arkrud wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:- we have not a "race" problem but African American nation problem. We just overlooked that new nation of people get created with specific culture which has no place yet to safe-realize and even cannot yet identifie itself. Racism is also there but this is not the major issue.

I'm sorry but you're going to have to more clearly explain this statement. I can't understand what you're trying to say here. What do you mean by "African American nation problem"? What do you mean by "new nation of people created with specific culture which has no place"?

I'm really not sure what you are saying and want you to elaborate on these points.

Every nation need place to realize it suverenity. It may be independent country or cultural enclave inside multi-national country.
It can be territorial or just cultural identity.
I believe that Afro-Americans are a new nation in the process of self-realization.
There are clearly many people of African race who are not African Americans while leaving in USA. They are representing other nations - like Iruba, Nigerians, etc.
All of then can be a subject of racism. But for African Americans it is obviously more to it.
American nation is a mix of emigrants from all over the world who came here at their own will and many with no intentions to maintain their national identity but rather became American nationals politically and culturally. It is not true however for many people who are there not by their will or were there before colonization like Native Americans and Northers People. They want to maintain their national identity separate from US Americans. And they have all rights to do so.
Same true for African Americans. But I think they just start to realize this national identity.
I think the whole American society will need to realize and embrace it. But this process is complicated and just starting.
It is definitely bigger that this Trump-no-Trump distractions.

WOW! You have a lot of concepts in your post. To simplify things from my perspective I won't try to address all of your points. Let me just say this, African Americans have ALWAYS been part of the fabric of this country! Even when we weren't considered to be so.

AA's have fought in every war this country ever fought. After gaining freedom AA's could've taken violent revenge on a massive scale but in fact that was relatively rare! All AA's ever wanted was to be treated fairly and with respect and to pursue the American Dream!

There was NEVER any justification for violence and oppression inflicted upon AA's. The restraint under the circumstances is a badge of honor and a rebuke to this nation that they were treated so poorly for so long. For what reason were AA's denied their rights or mistreated??? There is no reason other than pure evil and greed.

To this very day this country has never fully lived up to the debt they owe AA's. There would be no America as we know it without AA's. Our story is inextricably intertwined with the history of this country. We are America just as much if not more than most since we gave all for this country and received so little of the spoils of success we helped create. If you don't know what I'm talking about then go look up the many resources on how much AA's contributed to the fortunes of this country.

This is all fair and true.
My question is how you identify yourself and AA people inside America - as a unique nation which need to be treated as such or you want to dissolve into American nation which has no concept or race, nationality, and cultural identity other that American? You cannot have it both ways - it is the choice to be made.
As far as someone owe something to somebody I do not believe in this.
I owe nothing to any nation and no nation owe anything to me.
I rely only on myself and owe only what I managed to achieve.
And I give same right to every other human being to do same.
If you look at the history of the world no nation that was enslaved, murdered, tortured, and displaced get their debt paid off by anybody.
There is no fairness in history. Until oppressed get on right side of the gun they get nothing back.

African Americans didn't choose to be set apart! That was imposed upon them and to a large degree still goes on. AA's wanted to live in a colorblind society but it was the White majority that did not want it. You really don't know or understand the dynamics of race in this country. There is much I could teach you about the TRUTH of this country but you have to want to know the truth.

Natives were mistreated but did receive some recompense and land of their own! Japanese Americans that were wrongfully held in concentration camps received recompense. This country became great largely off the backs of African Slaves and all they did was kick us in the teeth!

Just so we're clear AA's are a large part of the identity and culture of America you can't separate us out of history and have the same country. There's no facet of what made America what it is that doesn't have a connection to the African slaves. That includes the Revolution and the Constitution. Everything was based off of the system of slavery and how that allowed this country to become great.

OK
So all wealth America has is build by slaves...
The rest of the people were just a bunch of cowboys drinking in saloons...
Now what? They should go back to Europe from were they unlawfully came to grab the land, kill and enslave people, and burn the crosses...
And leave everything they grab to local and displaced people to restore the historical fairness.
Obviously it is absurd.
No one has power and right to separate people in any kind of groups.
And it is not needed as they separating themselves without anyone help.
What Native and Japaneses receive is a joke comparing to all dignity that was taking away from them. Not only dignity, everything.
And they will not get it back ever. Even if the whole world will want to give it back to them.
Its gone and not returnable. Last year snow.
The history of the human kind is the history of genocide, destruction, wars, oppression, and injustice.
This how we came around. All of us.
And as we will continue to berry our had in the past and finding enemies and animosities we will never get out of it.
Time to give everyone the clean slate and leave together as one.

Like I said you really have no clue about this subject. I'm my family historian and in my research I've had to also research the family of the people who enslaved my ancestors. I have extensive records on every descendent from the man who enslaved my people. All the land and profits made going back 258 years.

In the census records they actually did detailed financial statements so I have access to just how much money they made off my ancestors hard work. I have copies of the actual record of purchase of my ancestor back in 1758! I have a nearly complete record of births and deaths from that time to the present and I can tell you it is life changing to see it all organized into a coherent record.

I'm planning to visit the area where my ancestors slaved away on plantations and visit the graves. I hope to also find where they may have buried my original ancestors back before they marked the graves of slaves. I can tell you that it's not time to just "give everyone a clean slate and live together as one". This isn't ancient history! I've got relatives still living that lived much of this horrible history.

His challenge is not a lack of understanding, it's indifference, lack of respect for others and a single minded need to rationalize anything that benefits him, however remotely into an absolute positive. It's not an uncommon combination in general.

You guys are amazing in how microscopic and self-centric is your vision of the world.
Little mind in little space.
Good luck living in your little box and slowly carry you little home on your shoulders while the world moving forward at the speed of light.
As far as researching my family - 256 members of it were burned in the chambers on Nazy camps. What compensation should I get from Germans and other Nazy alliance nations? And what is will account for for 6 million people including 2 millions children. How much wealth this slaughtered people will be able to create for human race?
And nobody want to compensate... what a pity...

Microscopic and self centric? Big words and completely irrelevant and out of context like everything else you post. Nothing I said or Nixluva said had anything to do with Nazi Germany. We are talking US history and the role of racism. Try and keep up with the conversation.

meloshouldgo wrote:

arkrud wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:- we have not a "race" problem but African American nation problem. We just overlooked that new nation of people get created with specific culture which has no place yet to safe-realize and even cannot yet identifie itself. Racism is also there but this is not the major issue.

I'm sorry but you're going to have to more clearly explain this statement. I can't understand what you're trying to say here. What do you mean by "African American nation problem"? What do you mean by "new nation of people created with specific culture which has no place"?

I'm really not sure what you are saying and want you to elaborate on these points.

