holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Durant can't carry a team by himself in a conf. semi. Maybe only Lebron can in this era.

I think since much of this talk alludes as a measuring for Melo then we can conclude its about chemistry.

Chicago went far with awful injuries.

give Miami credit, they have won 45 of the last 48 games. They have no peer at this point.

One more time, 45 of 48 and includes two rounds of playoffs. Imagine a season start where you look in the standings and see:

wins Loss %
45 3 93.75

Yet, Wade is beat up, Bosh is "Pussy" and the rest of the team "sucks', Yet the record tells a story: Chemistry!

Is it sacrifice? Is it maturity? Coaching? Culture?

Or all the above?

We can "Blame" Melo, or Woodson, or Dolan but its not what we have, its what we lack and its a vision to win.

In retrospect if we lose tonite its not an object failure but a disspointment. The team was build to "win now" but if history tells us anything MSG with Dolan as the helm is run like an entertainment company and its stock has tripled in the last 3 years. The building is being renovated in the face of competition as was the knicks. The team was succesful in maintaining its fan base as the buzz died down in BKN and the knicks were able to finish ahead of them on the court. This is where fans count.

To me both teams "Won" as BKN had a successful season at the gate and made a big splash in its rebranding. If knicks were bad it would have been damaging. Businsess side both teams did very well.

I am suspicious that we cashed in a bit of future to pull this off. We gave up a very good prospect in Europe for Felton. Sure it was worth it this season, but he might have been a good asset going forward. Nets are stashing euro's and looking head while they have a pretty good team now.

Nalod enjoyed this season and think on the court it was fun and the team did well. I think it was a starphuch and a price will be paid which might not be a dramatic celler dweller existance but building a base for a long sustainable run does not seel like what is going on.

Miami is still golden for at least another year or as long as the Big three are reasonably healthy and lebron don't go back to cleveland.

Indy and Chicago seem like up and coming teams. Brooklyn is "interesting" with a core of three All-star caliber players and a bench I can't figure out. ATL made the playoffs and is shopping for a new coach. They are sort of in rebuilding mode despite. Boston with its aging core looks to enter a transition mode.

New CBA makes it easier for teams to retool but for now Miami has its Core. The next wave of teams could be like "Indy" and "Chicago" which stress chemistry and role players over stars. Stars eat cap space. Maybe its back to the era where you have to draft or grow your own stars because trading for them, and at the same time the cap space needed is a double edged sword. I know it was not possible but imagine a healthy AMare and Melo comes as a free agent. Not that we keep Gallo/Wilson/Etc but its obvious they could have been traded for other pieces that could have completed a great team. Im not lamenting, but its How Miami was able to do it.

Going forward in the internet era playing in NY is not as advantagious as it once was thought.

Nothing wrong with Melo other than the expectation he can carry the team to the finals.

Nobody but Lebron can.

thats true nalod, but i will also add, Derek rose is a STar, and paul George plays as well as any star in the league... zach and Gasol in memphis are not stars, but is there a better front line in the league?

Great teams win, and it takes special players, not necessarily stars to make up " great teams"...

Or it could be that old school basketball wins over the new school game...Maybe having a center and a forward who can post still thumps everything else...PG centric offense where one guy dominates the ball is only a fad...Defense still wins rings...

I don't like any offense where one player dominates the ball, be it a PG or a SF, especially a SF.. now I can make exceptions for the PG especially in the case of guys like Nash and chris paul... but having a balanced team is key, so yes, having a center who can play like a center, a forward who can play like a forward helps....

Being fair, we really never have seen a large sample of our front line.

My feeling is Melo can take you to the playoffs and that sells seats. Melo and a "right in the head" JR is what drove us this year. Is it that sustainable?

Core:

Melo
JR
Felton
Chandler
Amare

Maybe Shump off the bench becomes the energy 6th man. You can close with a small line up and sit chandler on the bench.

Is it championship quality? There is a longer road that has to be taken before that becomes a conversation.

AnubisADL wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Kenny, Chuck, Shaq and Ernie were actually discussing this last night after the MEM win. Kenny posed the question since this is a copy cat league...Do the league now try to get 2 dominant big men to man the 4 and 5 ala MEM?

Nope. If Westbrook was healthy Memphis would be getting spanked.

Not so..Memphis beat SA last year with this same squad and maybe lessor with Gay gone...Took OKC to seven games with Harden...Tis according to Brevin Knight in an ESPN interview ...

holfresh wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Kenny, Chuck, Shaq and Ernie were actually discussing this last night after the MEM win. Kenny posed the question since this is a copy cat league...Do the league now try to get 2 dominant big men to man the 4 and 5 ala MEM?

