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BRIGGS
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6/13/2005  1:33 AM
The bottom line, if there is a better judge of talent in the room than Jim Calhoun, please stand up and be counted for. Ive heard him dog recruits before they got to school, including CV, but he had tremendous praise for Bynum. If the basketball world was right, Andrew would go to Uconn for atleast 1 year, but iF he does, we wont see anything like thta for years upon years. I follow the player pipeline--the C prospects are SPARSE
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crzymdups
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6/13/2005  1:36 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:

with pick 8 we need someone who will improve the talent level of this horrendous team. We're not just an athletic Center away. We need someone who is going to go inside down the stretch in the 4th quarter and score so that Marbury and the Knicks don't have another 60 4th quarter collapses next season! If that bigman is not in this draft then we're going to have to look elsewhere and just draft the player with the highest ceiling. The next Mcgrady, Pierce, Artest, Kobe, Rashard etc

...sometimes a high ceiling is just that - a ceiling that will never be reached. How many high ceiling players reach potential? How many players sit around the league waiting on potential year after year? Now contrast that with people like Dwyane Wade, Paul Pierce, Emeka Okafor - guys who put up numbers at great programs and continued to do the same thing RIGHT AWAY in the NBA.

The fact is: most stars come into the league knowing how to play. Very few guys "figure it out" at the NBA level. Even Amare, he came in year one knowing how to play and he and Marbury took the champion Spurs to Game 6 in the first round and gave those guys all they could handle. I'm sure Jermaine O'neal will be mentioned, but his problem was getting Playing Time in Portland, he was actually quite good in limited minutes. You're asking for a kid that knows nothing about how to play to come into the league and what? Save our franchise? Sounds like Eddy Curry meets Jerome James and another Knicks lotto pick in 2k6...

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06/13/2005 01:37:55]
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crzymdups
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6/13/2005  1:37 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

The bottom line, if there is a better judge of talent in the room than Jim Calhoun, please stand up and be counted for. Ive heard him dog recruits before they got to school, including CV, but he had tremendous praise for Bynum. If the basketball world was right, Andrew would go to Uconn for atleast 1 year, but iF he does, we wont see anything like thta for years upon years. I follow the player pipeline--the C prospects are SPARSE

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gunsnewing
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6/13/2005  1:37 AM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by BRIGGS:

HS kids will never be projected correctly. Just look at last year--Josh Smith JR Smith 17+19? they are HIGH lottery talents, no doubt about it.

J Oneal 16
Amare 9
Rashard Lewis 33
Kobe 13

its hard for people to project

you left out

Curry 4
Chandler 2
Bender 5
Griffin 7
Diop 8
Kwame 1
Miles 3

only guy there with the Skills, size and wingspan of Bynum is Curry and he's lazy with a bad heart. Bynum right off the bat proved that he is not lazy by showing up to camp 30-40LBS lighter

But why is it that everyone was trying to get 'Baby Shaq' back then and with Bynum not a whole lot of hype is surrounding him? I remember that year I was hoping against hope that some way or another we could wind up with Curry. I hadn't really seen him play but the way teams were salivating over him I felt that he must have been something special. I'm not getting that with Bynum....with the exception of this site. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of why that is. It makes me somewhat hesitant about wanting him at 8. I dunno

which is why we have to wait and see what Isiah thinks when he sees him in person. channing frye is not the answer as high as 8. Not worth passing up on 3-4 potential allstar wing players. As happens in every draft when teams waste picks on bigs at around pick 8 and a ton of allstar wing players slip.

If you want a bigman who can turn this team around immediately win 20 games don't play your stars for 50mins a game because you desperately want to win meaningless games and save face! play the Jackie Butler more than 6mins total minutes in an entire season and play Ariza and Sweetney for longer than 18 & 22 minutes!
crzymdups
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6/13/2005  1:39 AM
so you'd rather have a flaming disaster in Bynum than a flaming disaster in Frye is what you're saying?

also, guns, you were one of the guys cheering for wins in March...

