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Nalod
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5/7/2005  11:01 PM
SUns finished with best regualar season record. They don't do with out nash.

Team did not do well without him.

As I said, Shaq nursed himself out of MVP.

Good logic went into his picking.

Shaq is the most valuable player, but based on the above logic, you can't give it to Shaq or Duncan. Its just an award.
AUTOADVERT
TheloniusMonk
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5/8/2005  2:42 AM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Do you think that the KIDD vs DUNCAN MVP race had anything to do with Nash getting landing MVP. It might have not been the main reason but do you think it had a part???
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
TheloniusMonk
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5/8/2005  2:50 AM
Posted by nykshaknbake:

What I'm doing? Suppressing? I'm just saying you have no proof for your accusations and that it's irresponsible to accuse someone of racism without that. I'm very willing to discuss it and most people are I beleive, but too often it's just used to smear innocent people whom others don't agree with. Usually in these cases, they have nothing to back up their claims..kinda like you right now. In this case, I don't think I'm suppressing anything..and I would love hear how I am.


[I believe that "race issues" will continue to go on as long as people do what you're doing. Surpressing any talk of it. Is there racism in the world? Yes. But usually if people bring it up (mainly black and/or Latino) so many people take the stance that you're taking....dismiss it automatically. That is how problems continue to repeat themselves. No one wants to discuss it.

" Used by slavers and white supremacists up through the first half of the 20th century to propagate their hate and help people like themselves and now used primarily by African American and Latinos to do the same."

Why hate? If a group a person (or group of people) get the short end of the stick more often than not it's moreso about tapping into the conscience of the offender. This IS the NBA and not half as important and much more serious issues that plague the world (this nation in particular).

So since this IS an NBA message board, my vote goes to Tim Duncan. This guy constantly plays well at both ends of the floor. Not to mention that I still believe that he and the Spurs will find a way to get it done this year. Don't quote me now, but I'm leaning towards a Maimi vs. San Antonio finals and it will all come down to the health of the two big men.

Nash, I like him. But I've seen him play on other teams (namely the Mavs) whp run and gun and play no defense. Only question I have is, who would you want on your team if you're up by one point with 10 seconds left and you need that one stop.....Nash, Duncan or Shaq? What if Pheonix is up with 10 seconds on the clock and Nash has to stop Wade, Parker or Billups out on the perimeter? What then?

Tim Duncan MVP



Id love to see the racial breakdown of these so-called panelists. It's unbelievable that sportswriters are allowed even 1 vote anyway. Most of these guys haven't even played hoop at a higher level than intremural HS. Steve Nash was great, absolutley, but a blind frog would know that Shaq was the MVP, no questions asked. You just hate to see this kind of racial snub, and that is what it is. It's gross negligence, stupid and sets time back, what else can you say?
[/quote]

Hey Mr. IQ. Ever since Jim Crow laws and other laws that enforced racist tactics have been "abolished", RACISM IS NOW VERY HARD TO DETECT AND EASY TO DENY. This means that it exixts (just like many other posters here recognize) but it is now very difficult to police. Got that? How can one have "proof" of racism if they do not have a conversation on tape of people actually talking about what they plan on doing? Ridiculous. It's not rocket science as to why these things bare no "proof".

I don't think I need to say too much more to you about this topic. You've exposed who you are already. You do not need me to help you. Keep on with the retoric, I don't mind at all.

2005 = Steve Nash ringless once again.

Don't hate the messengers.
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
nykshaknbake
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5/8/2005  10:55 AM
How do you know ho smart I am anyway? Or just talking out of your ass? Thought so.

Hey Mr. IQ.

There are other ways. How many lawsuits are filed and won of racial discrimination? They go by testimony of others and a definable pattern. Just like any other crime. If you can accuse anyone of racism without any proof or justification, than the accusation is worthless and in the end all racism charges, even legitimate ones will be dismissed as is starting to happen because people play the race card so much.

