Posted by GhandiOrr:

Posted by nyk4ever:

I don't get the double-standard. Why are the Wayans brothers allowed to pose as and stereotype white girls?

I'm not looking for trouble, I'm just asking.

I don't know that I have the answer, but putting it in CONTEXT is important to me.

I know that after slavery was ended the popularity of minstrel shows took off. And live minstrel shows, where white men put on black face and pretended to be black men, lasted well into the 1930's. The Amos and Andy radio show outlasted that. In the early 1950's, two actual black men were cast as Amos 'N Andy for the CBS TV Show. The good news was it was the first virtually all black cast on a tv show. The bad news is they were all playing the cliche lazy, idiot character that slave owners had tagged some black people with a hundred years before because some blacks thought the only way to lighten their load was to pretend to not understand instructions.

I apologize if you know all this, but when you ask why the Wayans Brothers can get away with stereotyping white women, I just want to be sure you know why they would think it has a place in the thread of American cultural history in the first place.

So, why can they get away with it? It might be because white people aren't offended by it. My father was mulatto and the light skinned one in his family and my mother is white. People assume I'm white. People assume my sister is black. My idetity is as an outsider looking in on all of this. I don't know how a black person or white person is supposed to feel about being made fun of. What I see is in general blacks get really offended when white people do it. Some blacks get offended or dissapointed when they see blacks insulting blacks. White people? I don't know. Are their feelings hurt when they hear Richard Pryor's "white guy" voice. Aside from a racist joke here and there do white people NEED to put on black face and impersonate black people? It doesn't seem like they do. So maybe that is why there is a double standard.

Great post Ghandi, you bring up some interesting points, all very valid. I'm not aware of those ministel shows, they sound pretty dumb to me, haha.

Posted by playa2:

If this country didn't degrade different races of people and tried to keep them behind(down), none of what Imus said would have meant that much.

But since america has a sinister history that few really choose to learn about, they will never comprehend what kind of impact and weight those statements carried by mr Don Imus.

"MR. Don Imus"?

Posted by highfivesucka:

i thought the point of the "Balkman is white" thread was taking a shot at stephen A. smith for saying Lee gets a pass because he is white, not suggesting balkman is white... because balkman plays similar to Lee, so is SAS going to say Balkman gets a pass for some other ridiculous reason, not necessarily because he's white obviously... maybe im wrong?

These's arguments have been going on for decades. Race and racism is still a major topic in society and will be for some time to come. It comes from all creeds, not just white people. I think it should come down to 'what you said was insulting to me' and let the other person figure it out for themselves to either apologize or remain ignorant, in which case can then be attacked and dealt with at the wallet. Nobody has to like anyone for whatever reason, but can not be allowed to say such things. It's getting to a point were we are all being forced to get along, by not talking to each other openly anymore. You really do have to be careful of what you say in this politically correct American society. There's got to be a fine line somewhere were you can be let know if you have offended someone without going to the extremes. Imus is an old horse and he was probably brought up a totally different way. One he doesn't even understand himself, when dealing with todays society. Not making excuses, but suggesting looking for the fine line. I thought the firing was unecessary. It just makes eveyone more afraid to slip of the tongue.

I was also reading the real reason he was probably fired. Apparently, there were powers that be, within the organizations that he worked for, just wanted to get rid of him anyway. So it was more about using the excuse to do so. Again, it just makes everyone afraid. This solves nothing, it does not build an understanding between people, a real understanding. For Imus and that other dude, I forget his name at the moment, from Sienfeld, only time will tell if they have been forgiven.

Hmm, that's a new one.

Posted by BlueSeats:

Part of the reason that CBS fired Imus was because some of their employees, like Al Roker, wanted him gone.

Yup, the cleaning lady is covering the White House and the weatherman just got whitey fired. (this is parody and sarcasm, folks)

I think it represents the real and significant amount of power and influence that blacks are beginning to wield, not just ON corporations and politics, but WITHIN corporations and halls of government. No longer will the revolution be led outside in the streets by the disenfranchised; we are witnessing an evolution led from within boardrooms, with enfranchised blacks seated at the table.

I don't want to get too grandiose here, but I happen to think what transpired was meaningful. My only hope is that the situation will be used as a platform for both races to to work together on what is permissible and appropriate in mainstream venues. Not that I'm so PC, but I'm also not the one who feels so aggrieved.

9/11 was supposed to be this great sobering experience for this country. Remember violent films were being pulled from production, irony was declared dead, etc. But instead of taking hold and people being called to public service, we were told simply to shop our blues away and go back to life as usual.

Maybe this matter will lead to more meaningful conclusions.

It won't happen because this world's spirit is guided by evil influences. The rotten fruit which these influences produce is Commercialism, among many other rotten fruits. The core of Commercialism is Money. Money is the root of all sorts hurtful things. It's a vicious cycle that will never end because Money seperates everything in this world.

In my entire mental database of Hip hop records, I can't say I have ever heard the phrase "nappy headed hos", or "Jiggaboos" used on a rap record, so until someone verifies that it has in fact been used on a rap record, I would love for everyone to stop using hip hop as an excuse for Imus' racist and sexist remarks. The United States is a place that was founded on racism and is one of the last industrialized nations to give women the right to vote. It is a sexist nation. Hip Hop mirrors those negative aspects among others; but Hip Hop is not the cause nor sole promoter of said negative practices, so i'd love to understand why hip Hop, and not american culture in general, is on trial alone here.

Whats happening here is people are using rappers to make broad generalizations about Black people. The line of reasoning goes like this: rappers represent black people: rappers disrespect women: black people dont respect their women so why should we? Well if Snoop Dogg represented all black men, you'd have a point. But he doesn't, not anymore than Howard Stern represents the views of all Jews or George Bush's inteligence reprents the inteligence of all white people. I find this whole line of 'reasoning' to be racist and immature.