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06/13/2005 01:39:53]
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gunsnewing
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6/13/2005  1:40 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by gunsnewing:

with pick 8 we need someone who will improve the talent level of this horrendous team. We're not just an athletic Center away. We need someone who is going to go inside down the stretch in the 4th quarter and score so that Marbury and the Knicks don't have another 60 4th quarter collapses next season! If that bigman is not in this draft then we're going to have to look elsewhere and just draft the player with the highest ceiling. The next Mcgrady, Pierce, Artest, Kobe, Rashard etc

...sometimes a high ceiling is just that - a ceiling that will never be reached. How many high ceiling players reach potential? How many players sit around the league waiting on potential year after year? Now contrast that with people like Dwyane Wade, Paul Pierce, Emeka Okafor - guys who put up numbers at great programs and continued to do the same thing RIGHT AWAY in the NBA.

The fact is: most stars come into the league knowing how to play. Very few guys "figure it out" at the NBA level. Even Amare, he came in year one knowing how to play and he and Marbury took the champion Spurs to Game 6 in the first round and gave those guys all they could handle. I'm sure Jermaine O'neal will be mentioned, but his problem was getting Playing Time in Portland, he was actually quite good in limited minutes. You're asking for a kid that knows nothing about how to play to come into the league and what? Save our franchise? Sounds like Eddy Curry meets Jerome James and another Knicks lotto pick in 2k6...

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06/13/2005 01:37:55]

doesn't know how to play? What has he been doing his whole life? goaltending in Nigeria?!
gunsnewing
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6/13/2005  1:41 AM
Posted by crzymdups:

so you'd rather have a flaming disaster in Bynum than a flaming disaster in Frye is what you're saying?

also, guns, you were one of the guys cheering for wins in March...

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06/13/2005 01:39:53]

oh I was? are you frickin kidding me!
crzymdups
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6/13/2005  1:42 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by gunsnewing:

with pick 8 we need someone who will improve the talent level of this horrendous team. We're not just an athletic Center away. We need someone who is going to go inside down the stretch in the 4th quarter and score so that Marbury and the Knicks don't have another 60 4th quarter collapses next season! If that bigman is not in this draft then we're going to have to look elsewhere and just draft the player with the highest ceiling. The next Mcgrady, Pierce, Artest, Kobe, Rashard etc

...sometimes a high ceiling is just that - a ceiling that will never be reached. How many high ceiling players reach potential? How many players sit around the league waiting on potential year after year? Now contrast that with people like Dwyane Wade, Paul Pierce, Emeka Okafor - guys who put up numbers at great programs and continued to do the same thing RIGHT AWAY in the NBA.

The fact is: most stars come into the league knowing how to play. Very few guys "figure it out" at the NBA level. Even Amare, he came in year one knowing how to play and he and Marbury took the champion Spurs to Game 6 in the first round and gave those guys all they could handle. I'm sure Jermaine O'neal will be mentioned, but his problem was getting Playing Time in Portland, he was actually quite good in limited minutes. You're asking for a kid that knows nothing about how to play to come into the league and what? Save our franchise? Sounds like Eddy Curry meets Jerome James and another Knicks lotto pick in 2k6...

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06/13/2005 01:37:55]

doesn't know how to play? What has he been doing his whole life? goaltending in Nigeria?!

....apparently, eating cheeseburgers in high school. He certainly didn't play much basketball in high school, if that's what you're trying to imply.
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crzymdups
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6/13/2005  1:46 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by crzymdups:

so you'd rather have a flaming disaster in Bynum than a flaming disaster in Frye is what you're saying?

also, guns, you were one of the guys cheering for wins in March...

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06/13/2005 01:39:53]

oh I was? are you frickin kidding me!

sorry, could be wrong there, I was thinking of threads like this...
http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=8447
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gunsnewing
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6/13/2005  1:46 AM
I did cheer for wins when we made those trades for about a week as it became apparent this team doesn't value a high draft pick. But after witnessing the same results only different faces as we collapsed for the 60th time against the Sonics, Heat, then the Sonics and Heat again somewhere in early March it was time to limit the starters minutes and play Crawford more at PG especially since Steph was hurting, and play Butler for more than 6 total minutes and play Ariza for more the the 5mins per game Ariza was averaging under Herb

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 06/13/2005 01:49:08]
gunsnewing
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6/13/2005  1:48 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by crzymdups:

so you'd rather have a flaming disaster in Bynum than a flaming disaster in Frye is what you're saying?

also, guns, you were one of the guys cheering for wins in March...

