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Carmelo Is Right, Andrea Bargnini Was a Steal
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Bonn1997
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8/13/2013  9:39 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:I recently stumbled upon NBA.com Shotcharts. I then decided to compare Carmelo, Lebron, and Durant.

Melo
http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=2546
James
http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=2544
Durant
http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=201142

Basically looking at the shot charts the only real eye popping difference seems to come from ability to finish around the rim.

Carmelo only averages 51.94% from in close, while Lebron averages, 72.12% and Durant averages 64.56%.

I subtracted the inside shots to see what there % were without it.

Carmelo shot 42.0% - Carmelo's inside shots only give him 3% raise rounded off
Lebron shot 42.4% - Lebron's inside shots give him a 14% raise rounded off
Durant shot 43.1% - Durant's inside shots give him a 8% raise rounded off

Only Midrange/no 3s or inside shots

Carmelo shot 268/601 44.5%
Lebron shot 199/458 43.4%
Durant shot 286/625 45.7%

The difference in scoring efficiency seems to come from Melo not being as good a finisher as Lebron and Durant. From midrange and 3pt shooting though he seems to be on par with them.


Good find. Melo is very good at getting to the basket but surprisingly poor at finishing.
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nixluva
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8/13/2013  9:44 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:I recently stumbled upon NBA.com Shotcharts. I then decided to compare Carmelo, Lebron, and Durant.

Melo
http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=2546
James
http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=2544
Durant
http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=201142

Basically looking at the shot charts the only real eye popping difference seems to come from ability to finish around the rim.

Carmelo only averages 51.94% from in close, while Lebron averages, 72.12% and Durant averages 64.56%.

I subtracted the inside shots to see what there % were without it.

Carmelo shot 42.0% - Carmelo's inside shots only give him 3% raise rounded off
Lebron shot 42.4% - Lebron's inside shots give him a 14% raise rounded off
Durant shot 43.1% - Durant's inside shots give him a 8% raise rounded off

Only Midrange/no 3s or inside shots

Carmelo shot 268/601 44.5%
Lebron shot 199/458 43.4%
Durant shot 286/625 45.7%

The difference in scoring efficiency seems to come from Melo not being as good a finisher as Lebron and Durant. From midrange and 3pt shooting though he seems to be on par with them.

The goal should be more transition opportunities. Unlike the two guys he barely gets any transition buckets. Most of that is on him. He does need to become a better finisher in the halfcourt too. I would love to see his numbers after he came back from the knee drain when it seemed like he was dunking more. His insistence on not Dunking like he used to probably doesn't help

Great find Newyorknewyork!!! I was searching for something like this. To try and make a point about how Bargnani can help the Knicks just look at the mid range shots AB takes in the area where he often runs his PnP>

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=200745

AB is killing it from the left and right elbow and FT line area. That's the PnP range that we've been talking about and there were those who said he wasn't going to be able to help but when you look at how strong he is from there you can see how that strength in his game can help. He was 50% from the left elbow, 57% from the right elbow and 47% in the FT area. This is the area where he most often takes his PnP mid range shots.

Look at the Mid range shots AB takes and makes in this video and you can see how his numbers are so strong from there:

This is what we've been talking about when we say that AB can help this team against teams like the Pacers who pack the paint and leave shooters open for mid range jumpers. AB and Beno will make those shots. It was an area of weakness last year and will be a strength this year.

Look at the PnP opportunities Beno and AB will likely have and how they basically live off those looks:

dk7th
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8/13/2013  10:16 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:I recently stumbled upon NBA.com Shotcharts. I then decided to compare Carmelo, Lebron, and Durant.

Melo
http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=2546
James
http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=2544
Durant
http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=201142

Basically looking at the shot charts the only real eye popping difference seems to come from ability to finish around the rim.

Carmelo only averages 51.94% from in close, while Lebron averages, 72.12% and Durant averages 64.56%.

I subtracted the inside shots to see what there % were without it.

