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Clean
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12/27/2023  7:37 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/27/2023  7:38 AM
Yall can give up on Obi if you want, but I will not. He had one of the lowest playing time totals from the first round in his draft. He might be older but he is young in NBA minutes. Just like Sims(Sims is a more extreme case) he had no reason starting from getting low playing time.
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GustavBahler
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12/27/2023  7:53 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/27/2023  7:56 AM
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Clean wrote:
Not sure why they would start him from the beginning of the season. He needs more seasoning before you can even think about that.


Obi should spend this offseason doing nothing but working on his lateral movement. Its the one thing thats keeping him from taking his game to the next level. It affects both sides of the court, mostly D. One thing about his game that hasnt changed enough.

I think at this late in the game - Obi is near 26 now - you either have it and can refine it, or you don't. Obi, like RJ, just do not have it.

Its not something that involves skill. Its all about putting in the time and effort. Agree that expecting Obi to show a new wrinkle in his game is probably a stretch at this point. Becoming laterally quicker however, is doable IMO if Obi puts in the work.
nycericanguy
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12/27/2023  7:54 AM
even when he was starting he wasn't playing starter minutes. He can obviously score, it's everything else that keeps him off the court. only 15 min last night.
KnickDanger
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12/27/2023  11:03 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
KnickDanger wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Clean wrote:
Not sure why they would start him from the beginning of the season. He needs more seasoning before you can even think about that.


Obi should spend this offseason doing nothing but working on his lateral movement. Its the one thing thats keeping him from taking his game to the next level. It affects both sides of the court, mostly D. One thing about his game that hasnt changed enough.

I think at this late in the game - Obi is near 26 now - you either have it and can refine it, or you don't. Obi, like RJ, just do not have it.


I was under the impression Thibs was holding Obi back...oh well....

Thibs gave Obi the same role no matter how well he played. Mostly stuck in the corner.

I guess its just an amazing coincidence that 2 other players have complained about the same thing this season.

Not being good enough to start full time, wasnt a good reason to give Obi so little PT, and such a small role in the offense.


Yes, Obi has certainly proven you right. My bad.
martin
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12/27/2023  11:25 AM
nycericanguy wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Clean wrote:
Not sure why they would start him from the beginning of the season. He needs more seasoning before you can even think about that.


Obi should spend this offseason doing nothing but working on his lateral movement. Its the one thing thats keeping him from taking his game to the next level. It affects both sides of the court, mostly D. One thing about his game that hasnt changed enough.

I think at this late in the game - Obi is near 26 now - you either have it and can refine it, or you don't. Obi, like RJ, just do not have it.

RJ is held to a different standard but there's a reason he has been a staple in the starting lineup and a 30+mpg player on good teams. He's solid at a lot of things. He's not one dimensional.

He's nothing like Obi who is just a runner/finisher.

I am talking about lateral quickness and how Obi/RJ are not above average in that area.

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martin
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12/27/2023  11:30 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/27/2023  11:33 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Clean wrote:
Not sure why they would start him from the beginning of the season. He needs more seasoning before you can even think about that.


Obi should spend this offseason doing nothing but working on his lateral movement. Its the one thing thats keeping him from taking his game to the next level. It affects both sides of the court, mostly D. One thing about his game that hasnt changed enough.

I think at this late in the game - Obi is near 26 now - you either have it and can refine it, or you don't. Obi, like RJ, just do not have it.

Its not something that involves skill. Its all about putting in the time and effort. Agree that expecting Obi to show a new wrinkle in his game is probably a stretch at this point. Becoming laterally quicker however, is doable IMO if Obi puts in the work.

Your assumption is that a former D1 athlete with all that coaching who turned professional and had access to those coaches and scout... none of those people PLUS Obi thought to work on lateral quickness until he was 25?

I'm assuming he has put in a colossal amount of time working on that aspect of his game, or at least some time already.

At some point you just say that he doesn't and won't have it. It's the same as burst or vertical, you need to innately have something to work on it to make a real difference in change.

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martin
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12/27/2023  12:00 PM
They are obviously not tanking the right way

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BigDaddyG
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12/27/2023  12:36 PM
martin wrote:They are obviously not tanking the right way

Kevin Knox is on the roster. I'd say their tanking methods are textbook.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
martin
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12/27/2023  12:47 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
martin wrote:They are obviously not tanking the right way

Kevin Knox is on the roster. I'd say their tanking methods are textbook.

Detroit tanking almost immaculately, they just needed to win ONCE during the last 20-30 games so the media wouldn't notice

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Clean
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12/27/2023  12:51 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
martin wrote:They are obviously not tanking the right way

Kevin Knox is on the roster. I'd say their tanking methods are textbook.

Now that you say this I saw a video of Knox having good position for a rebound and totally got it stipped from him and the other player scored. He seemed to have some of the things you want in a good player but it never materialized.
ToddTT
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12/27/2023  12:57 PM
martin wrote:Haha teams now have to be up for playing Detroit

We beat them by 6 in November. We don't play them again until February. Phew!

