrud
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4/15/2007  9:18 PM
Misterearl, I'm familiar with Ayann Hirsi Ali, she is a great hero in my book. She was forced out of the Dutch government by men who were most likely paid off by the Muslims. I don't know if she has already come to US, but she is supposed to join a conservative think tank.

People accuse her of lying about many things, but the only thing she has lied about is her origins in order to get a refugee status and get into Holland. She worked with that Van Gogh fellow who got stabbed by a Muslim radical for doing art that exposed Muslim mistreatment of women.

I'm curious in what light you are brining her up, as somebody who has interesting things to say or as somebody who is as bas as Sharpton and Jackson?

Oh, and media wise, I'm aware that big names get the news, but its one thing when a big name is on the news and another thing when people actually turn to that big name as if he was some kind of respectable authority. Don Imus is on the news, but who really respects what he says? Al Sharpton on the other hand has people listening to him and taking him into account, despite him actually being a far worse person in general.


[Edited by - simrud on 04-15-2007 9:19 PM]
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
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misterearl
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4/15/2007  10:59 PM
Simrud - I don't know many people who depend on Al Shrpton as their political compass. Al Sharpton is the best FOX News can do to garner ratings and to provide a foil for their "baiting-the-guest-to-show-how-smart-WE-are" schtick.

Last I checked 20,000 people DID show up on Fiday to hear Obama speak at Georgia Tech though.

Just for the record, Obama denounced Imus as well, as any thinking person would.



[Edited by - misterearl on 04-15-2007 11:00 PM]
once a knick always a knick
4949
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4/15/2007  11:46 PM
My only hope is that the situation will be used as a platform for both races to to work together on what is permissible and appropriate in mainstream venues. Not that I'm so PC, but I'm also not the one who feels so aggrieved.

According to you, we'll just fire all of them to make things right. For a minute there, I thought you were talking about an uprising of black power? Like I said, it just creates fear and then more division. But then again, do you think it's fair to say that 'what do you know about being at the table'?

And why is this on the Knicks board?
I'll never trust this' team again.
BlueSeats
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4/16/2007  12:31 AM
Posted by 4949:
My only hope is that the situation will be used as a platform for both races to to work together on what is permissible and appropriate in mainstream venues. Not that I'm so PC, but I'm also not the one who feels so aggrieved.

According to you, we'll just fire all of them to make things right. For a minute there, I thought you were talking about an uprising of black power? Like I said, it just creates fear and then more division. But then again, do you think it's fair to say that 'what do you know about being at the table'?

And why is this on the Knicks board?


What?
4949
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4/16/2007  12:45 AM
What?
I'll never trust this' team again.
Killa4luv
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4/16/2007  1:00 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:

Killa, I can't speak for anyone else, but my own view on the subject has not been that rap creates or contributes to racism, but that the casual use of derogatory language in black popular culture lends an air of permissiveness, and triviality, that confuses the intent of the use when someone outside the culture uses it.

40 years ago when a white radio host used racial slurs you could be near 100% sure he meant it. But nowadays, in the shock-jock, post Richard Prior era, you can't have the certainty you used to.

Do you agree or disagree, and why?
You are only confused on Don Imus' intent because you are white. In fact, only white people are splitting hairs about whether Don Imus is a racist or not. Mel Gibson said the Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world. Can he say that and somehow not be anti-semetic? Can Michael Richards have said what he said and not be a racist? Only to white people. The only white people in America who think they are racists are Nazi's and other radical white supremecists. Other white folks want to bring up the fact that they tutor blind kids, and donate money to charity as proof that they are good people, and therefore couldn't be racist. In spite of any number of racist things they do.

Your point is taken about the impact of language in black popular culture. However, Don Imus isn't a memeber of the hip hop generation, hes not a young white kid who identifies with Hip Hop or black popular culture in any way. When he says the things he says he says them as an outsider to the culture. He ought to know that, and you ought to know it as well. The argument that its okay because black entertainers do it is not acceptable.

