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Isiah has good ideas.... Trade for Gasol
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bigpimpin
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6/7/2005  12:27 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by bigpimpin:
Posted by crzymdups:

Gasol's blocks and rebounds have gone down steadily since his rookie season. He's very overrated. I'd take Stromile Swift over him any day of the week.

He's panned out? I agree. He's gotten as good as he will ever get. Bynum has a far higher ceiling. Will he get there? Who knows. But he has the potential to be far better than Gasol. You know what you're getting with Gasol, but I'd rather have someone who can win you a playoff game.

Dude, Memphis plays their players about 25 minutes a game. Of course the numbers are going to go down. How do you know Bynum has a far higher ceiling? How?

You rather have someone who can win a playoff game...well at least his team WENT!

Is that a dynasty. Gasol played 32mpg last year. His rebs per 48 minutes was 11. That's pathetic. Nazr consistantly averaged 15rebs per 48 as a Knick, and he's two inches shorter than Gasol. I'm sorry, this notion that Gasol is a franchise player is pathetic. You're comparing him to Bynum? Why? Compare him to an NBA player. You know who you'll end up with? Keith Van Horn or Shareef Abdur Rahim.

Pau Gasol is a much better player than Nazr Mohammad. We had Nazr and his 15 rebounds a game, remember?

Ask the Spurs would they take Gasol for Nazr. Then tell them about his rebounding edge and watch them laugh at you.

I never said Gasol was a franchise player. Can you read? I said I would rather have Gasol with the Knicks now then take a chance on Bynum. Can you comprehend?

Ask the Bulls would they rather have Elton "I have reached my ceiling" Brand or would they rather have Chandler and Curry and see what they say.

Ask the Wizards would they rather have Kwame or Gasol, Randolph, Troy Murphy


You don't know what you are getting with a high school big man until you get it. Wake up

"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
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crzymdups
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6/7/2005  12:30 PM
I think your problem started when you linked my argument and my signature. My interest in Bynum has nothing to do with my distaste for Gasol. I'm not interested in comparing Gasol to high schoolers, you are. This is because you can't possibly compare him to a real NBA all-star from the same draft like Richard Jefferson.

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crzymdups
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6/7/2005  12:34 PM
Also, what do you think the Spurs want more: rebounding and defense to COMPLEMENT Tim Duncan or another scorer to take the ball out of his hands?

The Spurs know how to build a team. It seems like some of you guys are interested in putting a 20ppg scorer at every position and building an all-star team. All-star teams don't win championships. Defense and TEAMS do. Neither San Antonio nor Detroit would start Gasol. No team that ever wins a championship will ever have Gasol in their starting lineup. That's why I have no interest in him.

Can you honestly say you know that answer for Bynum? No. That's why he intrigues me.
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fishmike
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6/7/2005  12:35 PM
Gasol would be a great addition, and you could project the kind of impact that Jamison had for Wash. A kind of do-all forward that can take the pressure off the perimeter players like AJ did for Glibert and Larry Hughes.

Gasol is NOT a franchise player that will carry a team.
He's not proven in the clutch
He's not tough and physical.
He IS a hell of a scorer and a tough guard for 3s,4s or 5s.
He's a good rebounder. I watch a boatload of Mem games, more than any other team aside from the Knicks. The Mem guards really work hard on the glass and a lot of their sets have Gasol at the top of the key. He's rebounding #s are more a system thing than a soft thing.

He' always getting stripped by guards in the post. Then he throws his hands up looking for a call. Its a little pathetic.

KVH is a fair comparison. At least the EARLY KVH who was very solid before he started getting hurt and playing more cautious.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
bigpimpin
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6/7/2005  12:40 PM
You are severely lost. I mean severely lost. It's sad.

"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
bigpimpin
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6/7/2005  12:44 PM
Fishmike, thank you for adding some sense to this debate.

I would rather have Gasol playing power forward for the Knicks than any player they currently have playing the position.

