[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

What is Isiah's plan for the Knicks (Isiah Genius! Isiah Disaster! part 2)?
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 3 of 4 ‹ Previous 1  2  3  4 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
fishmike
Posts: 53867
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
3/9/2005  2:14 PM
then why did we trade for Mo Taylor and Malik Rose? Why sign KT to an extension? Why sign Vin Baker for $8mm instead of a rookie FA like Theron Smith?

If you want to project and guess about what will happen in 2-3 years thats fine. I'm not guessing, I'm looking at the current team and the direction we are going in. That direction is we have commited ourselves for 2-3 years with a core of players that arent young. What you guys are talking about is what your hoping will happen, but there is nothing that says it will or wont. Isiah has traded just as many picks as he's aquired.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
AUTOADVERT
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
3/9/2005  2:48 PM
I agree, there have been some odd moves, but he has done what he said he would do, make us younger and more athletic, I am quite confident that the roster you see now is not the one we will have next year, so the signing of rose(to get the picks) and taylor, probably will be clarified more during the summer..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
djsunyc
Posts: 44929
Alba Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
3/9/2005  2:53 PM
again, this team can not get out of this MESS with a GM that makes one good move and one "odd" (i.e. bad) move. we need one that makes ALL good moves otherwise the process will either:

A. take longer than anticipated or
B. set us back even further.

right now, to me, isiah is in category "A".
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
3/9/2005  4:27 PM
Just because a move doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it was a bad move. What GM has made moves where 100% of them has made sense to the casual fans?
djsunyc
Posts: 44929
Alba Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
3/9/2005  4:31 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Just because a move doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it was a bad move. What GM has made moves where 100% of them has made sense to the casual fans?

i'm not a casual fan. i post on a knicks message board all day when i should be working, so none of us are casual fans. i've been watching this team since 87 (when i first got cable) and have followed the team since then.

btw, just b/c a move MAKES sense to YOU doesn't mean it was a good move.
fishmike
Posts: 53867
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
3/9/2005  4:37 PM
werent you a season ticket holder?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
3/9/2005  4:43 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bonn1997:

Just because a move doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it was a bad move. What GM has made moves where 100% of them has made sense to the casual fans?

i'm not a casual fan. i post on a knicks message board all day when i should be working, so none of us are casual fans. i've been watching this team since 87 (when i first got cable) and have followed the team since then.

btw, just b/c a move MAKES sense to YOU doesn't mean it was a good move.

Then let's just pretend the word casual wasn't in the sentence and you can answer it that way.
misterearl
Posts: 38786
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/16/2004
Member: #799
USA
3/9/2005  4:44 PM
I dont resent Isiah... I think he's a good talent evaluator with the draft. His used car saleman snakelike personality doesnt bother me... I think its a positive for his job.

Why must Isiah be characetrized as a snake? Used car salesman? fish.mike I think you extremely personal bias against Isiah is starting to show its ugly racist head. Yup, you damn skippy I'm playing the race card right here.... unless you have some valid reason for inflammatory personal attacks. Have you ever met or talked wtih him??

What is your personality "profile" of Isiah Thomas based on?

More important, why is it "snakelike" when the same moves, made by another GM would be termed "strategic"?

>>So far I'm neither impressed with the players he's brought in or the position we are in.

So far, I'm not impressed with your appreciation for how long it takes to revise a franchise. without blowing the whole thing to bits. Just because its not on YOUR terms, does NOT make it wrong.

>>we are in a bad position

Bad position? The Knicks are playing with passion, playing together and winning games?

Whats exactly the probblem here?

>>..and the players he's brought in have been up and down at best.

Up and down?

What does that mean? Oh, you mean the injury to Carwford and Tim Thomas' depression over some serious family issues?

>>We arent winning more games

Yes we are

>>and the pipeline isnt richer than any other team in the NBA.

What pipeline?

[Edited by - misterearl on 03/09/2005 16:51:01]
once a knick always a knick
simrud
Posts: 23392
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/13/2003
Member: #474
USA
3/9/2005  5:01 PM
Aight mistearl, now you finally said it, I was expecting you to come out with your racist bs since you implied that I somehow resent IT's power.

So let me guess this straight, now, if you don't like IT as a GM you don't like black people? Do you realize that anybody who would be a racist would never like bball cause 90% of the players are, guess what, black. Especially on the Knicks, who haent had a white impact player ever.

