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here is the channing frye scenario
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TheloniusMonk
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6/26/2005  3:41 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

No one on this particular site talks about Bynum like he is just as much of a risk as any other highschool prospects and could go either way....easily. It's like few people here are willing to talk about this guy with any type of logic. The reality is he could be a Collins type of center at the end of the day. He may be Diop at the end of the day. Maybe he becomes an allstar in 4 years. Who knows? Lets say we pick the kid. Let's say he flops....big time. Don't act like it doesn't happen ALL OF THE TIME. The 2005 draft would be a total disaster. There are pros and cons with drafting Frye or anyone else at 8. But why fool yourselves by sitting here and talking about the BEST CASE SCENARIO with this kid constantly. With the exception of 'time', most people hear are looking at the pros only. You['re talking like he's a sure thing and it's only a matter of time before he explodes upon the scene anialating and detroying anything in his path to become the great Ewing like savior of a center that we have sorely needed. But what happens if he goes the other way? People will probably catch amnesia and Bynum's "upside" and call for Isiah's head because.....say it with me....WE DON'T HAVE A CENTER. Why not look at both sides of the coin?

Why sit around and talk about Bynums strengths (that most have never seen) and at the same time talk about every other player's weaknesses? This is the reason that Bynum has become damn near a super hero on this board.

he's 17 yrs old with less glaring weaknesses than Frye. I rather take a chance on a 7-1 280 C with weaknesses than a 6'10 1/2" 240 jumpshooting C who showed very little strength(a key aspect of being an NBA bigman) except when he played against weaker frontlines in a couple tournament games.

Now that you've exposed Frye's weaknesses why don't you tell me what Bynum's weaknesses are.
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gunsnewing
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6/26/2005  3:47 PM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by gunsnewing:


he's 17 yrs old with less glaring weaknesses than Frye. I rather take a chance on a 7-1 280 C with weaknesses than a 6'10 1/2" 240 jumpshooting C who showed very little strength(a key aspect of being an NBA bigman) except when he played against weaker frontlines in a couple tournament games.

Guns!!

You're trying to give Briggs a run for his money on unsubstantiated hyperbole and the reverse-world equivalent of STARPHUCKING - we'll have to call it POTENTIAPHUCKING!!

I often disagree with Briggs but I wholeheartedly agree wih his view on Frye because Briggs isn't the only one down on Frye. Everyone who actually saw him more than twice in 3yrs will tell you that he is not worth pick 8 and will be crushed by NBA bigs. I mean the guy was crushed by college Centers for 3yrs except during a couple of tourney games against weak frontlines! man I'd rather draft Taft, Vazquez or Blatche at 8!
gunsnewing
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6/26/2005  3:53 PM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

No one on this particular site talks about Bynum like he is just as much of a risk as any other highschool prospects and could go either way....easily. It's like few people here are willing to talk about this guy with any type of logic. The reality is he could be a Collins type of center at the end of the day. He may be Diop at the end of the day. Maybe he becomes an allstar in 4 years. Who knows? Lets say we pick the kid. Let's say he flops....big time. Don't act like it doesn't happen ALL OF THE TIME. The 2005 draft would be a total disaster. There are pros and cons with drafting Frye or anyone else at 8. But why fool yourselves by sitting here and talking about the BEST CASE SCENARIO with this kid constantly. With the exception of 'time', most people hear are looking at the pros only. You['re talking like he's a sure thing and it's only a matter of time before he explodes upon the scene anialating and detroying anything in his path to become the great Ewing like savior of a center that we have sorely needed. But what happens if he goes the other way? People will probably catch amnesia and Bynum's "upside" and call for Isiah's head because.....say it with me....WE DON'T HAVE A CENTER. Why not look at both sides of the coin?

Why sit around and talk about Bynums strengths (that most have never seen) and at the same time talk about every other player's weaknesses? This is the reason that Bynum has become damn near a super hero on this board.

he's 17 yrs old with less glaring weaknesses than Frye. I rather take a chance on a 7-1 280 C with weaknesses than a 6'10 1/2" 240 jumpshooting C who showed very little strength(a key aspect of being an NBA bigman) except when he played against weaker frontlines in a couple tournament games.

Now that you've exposed Frye's weaknesses why don't you tell me what Bynum's weaknesses are.