Carmelo shot 42.0% - Carmelo's inside shots only give him 3% raise rounded off
Lebron shot 42.4% - Lebron's inside shots give him a 14% raise rounded off
Durant shot 43.1% - Durant's inside shots give him a 8% raise rounded off

Only Midrange/no 3s or inside shots

Carmelo shot 268/601 44.5%
Lebron shot 199/458 43.4%
Durant shot 286/625 45.7%

The difference in scoring efficiency seems to come from Melo not being as good a finisher as Lebron and Durant. From midrange and 3pt shooting though he seems to be on par with them.


Good find. Melo is very good at getting to the basket but surprisingly poor at finishing.

you know what's crazy is that his shot distribution is mostly from the left side going right where he is actually below average.

yet his best shooting is from the right side where he is shooting going to his left, where he is above average.

if i am woodson i work a pick and roll game for him on the right side. i remember that he would occasionally have two brush screens set for him from the right side and he made jumpers just as pretty as you please, going left without a defender to hound him.

looking at the charts he obviously is more effective in isolation going right so if he must do iso let him do it from that side until he can learn to dribble with his left hand. going iso from the left just doesn't work for him effectively enough, unless it's that little right baseline turnaround fadeaway.

his finishing at the rim is a whole other story... but as i have been maintaining for months and months the dude has to incorporate some ball and head fakes down low instead of committing to the air.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
StarksEwing1
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8/13/2013  10:35 PM
nixluva wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:I recently stumbled upon NBA.com Shotcharts. I then decided to compare Carmelo, Lebron, and Durant.

Melo
http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=2546
James
http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=2544
Durant
http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=201142

Basically looking at the shot charts the only real eye popping difference seems to come from ability to finish around the rim.

Carmelo only averages 51.94% from in close, while Lebron averages, 72.12% and Durant averages 64.56%.

I subtracted the inside shots to see what there % were without it.

Carmelo shot 42.0% - Carmelo's inside shots only give him 3% raise rounded off
Lebron shot 42.4% - Lebron's inside shots give him a 14% raise rounded off
Durant shot 43.1% - Durant's inside shots give him a 8% raise rounded off

Only Midrange/no 3s or inside shots

Carmelo shot 268/601 44.5%
Lebron shot 199/458 43.4%
Durant shot 286/625 45.7%

The difference in scoring efficiency seems to come from Melo not being as good a finisher as Lebron and Durant. From midrange and 3pt shooting though he seems to be on par with them.

The goal should be more transition opportunities. Unlike the two guys he barely gets any transition buckets. Most of that is on him. He does need to become a better finisher in the halfcourt too. I would love to see his numbers after he came back from the knee drain when it seemed like he was dunking more. His insistence on not Dunking like he used to probably doesn't help

Great find Newyorknewyork!!! I was searching for something like this. To try and make a point about how Bargnani can help the Knicks just look at the mid range shots AB takes in the area where he often runs his PnP>

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=200745

AB is killing it from the left and right elbow and FT line area. That's the PnP range that we've been talking about and there were those who said he wasn't going to be able to help but when you look at how strong he is from there you can see how that strength in his game can help. He was 50% from the left elbow, 57% from the right elbow and 47% in the FT area. This is the area where he most often takes his PnP mid range shots.

Look at the Mid range shots AB takes and makes in this video and you can see how his numbers are so strong from there:

This is what we've been talking about when we say that AB can help this team against teams like the Pacers who pack the paint and leave shooters open for mid range jumpers. AB and Beno will make those shots. It was an area of weakness last year and will be a strength this year.

Look at the PnP opportunities Beno and AB will likely have and how they basically live off those looks:


Im actually more excited to have beno.
nixluva
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8/13/2013  11:04 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:I recently stumbled upon NBA.com Shotcharts. I then decided to compare Carmelo, Lebron, and Durant.

Melo
http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=2546
James
http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=2544
Durant
http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=201142

Basically looking at the shot charts the only real eye popping difference seems to come from ability to finish around the rim.

Carmelo only averages 51.94% from in close, while Lebron averages, 72.12% and Durant averages 64.56%.

I subtracted the inside shots to see what there % were without it.