Ever since Jim Crow laws and other laws that enforced racist tactics have been "abolished", RACISM IS NOW VERY HARD TO DETECT AND EASY TO DENY. This means that it exixts (just like many other posters here recognize) but it is now very difficult to police. Got that? How can one have "proof" of racism if they do not have a conversation on tape of people actually talking about what they plan on doing? Ridiculous. It's not rocket science as to why these things bare no "proof".

Personal attacks are a great sign that you don't have a point to make.

I don't think I need to say too much more to you about this topic. You've exposed who you are already. You do not need me to help you. Keep on with the retoric, I don't mind at all.

2005 = Steve Nash ringless once again.

I don't know what you're talking about.

Don't hate the messengers.
[/quote]
Bobby
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5/8/2005  2:18 PM
Posted by tomverve:

We shouldn't forget that the MVP is awarded before the Finals. If the voters had known Kidd would've taken the Nets to the Finals, they may well have chosen him (although it still would have been a poor choice).

not so fast tom, kidd, single handedly took nets record to a 52-30 season compared to duncan's 53-29. poor choice?....i dont think so.

and just for the heck-of-it, kidd would've crushed duncan if jason trades with duncan's image.

"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
Killa4luv
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5/8/2005  5:31 PM
Posted by Bobby:
Posted by tomverve:

We shouldn't forget that the MVP is awarded before the Finals. If the voters had known Kidd would've taken the Nets to the Finals, they may well have chosen him (although it still would have been a poor choice).

not so fast tom, kidd, single handedly took nets record to a 52-30 season compared to duncan's 53-29. poor choice?....i dont think so.

and just for the heck-of-it, kidd would've crushed duncan if jason trades with duncan's image.

both of their teams suck without them, but Kidd's supporting cat was mediocre.
Killa4luv
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5/8/2005  5:41 PM
Posted by teslawlo:
Posted by Killa4luv:

When I say race is a factor and people say "playing the race card" it sounds stupid to me. Unfortunately, for black and latino people, race isn't a 'card' that is ever 'played' that gives us an advantage at anything. The whole idea is stupid, and is actually racist: The idea that blacks and latinos can somehow use their non-whiteness to their advantage in society. Its like turning the world on it's head, where does this ever happen? Please let me know so I can hurry up and cash in on my blackness, since its such an advantage.
The NBA consistently scores as one of the most racially diverse and fair leagues year after year because of the diverse backgrounds of people in the league. Where else do you see a profession where blacks, whites, and now even Hispanics and Asians are forced to cooperate in order to get anything done night after night? Now, I am not naive enough to think that racism has completely left the world, but I do not believe that nash won the MVP solely because he was white. I believe it more had to do something with the dumb sportswriters going with whoever was the latest "fad" of sorts - whoever was the main factor behind the latest hot team to be a bandwagon fan of.
And if you want an example of how race affects us in ordinary life, let me point out the college admissions process - it takes an asian male an almost perfect SAT score to get into a good college guaranteed, whereas a white male does not need such a high score and a black male needs an even slightly lower one. Before calling me racist, go look up the statistics - it's right there.
1. I never called you a racist, I called an idea racist.
2. I never said Nash won the award soley because he was white.

Somehow "Race is a factor" = "Race was the only factor".

Thats not what I said, or what anybody is saying. Obviously he is a candidate for obvious reasons, he led the league in assists and his team had the best record in the regular season. So the idea of race being the only factor is stupid, and is a point no one here is making.

As for you Affirmative action stats, show me something. Shoot me a link or something. AA has helped white women more than any other group. And I don't know what you hoped to prove with your example anyway. If you are trying to prove that Blackness is an advantage in society or something, you can spare both of us the waste in time. I have friends in prison for being black and 'fitting a description' and nothing more. That SAT shi.t doesn't move me at all.