Every nation need place to realize it suverenity. It may be independent country or cultural enclave inside multi-national country.
It can be territorial or just cultural identity.
I believe that Afro-Americans are a new nation in the process of self-realization.
There are clearly many people of African race who are not African Americans while leaving in USA. They are representing other nations - like Iruba, Nigerians, etc.
All of then can be a subject of racism. But for African Americans it is obviously more to it.
American nation is a mix of emigrants from all over the world who came here at their own will and many with no intentions to maintain their national identity but rather became American nationals politically and culturally. It is not true however for many people who are there not by their will or were there before colonization like Native Americans and Northers People. They want to maintain their national identity separate from US Americans. And they have all rights to do so.
Same true for African Americans. But I think they just start to realize this national identity.
I think the whole American society will need to realize and embrace it. But this process is complicated and just starting.
It is definitely bigger that this Trump-no-Trump distractions.

WOW! You have a lot of concepts in your post. To simplify things from my perspective I won't try to address all of your points. Let me just say this, African Americans have ALWAYS been part of the fabric of this country! Even when we weren't considered to be so.

AA's have fought in every war this country ever fought. After gaining freedom AA's could've taken violent revenge on a massive scale but in fact that was relatively rare! All AA's ever wanted was to be treated fairly and with respect and to pursue the American Dream!

There was NEVER any justification for violence and oppression inflicted upon AA's. The restraint under the circumstances is a badge of honor and a rebuke to this nation that they were treated so poorly for so long. For what reason were AA's denied their rights or mistreated??? There is no reason other than pure evil and greed.

To this very day this country has never fully lived up to the debt they owe AA's. There would be no America as we know it without AA's. Our story is inextricably intertwined with the history of this country. We are America just as much if not more than most since we gave all for this country and received so little of the spoils of success we helped create. If you don't know what I'm talking about then go look up the many resources on how much AA's contributed to the fortunes of this country.

This is all fair and true.
My question is how you identify yourself and AA people inside America - as a unique nation which need to be treated as such or you want to dissolve into American nation which has no concept or race, nationality, and cultural identity other that American? You cannot have it both ways - it is the choice to be made.
As far as someone owe something to somebody I do not believe in this.
I owe nothing to any nation and no nation owe anything to me.
I rely only on myself and owe only what I managed to achieve.
And I give same right to every other human being to do same.
If you look at the history of the world no nation that was enslaved, murdered, tortured, and displaced get their debt paid off by anybody.
There is no fairness in history. Until oppressed get on right side of the gun they get nothing back.

African Americans didn't choose to be set apart! That was imposed upon them and to a large degree still goes on. AA's wanted to live in a colorblind society but it was the White majority that did not want it. You really don't know or understand the dynamics of race in this country. There is much I could teach you about the TRUTH of this country but you have to want to know the truth.

Natives were mistreated but did receive some recompense and land of their own! Japanese Americans that were wrongfully held in concentration camps received recompense. This country became great largely off the backs of African Slaves and all they did was kick us in the teeth!

Just so we're clear AA's are a large part of the identity and culture of America you can't separate us out of history and have the same country. There's no facet of what made America what it is that doesn't have a connection to the African slaves. That includes the Revolution and the Constitution. Everything was based off of the system of slavery and how that allowed this country to become great.

OK
So all wealth America has is build by slaves...
The rest of the people were just a bunch of cowboys drinking in saloons...
Now what? They should go back to Europe from were they unlawfully came to grab the land, kill and enslave people, and burn the crosses...
And leave everything they grab to local and displaced people to restore the historical fairness.
Obviously it is absurd.
No one has power and right to separate people in any kind of groups.
And it is not needed as they separating themselves without anyone help.
What Native and Japaneses receive is a joke comparing to all dignity that was taking away from them. Not only dignity, everything.
And they will not get it back ever. Even if the whole world will want to give it back to them.
Its gone and not returnable. Last year snow.
The history of the human kind is the history of genocide, destruction, wars, oppression, and injustice.
This how we came around. All of us.
And as we will continue to berry our had in the past and finding enemies and animosities we will never get out of it.
Time to give everyone the clean slate and leave together as one.

Like I said you really have no clue about this subject. I'm my family historian and in my research I've had to also research the family of the people who enslaved my ancestors. I have extensive records on every descendent from the man who enslaved my people. All the land and profits made going back 258 years.

In the census records they actually did detailed financial statements so I have access to just how much money they made off my ancestors hard work. I have copies of the actual record of purchase of my ancestor back in 1758! I have a nearly complete record of births and deaths from that time to the present and I can tell you it is life changing to see it all organized into a coherent record.

I'm planning to visit the area where my ancestors slaved away on plantations and visit the graves. I hope to also find where they may have buried my original ancestors back before they marked the graves of slaves. I can tell you that it's not time to just "give everyone a clean slate and live together as one". This isn't ancient history! I've got relatives still living that lived much of this horrible history.

His challenge is not a lack of understanding, it's indifference, lack of respect for others and a single minded need to rationalize anything that benefits him, however remotely into an absolute positive. It's not an uncommon combination in general.

You guys are amazing in how microscopic and self-centric is your vision of the world.
Little mind in little space.
Good luck living in your little box and slowly carry you little home on your shoulders while the world moving forward at the speed of light.
As far as researching my family - 256 members of it were burned in the chambers on Nazy camps. What compensation should I get from Germans and other Nazy alliance nations? And what is will account for for 6 million people including 2 millions children. How much wealth this slaughtered people will be able to create for human race?
And nobody want to compensate... what a pity...

Microscopic and self centric? Big words and completely irrelevant and out of context like everything else you post. Nothing I said or Nixluva said had anything to do with Nazi Germany. We are talking US history and the role of racism. Try and keep up with the conversation.

Basically thinking more about it I have to agree that anything I can think of about this matter is irrelevant.
The historical consequences between a group of slave owners and former slaves in US south is not an important matter for absolute majority of the people of the world and absolute majority of Americans who have nothing to do with this.
I would support any reparations if they are not paid from my pocket.
My taxes however can be used for it as this money are lost regardless.
The monetary compensations are nice to have a party and celebrate but they will not compensate anything that really matters.
Hopefully the compensation will be used for good deeds and stick around.
As per Jews, we do not need any help and reparation. I found them degrading. Just leave us alone and we will get all we need and more.
We knew how to create and maintain any kind of wealth - intellectual, moral , and material.
We do not need any bones from anyone table - we will make our own sup.

meloshouldgo wrote:

arkrud wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:- we have not a "race" problem but African American nation problem. We just overlooked that new nation of people get created with specific culture which has no place yet to safe-realize and even cannot yet identifie itself. Racism is also there but this is not the major issue.

I'm sorry but you're going to have to more clearly explain this statement. I can't understand what you're trying to say here. What do you mean by "African American nation problem"? What do you mean by "new nation of people created with specific culture which has no place"?

I'm really not sure what you are saying and want you to elaborate on these points.