Carmelo shot 42.0% - Carmelo's inside shots only give him 3% raise rounded off
Lebron shot 42.4% - Lebron's inside shots give him a 14% raise rounded off
Durant shot 43.1% - Durant's inside shots give him a 8% raise rounded off

Only Midrange/no 3s or inside shots

Carmelo shot 268/601 44.5%
Lebron shot 199/458 43.4%
Durant shot 286/625 45.7%

The difference in scoring efficiency seems to come from Melo not being as good a finisher as Lebron and Durant. From midrange and 3pt shooting though he seems to be on par with them.

The goal should be more transition opportunities. Unlike the two guys he barely gets any transition buckets. Most of that is on him. He does need to become a better finisher in the halfcourt too. I would love to see his numbers after he came back from the knee drain when it seemed like he was dunking more. His insistence on not Dunking like he used to probably doesn't help

Great find Newyorknewyork!!! I was searching for something like this. To try and make a point about how Bargnani can help the Knicks just look at the mid range shots AB takes in the area where he often runs his PnP>

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=200745

AB is killing it from the left and right elbow and FT line area. That's the PnP range that we've been talking about and there were those who said he wasn't going to be able to help but when you look at how strong he is from there you can see how that strength in his game can help. He was 50% from the left elbow, 57% from the right elbow and 47% in the FT area. This is the area where he most often takes his PnP mid range shots.

Look at the Mid range shots AB takes and makes in this video and you can see how his numbers are so strong from there:

This is what we've been talking about when we say that AB can help this team against teams like the Pacers who pack the paint and leave shooters open for mid range jumpers. AB and Beno will make those shots. It was an area of weakness last year and will be a strength this year.

Look at the PnP opportunities Beno and AB will likely have and how they basically live off those looks:

Im actually more excited to have beno.

Well it makes sense to be excited about Beno as a PG with good court vision and a good PnR/PnP game. Just don't sell AB short in all of this cuz aside from last year AB was 15ppg-21ppg and he hasn't even maxed out his potential as a player yet. He's in his prime now and AB with Beno is a great tandem to have added to this team. Like I showed above look at his shooting from mid range off PnP. It's 50%+ which is far better than we had last year. Then you add the fact that AB can post and also hit the 3. How can anyone not see that adding that kind of scoring talent is gonna improve what this team can do? Who else in the starting lineup could help Melo to score like AB can? Do we want Felton as the only other guy taking shots in the SL? Now we have AB who is more versatile.

yellowboy90
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8/13/2013  11:14 PM
People are down on Bargs because of his rebounding and team D. It's about removing 1-2 misses from his offense that he had to take in Toronto to get his offense back up to par.
nixluva
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8/13/2013  11:48 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:People are down on Bargs because of his rebounding and team D. It's about removing 1-2 misses from his offense that he had to take in Toronto to get his offense back up to par.

I agree, but I think it's really shortsighted. This team didn't have anyone who could produce 50%+ from mid range last year. If teams are going to try to take away PnR and drives to the basket like the Pacers, then you have to be able to hit shots they leave open. Beno and AB can do that. They both have the skill of being able to knock down the Mid Range jumper. We'll still have the 3pt shooting and ISO plays, but we'll be adding good mid range, PnP offense too.

Woody is gonna be able to put AB in better scoring situations. AB won't have to carry the team and I think that's going to help him tremendously. If Woody can get AB to focus more on his defense and rebounding then he'll reach his full potential. He doesn't have to be the greatest rebounder or defender. He simply has to improve his effort on that end.

StarksEwing1
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8/14/2013  12:11 AM
nixluva wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:I recently stumbled upon NBA.com Shotcharts. I then decided to compare Carmelo, Lebron, and Durant.

Melo
http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=2546
James
http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=2544
Durant
http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=201142

Basically looking at the shot charts the only real eye popping difference seems to come from ability to finish around the rim.

Carmelo only averages 51.94% from in close, while Lebron averages, 72.12% and Durant averages 64.56%.

I subtracted the inside shots to see what there % were without it.

Carmelo shot 42.0% - Carmelo's inside shots only give him 3% raise rounded off
Lebron shot 42.4% - Lebron's inside shots give him a 14% raise rounded off
Durant shot 43.1% - Durant's inside shots give him a 8% raise rounded off

Only Midrange/no 3s or inside shots

Carmelo shot 268/601 44.5%
Lebron shot 199/458 43.4%
Durant shot 286/625 45.7%

The difference in scoring efficiency seems to come from Melo not being as good a finisher as Lebron and Durant. From midrange and 3pt shooting though he seems to be on par with them.