[Edited by - Killa4luv on 05/08/2005 21:59:35]
TheloniusMonk
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5/8/2005  6:05 PM
Posted by nykshaknbake:

How do you know ho smart I am anyway? Or just talking out of your ass? Thought so.

Hey Mr. IQ.

There are other ways. How many lawsuits are filed and won of racial discrimination? They go by testimony of others and a definable pattern. Just like any other crime. If you can accuse anyone of racism without any proof or justification, than the accusation is worthless and in the end all racism charges, even legitimate ones will be dismissed as is starting to happen because people play the race card so much.

Ever since Jim Crow laws and other laws that enforced racist tactics have been "abolished", RACISM IS NOW VERY HARD TO DETECT AND EASY TO DENY. This means that it exixts (just like many other posters here recognize) but it is now very difficult to police. Got that? How can one have "proof" of racism if they do not have a conversation on tape of people actually talking about what they plan on doing? Ridiculous. It's not rocket science as to why these things bare no "proof".

Personal attacks are a great sign that you don't have a point to make.

I don't think I need to say too much more to you about this topic. You've exposed who you are already. You do not need me to help you. Keep on with the retoric, I don't mind at all.

2005 = Steve Nash ringless once again.

I don't know what you're talking about.

Don't hate the messengers.

[/quote]

I know how smart u are, it's not that hard to tell.

For instance, you're talking about racism being proven in a "court of law" in a situation where people here are expressing an opinion of a particular situation in the NBA. Are we in the court of law? No. Are there any witnesses on the stand in a court of law at present? No. Is there anyone on this board who would be issued a subpena based on their inside knowledge on this situation? No. WE are just looking at stats and patterns and we have formed an opinion. Here comes someone talking about a person needs "proof" beyond a shadow of a doubt. This is the point that is being raised in saying that once a person brings up race people like you come along and automatically try and say it has no merit. This situation is not important enough to bring to a court of law. It is just a model of what happens in everyday life across the nation. This is widely known. For instance, have you ever known of an MVP who is incapable of playing defense? Looking for that is like looking for the part in Kojack's head. It ain't there. You saw Shaq's reaction to Nash's win. He talked about Nash being a "good guy" and having "twins". Said very little about the legitimacy of him being worthy of the award on the court. It is what it is. Why? I will say it slower this time: These days: RACISM......IS.....HARDER....TO...DETECT....AND....EASIER....TO...DENY.

That shouldn't be too hard to understand.
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
nykshaknbake
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5/8/2005  9:59 PM
Really? Tell me then...I would not presume to know your intelligence level, but would like to know how you became the judge of others.

I know how smart u are, it's not that hard to tell.

Well in this case, you can find out who was around these people and question them and see if they're racist. Testimony of peers..doesn't have to be in a court of law, doesn't take an idiot to know that. I'm sure you grasp this, even if you don't want to.

For instance, you're talking about racism being proven in a "court of law" in a situation where people here are expressing an opinion of a particular situation in the NBA. Are we in the court of law? No. Are there any witnesses on the stand in a court of law at present?
No. Is there anyone on this board who would be issued a subpena based on their inside knowledge on this situation? No.

Funny I haven't seen any stats up, just opinions. I would like to know how you think it's all stats then? Do you read the minds of other posters? I just go by what's written.

WE are just looking at stats and patterns and we have formed an opinion.

I never said proof beyond a shadow of a doubt because that is an impossibility. I can't even prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that I had cereal for breakfast to anyone. beyond a shadow of doubt are your words..don't shove them in my mouth..that's just dishonest.

Here comes someone talking about a person needs "proof" beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Again I never said it has no merit, but the way it was brought, it was unsupported. Stop shoving words in my mouth.

This is the point that is being raised in saying that once a person brings up race people like you come along and automatically try and say it has no merit.

Well it's widely known that the race card is played unjustly too. There have been alot of lives ruined b/c someone who wasn't was branded a racist by someone who didn't like them.