Every nation need place to realize it suverenity. It may be independent country or cultural enclave inside multi-national country.
It can be territorial or just cultural identity.
I believe that Afro-Americans are a new nation in the process of self-realization.
There are clearly many people of African race who are not African Americans while leaving in USA. They are representing other nations - like Iruba, Nigerians, etc.
All of then can be a subject of racism. But for African Americans it is obviously more to it.
American nation is a mix of emigrants from all over the world who came here at their own will and many with no intentions to maintain their national identity but rather became American nationals politically and culturally. It is not true however for many people who are there not by their will or were there before colonization like Native Americans and Northers People. They want to maintain their national identity separate from US Americans. And they have all rights to do so.
Same true for African Americans. But I think they just start to realize this national identity.
I think the whole American society will need to realize and embrace it. But this process is complicated and just starting.
It is definitely bigger that this Trump-no-Trump distractions.

WOW! You have a lot of concepts in your post. To simplify things from my perspective I won't try to address all of your points. Let me just say this, African Americans have ALWAYS been part of the fabric of this country! Even when we weren't considered to be so.

AA's have fought in every war this country ever fought. After gaining freedom AA's could've taken violent revenge on a massive scale but in fact that was relatively rare! All AA's ever wanted was to be treated fairly and with respect and to pursue the American Dream!

There was NEVER any justification for violence and oppression inflicted upon AA's. The restraint under the circumstances is a badge of honor and a rebuke to this nation that they were treated so poorly for so long. For what reason were AA's denied their rights or mistreated??? There is no reason other than pure evil and greed.

To this very day this country has never fully lived up to the debt they owe AA's. There would be no America as we know it without AA's. Our story is inextricably intertwined with the history of this country. We are America just as much if not more than most since we gave all for this country and received so little of the spoils of success we helped create. If you don't know what I'm talking about then go look up the many resources on how much AA's contributed to the fortunes of this country.

This is all fair and true.
My question is how you identify yourself and AA people inside America - as a unique nation which need to be treated as such or you want to dissolve into American nation which has no concept or race, nationality, and cultural identity other that American? You cannot have it both ways - it is the choice to be made.
As far as someone owe something to somebody I do not believe in this.
I owe nothing to any nation and no nation owe anything to me.
I rely only on myself and owe only what I managed to achieve.
And I give same right to every other human being to do same.
If you look at the history of the world no nation that was enslaved, murdered, tortured, and displaced get their debt paid off by anybody.
There is no fairness in history. Until oppressed get on right side of the gun they get nothing back.

African Americans didn't choose to be set apart! That was imposed upon them and to a large degree still goes on. AA's wanted to live in a colorblind society but it was the White majority that did not want it. You really don't know or understand the dynamics of race in this country. There is much I could teach you about the TRUTH of this country but you have to want to know the truth.

Natives were mistreated but did receive some recompense and land of their own! Japanese Americans that were wrongfully held in concentration camps received recompense. This country became great largely off the backs of African Slaves and all they did was kick us in the teeth!

Just so we're clear AA's are a large part of the identity and culture of America you can't separate us out of history and have the same country. There's no facet of what made America what it is that doesn't have a connection to the African slaves. That includes the Revolution and the Constitution. Everything was based off of the system of slavery and how that allowed this country to become great.

OK
So all wealth America has is build by slaves...
The rest of the people were just a bunch of cowboys drinking in saloons...
Now what? They should go back to Europe from were they unlawfully came to grab the land, kill and enslave people, and burn the crosses...
And leave everything they grab to local and displaced people to restore the historical fairness.
Obviously it is absurd.
No one has power and right to separate people in any kind of groups.
And it is not needed as they separating themselves without anyone help.
What Native and Japaneses receive is a joke comparing to all dignity that was taking away from them. Not only dignity, everything.
And they will not get it back ever. Even if the whole world will want to give it back to them.
Its gone and not returnable. Last year snow.
The history of the human kind is the history of genocide, destruction, wars, oppression, and injustice.
This how we came around. All of us.
And as we will continue to berry our had in the past and finding enemies and animosities we will never get out of it.
Time to give everyone the clean slate and leave together as one.

Like I said you really have no clue about this subject. I'm my family historian and in my research I've had to also research the family of the people who enslaved my ancestors. I have extensive records on every descendent from the man who enslaved my people. All the land and profits made going back 258 years.

In the census records they actually did detailed financial statements so I have access to just how much money they made off my ancestors hard work. I have copies of the actual record of purchase of my ancestor back in 1758! I have a nearly complete record of births and deaths from that time to the present and I can tell you it is life changing to see it all organized into a coherent record.

I'm planning to visit the area where my ancestors slaved away on plantations and visit the graves. I hope to also find where they may have buried my original ancestors back before they marked the graves of slaves. I can tell you that it's not time to just "give everyone a clean slate and live together as one". This isn't ancient history! I've got relatives still living that lived much of this horrible history.

His challenge is not a lack of understanding, it's indifference, lack of respect for others and a single minded need to rationalize anything that benefits him, however remotely into an absolute positive. It's not an uncommon combination in general.

You guys are amazing in how microscopic and self-centric is your vision of the world.
Little mind in little space.
Good luck living in your little box and slowly carry you little home on your shoulders while the world moving forward at the speed of light.
As far as researching my family - 256 members of it were burned in the chambers on Nazy camps. What compensation should I get from Germans and other Nazy alliance nations? And what is will account for for 6 million people including 2 millions children. How much wealth this slaughtered people will be able to create for human race?
And nobody want to compensate... what a pity...

Microscopic and self centric? Big words and completely irrelevant and out of context like everything else you post. Nothing I said or Nixluva said had anything to do with Nazi Germany. We are talking US history and the role of racism. Try and keep up with the conversation.

Obviously the Jewish Holocaust was horrific. I don't know much about the aftermath and what Germany did to try and apologize for what happened but I do know that this country has not really ever dealt with the issue of Slavery and the wage theft, murder, oppression etc for hundreds of years!!!

In this election we heard a lot about the plight of the White Working Class. They want a return to the good old days. What about AA's? There NEVER were any Good Old Days for AA's. As they say we're still waiting for our 40 Acres and a Mule so to speak.

My Great, Great Grandfather and his children were slaves. A month after the Civil War ended the Freedman's Beureau ordered the former slaves to sign Labor Contracts with the former Slaveholders!
They did not want to. They wanted the land they were promised. Not free land but land they could lease and eventually buy!!!

The Slaveholders convinced the government not to do this. So my Great, Great Grandfather who like most slaves was illiterate signed the work contract with the very man who had enslaved him and all of my ancestors. This was in 1865. By 1870 my Great, Great Grandfather came to own 212 Acres, a home and a Sugar Cane Mill. He employed other people. Unfortunately they lost it all in the 1920's during the Great Depression.

nixluva wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

arkrud wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:- we have not a "race" problem but African American nation problem. We just overlooked that new nation of people get created with specific culture which has no place yet to safe-realize and even cannot yet identifie itself. Racism is also there but this is not the major issue.

I'm sorry but you're going to have to more clearly explain this statement. I can't understand what you're trying to say here. What do you mean by "African American nation problem"? What do you mean by "new nation of people created with specific culture which has no place"?

I'm really not sure what you are saying and want you to elaborate on these points.