The goal should be more transition opportunities. Unlike the two guys he barely gets any transition buckets. Most of that is on him. He does need to become a better finisher in the halfcourt too. I would love to see his numbers after he came back from the knee drain when it seemed like he was dunking more. His insistence on not Dunking like he used to probably doesn't help

Great find Newyorknewyork!!! I was searching for something like this. To try and make a point about how Bargnani can help the Knicks just look at the mid range shots AB takes in the area where he often runs his PnP>

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=200745

AB is killing it from the left and right elbow and FT line area. That's the PnP range that we've been talking about and there were those who said he wasn't going to be able to help but when you look at how strong he is from there you can see how that strength in his game can help. He was 50% from the left elbow, 57% from the right elbow and 47% in the FT area. This is the area where he most often takes his PnP mid range shots.

Look at the Mid range shots AB takes and makes in this video and you can see how his numbers are so strong from there:

This is what we've been talking about when we say that AB can help this team against teams like the Pacers who pack the paint and leave shooters open for mid range jumpers. AB and Beno will make those shots. It was an area of weakness last year and will be a strength this year.

Look at the PnP opportunities Beno and AB will likely have and how they basically live off those looks:

Im actually more excited to have beno.

Well it makes sense to be excited about Beno as a PG with good court vision and a good PnR/PnP game. Just don't sell AB short in all of this cuz aside from last year AB was 15ppg-21ppg and he hasn't even maxed out his potential as a player yet. He's in his prime now and AB with Beno is a great tandem to have added to this team. Like I showed above look at his shooting from mid range off PnP. It's 50%+ which is far better than we had last year. Then you add the fact that AB can post and also hit the 3. How can anyone not see that adding that kind of scoring talent is gonna improve what this team can do? Who else in the starting lineup could help Melo to score like AB can? Do we want Felton as the only other guy taking shots in the SL? Now we have AB who is more versatile.

I have said many times that i hope Bargnani does turn out to be a steal. However i have tried to be as objective as possible. I still have to see him succeed in new york and stay healthy
nixluva
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8/14/2013  2:19 AM
AB is already a steal IMO. We gave up nothing in terms of players who weren't productive for us and picks we really won't miss in the least. The thing is that AB simply has to do what he does well and give an honest effort on the boards and D. This is what every Knick player is asked to do. In terms of injury that is no different for him than it is for any Knicks player. Just about every player on the team has had some kind of time missed due to injury. So why hold him out as special? You can start every players analysis with "they have to stay healthy"! We need to stop using that as a reason to be doubtful about AB.

You say you need to see him succeed and stay healthy, but really the guy just has to play BB. He's got A high skill level and as I said in 4 recent years he proved he can score between 15-21ppg. We need to stop talking about AB as if he's Amar'e. Dude got hurt on a contact play. It's not like he just pulled up lame. This is the play AB got injured on.

He doesn't fall on his arm awkwardly every day, so why should we be in fear of a repeat injury as if there's something wrong with him that no other BB player could have happen to them. ANYONE could get hurt on a contact play like that. We just need to stop talking about him like he's due to just break down for no reason. That's the Media's angle, but we don't have to buy into that crap. No player can guarantee to remain healthy. We just have to let him play.

jrodmc
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8/14/2013  7:56 AM
jrodmc wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:


See tkf on the job

I vote tkf should hereby be dubbed "Mr. 15%"

Oh and by the way, Bargs was a steal.

And Melo's always right.

And the pic is obviously belittling to tkf.

IronWillGiroud
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8/14/2013  10:16 AM
when bargs gets hot, you can ride him, that's the thing:

we just added another 30 point scorer: on any given night this guy can drop 30 on you,

you can have games this year where you might see something like:

bargs 31 points
melo 34
jr 32

and we win something like, 121-99 against the warriors,

i don't know if three guys have ever dropped 30 each in the same game, and if no one has done it then i know we have a good chance at being the first,

the 30 30 30 game

The Will, check out the Official Home of Will's GameDay Art: http://tinyurl.com/thewillgameday
jrodmc
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8/14/2013  10:20 AM
You see, there's one problem with that theory, IWG: In the real games, they only get to play with one ball at a time.