This situation is not important enough to bring to a court of law. It is just a model of what happens in everyday life across the nation. This is widely known.

Look, I woulda voted for Shaq. But I don't thin it was unreasonable Nash got the award. His team sucked without him. He led the NBA in assists and pretty much ran their whole offense. Marion is the only dude on that whole team who plays D anyway. So their winning wasn't by virtue of their D. They got the best record for their O, which Nash was responsible for. Shaq was injured alot of the season and Wade was just as instrumental in their great season as well.

For instance, have you ever known of an MVP who is incapable of playing defense? Looking for that is like looking for the part in Kojack's head. It ain't there. You saw Shaq's reaction to Nash's win. He talked about Nash being a "good guy" and having "twins". Said very little about the legitimacy of him being worthy of the award on the court. It is what it is. Why?

I'll better you by one. JUST.....BECAUSE....IT'S..... HARDER..... TO DETECT........ DOESN'T ........MEAN .........IT'S......... THERE....... ALL....... THE......... TIME. Example: Strep throat can b\usually be detected by a rapid strep test...sometimes it is still present despite the test being positive. However, it would be ridculous to presume that a negative test only masked a positive result all the time. Maybe now you understand? Anyway, stop the insults, please..I can keep pace with you but that hinders communication and I doubt you really know enough about me to hate me yet.

I will say it slower this time: These days: RACISM......IS.....HARDER....TO...DETECT....AND....EASIER....TO...DENY.

That shouldn't be too hard to understand.
[/quote]
TheloniusMonk
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5/8/2005  11:14 PM
Posted by nykshaknbake:

Really? Tell me then...I would not presume to know your intelligence level, but would like to know how you became the judge of others.

Well in this case, you can find out who was around these people and question them and see if they're racist. Testimony of peers..doesn't have to be in a court of law, doesn't take an idiot to know that. I'm sure you grasp this, even if you don't want to.

Funny I haven't seen any stats up, just opinions. I would like to know how you think it's all stats then? Do you read the minds of other posters? I just go by what's written.

I never said proof beyond a shadow of a doubt because that is an impossibility. I can't even prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that I had cereal for breakfast to anyone. beyond a shadow of doubt are your words..don't shove them in my mouth..that's just dishonest.
[/quote]

OK, Man, you are officially obssessed with this topic. That was a lot of info (or misinformation) that you typed up there lol. You have gone through my entire entree and talked about each and every point to no avail. Here's what I'll do, I listed your main points above and I'll just put them to rest.

1) Talk about putting words into a person's mouth. When did I say I was a judge of people? My point was you obviously do not know much about THIS topic. That's what I implied.

2) Ask around to see if a person is a racist? lol Ok, I'll pretty much leave that alone.

3) You say "funny I havent seen any stats just opinions." ...... Then you asked do I "read poster's minds."....... You say you just go by "what's written".
Hmmmmm.....Ok you would be the one to MISS the fact that on page one of this post BRIGGS gave a link to John Stocktons old stats. He did this so that it could be compared to Steve Nash's to prove his point about Steve Nash not deserving an MVP nod. Want more stats? Ok, Here's another one you skipped over: Killa4luv posted on i beleive it was page one or two the stats of Iverson this season and said Iverson deserved consideration compared to Nash. Pay attention. Want more stats? Ok: Killa4luv also posted, on that same page might I add, Jason Kidd's stats when he had one of his stellar years. This was to be compared to Nash's. Jason Kidd never won the MVP award. Before you insult me by asking me "do I read poster's minds" read the posts yourself. See, this is exactly why people end up being ignorant about topics. They don't take the time out to look at the actual facts which cause them to make false statements. Don't believe me though. I could be lying. Look on the first two pages or so. This way you can catch up to the topic at hand.