The Knicks don't need to build around Gasol, that's what Stephon Marbury was for. Rememeber?

I seen Bybnum play in the McD game and I was not impressed at all. That's why I personally would rather have a proven player like Gasol then Bynum because Gasol is 20 and 10.

Bynum might be another BUST. He may not be but I would never take the chance of finding out. You would

The end
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
Bonn1997
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6/7/2005  12:56 PM
I don't mind Isiah doing a few low ball offers. This offer doesn't sound much worse than offering Claxton for Baron Davis. Gasol has a huge long contract that teams won't take on because he's not a franchise player. I could see the Knicks obtaining Gasol eventually by giving up more than the initial offer (as I've written about on other posts) if Memphis is having the financial troubles they reportedly are having.
Gasol is not KVH. Gasol is somewhat soft but he's 7', a good rebounder, and ten times the shot-blocker Van Horn is.
crzymdups
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6/7/2005  12:57 PM
Gasol is not a 20 and 10 player. Sorry.

So, what, you're saying you would have taken "proven" Gasol over wild and crazy Amare? Or over that unknown quantity Lebron? Or that mysterious Garnett cat? Sure, there are risks with drafting high school players, but there are often HUGE payoffs.

Look, I wouldn't mind adding Gasol. But here's the problem: COST. To add Gasol, we'd have to give up serious assets. This is a team with almost NO assets. Trade for Gasol and it will cost you the 8th pick, KT and Ariza. That's three assets for one. On the other hand, you keep Ariza and the 8th pick and develop them and you could potentially have two players better than Gasol. If you keep trading multiple assets for one "proven" player, you're always going to be fighting uphill and you're always going to be paying high salaries.

This team has to rebuild. Gasol has no place here because while he'd probably get this team to the playoffs with Marbury (like Van Horn was doing), he wouldn't make them a contender. I'll take my chances trying to assemble a contender in the draft.
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Allanfan20
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6/7/2005  1:02 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

I don't mind Isiah doing a few low ball offers. This offer doesn't sound much worse than offering Claxton for Baron Davis. Gasol has a huge long contract that teams won't take on because he's not a franchise player. I could see the Knicks obtaining Gasol eventually by giving up more than the initial offer (as I've written about on other posts) if Memphis is having the financial troubles they reportedly are having.
Gasol is not KVH. Gasol is somewhat soft but he's 7', a good rebounder, and ten times the shot-blocker Van Horn is.

They compare him to Keith Van Horn, b/c he needs to be semi spoon fed, he's kinda soft, and he dissapears when his team needs him the most. And if he get frustrated even a little (Watch the Knick Memphis game last December when KT and JYD embarrassed him) then he'll dissapear as well. He'd be a decent fit for the team, but I would much rather go in other directions. I'm not really a Gasol fan.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
gunsnewing
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6/7/2005  1:04 PM
Gasol is not as bad as crymdups is suggesting but its not worth taking on his contract for the 8th pick but if we can steal him then I'll be thrilled. I just don't think we'll be anything more than a Wizards like 1st or 2nd round playoff exit team with Gasol as our best bigman. Now put him alongside Bynum and we might have something really special!
fishmike
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6/7/2005  1:08 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

Gasol is not as bad as crymdups is suggesting but its not worth taking on his contract for the 8th pick but if we can steal him then I'll be thrilled. I just don't think we'll be anything more than a Wizards like 1st or 2nd round playoff exit team with Gasol as our best bigman. Now put him alongside Bynum and we might have something really special!
there you go... it comes down to the deal. I have no problem with the Knicks taking on his contract. They can afford to do that. They cant afford to offer KT, TT, Ariza and pick 8 for JWill and Gasol, which is a Knick/Isiah type of trade.

I would max my offer at Tim Thomas plus either Sweetney or pick 30.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
crzymdups
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6/7/2005  1:09 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

Gasol is not as bad as crymdups is suggesting but its not worth taking on his contract for the 8th pick but if we can steal him then I'll be thrilled. I just don't think we'll be anything more than a Wizards like 1st or 2nd round playoff exit team with Gasol as our best bigman. Now put him alongside Bynum and we might have something really special!