17 and the transition of going from the HS game where its much more simple to a much more complex NBA like knowing where to be for example. Something 3yr college star, Sweetney, has yet to grasp, defensive stance and low post positioning, footwork and gaining strength and muscle mass a 17yr old has yet to develope.
crzymdups
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6/26/2005  4:00 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Marv:
Posted by gunsnewing:


he's 17 yrs old with less glaring weaknesses than Frye. I rather take a chance on a 7-1 280 C with weaknesses than a 6'10 1/2" 240 jumpshooting C who showed very little strength(a key aspect of being an NBA bigman) except when he played against weaker frontlines in a couple tournament games.

Guns!!

You're trying to give Briggs a run for his money on unsubstantiated hyperbole and the reverse-world equivalent of STARPHUCKING - we'll have to call it POTENTIAPHUCKING!!

I often disagree with Briggs but I wholeheartedly agree wih his view on Frye because Briggs isn't the only one down on Frye. Everyone who actually saw him more than twice in 3yrs will tell you that he is not worth pick 8 and will be crushed by NBA bigs. I mean the guy was crushed by college Centers for 3yrs except during a couple of tourney games against weak frontlines! man I'd rather draft Taft, Vazquez or Blatche at 8!

Of course Bynum has less glaring weaknesses than Frye - you've never seen Bynum play! Geez man.

And, I've gone over this in detail, but Frye outplayed Bogut and Diogu, so please show me the college center that crushed Frye? He also went to school for four years, which makes me wonder - did you even see Frye play?
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Marv
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6/26/2005  4:00 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Marv:
Posted by gunsnewing:


he's 17 yrs old with less glaring weaknesses than Frye. I rather take a chance on a 7-1 280 C with weaknesses than a 6'10 1/2" 240 jumpshooting C who showed very little strength(a key aspect of being an NBA bigman) except when he played against weaker frontlines in a couple tournament games.

Guns!!

You're trying to give Briggs a run for his money on unsubstantiated hyperbole and the reverse-world equivalent of STARPHUCKING - we'll have to call it POTENTIAPHUCKING!!

I often disagree with Briggs but I wholeheartedly agree wih his view on Frye because Briggs isn't the only one down on Frye. Everyone who actually saw him more than twice in 3yrs will tell you that he is not worth pick 8 and will be crushed by NBA bigs. I mean the guy was crushed by college Centers for 3yrs except during a couple of tourney games against weak frontlines! man I'd rather draft Taft, Vazquez or Blatche at 8!

I wish I had seen him play and I wish I had seen Bynum as well. But barring that I've had to go on what's convincing evidence from other sources. For example I've had no trouble being convinced that Bogut is the real deal at #1. Barring 1st hand evidence I'm not ready to write in or out Frye or Bynum, and I havn't seen enough evidence from anyone yet to convince me on either of them.
Knicksfan
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6/26/2005  4:04 PM
This is hilarious! When you want the player, he grows an inch or two. When you don't, you count exactly how many inches- and half inches- he heights or you take an inch away. This boards are so funny when the draft aproaches...
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gunsnewing
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6/26/2005  4:05 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Marv:
Posted by gunsnewing:


he's 17 yrs old with less glaring weaknesses than Frye. I rather take a chance on a 7-1 280 C with weaknesses than a 6'10 1/2" 240 jumpshooting C who showed very little strength(a key aspect of being an NBA bigman) except when he played against weaker frontlines in a couple tournament games.

Guns!!

You're trying to give Briggs a run for his money on unsubstantiated hyperbole and the reverse-world equivalent of STARPHUCKING - we'll have to call it POTENTIAPHUCKING!!

I often disagree with Briggs but I wholeheartedly agree wih his view on Frye because Briggs isn't the only one down on Frye. Everyone who actually saw him more than twice in 3yrs will tell you that he is not worth pick 8 and will be crushed by NBA bigs. I mean the guy was crushed by college Centers for 3yrs except during a couple of tourney games against weak frontlines! man I'd rather draft Taft, Vazquez or Blatche at 8!

Of course Bynum has less glaring weaknesses than Frye - you've never seen Bynum play! Geez man.