The only way you could be a racist and an NBA fan is if you were a Celtic fan in the Bird era. And non of use sure were, caue we are all Knick fans.

So you can take your witch hunting McCarthyeske allegations and stick them as far up your already stuck up @ss as possible and get out of here. Nobody here cares if you are black or white, or whatever, only a moron like you would even suggest that racism plays any kind of role in evaluating anything that has to do with basketball.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
misterearl
Posts: 38786
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/16/2004
Member: #799
USA
3/9/2005  5:10 PM
I musta struck a nerve

>>So let me guess this straight, now, if you don't like IT as a GM you don't like black people?

Never said that. I'm just trying to get to the root of the venom against Isiah.

It's painfully evident in the descriptions and accounts of his personality that something else is at work.

Playing the race card is just a deliberate means to look at ALL angles and continue the discussion on honest and open terms. If talking about race offends you then you can sit it out.

You telling me that people are color blind in their vocabulary selection?



once a knick always a knick
misterearl
Posts: 38786
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/16/2004
Member: #799
USA
3/9/2005  5:15 PM
>>Nobody here cares if you are black or white, or whatever, only a moron like you would even suggest that racism plays any kind of role in evaluating anything that has to do with basketball.

Okay I'm a moron for bringing it up. Thank you for the clarification.

Now, lets deal with it Simrud. What if people DO care. Personally, I think the talk about bringing Wally Szerbiak back to New York played well with the same audience (including me) that wanted Chris Mullin. If it was only about homeboy status, why hasn't there been more press clamoring for Lamar Odom?

On the contrary Simrud, people DO see race.

ALL Evaluation IS subjective.

You wanna have an intelligent and open discussion or stick your head in the sand?

once a knick always a knick
Marv
Posts: 35540
Alba Posts: 69
Joined: 9/2/2002
Member: #315
3/9/2005  5:26 PM
i'd never rule out racism being subtly there in any of our comments because I think we've all grown up with it woven into every thread of our society. It's hard to always see it through the fabric. At the same time I'd never rule out a comment about Isiah being snakelike or a used car salesman as being straight-up accurate either. His background is legendarily full of incidents and relationships where he has pissed the hell out of a great many people from a great many backgrounds and they've often independently referred to him as devious and untrustworthy. That old personality dynamics thing again. He has a style that's been known to blow up in his face, and it has at different times for 25 years.
misterearl
Posts: 38786
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/16/2004
Member: #799
USA
3/9/2005  5:28 PM
>>Nobody here cares if you are black or white, or whatever, only a moron like you would even suggest that racism plays any kind of role in evaluating anything that has to do with basketball.

Personally, I think it would be way cool and cosmoplitan if the Knicks had developed a Euro player like Maciej Lampe (who many fell inlove with on Draft Night and hated to see traded) , or Milos Vujanic or even Eric Chenowith .

We missed on Kiki Vandeweghe by one freakin' draft pick. By the time he arived he was past his prime.

New York fans wanted to love Paul Westphal but he was too old.

Ernie Grunfeld shoulda never left.
once a knick always a knick
fishmike
Posts: 53867
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
3/9/2005  5:31 PM
He's got a long detailed history of shady behavior. I wouldnt can him yet though. Any GM should get at least 3 years to fix this kind of mess. His last group of trades was suspect but he's also shown to be a good talent evaluator in the past, at least with the draft. Lets see our roster next year opening day. He did a good job upgrading the backcourt last year, lets see the froncourt get changed this offseason. What we have right now is 5 undersized PFs with unfriendly deals (except Sweetney). The upside to a big run to end this year is you hope some of that group of 5 gets their value inflated and winds up being a commodity.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Killa4luv
Posts: 27769
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 6/23/2002
Member: #261
USA
3/9/2005  5:42 PM
Posted by simrud:

Aight mistearl, now you finally said it, I was expecting you to come out with your racist bs since you implied that I somehow resent IT's power.

So let me guess this straight, now, if you don't like IT as a GM you don't like black people? Do you realize that anybody who would be a racist would never like bball cause 90% of the players are, guess what, black. Especially on the Knicks, who haent had a white impact player ever.

The only way you could be a racist and an NBA fan is if you were a Celtic fan in the Bird era. And non of use sure were, caue we are all Knick fans.