This is about context. I smack my wife on the ass when she passes me by does that mean you should do it?
I call my wife sweet stuff, does that mean you should do it? Context.



islesfan
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4/16/2007  1:14 PM
Your point is taken about the impact of language in black popular culture. However, Don Imus isn't a memeber of the hip hop generation, hes not a young white kid who identifies with Hip Hop or black popular culture in any way. When he says the things he says he says them as an outsider to the culture. He ought to know that, and you ought to know it as well. The argument that its okay because black entertainers do it is not acceptable.

I don't understand. So is it ok for that "young white kid who identifies with Hip Hop or black popular culture" to use those words?

Is it ok for your brother or cousin to smack your wife in the ass and call her sweet stuff?

When people of other races and cultures see those kinds of words used by people of one race towards each other with such abandon, it desensitizes them to the power of those words.

It shouldn't be okay if white OR black entertainers do it.

There should be no double standard.

[Edited by - islesfan on 04-16-2007 1:15 PM]
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
playa2
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4/16/2007  1:36 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/default.cdnx/id/9899088/displaymode/1157

anyone who made a comment on this thread should watch this
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
martin
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4/16/2007  2:11 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by BlueSeats:

Killa, I can't speak for anyone else, but my own view on the subject has not been that rap creates or contributes to racism, but that the casual use of derogatory language in black popular culture lends an air of permissiveness, and triviality, that confuses the intent of the use when someone outside the culture uses it.

40 years ago when a white radio host used racial slurs you could be near 100% sure he meant it. But nowadays, in the shock-jock, post Richard Prior era, you can't have the certainty you used to.

Do you agree or disagree, and why?
You are only confused on Don Imus' intent because you are white. In fact, only white people are splitting hairs about whether Don Imus is a racist or not. Mel Gibson said the Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world. Can he say that and somehow not be anti-semetic? Can Michael Richards have said what he said and not be a racist? Only to white people. The only white people in America who think they are racists are Nazi's and other radical white supremecists. Other white folks want to bring up the fact that they tutor blind kids, and donate money to charity as proof that they are good people, and therefore couldn't be racist. In spite of any number of racist things they do.

Your point is taken about the impact of language in black popular culture. However, Don Imus isn't a memeber of the hip hop generation, hes not a young white kid who identifies with Hip Hop or black popular culture in any way. When he says the things he says he says them as an outsider to the culture. He ought to know that, and you ought to know it as well. The argument that its okay because black entertainers do it is not acceptable.

This is about context. I smack my wife on the ass when she passes me by does that mean you should do it?
I call my wife sweet stuff, does that mean you should do it? Context.

I think you missed the whole point of what Blue was saying. Not once did he say what Imus did was OK.
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BlueSeats
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4/16/2007  2:15 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by BlueSeats:

Killa, I can't speak for anyone else, but my own view on the subject has not been that rap creates or contributes to racism, but that the casual use of derogatory language in black popular culture lends an air of permissiveness, and triviality, that confuses the intent of the use when someone outside the culture uses it.

40 years ago when a white radio host used racial slurs you could be near 100% sure he meant it. But nowadays, in the shock-jock, post Richard Prior era, you can't have the certainty you used to.

Do you agree or disagree, and why?
You are only confused on Don Imus' intent because you are white. In fact, only white people are splitting hairs about whether Don Imus is a racist or not. Mel Gibson said the Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world. Can he say that and somehow not be anti-semetic? Can Michael Richards have said what he said and not be a racist? Only to white people. The only white people in America who think they are racists are Nazi's and other radical white supremecists. Other white folks want to bring up the fact that they tutor blind kids, and donate money to charity as proof that they are good people, and therefore couldn't be racist. In spite of any number of racist things they do.

Your point is taken about the impact of language in black popular culture. However, Don Imus isn't a memeber of the hip hop generation, hes not a young white kid who identifies with Hip Hop or black popular culture in any way. When he says the things he says he says them as an outsider to the culture. He ought to know that, and you ought to know it as well. The argument that its okay because black entertainers do it is not acceptable.