And, I've gone over this in detail, but Frye outplayed Bogut and Diogu, so please show me the college center that crushed Frye? He also went to school for four years, which makes me wonder - did you even see Frye play?

he barely played his rookie year and he really didn't outplay Bogut. Bogut killed him all season
crzymdups
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6/26/2005  4:06 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:


I accept that Isiah is a con-artist and would never draft a low ceiling player like Frye at 8. He may not draft Bynum but I guarantee you he won't draft Frye like he's misleading people into thinking he is. He will draft the BPA!

Find me one quote Thomas made about Frye. Anywhere. I dare you. He hasn't said a peep. He worked him out in secret on the West Coast and that leaked, but that's it. Frye has turned down workouts to teams with the 5th, 6th, 7th and 9th picks in the draft. What does that tell you? Maybe Isiah thinks Frye IS the BPA. And frankly, Isiah has seen Frye play, so I trust his opinion more than people on this board who apparently haven't.
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gunsnewing
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6/26/2005  4:09 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by gunsnewing:


I accept that Isiah is a con-artist and would never draft a low ceiling player like Frye at 8. He may not draft Bynum but I guarantee you he won't draft Frye like he's misleading people into thinking he is. He will draft the BPA!

Find me one quote Thomas made about Frye. Anywhere. I dare you. He hasn't said a peep. He worked him out in secret on the West Coast and that leaked, but that's it. Frye has turned down workouts to teams with the 5th, 6th, 7th and 9th picks in the draft. What does that tell you? Maybe Isiah thinks Frye IS the BPA. And frankly, Isiah has seen Frye play, so I trust his opinion more than people on this board who apparently haven't.

because he knows he might've found a sucker in Isiah and he knows other teams like portland, LAL & New Orleans worked out Bynum
crzymdups
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6/26/2005  4:10 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:


he barely played his rookie year and he really didn't outplay Bogut. Bogut killed him all season

dude. They played ONE game. Which Frye won by outplaying Bogut in the second half. Bogut had 20pts, 10reb, no blocks and six turnovers. Frye had 19pts, 9reb, 3 blocks and 1 turnover. He also drew a charge on Bogut, Bogut's 4th foul and forced him out of the game towards the end.

Have you seen Frye play?
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gunsnewing
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6/26/2005  4:13 PM
Isiah doesn't have to workout Bynum like other teams. He problably has been following him around all year in the NJ/NY area. I mean knowing how much we need a Center, its only logical to believe that he has seen both Frye & Bynum
crzymdups
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6/26/2005  4:14 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:


because he knows he might've found a sucker in Isiah and he knows other teams like portland, LAL & New Orleans worked out Bynum

Because Isiah has a different player than you do rated as BPA, he's a sucker? Because Isiah actually watches college basketball and conducts individual workouts and has a history of making excellent draft picks, he's a sucker? Please. While you were still rooting for a playoff run in March, Isiah was going around the world scouting draft prospects. I trust him far more, sorry.
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gunsnewing
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6/26/2005  4:17 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by gunsnewing:


he barely played his rookie year and he really didn't outplay Bogut. Bogut killed him all season

dude. They played ONE game. Which Frye won by outplaying Bogut in the second half. Bogut had 20pts, 10reb, no blocks and six turnovers. Frye had 19pts, 9reb, 3 blocks and 1 turnover. He also drew a charge on Bogut, Bogut's 4th foul and forced him out of the game towards the end.

Have you seen Frye play?

No but I've heard Arizona & Pac 10 fans say he is not that much better than Loren Woods and doesn't go at it 100% all the time which means he's a serviceable 25min per game 10 & 8 Center at best. and my buddy, nyk4ever, who watches college basktball religiously and gives me insight says the same
gunsnewing
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6/26/2005  4:25 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by gunsnewing:


because he knows he might've found a sucker in Isiah and he knows other teams like portland, LAL & New Orleans worked out Bynum

Because Isiah has a different player than you do rated as BPA, he's a sucker? Because Isiah actually watches college basketball and conducts individual workouts and has a history of making excellent draft picks, he's a sucker? Please. While you were still rooting for a playoff run in March, Isiah was going around the world scouting draft prospects. I trust him far more, sorry.

funny I remember being one of the main posters killing the Knicks for not playing the young guys and improving their draft position. Thats the period my total number of posts skyrocketed because I became so frustrated with this team!

and don't bring up the week or 2 shortly after the trades when the team's goal became to make the playoffs and then went on to collapse twice against both miami & seattle and all but end their playoff hopes.