Every nation need place to realize it suverenity. It may be independent country or cultural enclave inside multi-national country.
It can be territorial or just cultural identity.
I believe that Afro-Americans are a new nation in the process of self-realization.
There are clearly many people of African race who are not African Americans while leaving in USA. They are representing other nations - like Iruba, Nigerians, etc.
All of then can be a subject of racism. But for African Americans it is obviously more to it.
American nation is a mix of emigrants from all over the world who came here at their own will and many with no intentions to maintain their national identity but rather became American nationals politically and culturally. It is not true however for many people who are there not by their will or were there before colonization like Native Americans and Northers People. They want to maintain their national identity separate from US Americans. And they have all rights to do so.
Same true for African Americans. But I think they just start to realize this national identity.
I think the whole American society will need to realize and embrace it. But this process is complicated and just starting.
It is definitely bigger that this Trump-no-Trump distractions.

WOW! You have a lot of concepts in your post. To simplify things from my perspective I won't try to address all of your points. Let me just say this, African Americans have ALWAYS been part of the fabric of this country! Even when we weren't considered to be so.

AA's have fought in every war this country ever fought. After gaining freedom AA's could've taken violent revenge on a massive scale but in fact that was relatively rare! All AA's ever wanted was to be treated fairly and with respect and to pursue the American Dream!

There was NEVER any justification for violence and oppression inflicted upon AA's. The restraint under the circumstances is a badge of honor and a rebuke to this nation that they were treated so poorly for so long. For what reason were AA's denied their rights or mistreated??? There is no reason other than pure evil and greed.

To this very day this country has never fully lived up to the debt they owe AA's. There would be no America as we know it without AA's. Our story is inextricably intertwined with the history of this country. We are America just as much if not more than most since we gave all for this country and received so little of the spoils of success we helped create. If you don't know what I'm talking about then go look up the many resources on how much AA's contributed to the fortunes of this country.

This is all fair and true.
My question is how you identify yourself and AA people inside America - as a unique nation which need to be treated as such or you want to dissolve into American nation which has no concept or race, nationality, and cultural identity other that American? You cannot have it both ways - it is the choice to be made.
As far as someone owe something to somebody I do not believe in this.
I owe nothing to any nation and no nation owe anything to me.
I rely only on myself and owe only what I managed to achieve.
And I give same right to every other human being to do same.
If you look at the history of the world no nation that was enslaved, murdered, tortured, and displaced get their debt paid off by anybody.
There is no fairness in history. Until oppressed get on right side of the gun they get nothing back.

African Americans didn't choose to be set apart! That was imposed upon them and to a large degree still goes on. AA's wanted to live in a colorblind society but it was the White majority that did not want it. You really don't know or understand the dynamics of race in this country. There is much I could teach you about the TRUTH of this country but you have to want to know the truth.

Natives were mistreated but did receive some recompense and land of their own! Japanese Americans that were wrongfully held in concentration camps received recompense. This country became great largely off the backs of African Slaves and all they did was kick us in the teeth!

Just so we're clear AA's are a large part of the identity and culture of America you can't separate us out of history and have the same country. There's no facet of what made America what it is that doesn't have a connection to the African slaves. That includes the Revolution and the Constitution. Everything was based off of the system of slavery and how that allowed this country to become great.

OK
So all wealth America has is build by slaves...
The rest of the people were just a bunch of cowboys drinking in saloons...
Now what? They should go back to Europe from were they unlawfully came to grab the land, kill and enslave people, and burn the crosses...
And leave everything they grab to local and displaced people to restore the historical fairness.
Obviously it is absurd.
No one has power and right to separate people in any kind of groups.
And it is not needed as they separating themselves without anyone help.
What Native and Japaneses receive is a joke comparing to all dignity that was taking away from them. Not only dignity, everything.
And they will not get it back ever. Even if the whole world will want to give it back to them.
Its gone and not returnable. Last year snow.
The history of the human kind is the history of genocide, destruction, wars, oppression, and injustice.
This how we came around. All of us.
And as we will continue to berry our had in the past and finding enemies and animosities we will never get out of it.
Time to give everyone the clean slate and leave together as one.

Like I said you really have no clue about this subject. I'm my family historian and in my research I've had to also research the family of the people who enslaved my ancestors. I have extensive records on every descendent from the man who enslaved my people. All the land and profits made going back 258 years.

In the census records they actually did detailed financial statements so I have access to just how much money they made off my ancestors hard work. I have copies of the actual record of purchase of my ancestor back in 1758! I have a nearly complete record of births and deaths from that time to the present and I can tell you it is life changing to see it all organized into a coherent record.

I'm planning to visit the area where my ancestors slaved away on plantations and visit the graves. I hope to also find where they may have buried my original ancestors back before they marked the graves of slaves. I can tell you that it's not time to just "give everyone a clean slate and live together as one". This isn't ancient history! I've got relatives still living that lived much of this horrible history.

His challenge is not a lack of understanding, it's indifference, lack of respect for others and a single minded need to rationalize anything that benefits him, however remotely into an absolute positive. It's not an uncommon combination in general.

You guys are amazing in how microscopic and self-centric is your vision of the world.
Little mind in little space.
Good luck living in your little box and slowly carry you little home on your shoulders while the world moving forward at the speed of light.
As far as researching my family - 256 members of it were burned in the chambers on Nazy camps. What compensation should I get from Germans and other Nazy alliance nations? And what is will account for for 6 million people including 2 millions children. How much wealth this slaughtered people will be able to create for human race?
And nobody want to compensate... what a pity...

Microscopic and self centric? Big words and completely irrelevant and out of context like everything else you post. Nothing I said or Nixluva said had anything to do with Nazi Germany. We are talking US history and the role of racism. Try and keep up with the conversation.

Obviously the Jewish Holocaust was horrific. I don't know much about the aftermath and what Germany did to try and apologize for what happened but I do know that this country has not really ever dealt with the issue of Slavery and the wage theft, murder, oppression etc for hundreds of years!!!

In this election we heard a lot about the plight of the White Working Class. They want a return to the good old days. What about AA's? There NEVER were any Good Old Days for AA's. As they say we're still waiting for our 40 Acres and a Mule so to speak.

My Great, Great Grandfather and his children were slaves. A month after the Civil War ended the Freedman's Beureau ordered the former slaves to sign Labor Contracts with the former Slaveholders!
They did not want to. They wanted the land they were promised. Not free land but land they could lease and eventually buy!!!

The Slaveholders convinced the government not to do this. So my Great, Great Grandfather who like most slaves was illiterate signed the work contract with the very man who had enslaved him and all of my ancestors. This was in 1865. By 1870 my Great, Great Grandfather came to own 212 Acres, a home and a Sugar Cane Mill. He employed other people. Unfortunately they lost it all in the 1920's during the Great Depression.

Nix - you need to educate yourself more about world history... at least recent.
It will give you a good perspective about you own history and help to understand what are most of the American people are about.
Most of Americans came from other countries and cultures long after slavery was abolished.
I agree that they must study the history of their new home but it should go both ways.

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

arkrud wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:- we have not a "race" problem but African American nation problem. We just overlooked that new nation of people get created with specific culture which has no place yet to safe-realize and even cannot yet identifie itself. Racism is also there but this is not the major issue.