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06/13/2005 01:39:53]

oh I was? are you frickin kidding me!

sorry, could be wrong there, I was thinking of threads like this...
http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=8447

exactly! right around that period is when I gave up on this timultous group of fake Knicks and started hoping for the best in the future and in the draft.

I was already rooting for losses before the trades were made and went back to rooting for losses very early in March. The season ended on April 20th. If we took those steps we would've had a great chance at finishing with the 6th or 7th worst record and Andrew Bogut or at least Gerald Green. Instead Milwalkee with the 6th worst record got Bogut and Toronto will take Green if he's there.



[Edited by - gunsnewing on 06/13/2005 01:56:19]
gunsnewing
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6/13/2005  2:05 AM
oh and another thing you said, "so he took Trim Spa for three months and worked out" like he's been overweight his whole life. He gained weight after that injury. It took Curry til this year to get into shape and he was still lazy on the court. You think a guy like Calhoun would put up with a bum like Curry and his 5rebs per game?!

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 06/13/2005 02:10:52]
BRIGGS
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6/13/2005  2:24 AM
I dont think Frye will be a bust, I think he could be a good player, but i do not think he has the upside of Bynum anyway you slice it. Should Bynum go to school? yes, but if he does, he will be a top 3 or 1 choice, even in 1 year IMHO. IMHO, Channing frye will NOt be a better long term solution for the Knicks. I do think he has a great touch on the ball and can use his length effectively at times, but when i question things like base strength physical and mental toughness for a post player who enjoys the jumper more than getting 5 feet from the basket, you can see wher Im going. Bynum is a unique prospect because his upside is franchise post player, and anyway you slice it, thats not channing frye.

Frye is a somewhat safe pick-Bynum is a risk reward pick

Bynum would give a gM more time, frye better kick arse from day 1 and understand that he will start his career in NY on draft night taking boooos.
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PooPooPrince
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6/13/2005  2:29 AM
when will the knicks work out Bynum?

Herb Williams should be able to give the best assessment.. If they decide Bynum is the man he will be the man.


Sure Isiah screwed in past drafts but get got Mcgrady who is arguably the best offensive talent in the league.


I don't see why people insist on drafting Frye than Wright,Webster or Granger


If they feel Bynum is someone special they will sure get him.

diderotn
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6/13/2005  9:51 AM
I will be fine with Frye as my center next season.
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crzymdups
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6/13/2005  10:36 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

I dont think Frye will be a bust, I think he could be a good player, but i do not think he has the upside of Bynum anyway you slice it. Should Bynum go to school? yes, but if he does, he will be a top 3 or 1 choice, even in 1 year IMHO. IMHO, Channing frye will NOt be a better long term solution for the Knicks. I do think he has a great touch on the ball and can use his length effectively at times, but when i question things like base strength physical and mental toughness for a post player who enjoys the jumper more than getting 5 feet from the basket, you can see wher Im going. Bynum is a unique prospect because his upside is franchise post player, and anyway you slice it, thats not channing frye.

Frye is a somewhat safe pick-Bynum is a risk reward pick

Bynum would give a gM more time, frye better kick arse from day 1 and understand that he will start his career in NY on draft night taking boooos.

if you look at who the draft busts are, especially in the late lotto going through the years, it's usually a team that tries to reach on a project that ends up with a bust.

I think Frye has just as much potential to improve his game as Bynum does. I mean, if we're talking about high school stats, Frye average 22ppg, 15rpg and 6bpg in high school. Bynum averaged 18ppg, 12rpg and 5bpg. He's raw. There's no two ways about it. Frye is more skilled. Bynum may have better size, but I really don't see where he has any other advantage. I don't see how he's different from Diop or Jerome James.

edit: IF he goes to Uconn and learns some basketball skills in a highly competitive environment, I could see him being better than James and Diop, but let's not discount the value of learning skills and gaining experience through playing time. Bynum missed a substantial amount of high school ball last season and historically, high school players who don't have skills don't develop those skills in the NBA. They get dunked on. A lot.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06/13/2005 10:38:05]
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