It is especially ironic coming from the 'personal responsibility' crowd. As soon as one of their's gets in trouble they blame rappers. Yeah, Dr. Dre made Imus say that, so its not his fault. Whatever happened to taking responsibility for your actions. Hip Hop Music is 30 years old, and for only about the last half of those years was this kind of negative derogatory music being made. So unless sexism started in 1992, I think this is certified BS. If you really wanna address sexism and racism, in a meaningful way, you have got to be joking if you thinking rapers are the first on last stop on that journey. And FYI, I am repulsed by most of the stuff most of these rappers say, but I'm sure a bunch of *******s have already looked at me and 'figured' that I call my wife and 2 daughters bitches and nappy-headed hos. This is pathetic.

Posted by TrueBlue:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Part of the reason that CBS fired Imus was because some of their employees, like Al Roker, wanted him gone.

Yup, the cleaning lady is covering the White House and the weatherman just got whitey fired. (this is parody and sarcasm, folks)

I think it represents the real and significant amount of power and influence that blacks are beginning to wield, not just ON corporations and politics, but WITHIN corporations and halls of government. No longer will the revolution be led outside in the streets by the disenfranchised; we are witnessing an evolution led from within boardrooms, with enfranchised blacks seated at the table.

I don't want to get too grandiose here, but I happen to think what transpired was meaningful. My only hope is that the situation will be used as a platform for both races to to work together on what is permissible and appropriate in mainstream venues. Not that I'm so PC, but I'm also not the one who feels so aggrieved.

9/11 was supposed to be this great sobering experience for this country. Remember violent films were being pulled from production, irony was declared dead, etc. But instead of taking hold and people being called to public service, we were told simply to shop our blues away and go back to life as usual.

Maybe this matter will lead to more meaningful conclusions.

It won't happen because this world's spirit is guided by evil influences. The rotten fruit which these influences produce is Commercialism, among many other rotten fruits. The core of Commercialism is Money. Money is the root of all sorts hurtful things. It's a vicious cycle that will never end because Money seperates everything in this world.

I think I get where you are coming from, not really sure though.

It's not just about money, it's about human nature, and that's the hardest thing to overcome. Before there was nationalism, before their was racism, there was tribalism. Some of these tribes were so closely related it isn't funny, but still they warred against one another. It seems we'll find any reason to separate and differenciate ourselves from one another. Nationalism, politics, religion, gender, sexual orientation... there's always a reason.

But still, we try to push forward. Tribes join and become races. Races join and become Nations. Nations join and become military or economic unions. And then, somehow, things break down all over again, as we see in places like the former Soviet Union and Iraq.

But perhaps on the rebuild side of each cycle it gets easier to form willing alliances such that the unions get larger, more sophisticated, and more secure. Perhaps..

That said, in the real long-term macro view I'm pretty pessimistic for humanity. In a couple hundred year I see the planet way overpopulated, overpolluted, stripped of natural resources, dirty radiation all around, toxic water, etc, etc, with all sorts of factions fighting constantly over what's still clean and useable. Either some fools will play chicken with the bomb and slip, or we'll die off from toxicity, but it'll be Road Warrior sooner or later. If we don't all die off completely, those few who remain will cluster amongst themselves, form tribes and begin again with men dominating women, and tribes warring against tribes.

But in the meanwhile... in spite of the dissolution of traditional values and a lot of schlock all around, I think our society is on an evolutionary uptick. This is what it's like to work towards inclusion and social enlightenment. It's worth a try, because what came before found itself in constant conflict too.

But nor is social evolution without conflict. For instance, the day we elect a mixed race, lesbian, atheist president will be hailed as a landmark of evolution by some, and the hight of social and moral decay by others. So are we headed in the right direction or not?

The struggle is constant, because that's what humans do.

killa4luv - outstanding cultural perspective from a musical point of view

"Don't push me 'cause I'm close to the edge..."

Jackson and Sharpton

One more thing Simrud

you gotta understand how the media game is played

the same outlets (FOX) who chastise people like Jeese Jackson and Al Sharpton are the first to run to only those two voices for any juicy material on any issue they can stir up passions on.

There are many more qualified, and brilliant, examples of diverse leadership voices - on all sides - but those voices are rarely given the spotlight as ratings are the most valuable commodity on the line. If the producers of information programs cared to research past the superficial, they would find many more voices - and you would have much less of the same sound bites to complain about.

Read a book. "Infidel", by Ayann Hirsi Ali, looks interesting enough to start with on our list.

I wonder what John Henrik Clarke, one of the pre-eminent scholars on world history, would have to say about current events.

Posted by oohah:


Rarely does he address basketball. He spits bile on a daily basis, more than all the rest of the board combined, constantly attacking other posters, anyone he can, as long as they don't have the power to ban him, or he doesn't think he will ever see them in real life. He spews remotely from his keyboard because it is safe. He would never call another man or woman for that matter a racist (A nasty thing to say) in real life. He would demure. And why would he ignore the most plainly racist comments? Because he doesn't care, and needs a couple of cohorts, so he finds kindred spirits of a similar nature, and they can say anything, no matter how abhorrent, it doesn't bother a man of no beliefs.

Hmmm, I've been to a UltimateKnicks get together, have you?

How about this oohah, if you agree to come to the next UltimateKnicks get together, I GUARANTEE that I'll be there.

So you think that calling someone a racist is a "nasty thing to say" but where were you when Rich called me one? More than a few people on this board defended me but you were noticeably absent.

Posted by islesfan:

More than a few people on this board defended me but you were noticeably absent.

Defend yourself. Boy, some people r really weak.