I don't mean the KVH comparisons as an insult. But let's face facts: both players are severely limited and have major problems. I think we can do better in the draft.

now, if it comes down to trading for Kwame Brown or Gasol - obviously I'd take Gasol.
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Knick2001
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6/7/2005  1:12 PM
I think Kwame Brown can be had from the Wizards at a much cheaper price and that's direction I would go for.
crzymdups
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6/7/2005  1:16 PM
To me, any trade we make I have to look at the cost in terms of assets. No way do I give up the 8th pick OR Ariza. They are far too valuable in terms of potential and how cheap they are.

Assets I would move would be: Sweetney, 30th pick, next year's Spurs pick and KT. I don't think we really have any other assets. The expiring deals of Penny and Timmy don't seem like they'll be of value until next Feb.
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Bonn1997
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6/7/2005  1:16 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by Bonn1997:

I don't mind Isiah doing a few low ball offers. This offer doesn't sound much worse than offering Claxton for Baron Davis. Gasol has a huge long contract that teams won't take on because he's not a franchise player. I could see the Knicks obtaining Gasol eventually by giving up more than the initial offer (as I've written about on other posts) if Memphis is having the financial troubles they reportedly are having.
Gasol is not KVH. Gasol is somewhat soft but he's 7', a good rebounder, and ten times the shot-blocker Van Horn is.

They compare him to Keith Van Horn, b/c he needs to be semi spoon fed, he's kinda soft, and he dissapears when his team needs him the most. And if he get frustrated even a little (Watch the Knick Memphis game last December when KT and JYD embarrassed him) then he'll dissapear as well. He'd be a decent fit for the team, but I would much rather go in other directions. I'm not really a Gasol fan.
If Van Horn were 7' tall, 24, put up 18/9 on a 50 win team, could block 2 shots a game, but was still soft, I'd gladly (very gladly) take him on my team.
bigpimpin
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6/7/2005  1:16 PM
Noone said the 8th. It said Penny for Gasol.

So if I am comparing... I guess you are comparing Bynum to Garnett, Amare or Lebron.

Then to make matters worse you say that Lebron was an unknown quantity. lololol.

Dude, I'm talking about "proven" Gasol against "unproven" Bynum. When I watched Garnett, Lebron and Amare in high school All-Star games I didn't see Bynum and NEITHER DID YOU!
You can't twist my words.

For every 3 players from high school that made it big I can name you 30 that got taken and didn't do jack. For every Amare I can name you a Darko or a Diop

But forget it, the Knicks aren't taking Bynum at 8th anyway.
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
Pharzeone
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6/7/2005  1:19 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by gunsnewing:

Gasol is not as bad as crymdups is suggesting but its not worth taking on his contract for the 8th pick but if we can steal him then I'll be thrilled. I just don't think we'll be anything more than a Wizards like 1st or 2nd round playoff exit team with Gasol as our best bigman. Now put him alongside Bynum and we might have something really special!
there you go... it comes down to the deal. I have no problem with the Knicks taking on his contract. They can afford to do that. They cant afford to offer KT, TT, Ariza and pick 8 for JWill and Gasol, which is a Knick/Isiah type of trade.

I would max my offer at Tim Thomas plus either Sweetney or pick 30.
Fish didn't you start out this thread with your article that stated the Knicks were only offering Penny for Gasol, so where did this KT,TT, ARiza and pick 8 for Williams and Gasol come from?
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Bonn1997
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6/7/2005  1:26 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by gunsnewing:

Gasol is not as bad as crymdups is suggesting but its not worth taking on his contract for the 8th pick but if we can steal him then I'll be thrilled. I just don't think we'll be anything more than a Wizards like 1st or 2nd round playoff exit team with Gasol as our best bigman. Now put him alongside Bynum and we might have something really special!
there you go... it comes down to the deal. I have no problem with the Knicks taking on his contract. They can afford to do that. They cant afford to offer KT, TT, Ariza and pick 8 for JWill and Gasol, which is a Knick/Isiah type of trade.