I think you're confusing morning shootarounds with the actual games.

IronWillGiroud
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8/14/2013  10:26 AM
this is an ideal case where they are unleashed and in rhythm,

hitting 55, 60% of field goals, all free throws almost,

making it rain from three,

it's possible for three guys to get hot from three, because they feed off the heat of the other guy

The Will, check out the Official Home of Will's GameDay Art: http://tinyurl.com/thewillgameday
IronWillGiroud
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8/14/2013  10:29 AM
you have a case now where melo can drop 5 threes, bargs drops 5, and jr drops 5,

that's 15 threes from three guys!!! that WILL happen this year, at least once!

you're shooting teams out of the building with this line up

The Will, check out the Official Home of Will's GameDay Art: http://tinyurl.com/thewillgameday
Nalod
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8/14/2013  10:29 AM
dk7th wrote:
Markji wrote:
dk7th wrote:
Markji wrote:
tkf wrote:
Markji wrote:
tkf wrote:
Markji wrote:TKF - the box is too big and I have to work. Just one point....your"but trying to play the "euros are better team players card" is a bit desperate, come on now." You dismiss a very important point without any validation. I feel u should at least accept it. Because how else did the US drream teams lose to Euro teams with players from just 1 country. Some didn't even have an NBA player while we had all-stars.

Facing increased competition, the USA failed to win a medal at the 2002 FIBA World Championship, finishing sixth. The 2004 Summer Olympic team lost three games on its way to a bronze medal, a record that represented more losses in a single year than the country's Olympic teams had suffered in all previous Olympiads combined.

Determined to put an end to these failures, USA Basketball initiated a long-term project aimed at creating better, more cohesive teams. The USA won its first seven games at the 2006 FIBA World Championship in Japan before losing against Greece in the semi-finals, ending the competition with the bronze medal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_men's_national_basketball_team

How the heck did we lose to Greece. How did we come in 6th in 2002? The Euro play solid basketball. They aren't as fast; not as athletic; can't jump as high; etc, but they are well coached and play a solid game of BB. This is just one point, not the main point to sway an argument; but it gives us a plus. And BTW, your comment about Kidd and Prigs last year - We played very well and better team ball when Kidd was able to play the first few months. After that he was physically finished.

You're too hyped up on "Iso" play. Every teeam has star players who take more shots than the others.

are you kidding me, are you going to use an exception to prove our point? how come we won gold in 2012? 2008? 2000? 1996? 1992? and the list goes on.. remember we started sending pro playes in what, the 90's? only when we don't send close to our best do we struggle.. the last time I remember losing gold was in 2004, and wasn't carmelo on that team? just asking.. anyway..

You're too hyped up on "Iso" play. Every teeam has star players who take more shots than the others.

actually I am not, I am hyped up against.. sure every team has star players who take more shots than others.... and usually the teams that win have star players that are efficient, so taking more of the shots is a good thing..

the problem.. we have a guy who thinks he is as star player and takes a lion share of the shots and is not that efficient at all...


OK - so to say it succinctly you don't like Melo's game when he forces his shot. He gets double-teamed a lot and should pass out of that to the open man. I get it. I agree with that.

However, we can provide Melo with a mismatch inside and then he is a better scorer. Perhaps Bargs will help spread the floor.And we have 3 point guards who can pass and run an offense. None are all-stars but all 3 are solid.

Re: US Olympic teams. - with our talent we should never have lost. It is only recently that the European players as a group, have improved talent-wise to have so many play in the NBA. But individual talent-wise, the US dominates.


I will say this, carmelo does not get double teamed that much, in the pacers series, paul george didn't have help, yet carmelo was guarded very well and did force up shots, and everytime he missed he seemed to run back holding his shoulder.. I was like, really dude? if your shoulder hurts, stop taking 30 shots?

I don't like his style, the way he plays, his selfishness, mindset, the way he approaches the game, his face!! nothing.. so yea, it pisses me off he is on this team, the guy sabotages this teams championship aspirations just by being on it... fools gold man.. I see right through it..


However, we can provide Melo with a mismatch inside and then he is a better scorer. Perhaps Bargs will help spread the floor.And we have 3 point guards who can pass and run an offense. None are all-stars but all 3 are solid.

Bargnani spreading the floor is just another overrated wishful attempt to spin the trade.. we had the best 3 point shooter in the league in novak.. wasn't that his job? when the pacers took that away, when the heat took that away, then novak was considered useless... what i suspect is that the pacers, bulls and heat will also chase three point shooters off the line... yea, yea, now you are going to tell me how great bargnani is at putting the ball on the floor.. right? well really he isn't.. if he is putting the ball on the floor, then how does that help the mismatch with carmelo as you put it? do you really want barngnani dribbling? how well did that work in toronto..

in the end, we got the wrong players, plain and simple.. can't fit square pegs in round holes...


So you don't like Melo or want him on the team. However, Melo is on the team and so we, and really Woody and Grunny have to figure out how to make it work with Mello. Give me 3 things you would implement. I know your first and second are still to trade Melo. So what is your third way to make the Knicks winners. By that I mean at least to the Eastern Conf Championship and preferably to the finals?

I do agree with you regarding Novak. I liked him for what he did which was to shoot 3 pointers. People got on him because he "only" shot 42.5% last year, down from 47% the yr before. But he was a role player and knew his role. 42.5% translates to 63.75% from 2 point range, so Novak was still quite effective. Bargnani is a better all round offensive player; doesn't defend well; doesn't rebound that well but rebounds much, much better than Novak. However, by Novak standing in the corner and demanding a player to cover him, he did help to open up the middle.

Being a Knicks fan, what I like to do is give the team and the players the benefit of the doubt. Look at the positives more than the negatives and give everyone a chance to prove themselves before ripping into them. It provides for a much more enjoyable off-season.

are you implying that carmelo anthony is uncoachable?


No, not at all. Curious about what I said would lead to that conclusion? I'm just trying to counter tkf's obsession with hating on Melo and Bargs, and almost everything else the Knicks did. I want to know what is his alternate strategy? I'm glad we have Melo and am looking forward to a strong winning season from the team.

coaches and gms have tried to "figure out how to make it work with melo" his entire career. eventually you have to ask the question: is melo the type of player you can build a winner around and if not, is he coachable to the point that a coach can change his game from mediocre to superlative. melo's career record has been decidedly mediocre at best, falling well short of superlative. woodson is an enabler not an educator.

thought experiment: put popovich or rivers or thibodeau on the bench and what happens with melo? what happens with the knicks?

these are very thought-provoking questions, no?

What happens?

Maybe he opts out?

tkf
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8/14/2013  10:46 AM
nixluva wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:People are down on Bargs because of his rebounding and team D. It's about removing 1-2 misses from his offense that he had to take in Toronto to get his offense back up to par.

I agree, but I think it's really shortsighted. This team didn't have anyone who could produce 50%+ from mid range last year. If teams are going to try to take away PnR and drives to the basket like the Pacers, then you have to be able to hit shots they leave open. Beno and AB can do that. They both have the skill of being able to knock down the Mid Range jumper. We'll still have the 3pt shooting and ISO plays, but we'll be adding good mid range, PnP offense too.

Woody is gonna be able to put AB in better scoring situations. AB won't have to carry the team and I think that's going to help him tremendously. If Woody can get AB to focus more on his defense and rebounding then he'll reach his full potential. He doesn't have to be the greatest rebounder or defender. He simply has to improve his effort on that end.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/sam-mitchell-disappointed-in-andrea-bargnani-development-raptors/

read that article.. not only was he coddled, but mitchell as let go because bargnani was not comfortable with a tough , gritty coach. remember mitchell was a great coach for Bosh, he led the raps to the playoffs, won coach of the year and then was fired? why? to cow tow to soft azz Bargnani.. that is why the raps got in guys like delfino, garbajosa, guys he felt comfortable with.. and what was the result? the raps sucked!!

There is a lot of wishful thinking going on in this thread... woodson first of all is not as good of a coach as mitchell, and woodson is not a good offensive coach, so all this talk of putting AB in better scoring situations is hilarious...