And by the way, I said "Nash 2005 = ringless once again" because in case you're unaware, he use to play for a team called the Dallas Mavs where he lead a team to alot of wins, no defense...which led to NO RINGS. It was a play on words to indicate that Steve Nash in 2005 (that means now) will once again be ringless. This notion is born out of my belief that Steve Nash is not an MVP type of player because he does not play D. Duncan and Shaq do.

Look at past MVP's:

Jordan
KG
Duncan
Iverson (top of the league in steals that year)
Shaq
Malone

Try really really really really hard to think of an MVP who did not play defense like Steve "one end of the court" Nash. And this time PLEASE read the stats. If not, ask me and I'll give you some more stats.
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Bobby
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5/8/2005  11:17 PM
nash had beat shaq by 34 points. if shaq could've avoided soap-box derby with kobe and buss,it may have been possible for shaq to have acquired more first place votes. no way shaq loses to nash....... until now
"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
Pharzeone
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5/9/2005  12:07 PM
Posted by VDesai:

IMO, Nash as MVP is a joke. I agree he might not have even been the MVP of his own team. If this was an MVP year, I'm not sure how John Stockton doesn't have 3 trophies right now.
This is the best post I seen about the MVP vote. Not to knock Nash but it wasn't MVP numbers. And he wasn't the MVP on his team. His defense was horrible, a stat not used for Nash at all. Thank the man above for the Suns getting Q Richardson and remembering what was successful for them. J-Kidd's best days as a Sun was when he had Rex out on the wing. Sorry Marbs, no outside shooters for you. Stockton, hell Kevin Johnson had better seasons than Nash's and he played with Tom Chambers (sorry all you Chambers fans).
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Pharzeone
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5/9/2005  12:34 PM
Posted by nykshaknbake:

Ah, the good ole' race card. Used by slavers and white supremacists up through the first half of the 20th century to propagate their hate and help people like themselves and now used primarily by African American and Latinos to do the same. I think it's really irresponsible to throw that around without something more solid than it's my hunch or whatever. Racism is a serious charge but people just spew it out so readily and casually without any proof what so ever.
LOL, if you don't think the NBA is about marketing white players you are nuts. They have no choice but admit to it. Just pull up a chair and listen to a Larry Bird interview, or listen to Rick Barry. When the race card was used by Wally Szcerbiak a couple of weeks ago (btw, a white player), he was reminded by the press and friends that the reason why he got his 70 million dollar contract a couple of years ago was "the next Bird" comparision. I remember when Bird joked a couple of years ago that he wished he was coming out of school now, so he could have a chance to be considered the next "Larry Bird" and get paid based on that. I would like to get that transcript of the Mike and the Mad Dogg in 2002 or 2003 show when Chris asked Stern about the NBA ratings and how white viewers can't relate to these "guys". It was a decent conversation about marketing NBA players and if it is needed, what steps, and so on. Stern responded about marketing the Euro guys but added Nash in there too. Hell if I was Stern I would market a guy like Nash too. He ain't stupid.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Pharzeone
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5/9/2005  12:47 PM
Posted by Bobby:
Posted by tomverve:

We shouldn't forget that the MVP is awarded before the Finals. If the voters had known Kidd would've taken the Nets to the Finals, they may well have chosen him (although it still would have been a poor choice).

not so fast tom, kidd, single handedly took nets record to a 52-30 season compared to duncan's 53-29. poor choice?....i dont think so.

and just for the heck-of-it, kidd would've crushed duncan if jason trades with duncan's image.
J-Kidd flourished in the 01-02 season but like Nash things got a hell of a lot better for him when he arrived. Seems to have been stressed more with Kidd than Nash (ironically Marbs is in both spots, I guess if the Knicks trade him for someone I expect them to win the MVP and at least take the Knick to the finals)
Kidd was still feeling backlash from his domestic violence issue, too. Kidd does not have the clean background that Nash has. Hell I thought AI was running for some political office back in 2001, with how much he had to change his image to even get consideration.

