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possible trade being discussed according to david alridge
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Bonn1997
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1/14/2005  12:04 AM
I'd like this trade. I don't care about contracts. It's not my money; it's Dolan's. One thing you'll learn about me is that I don't mind spending other people's money!

Jalen's a good player. He instantly becomes our best player at the 2 or 3. Yes, he's better than Jamal right now even though Jamal has more upside. He'd actually also be our best backup PG.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 01/14/2005 00:31:27]
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newyorknewyork
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1/14/2005  1:00 AM
Muhammad/Webber/Baker
Webber/Sweetney/JYD
Rose/Ariza/JYD
Crawford/Houston
Marbury/Norris

Negatives: Isn't a championship calibre team. We would be throwing away any 08 cap relief. Crawford-Rose both take bad shots. Rose stunting Ariza's growth??, Webber stunting Sweetney's growth?? Losing Penny & TT's ending contracts. Adding more money to an already crazy cap straped team. Lack of D on the perimeter. Still lacks shotblocking. Webber & Houston are both huge health risk. Marbury-Houston-Webber combined would = a lot of teams whole salary cap. If we did these trades there would be no way out until after the 08 season.

Positives: A lot more bang for our buck. 61.6million produces 30pts 9.8rebs 5assist per game with our current lineup. With this lineup we would get a lot more production. Maybe we get picks out of the penny deal. Webber is exactly what Marbury needs. Rose & Webber are close friends maybe making Rose more team oriented, winning does solve problems. Webber would make every one better players. We would be a shotblocking/rebounding/defensive force at center & maintaining health away from truley being a title contender. Running the offense around Webber & Marbury's penitration together creates great looks for Rose & Crawford. Webber-Marbury pick and roll would contend with Nash & Stoud & Parker & Duncan for the best in the NBA. We no long would get destroyed in the paint on a nightly basis. Webber & Muhammad has us dominating every front court in the east other than Heat-Piston & Indy. Dominating frontcourt with Marbury in the backcourt would be very hard to match up with.

The risk might be to much to take.
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newyorknewyork
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1/14/2005  1:13 AM
Thinking about it Zeke could trade Penny for Rose straight up if he really wanted him. There would be no need for the 4 team trade. The only reason for it would be for Toronto to move Marshall to another team. But he has an ending contract so they shouldn't be that desperate to move him. So there has to be more to it, or info missing. Or maybe just not true.
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simrud
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1/14/2005  1:27 AM
Trading for Rose and then also Webber would be the worst thing to happen to the Knicks since the Ewing trade.

Webber and Rose are both 30+ yeah old players, Webber gets hurt for at least 25 games every yeah and then some. Rose is a team killer. Everywhere he goes teams hate him and can't wate to get rid of him like he was a hot potatoe.

We would be giving up TT and Penny, our last hope at getting a real big.

This happens, then you know what will happen?

We will be stuck with Houston, Rose, Marbury, Webber and Mohammed as our starting 5 till 2008. Of these players, not one players a lick of D. This means this team will be a .500 team every year.

I mean cmon, how many balls do have on the court? How do you imagine Rose, Marbury and Webber on the court at the same time? All three players think they are PG!!! Every one holds the ball for the majority of the game. Rose once complained his way out of a title contender because he wanted to be the point forward and have the offense run through him.

Webber will be hurt for the majority of the season, like he alwasy is, and lets remember this is NY! Injured players get hurt here. Thats just the way it goes. If you have a NY Knicks fan for a long time you know that damaged players get WORTH in NYC.

How many shos are there? Who will play D? This would be a freaking joke of a team, even worse of a joke then this team is.

ALL HYPE WOULD BE THE SLOGAN!!!
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
BRIGGS
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1/14/2005  2:32 AM
I think it is possible for Sacremento to trade Webber in the off season, but anyone with common sense who thinks about knows there is no way in hll that he will be moved during the year, especially when they just upgraded their offense.


Jalen Rose, well that would prove to me that all that rebuilding stuff is out the window, or like I believe was never there. Rose is hot and cold, hs not the same player of 5 years ago. He is just like the guys we have now, 25 points one night, 6 the next with poor defense. If this is how we are trying to win, if Isiah thinks that taking on another 15mm $ for this player is the way to go,thats thats.
seems like we are playing musical chairs with max contracts.

All we are going to do is rotating problems. Rose is the best talent of the 3, but is he addressing our needs> maybe a tad at the 3?? gives the club a bit more talent? but its still a non-structured rag tag mess.
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Stevo718
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1/14/2005  2:33 AM
I don't know how much of a cancer Rose is but...

he is a damn good ball player and he can play multiple positions.

Assuming we get rid of T.Thomas, P.Hardaway, Moochie, K.Thomas and get a big man in return I would then split JYD's playing time between PF and SF and split Rose's time at the 1,2,3.

BigMan/Nazir
Sweetney/BigMan/Nazir/JYD
Rose/Ariza/JYD
Crawford/Houston/Ariza/Marbury
Marbury/Rose/Crawford

9 man rotation with super flexibility. Everyone gets minutes. Ariza would probably get the least minutes, but that's okay he's young and still learning. Having Rose means that if anything goes wrong with Houston we could just give Ariza more minutes.
Rich
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1/14/2005  2:47 AM
We need the Penny's expiring contract to get a big man.
Stevo718
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1/14/2005  2:52 AM
I don't know I guess I'm just getting impatient and I wanna see another trade.

MAKE A TRADE ALREADY DAMN IT LOL.
raven
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1/14/2005  4:40 AM
this is sci-fi for me guys.

first fans rooting to get webber but now... this...

we need to stick to the plan.