Nope. If Westbrook was healthy Memphis would be getting spanked.

Not so..Memphis beat SA last year with this same squad and maybe lessor with Gay gone...Took OKC to seven games with Harden...Tis according to Brevin Knight in an ESPN interview ...

Two years ago, you mean. Otherwise, yes, I agree. Memphis is underestimated. Like Indiana and Chicago (to an extent), they don't have a lot of sexy names, but they play really well as a team.

Solace wrote:Best line of the night last night. I was watching Memphis-OKC when my girlfriend came over. She goes, "What is MEM?" "Memphis". "What is OKC?" "Oklahoma City" Her: "Is this a college game?" LOL. "No, did you see the NBA logo there?" "Yes." "It's an NBA game." "Ahh... I never heard of these teams."

Former doormats now solid franchises!

These runs is what makes for a solid fan base. Moments of glory and memories! They can support a team. Its what rallied fans to keep the Kings in SAC! Local owenership also is the key.

Sonics had no local oweners step up which is why OKC was able to hijack the team. NBA screwed that up.

Former owner of Grizz did good to trade Pau and restructure the team and sold it last year so a Tech billionaire. They hired Hollinger last year and this dude likley was behind the Rudy trade to some extent.

Nalod wrote:

Solace wrote:Best line of the night last night. I was watching Memphis-OKC when my girlfriend came over. She goes, "What is MEM?" "Memphis". "What is OKC?" "Oklahoma City" Her: "Is this a college game?" LOL. "No, did you see the NBA logo there?" "Yes." "It's an NBA game." "Ahh... I never heard of these teams."

Former doormats now solid franchises!

These runs is what makes for a solid fan base. Moments of glory and memories! They can support a team. Its what rallied fans to keep the Kings in SAC! Local owenership also is the key.

Sonics had no local oweners step up which is why OKC was able to hijack the team. NBA screwed that up.

Former owner of Grizz did good to trade Pau and restructure the team and sold it last year so a Tech billionaire. They hired Hollinger last year and this dude likley was behind the Rudy trade to some extent.

Yep. It's craziness. But it's good for the NBA to have some balance, I suppose. The era of superteams is basically over, so it will be interesting from here. Smart spending will reign supreme. The smaller market teams are already good at this, by necessity. Which is why the Knicks will not get another championship for a long time...

yellowboy90 wrote:I didn't like Durant shot selection at all the past few games and 7 tos is crazy.

To his defense, nobody wanted to take the shot but him. It seemed everybody was running away from the ball.

Solace wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Solace wrote:Best line of the night last night. I was watching Memphis-OKC when my girlfriend came over. She goes, "What is MEM?" "Memphis". "What is OKC?" "Oklahoma City" Her: "Is this a college game?" LOL. "No, did you see the NBA logo there?" "Yes." "It's an NBA game." "Ahh... I never heard of these teams."

Former doormats now solid franchises!

These runs is what makes for a solid fan base. Moments of glory and memories! They can support a team. Its what rallied fans to keep the Kings in SAC! Local owenership also is the key.

Sonics had no local oweners step up which is why OKC was able to hijack the team. NBA screwed that up.

Former owner of Grizz did good to trade Pau and restructure the team and sold it last year so a Tech billionaire. They hired Hollinger last year and this dude likley was behind the Rudy trade to some extent.

Yep. It's craziness. But it's good for the NBA to have some balance, I suppose. The era of superteams is basically over, so it will be interesting from here. Smart spending will reign supreme. The smaller market teams are already good at this, by necessity. Which is why the Knicks will not get another championship for a long time...

NBA is going like the NFL which will speed up rebuilds but might prevent dynasty's. Durant is a superstar (media wise) in a hick cowboy city! Lebron was a global icon out of cleveland.

The model Sonics took is similar to (because they hired Presti) to what SAS did. While drafting duncan was a bit of luck, imagine if they instead while trying to build a team around David robinson instead traded what they figured would be a low pick, but when Robinson went out instead ending up tanking and getting Ducan? Some teams trade picks, others don't.

What if Sonics instead traded their picks a a few years before but instead did not draft Durant? Sure they got lucky when Portand whiffed.

Key is keep the picks. IN the new era this matters.

I repeat, Nets are interesting as they are a playoff team now, have a core, have all their picks going forward, and stashed Euro's.

IF we can't buy our way out or succeed with old vets we going to have problems going forward.

Knicks won the battle this year in NYC but can they win the war? Knicks have the money but really can't spend too much.

Im not sure too many 2nd round picks will be available for sale if most teams try to grab Euro's to cultivate. Getting a Landry Fields type, a Parsons type, in the second round can add up!