I'm sorry but you're going to have to more clearly explain this statement. I can't understand what you're trying to say here. What do you mean by "African American nation problem"? What do you mean by "new nation of people created with specific culture which has no place"?

I'm really not sure what you are saying and want you to elaborate on these points.

Every nation need place to realize it suverenity. It may be independent country or cultural enclave inside multi-national country.
It can be territorial or just cultural identity.
I believe that Afro-Americans are a new nation in the process of self-realization.
There are clearly many people of African race who are not African Americans while leaving in USA. They are representing other nations - like Iruba, Nigerians, etc.
All of then can be a subject of racism. But for African Americans it is obviously more to it.
American nation is a mix of emigrants from all over the world who came here at their own will and many with no intentions to maintain their national identity but rather became American nationals politically and culturally. It is not true however for many people who are there not by their will or were there before colonization like Native Americans and Northers People. They want to maintain their national identity separate from US Americans. And they have all rights to do so.
Same true for African Americans. But I think they just start to realize this national identity.
I think the whole American society will need to realize and embrace it. But this process is complicated and just starting.
It is definitely bigger that this Trump-no-Trump distractions.

WOW! You have a lot of concepts in your post. To simplify things from my perspective I won't try to address all of your points. Let me just say this, African Americans have ALWAYS been part of the fabric of this country! Even when we weren't considered to be so.

AA's have fought in every war this country ever fought. After gaining freedom AA's could've taken violent revenge on a massive scale but in fact that was relatively rare! All AA's ever wanted was to be treated fairly and with respect and to pursue the American Dream!

There was NEVER any justification for violence and oppression inflicted upon AA's. The restraint under the circumstances is a badge of honor and a rebuke to this nation that they were treated so poorly for so long. For what reason were AA's denied their rights or mistreated??? There is no reason other than pure evil and greed.

To this very day this country has never fully lived up to the debt they owe AA's. There would be no America as we know it without AA's. Our story is inextricably intertwined with the history of this country. We are America just as much if not more than most since we gave all for this country and received so little of the spoils of success we helped create. If you don't know what I'm talking about then go look up the many resources on how much AA's contributed to the fortunes of this country.

This is all fair and true.
My question is how you identify yourself and AA people inside America - as a unique nation which need to be treated as such or you want to dissolve into American nation which has no concept or race, nationality, and cultural identity other that American? You cannot have it both ways - it is the choice to be made.
As far as someone owe something to somebody I do not believe in this.
I owe nothing to any nation and no nation owe anything to me.
I rely only on myself and owe only what I managed to achieve.
And I give same right to every other human being to do same.
If you look at the history of the world no nation that was enslaved, murdered, tortured, and displaced get their debt paid off by anybody.
There is no fairness in history. Until oppressed get on right side of the gun they get nothing back.

African Americans didn't choose to be set apart! That was imposed upon them and to a large degree still goes on. AA's wanted to live in a colorblind society but it was the White majority that did not want it. You really don't know or understand the dynamics of race in this country. There is much I could teach you about the TRUTH of this country but you have to want to know the truth.

Natives were mistreated but did receive some recompense and land of their own! Japanese Americans that were wrongfully held in concentration camps received recompense. This country became great largely off the backs of African Slaves and all they did was kick us in the teeth!

Just so we're clear AA's are a large part of the identity and culture of America you can't separate us out of history and have the same country. There's no facet of what made America what it is that doesn't have a connection to the African slaves. That includes the Revolution and the Constitution. Everything was based off of the system of slavery and how that allowed this country to become great.

OK
So all wealth America has is build by slaves...
The rest of the people were just a bunch of cowboys drinking in saloons...
Now what? They should go back to Europe from were they unlawfully came to grab the land, kill and enslave people, and burn the crosses...
And leave everything they grab to local and displaced people to restore the historical fairness.
Obviously it is absurd.
No one has power and right to separate people in any kind of groups.
And it is not needed as they separating themselves without anyone help.
What Native and Japaneses receive is a joke comparing to all dignity that was taking away from them. Not only dignity, everything.
And they will not get it back ever. Even if the whole world will want to give it back to them.
Its gone and not returnable. Last year snow.
The history of the human kind is the history of genocide, destruction, wars, oppression, and injustice.
This how we came around. All of us.
And as we will continue to berry our had in the past and finding enemies and animosities we will never get out of it.
Time to give everyone the clean slate and leave together as one.

Like I said you really have no clue about this subject. I'm my family historian and in my research I've had to also research the family of the people who enslaved my ancestors. I have extensive records on every descendent from the man who enslaved my people. All the land and profits made going back 258 years.

In the census records they actually did detailed financial statements so I have access to just how much money they made off my ancestors hard work. I have copies of the actual record of purchase of my ancestor back in 1758! I have a nearly complete record of births and deaths from that time to the present and I can tell you it is life changing to see it all organized into a coherent record.

I'm planning to visit the area where my ancestors slaved away on plantations and visit the graves. I hope to also find where they may have buried my original ancestors back before they marked the graves of slaves. I can tell you that it's not time to just "give everyone a clean slate and live together as one". This isn't ancient history! I've got relatives still living that lived much of this horrible history.

His challenge is not a lack of understanding, it's indifference, lack of respect for others and a single minded need to rationalize anything that benefits him, however remotely into an absolute positive. It's not an uncommon combination in general.

You guys are amazing in how microscopic and self-centric is your vision of the world.
Little mind in little space.
Good luck living in your little box and slowly carry you little home on your shoulders while the world moving forward at the speed of light.
As far as researching my family - 256 members of it were burned in the chambers on Nazy camps. What compensation should I get from Germans and other Nazy alliance nations? And what is will account for for 6 million people including 2 millions children. How much wealth this slaughtered people will be able to create for human race?
And nobody want to compensate... what a pity...

Microscopic and self centric? Big words and completely irrelevant and out of context like everything else you post. Nothing I said or Nixluva said had anything to do with Nazi Germany. We are talking US history and the role of racism. Try and keep up with the conversation.

Obviously the Jewish Holocaust was horrific. I don't know much about the aftermath and what Germany did to try and apologize for what happened but I do know that this country has not really ever dealt with the issue of Slavery and the wage theft, murder, oppression etc for hundreds of years!!!

In this election we heard a lot about the plight of the White Working Class. They want a return to the good old days. What about AA's? There NEVER were any Good Old Days for AA's. As they say we're still waiting for our 40 Acres and a Mule so to speak.

My Great, Great Grandfather and his children were slaves. A month after the Civil War ended the Freedman's Beureau ordered the former slaves to sign Labor Contracts with the former Slaveholders!
They did not want to. They wanted the land they were promised. Not free land but land they could lease and eventually buy!!!

The Slaveholders convinced the government not to do this. So my Great, Great Grandfather who like most slaves was illiterate signed the work contract with the very man who had enslaved him and all of my ancestors. This was in 1865. By 1870 my Great, Great Grandfather came to own 212 Acres, a home and a Sugar Cane Mill. He employed other people. Unfortunately they lost it all in the 1920's during the Great Depression.