Oh good lord... https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XkmGrX7O0lQ
martin
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12/27/2023  1:10 PM
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martin
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12/27/2023  1:40 PM
Yikes

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GustavBahler
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12/27/2023  2:18 PM
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Clean wrote:
Not sure why they would start him from the beginning of the season. He needs more seasoning before you can even think about that.


Obi should spend this offseason doing nothing but working on his lateral movement. Its the one thing thats keeping him from taking his game to the next level. It affects both sides of the court, mostly D. One thing about his game that hasnt changed enough.

I think at this late in the game - Obi is near 26 now - you either have it and can refine it, or you don't. Obi, like RJ, just do not have it.

Its not something that involves skill. Its all about putting in the time and effort. Agree that expecting Obi to show a new wrinkle in his game is probably a stretch at this point. Becoming laterally quicker however, is doable IMO if Obi puts in the work.

Your assumption is that a former D1 athlete with all that coaching who turned professional and had access to those coaches and scout... none of those people PLUS Obi thought to work on lateral quickness until he was 25?

I'm assuming he has put in a colossal amount of time working on that aspect of his game, or at least some time already.

At some point you just say that he doesn't and won't have it. It's the same as burst or vertical, you need to innately have something to work on it to make a real difference in change.

Doug Christie went from being a lousy defender to one of the best in the league because he got cut from the Knicks, and JVG told him to focus on D. Jamal Crawford admitted very late in his career that he never worked on his game in the offseason. LJ developed a post-game out of necessity because of a bad back. So did Amar'e because of his knees. They didnt have one before they got hurt.

My point is that we dont really know what some players are doing in the offseason, except Frank who was busy editing workout videos. Its almost never too late to try to get better.

Sometimes its about getting with the right trainer, or resolving to put in the time to get faster. Im not convinced that defense has been as much of a focus for Obi as offense to this point.

You might be right that its a lost cause, but Im not there yet.
martin
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12/27/2023  3:04 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/27/2023  3:04 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Clean wrote:
Not sure why they would start him from the beginning of the season. He needs more seasoning before you can even think about that.


Obi should spend this offseason doing nothing but working on his lateral movement. Its the one thing thats keeping him from taking his game to the next level. It affects both sides of the court, mostly D. One thing about his game that hasnt changed enough.

I think at this late in the game - Obi is near 26 now - you either have it and can refine it, or you don't. Obi, like RJ, just do not have it.

Its not something that involves skill. Its all about putting in the time and effort. Agree that expecting Obi to show a new wrinkle in his game is probably a stretch at this point. Becoming laterally quicker however, is doable IMO if Obi puts in the work.

Your assumption is that a former D1 athlete with all that coaching who turned professional and had access to those coaches and scout... none of those people PLUS Obi thought to work on lateral quickness until he was 25?

I'm assuming he has put in a colossal amount of time working on that aspect of his game, or at least some time already.

At some point you just say that he doesn't and won't have it. It's the same as burst or vertical, you need to innately have something to work on it to make a real difference in change.

Doug Christie went from being a lousy defender to one of the best in the league because he got cut from the Knicks, and JVG told him to focus on D. Jamal Crawford admitted very late in his career that he never worked on his game in the offseason. LJ developed a post-game out of necessity because of a bad back. So did Amar'e because of his knees. They didnt have one before they got hurt.

My point is that we dont really know what some players are doing in the offseason, except Frank who was busy editing workout videos. Its almost never too late to try to get better.

Sometimes its about getting with the right trainer, or resolving to put in the time to get faster. Im not convinced that defense has been as much of a focus for Obi as offense to this point.

You might be right that its a lost cause, but Im not there yet.

Feel like athletic ability is something god given that you can't just learn. Vertical, lateral, explosion, speed. You just can't spend a summer and then have the vertical leaping ability Obi is god-blessed with. Same goes for lateral quickness and some types of footwork. You can certainly refine some of that in particular cases but most of those gains are realized through high school quite honestly.

You can gain some types of skills by practicing them, like post move or just putting effort, know-how and experience with some defensive moves (and as an example, Doug Christie could have been a world class hurdler if he went that direction in college - he was already blessed with athletic ability).

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Clean
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12/27/2023  6:42 PM
martin
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12/27/2023  7:59 PM
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GustavBahler
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12/27/2023  8:02 PM
Alpha1971
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12/27/2023  8:48 PM
GustavBahler wrote:

That's why the two dogs I have had have been a beagle and a Cavalier King Charles especially since my daughter was small. Ever heard of a beagle or Cavalier King Charles hurting anyone ?? 🐕
ToddTT
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12/27/2023  8:56 PM
Alpha1971 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:

That's why the two dogs I have had have been a beagle and a Cavalier King Charles especially since my daughter was small. Ever heard of a beagle or Cavalier King Charles hurting anyone ?? 🐕

I met somebody years ago that tried to stop a couple of smaller breeds from fighting with each other. Lost a thumb in the process.

Oh good lord... https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XkmGrX7O0lQ
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