[Edited by - pharzeone on 05/09/2005 12:57:53]
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
jazz74
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5/9/2005  12:55 PM
i wouldn't say that it is concerning racial problems more than image problems. shaq should be mvp but he has too many enemies and make waves. nash improved his team record and is a great team player who everyone likes. i was kind of shocked to hear nash getting it but i did not expect o'neal to get it either. o'neal has been injured for most of the season and though he was a main factor he wasn't the sole reason for their success. i would have given wade considerable mvp consideration. he has been the most consistent player in the nba. iverson should have also been the premier choice. but there is also one more person who should have been above nash in the mvp voting: ray allen. he has been clutch as the leader of his team leading them to a good record. he took basically the same team from last year and made them better. he did it all: defense, shoot took it to the hole and pass. whereas nash had a very healthy squad with quenton richardson to run up and down the floor with. allen, o'neal and iverson all had a history of "image" problems from feuds ( allen vs. kobe, shaq vs. kobe and buss) to arrests. that is why when you brought up duncan vs. kidd for mvp, duncan has the edge because of his image whereas j kidd at the time had the stigmatation of a wife abuser.
Nalod
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5/9/2005  1:08 PM
I think you guys are reading too much into conspiricy.

PHX had the best record in the league, and in the toughest division!

SHaq rested himself, even when healthy.

Nash's game had a magnified effect on his teamates. Shaq also!

Shaq finished very close in voting. He rested, and some might have a hard time voting for that.

ITs not always the best player that gets it, just this year, this time, it was Nash!
Pharzeone
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5/9/2005  2:24 PM
Posted by Nalod:

I think you guys are reading too much into conspiricy.

PHX had the best record in the league, and in the toughest division!

SHaq rested himself, even when healthy.

Nash's game had a magnified effect on his teamates. Shaq also!

Shaq finished very close in voting. He rested, and some might have a hard time voting for that.

ITs not always the best player that gets it, just this year, this time, it was Nash!
I would buy your explanation Nalod if Nash wasn't the weakess MVPs of recent memory. Please do not take the lack of defense reason too lightly. If you are going to give it to a guard then please, AI was better this year than his MVP year with much less help and possibly less coaching input. Baron Davis was right on when he said that Allen Iverson should have been given much more consideration. Just go to www.nba.com to compare stats of Nash and Iverson. They aren't even in the same league. Nash only leads Iverson in assist and FG% (omg, I can't remember when I last heard a MVP being described as worthy because of FG%, but there it was on ABC on Sunday, FG% stat with his assist stat). Please don't tell me it because the Suns finished with a better record than the 76ers because if you switch players, and put Iverson in the west that guy would put up IMMORTAL HOF numbers while Nash would be getting knock around by the likes the Wallaces. I'm not even an Iverson fan but I have resources, and watch the games. LOL, I still can't get over 15.5 ppg (Ranks 40th). And let me say this I am more impress with Iverson's and for that matter Marbury's 8 assist a game to Nash's 11. You would think his assist should be much higher.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Nalod
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5/9/2005  3:53 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Nalod:

I think you guys are reading too much into conspiricy.

PHX had the best record in the league, and in the toughest division!

SHaq rested himself, even when healthy.

Nash's game had a magnified effect on his teamates. Shaq also!

Shaq finished very close in voting. He rested, and some might have a hard time voting for that.

ITs not always the best player that gets it, just this year, this time, it was Nash!
I would buy your explanation Nalod if Nash wasn't the weakess MVPs of recent memory. Please do not take the lack of defense reason too lightly. If you are going to give it to a guard then please, AI was better this year than his MVP year with much less help and possibly less coaching input. Baron Davis was right on when he said that Allen Iverson should have been given much more consideration. Just go to www.nba.com to compare stats of Nash and Iverson. They aren't even in the same league. Nash only leads Iverson in assist and FG% (omg, I can't remember when I last heard a MVP being described as worthy because of FG%, but there it was on ABC on Sunday, FG% stat with his assist stat). Please don't tell me it because the Suns finished with a better record than the 76ers because if you switch players, and put Iverson in the west that guy would put up IMMORTAL HOF numbers while Nash would be getting knock around by the likes the Wallaces. I'm not even an Iverson fan but I have resources, and watch the games. LOL, I still can't get over 15.5 ppg (Ranks 40th). And let me say this I am more impress with Iverson's and for that matter Marbury's 8 assist a game to Nash's 11. You would think his assist should be much higher.