Nix - you need to educate yourself more about world history... at least recent.
It will give you a good perspective about you own history and help to understand what are most of the American people are about.
Most of Americans came from other countries and cultures long after slavery was abolished.
I agree that they must study the history of their new home but it should go both ways.

Forgive me for being more focused on the U.S. and the history of my people and this country! SMDH!
I'm fully aware of the history of this country and immigration into this country. What you and most of the people who came here after slavery may not realize is that you benefited from the period of Slavery but the only people who have not are the descendants of those slaves!!!

Why is it OK for you to be smug and disinterested in how this country became great and the benefits you now enjoy came at a price. A price paid by my ancestors!!! You should be the very type of person most concerned with the injustices done to Natives and AA's. Your callous indifference is not a good look for you!!!

arkrud wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:http://www.rawstory.com/2016/12/heres-how-the-us-empire-will-devolve-into-fascism-and-then-collapse-according-to-science/

Sociologist who predicted the collapse of the Soviet Union and 9/11 attacks warns that American global power will collapse under Donald Trump.

Johan Galtung, a Norwegian professor at the University of Hawaii and Transcend Peace University, first predicted in 2000 that the “U.S. empire” would wither away within 25 years, but he moved up that forecast by five years with the election of President George W. Bush, reported Motherboard.

Now, nearly 17 years later, Galtung predicts that decline could come even quicker under a Trump administration.

“He blunts contradictions with Russia, possibly with China, and seems to do also with North Korea,” Galtung said. “But he sharpens contradictions inside the USA.”

Galtung’s biographer credits the sociologist and mathematician with correctly predicting the 1978 Iranian revolution; China’s Tiananmen Square uprising in 1989; the collapse of the Soviet empire in 1989; the economic crises of 1987, 2008 and 2011; and the 9/11 attacks.

His predictions are based on a model comparing the rise and fall of 10 historical empires, and decades ago Galtung developed a theory of decline based on “synchronizing and mutually reinforcing contradictions.”

For example, Galtung’s model identified five key structural contradictions in Soviet society that he predicted would lead to its fragmentation unless the U.S.S.R. completely transformed itself.

Galtung predicted the tensions between the repressed Soviet working class and the wealthier “bourgeoisie” with nothing to buy would lead to economic stagnation, and those economic forces combined with the push for more freedom of expression, autonomy and freedom of movement would — eventually did — pull down the Soviet Union.

He predicted in his 2009 book, “The Fall of the American Empire — and then What?” that the U.S. was plagued by 15 internal contradictions that would end its global power by 2020, and Galtung warned that phase of the decline would usher in a period of reactionary fascism.

American fascism would spring from its capacity for global violence, a vision of exceptionalism, a belief in an inevitable and final war between good and evil, the cult of a strong state leading that battle, and a cult of the “strong leader.”

Galtung said all of those elements presented themselves during the Bush era, but he fears fascist tendencies could sharpen under Trump as those cultists lash out in disbelief at the loss of American power.

The sociologist identified unsustainable economic, social, military and political contradictions that would eventually topple the U.S. as a world power.

Overproduction relative to demand, unemployment and the increasing costs of climate change would weaken the U.S. economy, according to his model.

Galtung also predicted that rising tensions between the U.S., NATO and its military allies, coupled with the increasing economic costs of war and the political conflicts between the U.S., United Nations and the European Union, would also diminish American power.

“The collapse has two faces,” Galtung said. “Other countries refuse to be ‘good allies: and the USA has to do the killing themselves, by bombing from high altitudes, drones steered by computer from an office, Special Forces killing all over the place. Both are happening today, except for Northern Europe, which supports these wars, for now. That will probably not continue beyond 2020, so I stand by that deadline.”

Rising tensions between America’s Judeo-Christian majority and Islam and other religious minorities created cultural contradictions, which are further sharpened by social contradictions between the so-called American dream and the reality that fewer Americans can achieve prosperity through hard work.

The decline of the U.S. as a global power would probably rip apart its domestic cohesion, Galtung said, which could potentially reshape American borders.

“As a trans-border structure the collapse I am thinking of is global, not domestic,” Galtung said. “But it may have domestic repercussion, like white supremacists or even minorities like Hawaiians, Inuits, indigenous Americans and black Americans doing the same, maybe arguing for the United States as community, confederation rather than a ‘union.’”

That breakup could potentially bring a revitalization of the American republic, Galtung said — if Trump makes a surprising shift in his persona and policies.

“If he manages to apologize deeply to all the groups he has insulted and turn foreign policy from U.S. interventions — soon 250 after Jefferson in Libya 1801 — and not use wars (killing more than 20 million in 37 countries after 1945): A major revitalization!” Galtung said. “Certainly making ‘America Great Again.’ We’ll see.”

Interesting read. I commented earlier on the Hillary thread that the doorway to Fascism was now open. Already we are seeing fringe elements gaining ideological ground in mainstream thought process.

This professor is all over the place... talking about sitting to much on the campus.
He need to go on some good cross-country trip. Or go back to Scandinavia and get some Sauna and Vodka to come his mind down.

Unlike some people who change the subject to Nazi Germany when called out on their own tone deaf garbage posts, the professor has stayed on subject the entire length of the article.

nixluva wrote:

djsunyc wrote:

The 1st thing I thought about was why didn't Kanye wear something better for such a meeting? I know that's kind of small but it just bothered me seeing him with a sweat shirt on like that. Anyway Kanye is crazy 😜 so...

http://verysmartbrothas.com/kanye-west-is-what-happens-when-whiteness-becomes-the-standard/

Admittedly, reminding myself that Whiteness isn’t any sort of standard to measure myself by is a concept I still wrestle with. Even today, as I’m acknowledging the existence of White privilege, of White supremacy, and of the creation of Whiteness, I have to consciously urge myself not to allow it to infect me. But it’s so pervasive, so ingrained, so subtle, so sneaky, that despite my vigilance, it still sometimes finds a way to seep in. And sometimes I receive reminders that, despite my best efforts to root it out, morsels of it still lurk.

Perhaps the best example I can provide of this struggle is a professional one. Clutch Magazine was the first platform to pay me to write something for them. My first regular paid column was with Madame Noire. My first appearance in a print magazine was an Essence Magazine photoshoot and feature. My first paid editing gig was for a digital magazine spearheaded by The August Wilson Center for African American Culture. Several months after that, I took an editing and writing job at EBONY.com; eventually leading to my own monthly page in EBONY Magazine. I’ve also written for, partnered with, and been honored by The Root, and VSB has been featured in The Grio, JET Magazine, Black Enterprise and several other Black publications.

This is several years worth of validation; of Black platforms and editors and publishers and audiences appreciating my work. And I’ve greatly appreciated and valued this appreciation. It has built me, sustained me, and enabled me to grow and survive. But I’d be dishonest if I didn’t admit that what’s transpired in the last 18 months or so — where multiple mainstream (read: White) publications have asked me to work for them; some even offering to create a job for me — has been a different type of validation. Not necessarily better. But it feels different, like I’ve been able to crash through some invisible psychic threshold, and I wonder how much of that is due to me subconsciously valuing the attention of the mainstream platforms more than the Black ones.