I would max my offer at Tim Thomas plus either Sweetney or pick 30.
Fish didn't you start out this thread with your article that stated the Knicks were only offering Penny for Gasol, so where did this KT,TT, ARiza and pick 8 for Williams and Gasol come from?
Fish and Briggs post nonstop trade proposals ridiculing the Knicks about trading the lottery pick for Ray Allen, Michael Finley, Pau Gasol, Zach Randolph, Lamar Odom, Big Z and any other player you can think of.
Killa4luv
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6/7/2005  1:37 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by Bonn1997:

I don't mind Isiah doing a few low ball offers. This offer doesn't sound much worse than offering Claxton for Baron Davis. Gasol has a huge long contract that teams won't take on because he's not a franchise player. I could see the Knicks obtaining Gasol eventually by giving up more than the initial offer (as I've written about on other posts) if Memphis is having the financial troubles they reportedly are having.
Gasol is not KVH. Gasol is somewhat soft but he's 7', a good rebounder, and ten times the shot-blocker Van Horn is.

They compare him to Keith Van Horn, b/c he needs to be semi spoon fed, he's kinda soft, and he dissapears when his team needs him the most. And if he get frustrated even a little (Watch the Knick Memphis game last December when KT and JYD embarrassed him) then he'll dissapear as well. He'd be a decent fit for the team, but I would much rather go in other directions. I'm not really a Gasol fan.
If Van Horn were 7' tall, 24, put up 18/9 on a 50 win team, could block 2 shots a game, but was still soft, I'd gladly (very gladly) take him on my team.
But this is the part that I really love. He's 24 in his 4th year in the league, has a career average of 18 and 8, but he has maxed out as a player? What other 24 year old player is that being said about?

Gasol would be good (not perfect) for us at the PF. He could pick and pop and also has the skills to drive to the basket. He can play with his back to the basket as well as face up, and he blocks about 2 shots per game. I'd take that in a heart beat. He already does those things. Bynums upside is higher because he is bigger and will be stronger and will be playing C, but Gasol has the skills that we would hope Bynum would develop. Gasol isn't my top choice, but he can do many things that we don't have right now and he is 7 feet.


[Edited by - Killa4luv on 06/07/2005 13:42:58]
franco12
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6/7/2005  1:40 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by gunsnewing:

Gasol is not as bad as crymdups is suggesting but its not worth taking on his contract for the 8th pick but if we can steal him then I'll be thrilled. I just don't think we'll be anything more than a Wizards like 1st or 2nd round playoff exit team with Gasol as our best bigman. Now put him alongside Bynum and we might have something really special!
there you go... it comes down to the deal. I have no problem with the Knicks taking on his contract. They can afford to do that. They cant afford to offer KT, TT, Ariza and pick 8 for JWill and Gasol, which is a Knick/Isiah type of trade.

I would max my offer at Tim Thomas plus either Sweetney or pick 30.
Fish didn't you start out this thread with your article that stated the Knicks were only offering Penny for Gasol, so where did this KT,TT, ARiza and pick 8 for Williams and Gasol come from?
Fish and Briggs post nonstop trade proposals ridiculing the Knicks about trading the lottery pick for Ray Allen, Michael Finley, Pau Gasol, Zach Randolph, Lamar Odom, Big Z and any other player you can think of.

I also think that if Isiah was serious, you start low and see where you end up- I said Penny & 8 for Gasol- personally, I wouldn't do it, but, jerry west might be forced to for monetary reasons- pick 8 gets them a chance to replace Gasol- face it, the very fact that he can be (incorrectly or not) compared to KVH speaks volumes. No one could ever compare Amare and KVH unless it was to say both are basketball players and that is a stretch
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