There is nothing that I disagree with you on, If Nash's team say finished as a 7th seed in the east, or say 14th-15th in the league, he might have not gotten a vote! I would take Iverson over nash any day, I would even take marbury over nash, but Iverson on PHX go from 29 wins to top seed in the league? Maybe. No doubt he would put up great stats, but much less touches for Marion and Amare.

Is PHX a .500 team without him? Nope. Is heat? Yep. Spurs without duncan? Yep.

Stat wise, Marbs avgs a good many assists. Statwise, a 20ppg, 8 assist season average is awsome. Not if your team don't win.

Writers see many more games than we do. They see that things that don't show up in stats. Stats tell an incomplete story INHO.

Could Nash win it again next year? I doubt it. It was just one of those things.
Killa4luv
Posts: 27768
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 6/23/2002
Member: #261
USA
5/9/2005  4:05 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

I think Allen Iverson deserves some serious considreration as well.

Ranks #1 in the NBA in Points Per Game(30.7)
Ranks #5 in the NBA in Assists Per Game(7.9)
Ranks #2 in the NBA in Steals Per Game(2.4)
Ranks #2 in the NBA in Minutes Per Game(42.3)
Ranks #2 in the NBA in Field Goals Made(771.0)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Free Throws(656.0)
Ranks #2 in the NBA in Free Throw Attempts(786.0)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Steals(180.0)

I mean couuld they mention his name at least? His team is in the playoffs and he is the reason. Without him they are easily one of the worst teams in the league.
I made the case for AI.

NALOD,

You are crazyu if you are saying that PHX doesn't win 42 or more games without Nash. Thats is pure craziness. They have a very good player at every position, there is no way that without Nash they fall under 42 games. I would go as far to say that they still win 50 games with their squad minus Nash.
Pharzeone
Posts: 32183
Alba Posts: 14
Joined: 2/11/2005
Member: #871
5/9/2005  4:43 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by Killa4luv:

I think Allen Iverson deserves some serious considreration as well.

Ranks #1 in the NBA in Points Per Game(30.7)
Ranks #5 in the NBA in Assists Per Game(7.9)
Ranks #2 in the NBA in Steals Per Game(2.4)
Ranks #2 in the NBA in Minutes Per Game(42.3)
Ranks #2 in the NBA in Field Goals Made(771.0)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Free Throws(656.0)
Ranks #2 in the NBA in Free Throw Attempts(786.0)
Ranks #1 in the NBA in Steals(180.0)

I mean couuld they mention his name at least? His team is in the playoffs and he is the reason. Without him they are easily one of the worst teams in the league.
I made the case for AI.

NALOD,

You are crazyu if you are saying that PHX doesn't win 42 or more games without Nash. Thats is pure craziness. They have a very good player at every position, there is no way that without Nash they fall under 42 games. I would go as far to say that they still win 50 games with their squad minus Nash.
Look at those rankings, MVP does not have to do with how many wins your teams has. It is about your value to your team. Killa is right. Most of the success the Suns were earlier on, they actually had a good second half. If we are going to start and play these games then, well take Nash off the Suns, I still see 2 other all-star type players on the Suns, and Q Richardson (one of the best shooters in the game). They will be o.k. in a weak, yes I said it weak west, where defense is optional to winning. Take AI off the Sixers, you know what you got, not a whole hell of a lot. The Bad News Bears of Basketball or something.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
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