So you can take your witch hunting McCarthyeske allegations and stick them as far up your already stuck up @ss as possible and get out of here. Nobody here cares if you are black or white, or whatever, only a moron like you would even suggest that racism plays any kind of role in evaluating anything that has to do with basketball.
While i understand your position, I totally disagree. Just because you like a sport dominated by another race doesn't make you immune to racism. Not even close in fact. THis is a game and all you have to do is watch and root for a team.

I think some very good points were brought up in the movie "Do the Right Thing" in which one of the Pizzaria guys was asked who his favorite singer, basketball player and so on were. They were all black and that guy was certainly a racist dude. Not that he was all bad, but he held many racist notions, which came out in an argument.

One good indicator which MOST people of all races dont pass is the marry-your-child test. If your child tried to marry a black person (or a white if you're black) would you be cool with it? Would you like it, would you be indifferent or be uncomfortable with it (to put it lightly)?

Sim, this isn't an attack on you and these questions aren't solely meant for you, I just thought it would be interesting for people to think about.

There is clearly a racist double-standard in sports. I don't know how many times I hear about how smart some weak ass white players are. But i just wanted to post some food for thought.

[Edited by - Killa4luv on 03/09/2005 17:43:32]
misterearl
Posts: 38786
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/16/2004
Member: #799
USA
3/9/2005  5:47 PM
".. and the Knicks are OVER the limit"

And JUST for the Record Simrud

The GREATEST Knicks Coach of all Time was Red Holzman. Not just for the championships but for telling his team, "on offense you do what you want, on defense you do what I want"

My favorite Knick of all time is Bernard King. It's a damn shame he and Patrick never hooked up.

The GREATEST Knicks PA announcer of ALL Time was John Condon

And even though I've chatted with Mike Saunders, "Big Time" Danny Whelan is still the only trainer I've seen get a technical foul.

Oh yeah, most NY sportwriters are resentful hacks

I'm jus' sayin'
once a knick always a knick
Marv
Posts: 35540
Alba Posts: 69
Joined: 9/2/2002
Member: #315
3/9/2005  5:50 PM
Killa, just a quick aside since you brought up the "Do the Right Thing" scene. That was such a classic moment. Help me out with my memory - wasn't it John Turturro, and didn't he say his favorites were Eddie Murphy, Magic Johnson and Michael Jackson?

wait a minute, i'm channelling the memory banks - now i think it was stevie wonder.

[Edited by - marv on 03/09/2005 17:52:03]
misterearl
Posts: 38786
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/16/2004
Member: #799
USA
3/9/2005  6:02 PM
Say What?

>> He's got a long detailed history of shady behavior.

fish.mike - c'mon bro, you know the thing that pissed people off the most were his remarks about the Sacred Cow Larry Bird.

The CBA thing? Hey, bidness is bidness.

History of shady behavior? Care to elaborate this LONG history?

And if Isiah is such a shady character, how'd the hell he get to be President? of the Noo Yawk Freakin' Knicks?

C'mon... I sense something deeper at work here.

once a knick always a knick
fishmike
Posts: 53867
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
3/9/2005  6:22 PM
"C'mon... I sense something deeper at work here."

Not from me... I was glad when we hired him and despite his last moves which were suspect he's still has my patience. His last move, mainly Mo Taylor made no sense, but I maybe it does when we open the season next year.

I go out of my way to praise him w/ the CBA. He paid player's salaries out of his own pocket when teams couldnt make payroll.

This "venom" you speak of doesnt exist. Simrud doesnt like him, and never has. I dont have a problem with him. Now if you dont see how his personality rubs people the wrong way then its you who's blind. Why do you think everyone dogs him? From the media to player agents to Michael Jordan. The way you defend him you would think he's Jesus Christ.

Personally I think he deserves a fair shake. Why should he be exempt from criticism? When people defend his moves thus far their arguements are all based on things that havent happened yet, like how good we will be or how young we will be or my favorite "see you in 2 years."
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Kwazimodal
Posts: 20896
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 8/3/2004
Member: #728
3/9/2005  6:32 PM
Every Knicks GM has taken at least some heat for their moves,thats life in NYC.The further away from a championship we get,the less tolerant fans are going to be for what they perceive as mistakes made by any Knicks GM.

I dont believe anyone on this board should be even implying that someone is a racist without something concrete to back it up.Thats just sleazy.
Page 3 of 4 ‹ Previous 1  2  3  4 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
What is Isiah's plan for the Knicks (Isiah Genius! Isiah Disaster! part 2)?
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy