dk7th wrote:

Anji wrote:For an arbitrary award, you Anti-Melo guys sure spent a lot of time trying to shoot him down.

How rationally is that???

well i don't know. isn't this award pretty much a one horse, occasional two-horse race, with a severe dropoff after that? i mean the number of 1st and 2nd place votes are generally lopsidedly in the number 1 and 2 positions?

melo is ranked number 2 of course. and maybe he'll keep that up who knows.

generally, though, to say that a player is in the running doesn't mean much at all at the end of the day. you can talk up carmelo as an "mvp candidate" all you want but unless he is a clearcut and runaway favorite it's just part of the empty rhetoric that characterizes the stern-era marketing nba. but if fans want to lap this swill up hey who am i to stop them?

same with all-nba third team players. it's a tin-plated accolade.

Again if it is meaningless why protest so much??? Like you said, he just might win, which is all the thread is about.

I don't think fans wanting their player to win an accolade deserves 30 pages of back and forth, over a tin-plated empty award to boot.

Seems like it has more to do with a certain crowd trying to put Melo in his place at any and every turn.

Anji wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Anji wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Anji wrote:For an arbitrary award, you Anti-Melo guys sure spent a lot of time trying to shoot him down.

How rationally is that???

And the other half spent a lot of time trying to build him up for an arbitrary reward.

Which is only bad if you are a Nyets fans or a fan of 28 other teams, fans tend to arbitrary do alot of things for their team and players.

What was this websites name again????

I think almost everyone here loves the Knicks. The issue is just how to distribute the credit for the 10-4 start. Some people are building up Carmelo and downplaying the contributions of Kidd, Smith, and Chandler. You could call them KSC-Haters. Others are giving those three more credit and Melo less.

JrZyHuStLa wrote:Hope everyone is well. It's been a while since I've posted around these parts. Been pretty busy with things, but now that the NBA is back I'll be sure to provide my much needed insight on UK.com.

The spider webs have been cleared (some of you may know what this means), the team plays better offensively than any offensive minded philosophy can implement. They pass, shoot, and DEFEND aggressively.

Love him or hate him, this team needs Carmelo. They're a middle of the pack team without his offense, rebounding, and leadership (yes, I said leadership). He is the finishing touch on a team that has true centers and a true point guard in Jason Kidd. There's no better way to complement a suffocating defense than to have a player who can score at will in any given type of setup. This team can't beat Miami without him. Thinking so is just delusional. If they're a 50+ team, he will be talked about in the MVP race all season.

We're doing big things this year, and we don't even have Shump back yet.

Feels good to talk about Knicks basketball again.

The OP doesn't scream KSC-Hating to me.

14 games in, he's still there. And he'll be there throughout all 82.

Yea. Carmelo Anthony is for real.

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:First it was "It's too early to put him in the MVP race after 5 games."

14 games in, he's still there. And he'll be there throughout all 82.

Yea. Carmelo Anthony is for real.

along with about 10-12 other guys.. but it is a 2 dog race.... lebron and Durant..

Where's Gallinari? Just curious.

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:First it was "It's too early to put him in the MVP race after 5 games."

14 games in, he's still there. And he'll be there throughout all 82.

Yea. Carmelo Anthony is for real.

along with about 10-12 other guys.. but it is a 2 dog race.... lebron and Durant..

Where's Gallinari? Just curious.

in Denver..

1800 miles away from MSG. Works for me.

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:First it was "It's too early to put him in the MVP race after 5 games."

14 games in, he's still there. And he'll be there throughout all 82.

Yea. Carmelo Anthony is for real.

along with about 10-12 other guys.. but it is a 2 dog race.... lebron and Durant..

Where's Gallinari? Just curious.

in Denver..

1800 miles away from MSG. Works for me.

yea, gallo likes the cool young vibe out in denver... no need to hang around the nursing home otherwise known as MSG..

I see a lot of desperation is your posts lately.

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:First it was "It's too early to put him in the MVP race after 5 games."

14 games in, he's still there. And he'll be there throughout all 82.

Yea. Carmelo Anthony is for real.

along with about 10-12 other guys.. but it is a 2 dog race.... lebron and Durant..

Where's Gallinari? Just curious.

in Denver..

1800 miles away from MSG. Works for me.

yea, gallo likes the cool young vibe out in denver... no need to hang around the nursing home otherwise known as MSG..

I see a lot of desperation is your posts lately.

honestly man, you are not on my level.. pretty simple, why bring up gallo? this is what I call your bail out method.... I usually ignore your post, except when things are slow, I will entertain the childish drivel you present..

desperation? please.....I actually feel bad for some of the beatings you have taken lately....

desperation is your attempt to defend carmelo and in doing so, you have to keep bringing up gallo... that is sad bro....

hahaha.

I'll stop. No ill will here.

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

3G4G wrote:MVP Results of the Past 9-10yrs of Melo's career

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2012.html#mvp Melo not on the list

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2011.html#mvp Melo not on the list

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2010.html#mvp Melo finished 6th

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2009.html#mvp Melo not on the list....

Billups finished 6th trolol you know the guy a couple of us said was better or more important than Melo this season but some rascals in this very thread tried to beg to differ. Just like a small few are saying Kidd is as impactful as Melo to this current team

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2008.html#mvp Melo finished 13th

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2007.html#mvp Melo finished 15th

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2006.html#mvp Melo not on the list

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2005.html#mvp Melo not on the list

Camby finished 15th trolol you know Melo never played with anybody worthy while in Denver

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2004.html#mvp Melo finished 14th

I see Melo by season's end finishing really no better than the 2010 season as 6th. Ironic analyst felt this was his was his best season as a player TEAM impact, which probably doesn't match up with what most fans felt was his best season

good research and great find on billups.. both of us were saying he was as important to that team than anyone, of course we felt the backlash.. haha

know what else I noticed that I mentioned before.. look who names shows up on that list quite a bit...

yep our very own, Amare!!!!! who I said when healthy is the best player on the knicks...

Yea when Denver wins its because of Billups and Camby, when they lose its because of Melo.

Amare was rated high on the MVP ladder and didn't make anyone better, he was just a high production guy with everything tailored for him with Gallo and Chandler spacing the floor, Fields rebounding well at the guard spot to cover for Gallo, Chandler and Amare's average rebounding ability and Raymond Felton playing at allstar level in MDA's system. You could say Raymond Felton was as important to the Knicks improvement as Amare since we all know Amare isn't as good without a PG create for him.

Rick Carlisle stated they won the champonship because Jason Kidd allowed them to not run any set plays which stopped Miami's ability to set there defense. Kept them off balance. Chandler basically covered for Dirk's weaknesses in the post. Nobody else looks to down grade Dirk because he needed Kidd and Chandler to help him win one.

Its clear though that you guys will choose who you D ride and who you will hate on based on personal opinion and not standards that you will hold everyone accountable for reguardless.

as i have been saying the award is generally too arbitrary to even discuss rationally. look at your post-- you make the false assumption that the award is somehow NOT based on personal opinion and umbrella standards. don't you see how absurd that assertion is?

nevertheless lets play your game by your rules: if i am a sportcaster or sportswriter amare's performance was fool's gold and he was not an mvp candidate-- that was just sentimentality and marketing. he got his in a vacuum and therefore at the expense of his teammates. that's not mvp work.

dirk learned how to play with his back to the basket and learned to read converging doubles that kept the ball ahead of defenders. and his TS% for the season was an elite 61.2. usg 28 and assist rate 14.2. translation: incredibly efficient in isolation when necessary and did not hurt his team. in the playoffs he was even more dominant.

what is alarming-- and damning-- is that amare and melo's numbers are basically the same: TS, USG, assist rate all within a point of each other.

seeing is believing and when you look at the stats it backs up what you see-- unless you are a carmelo anthony acolyte.

what few people realize is that so many players they think are great are, at the end of the day, fool's gold, close to zero-sum players.

I don't think Melo will win the MVP, Only reason Y I would care if he did would be because it would raise up his status and attrack other star players to want to play with him even more if he is viewed as that calibre of player especially with in 3yrs we will have cap flexibility. And it would mean we were one of the better teams in the NBA by seasons end and we are playing great basketball. Other then that I never really cared for MVP.

99% of the board already agreed that it was premature, and 99% of the board understands the uphill battle he will have to go through to actually win the award. At the same time wouldn't it be cool for a Knick to win something like that? Or is it not cool because its Melo.

The argument about Melo being MVP on this thread is more about the ppl who act like its blasphemy to mention something like that, rather then trying to defend how great Melo is.

newyorknewyork wrote:

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

3G4G wrote:MVP Results of the Past 9-10yrs of Melo's career

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2012.html#mvp Melo not on the list

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2011.html#mvp Melo not on the list

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2010.html#mvp Melo finished 6th

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2009.html#mvp Melo not on the list....

Billups finished 6th trolol you know the guy a couple of us said was better or more important than Melo this season but some rascals in this very thread tried to beg to differ. Just like a small few are saying Kidd is as impactful as Melo to this current team

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2008.html#mvp Melo finished 13th

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2007.html#mvp Melo finished 15th

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2006.html#mvp Melo not on the list

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2005.html#mvp Melo not on the list

Camby finished 15th trolol you know Melo never played with anybody worthy while in Denver

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2004.html#mvp Melo finished 14th

I see Melo by season's end finishing really no better than the 2010 season as 6th. Ironic analyst felt this was his was his best season as a player TEAM impact, which probably doesn't match up with what most fans felt was his best season

good research and great find on billups.. both of us were saying he was as important to that team than anyone, of course we felt the backlash.. haha

know what else I noticed that I mentioned before.. look who names shows up on that list quite a bit...

yep our very own, Amare!!!!! who I said when healthy is the best player on the knicks...

Yea when Denver wins its because of Billups and Camby, when they lose its because of Melo.

Amare was rated high on the MVP ladder and didn't make anyone better, he was just a high production guy with everything tailored for him with Gallo and Chandler spacing the floor, Fields rebounding well at the guard spot to cover for Gallo, Chandler and Amare's average rebounding ability and Raymond Felton playing at allstar level in MDA's system. You could say Raymond Felton was as important to the Knicks improvement as Amare since we all know Amare isn't as good without a PG create for him.

Rick Carlisle stated they won the champonship because Jason Kidd allowed them to not run any set plays which stopped Miami's ability to set there defense. Kept them off balance. Chandler basically covered for Dirk's weaknesses in the post. Nobody else looks to down grade Dirk because he needed Kidd and Chandler to help him win one.

Its clear though that you guys will choose who you D ride and who you will hate on based on personal opinion and not standards that you will hold everyone accountable for reguardless.

as i have been saying the award is generally too arbitrary to even discuss rationally. look at your post-- you make the false assumption that the award is somehow NOT based on personal opinion and umbrella standards. don't you see how absurd that assertion is?

nevertheless lets play your game by your rules: if i am a sportcaster or sportswriter amare's performance was fool's gold and he was not an mvp candidate-- that was just sentimentality and marketing. he got his in a vacuum and therefore at the expense of his teammates. that's not mvp work.

dirk learned how to play with his back to the basket and learned to read converging doubles that kept the ball ahead of defenders. and his TS% for the season was an elite 61.2. usg 28 and assist rate 14.2. translation: incredibly efficient in isolation when necessary and did not hurt his team. in the playoffs he was even more dominant.

what is alarming-- and damning-- is that amare and melo's numbers are basically the same: TS, USG, assist rate all within a point of each other.

seeing is believing and when you look at the stats it backs up what you see-- unless you are a carmelo anthony acolyte.

what few people realize is that so many players they think are great are, at the end of the day, fool's gold, close to zero-sum players.

I don't think Melo will win the MVP, Only reason Y I would care if he did would be because it would raise up his status and attrack other star players to want to play with him even more if he is viewed as that calibre of player especially with in 3yrs we will have cap flexibility. And it would mean we were one of the better teams in the NBA by seasons end and we are playing great basketball. Other then that I never really cared for MVP.

99% of the board already agreed that it was premature, and 99% of the board understands the uphill battle he will have to go through to actually win the award. At the same time wouldn't it be cool for a Knick to win something like that? Or is it not cool because its Melo.

The argument about Melo being MVP on this thread is more about the ppl who act like its blasphemy to mention something like that, rather then trying to defend how great Melo is.

Exactamundo.

Just mentioning MVP and Melo in the same sentence causes people to raise their pitchforks.

Everyone knows Lebron and Durant are the front runners, they're the 2 best players in the league. All Knick fans that are defending Melo are saying that he might get a few votes thrown his way is all.

(Inner voice, wouldn't it be nice for a Knick to actually win a League MVP. Melo is soooo dreammmy)...SHYT, there's an angry mob at my door!

newyorknewyork wrote:

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

3G4G wrote:MVP Results of the Past 9-10yrs of Melo's career

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2012.html#mvp Melo not on the list

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2011.html#mvp Melo not on the list

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2010.html#mvp Melo finished 6th

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2009.html#mvp Melo not on the list....