Beno and AB can do that. They both have the skill of being able to knock down the Mid Range jumper. We'll still have the 3pt shooting and ISO plays, but we'll be adding good mid range, PnP offense too.

you make them sound like stockton and malone.. let me ask you, why was no one knocking down the raps door for bargnani and then offering beno more than a vet deal? I mean most of these GM's and scouts are pretty darn bright... both guys were attainable, why not go after them?

This surely will be an interesting season... The bargnani threads are going to be classics..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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8/14/2013  10:51 AM
IronWillGiroud wrote:when bargs gets hot, you can ride him, that's the thing:

we just added another 30 point scorer: on any given night this guy can drop 30 on you,

you can have games this year where you might see something like:

bargs 31 points
melo 34
jr 32

and we win something like, 121-99 against the warriors,

i don't know if three guys have ever dropped 30 each in the same game, and if no one has done it then i know we have a good chance at being the first,

the 30 30 30 game

I don't think you will ever see that.. if you think those three will get that then you have to account for the warriors putting up 150..... especially if the pace is pushed..

steph curry, clay thompson, iggy, lee, come on, you are not holding them, to 99 points if you think the knicks will get to 121...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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8/14/2013  10:56 AM
IronWillGiroud wrote:you have a case now where melo can drop 5 threes, bargs drops 5, and jr drops 5,

that's 15 threes from three guys!!! that WILL happen this year, at least once!

you're shooting teams out of the building with this line up

ok, this thread has reached defcon5..why not join in,what the heck... i mean while we are at it IWG

felton will have 20 assist, beno 22, prigs 24 all in that same game..

chandler will have 25 boards, kenyon 22, in that same game

Artest and shumpert will hold curry and iggy to 3 points each.. in that same game


knicks will win 180-40

this game will be EPIC!!!

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
dk7th
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USA
8/14/2013  11:26 AM
tkf wrote:
IronWillGiroud wrote:when bargs gets hot, you can ride him, that's the thing:

we just added another 30 point scorer: on any given night this guy can drop 30 on you,

you can have games this year where you might see something like:

bargs 31 points
melo 34
jr 32

and we win something like, 121-99 against the warriors,

i don't know if three guys have ever dropped 30 each in the same game, and if no one has done it then i know we have a good chance at being the first,

the 30 30 30 game

I don't think you will ever see that.. if you think those three will get that then you have to account for the warriors putting up 150..... especially if the pace is pushed..

steph curry, clay thompson, iggy, lee, come on, you are not holding them, to 99 points if you think the knicks will get to 121...

slightly off topic, but when i was thinking of david lee and his particular skills i wonder if the warriors would ever try to run the triangle offense with him and curry or even iguodala. i know curry's a force from 3-point land but as a variation to their. offense so you take advantage of lee's considerable passing skills.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
tkf
Posts: 36487
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8/14/2013  12:07 PM
dk7th wrote:
tkf wrote:
IronWillGiroud wrote:when bargs gets hot, you can ride him, that's the thing:

we just added another 30 point scorer: on any given night this guy can drop 30 on you,

you can have games this year where you might see something like:

bargs 31 points
melo 34
jr 32

and we win something like, 121-99 against the warriors,

i don't know if three guys have ever dropped 30 each in the same game, and if no one has done it then i know we have a good chance at being the first,

the 30 30 30 game

I don't think you will ever see that.. if you think those three will get that then you have to account for the warriors putting up 150..... especially if the pace is pushed..

steph curry, clay thompson, iggy, lee, come on, you are not holding them, to 99 points if you think the knicks will get to 121...

slightly off topic, but when i was thinking of david lee and his particular skills i wonder if the warriors would ever try to run the triangle offense with him and curry or even iguodala. i know curry's a force from 3-point land but as a variation to their. offense so you take advantage of lee's considerable passing skills.

interesting point, but I think the warriors like and are built for the up and down game, and less of the controlled half court game.. that is an interesting point tho. I am sure curry and clay would work well in the triangle, espcially with clay's shooting skills.. And also add in Bogut who is not a bad passer himself..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Carmelo Is Right, Andrea Bargnini Was a Steal

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