Manu was the 57th pick in his draft. Parker was not a high pick, nor was Kwai Leonard or SPlitter.

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Durant can't carry a team by himself in a conf. semi. Maybe only Lebron can in this era.

I think since much of this talk alludes as a measuring for Melo then we can conclude its about chemistry.

Chicago went far with awful injuries.

give Miami credit, they have won 45 of the last 48 games. They have no peer at this point.

One more time, 45 of 48 and includes two rounds of playoffs. Imagine a season start where you look in the standings and see:

wins Loss %
45 3 93.75

Yet, Wade is beat up, Bosh is "Pussy" and the rest of the team "sucks', Yet the record tells a story: Chemistry!

Is it sacrifice? Is it maturity? Coaching? Culture?

Or all the above?

We can "Blame" Melo, or Woodson, or Dolan but its not what we have, its what we lack and its a vision to win.

In retrospect if we lose tonite its not an object failure but a disspointment. The team was build to "win now" but if history tells us anything MSG with Dolan as the helm is run like an entertainment company and its stock has tripled in the last 3 years. The building is being renovated in the face of competition as was the knicks. The team was succesful in maintaining its fan base as the buzz died down in BKN and the knicks were able to finish ahead of them on the court. This is where fans count.

To me both teams "Won" as BKN had a successful season at the gate and made a big splash in its rebranding. If knicks were bad it would have been damaging. Businsess side both teams did very well.

I am suspicious that we cashed in a bit of future to pull this off. We gave up a very good prospect in Europe for Felton. Sure it was worth it this season, but he might have been a good asset going forward. Nets are stashing euro's and looking head while they have a pretty good team now.

Nalod enjoyed this season and think on the court it was fun and the team did well. I think it was a starphuch and a price will be paid which might not be a dramatic celler dweller existance but building a base for a long sustainable run does not seel like what is going on.

Miami is still golden for at least another year or as long as the Big three are reasonably healthy and lebron don't go back to cleveland.

Indy and Chicago seem like up and coming teams. Brooklyn is "interesting" with a core of three All-star caliber players and a bench I can't figure out. ATL made the playoffs and is shopping for a new coach. They are sort of in rebuilding mode despite. Boston with its aging core looks to enter a transition mode.

New CBA makes it easier for teams to retool but for now Miami has its Core. The next wave of teams could be like "Indy" and "Chicago" which stress chemistry and role players over stars. Stars eat cap space. Maybe its back to the era where you have to draft or grow your own stars because trading for them, and at the same time the cap space needed is a double edged sword. I know it was not possible but imagine a healthy AMare and Melo comes as a free agent. Not that we keep Gallo/Wilson/Etc but its obvious they could have been traded for other pieces that could have completed a great team. Im not lamenting, but its How Miami was able to do it.

Going forward in the internet era playing in NY is not as advantagious as it once was thought.

Nothing wrong with Melo other than the expectation he can carry the team to the finals.

Nobody but Lebron can.

thats true nalod, but i will also add, Derek rose is a STar, and paul George plays as well as any star in the league... zach and Gasol in memphis are not stars, but is there a better front line in the league?

Great teams win, and it takes special players, not necessarily stars to make up " great teams"...

Or it could be that old school basketball wins over the new school game...Maybe having a center and a forward who can post still thumps everything else...PG centric offense where one guy dominates the ball is only a fad...Defense still wins rings...

I don't like any offense where one player dominates the ball, be it a PG or a SF, especially a SF.. now I can make exceptions for the PG especially in the case of guys like Nash and chris paul... but having a balanced team is key, so yes, having a center who can play like a center, a forward who can play like a forward helps....

Nash and Paul dominating the ball is ugly basketball too...I hated MDA style of play...When Bron dominates the ball for 15 sec and makes a quick pass for an assist, people say great..It's not pleasing to watch...Watching Bron play isn't like watching Magic play...I wouldn't say Magic dominated the ball...

Watching nash and paul with the ball is a thing of beauty, because we know they are not looking to shoot.. big difference..

Lebron isn't as fun to watch as magic.. not many were, but in the open court he and wade are as exciting as it gets...

CrushAlot wrote:

misterearl wrote:5-23

Did Kevin Durant's legacy start with that last game?

I didn't watch the game but he also had 7 turnovers. I think Greenberg said it best this morning on Mike and Mike, he said I would be killing LBJ or Melo if they put up that stat line. Is no one killing him because he is just so likeable? WTF is that. Durant had a couple games in Melo's shoes. Nothing against Durant but being the only one that at times has any hope of scoring is really hard and a tremendous burden.