Billups finished 6th trolol you know the guy a couple of us said was better or more important than Melo this season but some rascals in this very thread tried to beg to differ. Just like a small few are saying Kidd is as impactful as Melo to this current team

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2008.html#mvp Melo finished 13th

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2007.html#mvp Melo finished 15th

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2006.html#mvp Melo not on the list

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2005.html#mvp Melo not on the list

Camby finished 15th trolol you know Melo never played with anybody worthy while in Denver

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2004.html#mvp Melo finished 14th

I see Melo by season's end finishing really no better than the 2010 season as 6th. Ironic analyst felt this was his was his best season as a player TEAM impact, which probably doesn't match up with what most fans felt was his best season

good research and great find on billups.. both of us were saying he was as important to that team than anyone, of course we felt the backlash.. haha

know what else I noticed that I mentioned before.. look who names shows up on that list quite a bit...

yep our very own, Amare!!!!! who I said when healthy is the best player on the knicks...

Yea when Denver wins its because of Billups and Camby, when they lose its because of Melo.

Amare was rated high on the MVP ladder and didn't make anyone better, he was just a high production guy with everything tailored for him with Gallo and Chandler spacing the floor, Fields rebounding well at the guard spot to cover for Gallo, Chandler and Amare's average rebounding ability and Raymond Felton playing at allstar level in MDA's system. You could say Raymond Felton was as important to the Knicks improvement as Amare since we all know Amare isn't as good without a PG create for him.

Rick Carlisle stated they won the champonship because Jason Kidd allowed them to not run any set plays which stopped Miami's ability to set there defense. Kept them off balance. Chandler basically covered for Dirk's weaknesses in the post. Nobody else looks to down grade Dirk because he needed Kidd and Chandler to help him win one.

Its clear though that you guys will choose who you D ride and who you will hate on based on personal opinion and not standards that you will hold everyone accountable for reguardless.

as i have been saying the award is generally too arbitrary to even discuss rationally. look at your post-- you make the false assumption that the award is somehow NOT based on personal opinion and umbrella standards. don't you see how absurd that assertion is?

nevertheless lets play your game by your rules: if i am a sportcaster or sportswriter amare's performance was fool's gold and he was not an mvp candidate-- that was just sentimentality and marketing. he got his in a vacuum and therefore at the expense of his teammates. that's not mvp work.

dirk learned how to play with his back to the basket and learned to read converging doubles that kept the ball ahead of defenders. and his TS% for the season was an elite 61.2. usg 28 and assist rate 14.2. translation: incredibly efficient in isolation when necessary and did not hurt his team. in the playoffs he was even more dominant.

what is alarming-- and damning-- is that amare and melo's numbers are basically the same: TS, USG, assist rate all within a point of each other.

seeing is believing and when you look at the stats it backs up what you see-- unless you are a carmelo anthony acolyte.

what few people realize is that so many players they think are great are, at the end of the day, fool's gold, close to zero-sum players.

I don't think Melo will win the MVP, Only reason Y I would care if he did would be because it would raise up his status and attrack other star players to want to play with him even more if he is viewed as that calibre of player especially with in 3yrs we will have cap flexibility. And it would mean we were one of the better teams in the NBA by seasons end and we are playing great basketball. Other then that I never really cared for MVP.

99% of the board already agreed that it was premature, and 99% of the board understands the uphill battle he will have to go through to actually win the award. At the same time wouldn't it be cool for a Knick to win something like that? Or is it not cool because its Melo.

The argument about Melo being MVP on this thread is more about the ppl who act like its blasphemy to mention something like that, rather then trying to defend how great Melo is.

blasphemy? nah just unrealistic when you look at how dominant a season you have to have. looking at the past winners it has been either a runaway for one player or a not so evenly matched two-man race. every player 3rd and beyond suffers a shellacking when the votes are tabulated.

the closest antecedent for melo in the mvp race is karl malone... right?

ts% 60 elite
10 rebounds a game
4.4 assists a game
32 usg but assisted on 25% of his shots so he was not a black hole

even with help carmelo's numbers don't hold up, ie 08-09 with billups

ts% 53 not good at all
7 rebounds
3.4 assists
32 usg and assisted on 18% of his shots so he was something of a black hole

this year thus far

ts% 57.5 is no question better, best of his career for the first 14 games leastaways. can he keep it up or will he revert to his career average of an anemic 54%? odds are against his keeping it up, aren't they?
7 rebounds
2 assists
34 usg and assisted on 10% of his shots.... yikes