Posted by fishmike:

The more I think about Frye the more drafting him will really kill me. The guy is a "good" college player. Dont you want to draft someone that dominated at that level? The guy has 1.5 inches on Ike Diogu (who played center)

Look at their h2h

AS got killed because the cats had much better teams, especially the guards. Last year with Igodala and this year with Stoudamire, but not only did Ike have monster scoring games but he also outrebounded Frye and got about 3 times as many blocks.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=250020012
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=250640009
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=240030009
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=250640009

Maybe Frye was stuck in a system that built around guard play. I do know he didnt get a ton of plays call for him in the game I watched, but he was a borderline impact player. Heck... he was the 2nd or 3rd best player on his team.

Fish, this is ridiculous. Two of the three games were blowouts that Frye won (in fact, Frye won all three games) - in those games, Diogu played 12 more minutes in one and 11 more minutes in the other - and that is the only reason he outrebounded Frye. In the one game that was close, Frye outrebounded Diogu and still won. I mean, come on, there's head to head and there's blowouts where Frye doesn't play for most of the second half and Diogu plays the entire game. You can't compare rebounds in that situation. look at the scoreboard. You also left out this blowout:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=240670012

Frye and Igoudala killed Diogu. Perhaps its only fair to look at this year's games, but even by himself, Frye blew out Diogu and then beat him in a close game.

Sometimes it's not ALL about stats, it's about looking at player and seeing how he plays the game. Frye has impressed me quite a bit, I was hoping the Knicks could a mid first rounder to get him back in March, but at this rate, I don't mind using the lotto pick on him.

What reason is there to doubt Frye? Because Briggs decides he's on steroids? What about the article from the Arizona website where Frye says he has gained SEVEN pounds since the end of the season? We're supposed to be worried about Frye gaining seven pounds and not be worried at all that a 17-yr old with no muscule tone at all has lost between 35-50lbs over the same time period?

Come on. This is ridiculous.

Posted by crzymdups:

Posted by fishmike:

The more I think about Frye the more drafting him will really kill me. The guy is a "good" college player. Dont you want to draft someone that dominated at that level? The guy has 1.5 inches on Ike Diogu (who played center)

Look at their h2h

AS got killed because the cats had much better teams, especially the guards. Last year with Igodala and this year with Stoudamire, but not only did Ike have monster scoring games but he also outrebounded Frye and got about 3 times as many blocks.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=250020012
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=250640009
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=240030009
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=250640009

Maybe Frye was stuck in a system that built around guard play. I do know he didnt get a ton of plays call for him in the game I watched, but he was a borderline impact player. Heck... he was the 2nd or 3rd best player on his team.

Fish, this is ridiculous. Two of the three games were blowouts that Frye won (in fact, Frye won all three games) - in those games, Diogu played 12 more minutes in one and 11 more minutes in the other - and that is the only reason he outrebounded Frye. In the one game that was close, Frye outrebounded Diogu and still won. I mean, come on, there's head to head and there's blowouts where Frye doesn't play for most of the second half and Diogu plays the entire game. You can't compare rebounds in that situation. look at the scoreboard. You also left out this blowout:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=240670012

Frye and Igoudala killed Diogu. Perhaps its only fair to look at this year's games, but even by himself, Frye blew out Diogu and then beat him in a close game.

Sometimes it's not ALL about stats, it's about looking at player and seeing how he plays the game. Frye has impressed me quite a bit, I was hoping the Knicks could a mid first rounder to get him back in March, but at this rate, I don't mind using the lotto pick on him.

What reason is there to doubt Frye? Because Briggs decides he's on steroids? What about the article from the Arizona website where Frye says he has gained SEVEN pounds since the end of the season? We're supposed to be worried about Frye gaining seven pounds and not be worried at all that a 17-yr old with no muscule tone at all has lost between 35-50lbs over the same time period?

Come on. This is ridiculous.

Crzy, the whole point is IMO, that Frye's stock jumped on the fact it was reported he gained all this weight. I know Frye said it was 7 pounds, but for some reason all these reports are coming out...the ONLY guy whose stock has changed as dramatically as Frye's is Taft, but Taft is moving down and Frye is moving up...I mean Frye just skyrocketted in workouts and reports....a whole 4 years of good, but not dominating by any means, college play shouldn't be dispelled by a couple wind sprints and a bench press.