Thats when it became obvious we needed to play the young guys like butler & ariza and get that 6th overall pick.
It was obvious before until they had false hopes that acquirring Rose & Taylor would somehow get them in the playoffs.
crzymdups
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6/26/2005  4:26 PM
Frye has nothing to do with Loren Woods. Woods is 7'1" 260lbs, not as athletic and has had three back surgeries to fuse spinal cords together. Woods also had legendary confidence issues because he was at Wake right around Duncan's time and couldn't live up to Duncan.

Frye is far more athletic, a much better shotblocker than Woods. He has a better midrange game and will be deadly on the pick and pop. He wasn't featured in the offense enough because Salim Stoudamire was a ball hog and Lute Olsen's system doesn't really feature post guys, it's more like catch the ball then pass and cut or shoot it. Guys almost always go from his system to put up better numbers in the NBA. Look at Richard Jefferson, Gilbert Arenas and Andre Igoudala. People say Arizona has never produced a big man, but to me, that's like saying Syracuse has never produced an athletic wing man as an argument not draft Melo.
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crzymdups
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6/26/2005  4:28 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by gunsnewing:


because he knows he might've found a sucker in Isiah and he knows other teams like portland, LAL & New Orleans worked out Bynum

Because Isiah has a different player than you do rated as BPA, he's a sucker? Because Isiah actually watches college basketball and conducts individual workouts and has a history of making excellent draft picks, he's a sucker? Please. While you were still rooting for a playoff run in March, Isiah was going around the world scouting draft prospects. I trust him far more, sorry.

funny I remember being one of the main posters killing the Knicks for not playing the young guys and improving their draft position. Thats the period my total number of posts skyrocketed because I became so frustrated with this team!

and don't bring up the week or 2 shortly after the trades when the team's goal became to make the playoffs and then went on to collapse twice against both miami & seattle and all but end their playoff hopes.

Thats when it became obvious we needed to play the young guys like butler & ariza and get that 6th overall pick.
It was obvious before until they had false hopes that acquirring Rose & Taylor would somehow get them in the playoffs.

if you want me to go back and find the threads, I can...
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Marv
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6/26/2005  4:31 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:


No but I've heard Arizona & Pac 10 fans say he is not that much better than Loren Woods and doesn't go at it 100% all the time which means he's a serviceable 25min per game 10 & 8 Center at best. and my buddy, nyk4ever, who watches college basktball religiously and gives me insight says the same

Guns, I hear the bad things and they concern me too.

But I also hear the good things and they intrigue me. How come you don't give any credence to this aspect of the reports on him:

"Strengths: Very skilled bigman...Fundamentally sound in nearly every area...Runs the floor well on the break...Great base mechanics on his jumper...Keeps the ball high in the post...Good footwork on the block...Soft hands...Can make his post move with either hand...Steadily improving jump-hook and drop-step...Surprisingly effective spot-up shooter, which makes him a dangerous scoring threat on the pick-and-roll...Outstanding free-throw shooter (about 83%)...Crashes the offensive boards hard...Solid help defender and shot blocker...Enormous wingspan...Boxes out well...Excels at the tip-in and follow-up dunk...Terrific passer out of the post...Solid ball-handler..Defends both the center and power forward position effectively...Always improving his overall game...Even though his scoring average is slightly down, he’s a much better overall player now than he was as a junior...Has impressed many scouts with his stand out senior season."

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/channingfrye.asp
gunsnewing
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6/26/2005  4:54 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by gunsnewing:


because he knows he might've found a sucker in Isiah and he knows other teams like portland, LAL & New Orleans worked out Bynum

Because Isiah has a different player than you do rated as BPA, he's a sucker? Because Isiah actually watches college basketball and conducts individual workouts and has a history of making excellent draft picks, he's a sucker? Please. While you were still rooting for a playoff run in March, Isiah was going around the world scouting draft prospects. I trust him far more, sorry.

funny I remember being one of the main posters killing the Knicks for not playing the young guys and improving their draft position. Thats the period my total number of posts skyrocketed because I became so frustrated with this team!

and don't bring up the week or 2 shortly after the trades when the team's goal became to make the playoffs and then went on to collapse twice against both miami & seattle and all but end their playoff hopes.

Thats when it became obvious we needed to play the young guys like butler & ariza and get that 6th overall pick.
It was obvious before until they had false hopes that acquirring Rose & Taylor would somehow get them in the playoffs.

if you want me to go back and find the threads, I can...

be my guest, bring up all my posts post the miami and seattle 4th quarter collapses. i'm sure bonn and nyk4ever remember me, briggs, Matt, marv and others arguing about ariza only getting 5mins per if any!
BRIGGS
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6/26/2005  4:55 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Marv:

[quote]Posted by gunsnewing:


he's 17 yrs old with less glaring weaknesses than Frye. I rather take a chance on a 7-1 280 C with weaknesses than a 6'10 1/2" 240 jumpshooting C who showed very little strength(a key aspect of being an NBA bigman) except when he played against weaker frontlines in a couple tournament games.

Guns!!

You're trying to give Briggs a run for his money on unsubstantiated hyperbole and the reverse-world equivalent of STARPHUCKING - we'll have to call it POTENTIAPHUCKING!!

I often disagree with Briggs but I wholeheartedly agree wih his view on Frye because Briggs isn't the only one down on Frye. Everyone who actually saw him more than twice in 3yrs will tell you that he is not worth pick 8 and will be crushed by NBA bigs. I mean the guy was crushed by college Centers for 3yrs except during a couple of tourney games against weak frontlines! man I'd rather draft Taft, Vazquez or Blatche at 8!

Of course Bynum has less glaring weaknesses than Frye - you've never seen Bynum play! Geez man.

And, I've gone over this in detail, but Frye outplayed Bogut and Diogu, so please show me the college center that crushed Frye? He also went to school for four years, which makes me wonder - did you even see Frye play?


thats complete and utter BS. If you are criticsing someone for not watching Bynum, fair enough, but to sit here stright and say Frye outplayed Bogut and Diogu when i watched their games on TV is out right BS. Channing Frye was not a match for either player. It doesnt matter if Frye scored some points against Utah, because it was the play 1-1 that was disturbing. Bogut and Diogu MANHANDLED Frye. If you are saying you watched those games, then you know this is true, dont go by stats, put backs and fast break dunks off steals arent posting up and socring on someone. And especially Digou who has chumped Channing frye around so badly the last few years he got the nickname french frye for the ASU fans--they bring pictures of fries to the game FRIES!
RIP Crushalot😞
gunsnewing
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6/26/2005  4:59 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Marv:

[quote]Posted by gunsnewing:


he's 17 yrs old with less glaring weaknesses than Frye. I rather take a chance on a 7-1 280 C with weaknesses than a 6'10 1/2" 240 jumpshooting C who showed very little strength(a key aspect of being an NBA bigman) except when he played against weaker frontlines in a couple tournament games.

Guns!!

You're trying to give Briggs a run for his money on unsubstantiated hyperbole and the reverse-world equivalent of STARPHUCKING - we'll have to call it POTENTIAPHUCKING!!

I often disagree with Briggs but I wholeheartedly agree wih his view on Frye because Briggs isn't the only one down on Frye. Everyone who actually saw him more than twice in 3yrs will tell you that he is not worth pick 8 and will be crushed by NBA bigs. I mean the guy was crushed by college Centers for 3yrs except during a couple of tourney games against weak frontlines! man I'd rather draft Taft, Vazquez or Blatche at 8!

Of course Bynum has less glaring weaknesses than Frye - you've never seen Bynum play! Geez man.

And, I've gone over this in detail, but Frye outplayed Bogut and Diogu, so please show me the college center that crushed Frye? He also went to school for four years, which makes me wonder - did you even see Frye play?


thats complete and utter BS. If you are criticsing someone for not watching Bynum, fair enough, but to sit here stright and say Frye outplayed Bogut and Diogu when i watched their games on TV is out right BS. Channing Frye was not a match for either player. It doesnt matter if Frye scored some points against Utah, because it was the play 1-1 that was disturbing. Bogut and Diogu MANHANDLED Frye. If you are saying you watched those games, then you know this is true, dont go by stats, put backs and fast break dunks off steals arent posting up and socring on someone. And especially Digou who has chumped Channing frye around so badly the last few years he got the nickname french frye for the ASU fans--they bring pictures of fries to the game FRIES!

always nice when you help back someone up with facts, thanks briggs! arizona fans hate frye!
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