To be fair, this value distinction does have practical roots. The mainstream platforms tend to be much larger, which means a larger audience, which means more people will read my work, which (often) means more opportunities for more work. Also, some of these larger publications are able to pay more because they have larger budgets. Which matters to me a great deal because writing for a living means I literally write for a living. I have no other career to fall back on. We (VSB) have a few revenue streams, but I pretty much eat what I write. A piece in GQ or The New York Times isn’t just a cool byline. It’s a car payment. Christmas presents. A new suit. Six month’s worth of diapers. An electric and a cable bill, which enables me to have a wifi connection at home, which enables me to work at home to pay for that wifi connection. (And, well, I founded and own a Black publication too. So regardless of who’s paying me to write for them, I will always still possess and work in a Black space.)
That said, this validation isn’t completely about financial pragmatism. If all things were equal — if the Black publications paid the same as the larger mainstream publications did — I believe I’d still notice and appreciate the mainstream attention in a different way. And this stirs at and upsets me. But I’m not quite sure what to do about it. I’m already hyperaware of its presence — which in theory is enough to rid myself of it — and it’s still there.

So, I’m going to stop right here and share something with you all. This piece was initially intended to segue into my thoughts on some of the responses to the general lack-of-response to the sexual harassment allegations facing Casey Affleck; a favorite to win an Oscar for best actor for his performance in Manchester By the Sea. Affleck’s situation has been used as evidence that we (Black people) unnecessarily torpedoed Nate Parker and Birth of a Nation. “Why” the argument goes “did we do that to Nate Parker when men like Woody Allen and Roman Polanski and Sean Penn and now Casey Affleck are still celebrated?” In a vacuum, this seems like a sober and logical case. “They” were able to do something, so why can’t we do it too? And it remains sober and logical until you realize that it centers Whiteness as the standard, essentially asking “Why aren’t we more like these White people?” Yes, it’s true that we collectively gave men like Parker and Bill Cosby more scrutiny than White people generally did/do when famous White men commit abhorrent acts. But that doesn’t make us wrong. It actually makes us right. History has proven, time and again, that leaning on Whiteness for morality is like asking the sun for some shade. White people just elected Donald Fucking Trump President of the United States, and this is who you’re modeling your values and mores on?

Anyway, I planned to expound on that a bit more. But since I began writing, I learned that Kanye West — bodyguards and new blonde do in tow — had a private meeting this morning with Donald Trump. And I decided to change course. Because Kanye, unfortunately, is what an unchecked and unfettered need to be validated by Whiteness looks like — quite literally, actually — and his descent expresses this better than any of my words ever could. This is what it does. This is how powerful and dangerous and corrosive it is. It’s vicious enough to make a man look in the mirror — one of the most famous and most influential Black men in the world — and see nothing but what he believes White people see when they see him. This is past the White gaze. He’s stuck in an unwinnable maze of Whiteness, where each wall is a funhouse mirror distorting and corrupting his sense of self and space. He is not dead, yet. But he is possessed. And his obsession with Whiteness will continue to gnaw at him — and will eventually devour him whole — unless its exorcised out of him.

Haven't read the article but I think the suggestion is that hacks were not limited to just the Hilary and DNC but rather state level canidates as well.

The intrusions in House races in states including Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Ohio, Illinois, New Mexico and North Carolina can be traced to tens of thousands of pages of documents taken from the D.C.C.C., which shares a Capitol Hill office building with the Democratic National Committee....The seats that Guccifer 2.0 targeted in the document dumps were hardly random: They were some of the most competitive House races in the country.

....In Florida, Guccifer 2.0’s most important partner was an obscure political website run by an anonymous blogger called HelloFLA!, run by a former Florida legislative aide turned Republican lobbyist. The blogger sent direct messages via Twitter to Guccifer 2.0 asking for copies of any additional Florida documents. “I can send you some docs via email,” Guccifer 2.0 replied on Aug. 22....“I don’t think you realize what you gave me,” the blogger said, looking at the costly internal D.C.C.C. political research that he had just been provided. “This is probably worth millions of dollars.”

O M G

Not my own summary but one person's take:

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/12/russia-ran-most-epic-rat****ing-operation-history-year

The basic story here is simple: the Russians hacked, the media gave the revelations big play, and Republicans gleefully made use of the Russian agitprop. Altogether, the Russians released hacked documents from four different sources:

• DNC


• DCCC


• The Clinton Foundation


• John Podesta

But nothing was ever released from any Republican sources—despite the fact that, according to the New York Times, the Russians had hacked the RNC and possibly other Republican accounts as well. If I had to guess, I'd say there's a good chance they hacked a few people at the Trump Organization too. So here's where we are:

• The Russians ran a very sophisticated operation designed to hack into both US government servers and the servers of US political organizations.


• They released only hacked documents from Democratic organizations. Republicans were left alone.


• The intelligence community told high-ranking leaders of both parties what was going on, but Republicans flatly opposed any public acknowledgment of what was happening.


• Republicans cheerfully made use of all the hacked material, even though they knew exactly where it came from.

At this point, you need to be willfully blind to pretend this was anything other than what it was: a rat****ing operation on an epic scale aimed squarely at Hillary Clinton and the Democratic Party. And while it was happening, Republicans were happy to play along.

It's inevitable that more details are going to emerge about all this—about both the hacking itself and Republican complicity in making use of the Russian material. This is not something that can be forgiven quickly or easily. Republicans may or may not care about this, but they're going to have live with a smoldering, bitter anger from their Democratic colleagues for a very long time.

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

arkrud wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:- we have not a "race" problem but African American nation problem. We just overlooked that new nation of people get created with specific culture which has no place yet to safe-realize and even cannot yet identifie itself. Racism is also there but this is not the major issue.

I'm sorry but you're going to have to more clearly explain this statement. I can't understand what you're trying to say here. What do you mean by "African American nation problem"? What do you mean by "new nation of people created with specific culture which has no place"?

I'm really not sure what you are saying and want you to elaborate on these points.

Every nation need place to realize it suverenity. It may be independent country or cultural enclave inside multi-national country.
It can be territorial or just cultural identity.
I believe that Afro-Americans are a new nation in the process of self-realization.
There are clearly many people of African race who are not African Americans while leaving in USA. They are representing other nations - like Iruba, Nigerians, etc.
All of then can be a subject of racism. But for African Americans it is obviously more to it.
American nation is a mix of emigrants from all over the world who came here at their own will and many with no intentions to maintain their national identity but rather became American nationals politically and culturally. It is not true however for many people who are there not by their will or were there before colonization like Native Americans and Northers People. They want to maintain their national identity separate from US Americans. And they have all rights to do so.
Same true for African Americans. But I think they just start to realize this national identity.
I think the whole American society will need to realize and embrace it. But this process is complicated and just starting.
It is definitely bigger that this Trump-no-Trump distractions.

WOW! You have a lot of concepts in your post. To simplify things from my perspective I won't try to address all of your points. Let me just say this, African Americans have ALWAYS been part of the fabric of this country! Even when we weren't considered to be so.

AA's have fought in every war this country ever fought. After gaining freedom AA's could've taken violent revenge on a massive scale but in fact that was relatively rare! All AA's ever wanted was to be treated fairly and with respect and to pursue the American Dream!

There was NEVER any justification for violence and oppression inflicted upon AA's. The restraint under the circumstances is a badge of honor and a rebuke to this nation that they were treated so poorly for so long. For what reason were AA's denied their rights or mistreated??? There is no reason other than pure evil and greed.

To this very day this country has never fully lived up to the debt they owe AA's. There would be no America as we know it without AA's. Our story is inextricably intertwined with the history of this country. We are America just as much if not more than most since we gave all for this country and received so little of the spoils of success we helped create. If you don't know what I'm talking about then go look up the many resources on how much AA's contributed to the fortunes of this country.

This is all fair and true.
My question is how you identify yourself and AA people inside America - as a unique nation which need to be treated as such or you want to dissolve into American nation which has no concept or race, nationality, and cultural identity other that American? You cannot have it both ways - it is the choice to be made.
As far as someone owe something to somebody I do not believe in this.
I owe nothing to any nation and no nation owe anything to me.
I rely only on myself and owe only what I managed to achieve.
And I give same right to every other human being to do same.
If you look at the history of the world no nation that was enslaved, murdered, tortured, and displaced get their debt paid off by anybody.
There is no fairness in history. Until oppressed get on right side of the gun they get nothing back.

African Americans didn't choose to be set apart! That was imposed upon them and to a large degree still goes on. AA's wanted to live in a colorblind society but it was the White majority that did not want it. You really don't know or understand the dynamics of race in this country. There is much I could teach you about the TRUTH of this country but you have to want to know the truth.

Natives were mistreated but did receive some recompense and land of their own! Japanese Americans that were wrongfully held in concentration camps received recompense. This country became great largely off the backs of African Slaves and all they did was kick us in the teeth!

Just so we're clear AA's are a large part of the identity and culture of America you can't separate us out of history and have the same country. There's no facet of what made America what it is that doesn't have a connection to the African slaves. That includes the Revolution and the Constitution. Everything was based off of the system of slavery and how that allowed this country to become great.

OK
So all wealth America has is build by slaves...
The rest of the people were just a bunch of cowboys drinking in saloons...
Now what? They should go back to Europe from were they unlawfully came to grab the land, kill and enslave people, and burn the crosses...
And leave everything they grab to local and displaced people to restore the historical fairness.
Obviously it is absurd.
No one has power and right to separate people in any kind of groups.
And it is not needed as they separating themselves without anyone help.
What Native and Japaneses receive is a joke comparing to all dignity that was taking away from them. Not only dignity, everything.
And they will not get it back ever. Even if the whole world will want to give it back to them.
Its gone and not returnable. Last year snow.
The history of the human kind is the history of genocide, destruction, wars, oppression, and injustice.
This how we came around. All of us.
And as we will continue to berry our had in the past and finding enemies and animosities we will never get out of it.
Time to give everyone the clean slate and leave together as one.

Like I said you really have no clue about this subject. I'm my family historian and in my research I've had to also research the family of the people who enslaved my ancestors. I have extensive records on every descendent from the man who enslaved my people. All the land and profits made going back 258 years.

In the census records they actually did detailed financial statements so I have access to just how much money they made off my ancestors hard work. I have copies of the actual record of purchase of my ancestor back in 1758! I have a nearly complete record of births and deaths from that time to the present and I can tell you it is life changing to see it all organized into a coherent record.

I'm planning to visit the area where my ancestors slaved away on plantations and visit the graves. I hope to also find where they may have buried my original ancestors back before they marked the graves of slaves. I can tell you that it's not time to just "give everyone a clean slate and live together as one". This isn't ancient history! I've got relatives still living that lived much of this horrible history.

His challenge is not a lack of understanding, it's indifference, lack of respect for others and a single minded need to rationalize anything that benefits him, however remotely into an absolute positive. It's not an uncommon combination in general.

You guys are amazing in how microscopic and self-centric is your vision of the world.
Little mind in little space.
Good luck living in your little box and slowly carry you little home on your shoulders while the world moving forward at the speed of light.
As far as researching my family - 256 members of it were burned in the chambers on Nazy camps. What compensation should I get from Germans and other Nazy alliance nations? And what is will account for for 6 million people including 2 millions children. How much wealth this slaughtered people will be able to create for human race?
And nobody want to compensate... what a pity...

Microscopic and self centric? Big words and completely irrelevant and out of context like everything else you post. Nothing I said or Nixluva said had anything to do with Nazi Germany. We are talking US history and the role of racism. Try and keep up with the conversation.

Obviously the Jewish Holocaust was horrific. I don't know much about the aftermath and what Germany did to try and apologize for what happened but I do know that this country has not really ever dealt with the issue of Slavery and the wage theft, murder, oppression etc for hundreds of years!!!

In this election we heard a lot about the plight of the White Working Class. They want a return to the good old days. What about AA's? There NEVER were any Good Old Days for AA's. As they say we're still waiting for our 40 Acres and a Mule so to speak.

My Great, Great Grandfather and his children were slaves. A month after the Civil War ended the Freedman's Beureau ordered the former slaves to sign Labor Contracts with the former Slaveholders!
They did not want to. They wanted the land they were promised. Not free land but land they could lease and eventually buy!!!

The Slaveholders convinced the government not to do this. So my Great, Great Grandfather who like most slaves was illiterate signed the work contract with the very man who had enslaved him and all of my ancestors. This was in 1865. By 1870 my Great, Great Grandfather came to own 212 Acres, a home and a Sugar Cane Mill. He employed other people. Unfortunately they lost it all in the 1920's during the Great Depression.

Nix - you need to educate yourself more about world history... at least recent.
It will give you a good perspective about you own history and help to understand what are most of the American people are about.
Most of Americans came from other countries and cultures long after slavery was abolished.
I agree that they must study the history of their new home but it should go both ways.

Forgive me for being more focused on the U.S. and the history of my people and this country! SMDH!
I'm fully aware of the history of this country and immigration into this country. What you and most of the people who came here after slavery may not realize is that you benefited from the period of Slavery but the only people who have not are the descendants of those slaves!!!

Why is it OK for you to be smug and disinterested in how this country became great and the benefits you now enjoy came at a price. A price paid by my ancestors!!! You should be the very type of person most concerned with the injustices done to Natives and AA's. Your callous indifference is not a good look for you!!!

We all are benefiting from body of work of people from all countries and ages who build human civilization, African Americans included. I give all of them equal due. I do not know how to make history fair. I do not think it is possible.
At lease it was never fair to most of the people. My believe is however that this is not a reason for hate and animosity. Especially against people who have nothing to do with what happened in the past.