Posted by crzymdups:

Nazr didn't look good hear? He looked pretty great until his injury. He was leading the league in offensive rebounding and averaging 13ppg and 9.5 rpg. That's pretty damn good from the center spot.

Also, with all the comparisons of Frye to Tim Thomas, I think the guy in the draft who reminds me more of Tim Thomas is Marvin Williams. What position is that guy gonna play? To me, his ceiling is Antawn Jamison. I don't know WHO would want that ceiling at the first or second pick.

Nazr was up an down all season. He had a horrible begining of the season, but then he came on real strong. Then came on super strong then leveled off again. His production was very good, before he was traded which is why we were able to get 2 picks and Malik, who isn't a bad player. But Nazr was very inconsistent and I think that hurt him in NY.

College stats are misleading, since the players are playing specific roles within a system.

There are quite a number of effective players in the NBA who completely trump their college production-- examples include Richard Jefferson (averaged 11.3 ppg as a freshmen-- numbers dropped across the board as a sophomore--- look at his numbers this past season!). Antonio McDyess averaged only 13.9ppg as a soph.

Who knows how Frye will project to in the NBA... he might amount to nothing, but... based on his current level of fitness, he could eventually be better in the NBA.

Keep in mind that the much maligned Kurt Thomas had one of the best seasons in recent college basketball history in his final year at TCU:

28.9ppg, 14.6rpg... I believe he was the last college player to lead the country in scoring and rebounding in the same year.

http://www.basketballreference.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=THOMAKU01

there's really only one very big and important thing to think about concerning frye - in an age where nobody has a center anymore, this guy played 4 years of college at that position YET is not even considered a top 3 pick?

what does that say about him?

seriously, that's frye in a nutshell. if he's projected to go 8th, EIGTH, in a draft with only 2 other centers, (bogut and bynum), then why are 5-7 other teams passing on him?

RED FLAGS GALORE!!!

Posted by crzymdups:

Posted by djsunyc:

there's really only one very big and important thing to think about concerning frye - in an age where nobody has a center anymore, this guy played 4 years of college at that position YET is not even considered a top 3 pick?

what does that say about him?

seriously, that's frye in a nutshell. if he's projected to go 8th, EIGTH, in a draft with only 2 other centers, (bogut and bynum), then why are 5-7 other teams passing on him?

RED FLAGS GALORE!!!

I think that's the wrong way to look at it. First of all, look at the teams picking ahead of us:

Milwaukee: taking a center, Bogut
Atlanta: needs big, needs PG, needs everything
Portland: Has Ratliff, Przybilla, Randolph, needs SG/SF
New Orleans: Has Magloire, PJ Brown, Chris Andersen, needs PG/SF
Charlotte: has Okafor, Brezec, needs SF/SG/PG
Utah: Has Okur, Boozer, Borchardt, AK47, needs PG/shooter
Toronto: Has Aruajo, Bosh, Woods, needs SG/PG/SF
Knicks: Need C

a lot of the guys ahead of us have big bodies and need players at the perimeter skill positions.

right, and if frye isn't better than any of those guys, what does that mean when we play those teams?

it's not that he's not better than them, it's that those teams have capable players there - most of whom make a LOT of money - and have drastic needs at other positions.

I'm not sure how this is a red flag.

I also don't understand how if Frye plays 26 minutes in a blow out and grabs 5 rebs with his team up 30 then sits for the game and Diogu plays 38 minutes and pads his rebounds totals up to 9 in garbage time as his team closes the final margain to 24 - how do people come away from that game thinking: A) Frye can't rebound and B) Diogu outplayed him? That's insane to me.

Chris Mihm is actually a decent player.

Posted by fishmike:

forget Diogu.. Frye had 12 games with 5 boards or less. That sucks for a 7 foot center. He got pushed around by shorter stronger guys like Ike.. thats the only reason I mentioned him. The other reason I mentioned Ike is when they raise their hands about their head's Fry is 1 inch taller... to me thats a wash.
Frye is not a great defensive player, Not a great rebounder, not a great shotblocker. He's a good scorer with a good all around game. Every year guys like that get plastered in the NBA. Kurt Thomas is going to knock him off the block every time.

This guy has Jason Collins or Chris Mihm written all over him

How many of those 5 rebound games were blowouts where he didn't play in the second half? Like those blowout wins where he somehow got dominated by Diogu despite resting on the bench after the game was out of reach?

He has a chance to be a very good shotblocker in the NBA, who plays perfectly in the pick and roll. I forget what are our needs again?