This is about context. I smack my wife on the ass when she passes me by does that mean you should do it?
I call my wife sweet stuff, does that mean you should do it? Context.


Killa, I'm not certain we disagree to the extent you think we do. I'm not saying that Imus isn't racist. I don't what's in his heart. I simply don't think one can make the enormous assumption that someone who attempts to be funny through racial slurring or stereotyping surely is, beyond doubt, racist.

Michael Richards and Mel Gibson were different cases because theirs were angry tirades that clearly came from the heart, whereas Imus was doing his daily schtick.

Before Richard Prior and company made it funny I think you had better odds with those assumptions, but nowadays some people do it just to be "in" comedically speaking. Did Imus do it poorly and unfunnily, adding to the hurt? And is his history suspect? Sure. Am I sorry he was fired? No.

Cleaning up the language will not make racism go away, but it might prevent a lot of hurtful occasions, such as this one. If we're not willing to clean up the language we can't be shocked when accidents happen.

It's kinda like highway speed limits. We know deaths will go down if we reduce our speed limits but we're content to take the extra casualties if we get to go faster. Highway speed limits are actually on the rise. Doesn't mean we don't value life, just gotta look at the big picture.
Pharzeone
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4/16/2007  2:19 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Your point is taken about the impact of language in black popular culture. However, Don Imus isn't a memeber of the hip hop generation, hes not a young white kid who identifies with Hip Hop or black popular culture in any way. When he says the things he says he says them as an outsider to the culture. He ought to know that, and you ought to know it as well. The argument that its okay because black entertainers do it is not acceptable.

I don't understand. So is it ok for that "young white kid who identifies with Hip Hop or black popular culture" to use those words?

Is it ok for your brother or cousin to smack your wife in the ass and call her sweet stuff?

When people of other races and cultures see those kinds of words used by people of one race towards each other with such abandon, it desensitizes them to the power of those words.

It shouldn't be okay if white OR black entertainers do it.

There should be no double standard.

[Edited by - islesfan on 04-16-2007 1:15 PM]

I remember a couple of years ago when the movie 'Rising Sun' came out and there were Japanese protestors in nearly every major city with a Japanese community. At the time I was a teenager and could not understand the issue. I thought the movie was to be based on martial arts and had Japanese actors in it. So what was the big deal. Then I remember Well nevertheless, I didn't go to the movie because I didn't want to support something viewed as racist by any group (very political active in HS). While in college I had to write a term paper in one of my ethics courses regarding tolerance in the market place and I decided to write about the controvery surrounding the Rising Sun. Turns out that items that I did not take as offensive were indeed viewed as offensive to others in this case Asian Americans.
Sometimes it is not about what someone views to be a double standard. People make jokes about themselves and their love ones. I mean that is a way of life. You can get away saying things about your family that someone who isn't can't. Not a new concept.

Anyone not familiar with the controversy relating to the "Rising Sun". I posted a link and a great article about


http://www.ejumpcut.org/archive/onlinessays/JC40folder/AokiOnRisingSun.html

And a link to Guy Aoki, an Asian American Activist (He spoke at SJU a number of years ago where I had opportunity to meet him).

BTW, Sarah Silverman was involved in a similar controversy a few years back and Aoki confronted her on Politically Incorrect. The more things change the more they stay the same.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Aoki
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BlueSeats
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4/16/2007  2:29 PM
Posted by 4949:
My only hope is that the situation will be used as a platform for both races to to work together on what is permissible and appropriate in mainstream venues. Not that I'm so PC, but I'm also not the one who feels so aggrieved.

According to you, we'll just fire all of them to make things right. For a minute there, I thought you were talking about an uprising of black power? Like I said, it just creates fear and then more division. But then again, do you think it's fair to say that 'what do you know about being at the table'?

And why is this on the Knicks board?

Correct me if I'm wrong but you come into this thread when it's 21 pages long,and tens of thousands of lines have been written, and these are the two sentences you find unsettling or worthy of inspection? Pray tell, why?

Furthermore, nowhere did I say anyone should or should not be fired. Lastly, what does my not sitting at the table have to do with anything, I was speaking about the minorities who hold board positions or are invited into the boardrooms for major policy decisions.

In short, I have no idea what your problem, question, position or concern is with regard to these two lines, and I think it's a long shot that anyone else does either.
Allanfan20
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4/16/2007  2:32 PM
Pharzeone, I understand your point of view 100%, but phrases such as nigga were invented by white people to degrade blacks, unhumanize blacks and to be derogatory, and the phrase also represents the slavery and segregation black people went through. Now I'm not black, so I can definitely say I don't understand the pain that the black race has endured, ESPECIALLY in the southern states, but if I were, I wouldn't want to bring phrases like that back, especially in a time when people get so sensitive to racism. Wouldn't you want to be leaders and set an example?

Also, pharzeone (What does that name mean btw? Just curious.) while I agree that there are some jokes you can use to tease your family with that only you and your family members should use, the racism thing is by far different, just b/c not every black person is related to eachother, as it is with every race. Plenty of black people get offended by nigga. Also, personally, I rarely see white people calling eachother crackers, and Asians calling eachother chinks and so and so. Again, I say, why not set the example, because no matter how much black people like or dislike it, as long as black are calling eachother nigga like it's the number 1 word in the dictionary, the people of other races are going to use it, no matter what, whether you like it or not. If you put an end to it, then everyone else will, however, it will not end all racism, b/c it will always exist.

[Edited by - Allanfan20 on 16-04-2007 2:34 PM]
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Allanfan20
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4/16/2007  2:46 PM
PS: Al Sharpton is an idiot. He's always playing "Black people are the victim" bla bla bla and accusing whites of being racists in these crimes, yet he himself is racist towards whites. I have no clue why he has the power he does. I listened to a guy in my American History class today, and he knew Sean Bell, and said Sharpton completely ruined his funeral.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Pharzeone
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4/16/2007  2:52 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

PS: Al Sharpton is an idiot. He's always playing "Black people are the victim" bla bla bla and accusing whites of being racists in these crimes, yet he himself is racist towards whites. I have no clue why he has the power he does. I listened to a guy in my American History class today, and he knew Sean Bell, and said Sharpton completely ruined his funeral.

Allanfan, I could agree with what you say about Sharpton but by the same account it appears that you have the same feeling towards blacks. "Black people are the victim" is very evident of it. I am not saying you are or not but perception is sometimes the only thing you can go on.

P.S.
btw means by the way.
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Allanfan20
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4/16/2007  4:25 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Allanfan20:

PS: Al Sharpton is an idiot. He's always playing "Black people are the victim" bla bla bla and accusing whites of being racists in these crimes, yet he himself is racist towards whites. I have no clue why he has the power he does. I listened to a guy in my American History class today, and he knew Sean Bell, and said Sharpton completely ruined his funeral.

Allanfan, I could agree with what you say about Sharpton but by the same account it appears that you have the same feeling towards blacks. "Black people are the victim" is very evident of it. I am not saying you are or not but perception is sometimes the only thing you can go on.

P.S.
btw means by the way.

Pharzeone. Not at all. I personally think nobody is a victim and I honestly can't stand any type of racist, whether it's white against black, black against white or Asian against Hispanic. I believe it's all pure ignorance, and to me, in the Imus case, there is no victim. He said what he said. Something offensive, but it affected nobody but Imus himself. He made his own bed though, and he has to sleep in it. Sharpton should shut up. People defending Imus should put it to rest, because he had this coming for a long time, and people who are outraged by the comments should put it to rest, because I just don't see the huge deal. He got fired. What more do you want?

As for Imus, I think black people and women should take Imus's comments with a grain of salt because he's an idiot and probably should have been fired long ago. I really don't understand why people say he's created such an impact with these comments? Why? Cause he said something offensive that a million other people have said over the radio? To me, I just don't think it's anything new, and while I think he shouldn't even be on the radio, I just don't see what the big uproar is for. Whatever happened to just ignoring him? Not listening to that crap? Poor ratings will get him fired too!
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
misterearl
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4/16/2007  8:38 PM
Allanfan - taking Imus' comments with a "grain of salt" (whatever that means) does not excuse his deliberate ignorance.

Then again, the celebrated I-Man is not an ignorant person, so one must assume the disparaging remarks against the ugly Rutgers women, (ie that ugly nappy hair) compared with all things beautiful and straight-haired, were intentional.

forget Al Sharpton for a moment... there are many other choices available.

I case you haven't noticed, Barak Obama has center stage.

[Edited by - misterearl on 04-16-2007 9:01 PM]
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Allanfan20
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4/16/2007  11:21 PM
Barak = competant. Sharpton is a joke. I never excused Imus for his comments. An example needs to be made that his crap was unacceptable so that others can realize that racist comments wont be tolerated on the radio, but at the same time, it just wont do anything to fix it. There will always be racism.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Killa4luv
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4/17/2007  12:13 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Your point is taken about the impact of language in black popular culture. However, Don Imus isn't a memeber of the hip hop generation, hes not a young white kid who identifies with Hip Hop or black popular culture in any way. When he says the things he says he says them as an outsider to the culture. He ought to know that, and you ought to know it as well. The argument that its okay because black entertainers do it is not acceptable.

I don't understand. So is it ok for that "young white kid who identifies with Hip Hop or black popular culture" to use those words?

Is it ok for your brother or cousin to smack your wife in the ass and call her sweet stuff?

When people of other races and cultures see those kinds of words used by people of one race towards each other with such abandon, it desensitizes them to the power of those words.

It shouldn't be okay if white OR black entertainers do it.

There should be no double standard.
doesn't make it okay, but it makes it more forgivable. If someone is visiting my house and sees me call my wife 'boo' all the time, it aand then calls her boo, its somewhat understandable. Their in my house all the time. This 'rappers do it so why cant we' argument appears to be the same thing as what I'm saying but its not. Don Imus is not apart of Hip Hop culture. He probably does not know the words to one rap song. He knows or has heard about rappers using the N word or calling women ho's and what not. It is not apart of his everyday reality. He knows about that, the way I know about the violence in fallujah, he's hearing about it. For him or any non-black person to use that terminology is inappropriate. Its bad when black people do it, its worse when non-blacks do it.Thats my position. There is an entire history to why that type of language is even used in the first place, but I wont waste my time explaining it, because no one seems to want to deal with historical context here. The world was just invented when gangster rappers started degrading their race and communities.

Since when did the whole world start taking their cue on acceptable beavior from rappers? Old white men are using rappers as their role models now? Rappers do not represent the whole of black people in this country. In fact, more often than not, rappers represent the basest, most repugnant aspects that the black community has to offer, so no I do not think it is ok for anyone to emulate their behavior, especially not some old white man who ought to know better. These rappers represent a dysfunction within the black community, a dysfunction that is promoted by mostly white owners, and that is purchased by mostly white teens. Those are facts and they illustrate one very small aspect of the complexity of the problem.

The Black community has problems that it needs to iron out, progress is made on one end, while there are setbacks on the other. I do not see anyone making these kinds of broad generalizations about other groups of people based on their lowest common denominator. If Imus, you or any other non-black person wants to take cues from blacks about acceptable black behavior, start with Cornell West, or Oprah winfrey not some rapper or comedian who never graduated the 8th grade.

Killa4luv
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4/17/2007  12:30 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

PS: Al Sharpton is an idiot. He's always playing "Black people are the victim" bla bla bla and accusing whites of being racists in these crimes, yet he himself is racist towards whites. I have no clue why he has the power he does. I listened to a guy in my American History class today, and he knew Sean Bell, and said Sharpton completely ruined his funeral.

I dont recall him saying black people are the victim? Care to prove that point? Seems to me you are reading things into his comments. I also didnt hear him accuse anyone of being racist. He spoke out against racist language, which he has done on NUMEROUS occasions involving rap music, it just doesnt get the media attention, because its not a black/white thing, and wont sell papers.
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