- upgrade the 5, 4, and 3 via :
> the use of our expiring contracts
> a wise draft choice to build on the trend that netted us sweet and ariza
> buy good players on the cheap... shareef comes to mind, he's injured and in contract yr. chances that he won't get so many offers, most of good teams are over the cap
> cautous salary management, as our payroll is a joke, and an useless additional pressure on our team

Next yr we can get an upgrade in the paint, wich will magnify craw and marbury's strenghts.

comon isiah, let's build for the future !

NO PANIC MOVE, we were not expected to win it all this year, so why mortaging any flexibility to get a few more wins this year ?
Bonn1997
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1/14/2005  7:48 AM
Jalen Rose, well that would prove to me that all that rebuilding stuff is out the window
But this trade decreases our team's average age. You said that was a good way to judge if a team is rebuilding!

I don't know how much of a cancer Rose is but...
he is a damn good ball player and he can play multiple positions
He's not a cancer at all. He's the most talented 2 or 3 on Toronto, but he doesn't complain about coming off the bench because that's the role the coach wants for him. Guys who cared less about the team probably would complain.


We need the Penny's expiring contract to get a big man.
We do this trade and we still have $30 mil in expiring contracts this offseason. If you're getting a really good player, you can throw in any combination of our 1st rd pick, 2nd rd pick from Houston, Ariza, Sweetney, etc. We'll still have enormous trade assets over the offseason.
Andrew
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1/14/2005  8:36 AM
One thing is if we add Rose for Penny (or TT) it coincides the expiring contracts of Houston and Rose after the 06-07 season....not a bad idea.
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playa2
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1/14/2005  8:49 AM
"That trade only helps Miami," Charles Barkley said on TNT's NBA pre-game show last night. "The rest of them, that's just a waste of time."

A Toronto source told the Star's Doug Smith that it was preposterous that the Raptors would deal both Marshall and Rose for Hardaway, who has been used sparingly this season.

However, a source close to the Heat did suggest last night that Miami and Toronto have spoken about a deal that would include Marshall and a package of Miami players including young 6-foot-10 forward Malik Allen.


I thought Zeke never leaks his trades to the media anyway.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
joec32033
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1/14/2005  9:18 AM
After sleeping on this trade, I still do it, but I do have questions as to why other teams would do it....

Also, as Solace pointed out on another board, The contracts don't match. The fact that Donyell Marshall is being moved, throws the whole deal off by 7 or 8 million dollars. There have to be more players involved....

In this pay bracket, the players we have are KT, Craw, Nazr, and JYD
The Wolves have Hudson, Johnson, Olowakandi, Hassell, Cassell (Cassell may make a million or 2 too much)
Miami has not one contract theat lines up
Toronto still has Lammond Murray that makes about the same as Marshall, and just to throw it out there, Loren Woods makes about 1.5 million...
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franco12
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1/14/2005  9:30 AM
where did all this talk of Webber come in- is it wishful thinking or was there some news of this?

If you look at this as just a Rose for Penny deal (which would appear to be what is being talked in the news), I'm not sure how you can be against it.

Rose has one more year on his contract- that's not the end of the world, especially if you consider that Rose is currently productive.

Who knows when Houston will right himself; who knows if Tiny Tim will ever come back. Add one more reliable shooter, and I think it makes the team a lot better.

Rose will take Moochie's minutes and probably Tiny 'I have a Bruise' Tim's. Ariza is still going to find time.

And for those worried that Rose will be a team cancer, I doubt that Lenny or Isiah will allow that.
raven
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1/14/2005  9:35 AM
i feel lonely.
maybe we should trade for foyle, or fisher... or Kandi... we could have an overpaid underachieving bums squad.
joec32033
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1/14/2005  10:09 AM
When Aldridge first talked about a this trade..he called it a "monstrocity"..this trade seems streamlined to me....try this on for size...

New York trades: PF Vin Baker (1.4 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 0.1 apg in 7.8 minutes)
SG Anfernee Hardaway (5.8 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 1.9 apg in 22.0 minutes)
New York receives: C Loren Woods (4.5 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 0.4 apg in 18.5 minutes)
SG Jalen Rose (14.7 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 2.1 apg in 29.1 minutes)
PG Troy Hudson (8.1 ppg, 0.9 rpg, 3.1 apg in 18.4 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +20.1 ppg, +5.8 rpg, and +3.6 apg.

Toronto trades: C Loren Woods (4.5 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 0.4 apg in 18.5 minutes)
PF Donyell Marshall (10.0 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 1.2 apg in 24.3 minutes)
SG Jalen Rose (14.7 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 2.1 apg in 29.1 minutes)
Toronto receives: PF Vin Baker (1.4 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 0.1 apg in 7.8 minutes)
SG Anfernee Hardaway (5.8 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 1.9 apg in 22.0 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -22.0 ppg, -11.7 rpg, and -1.7 apg.

Miami trades: SG Eddie Jones (12.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 2.8 apg in 35.4 minutes)
Miami receives: SG Latrell Sprewell (12.0 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 2.0 apg in 31.0 minutes)
Change in team outlook: 0.0 ppg, -2.1 rpg, and -0.8 apg.

Minnesota trades: PG Troy Hudson (8.1 ppg, 0.9 rpg, 3.1 apg in 18.4 minutes)
SG Latrell Sprewell (12.0 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 2.0 apg in 31.0 minutes)
Minnesota receives: PF Donyell Marshall (10.0 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 1.2 apg in 24.3 minutes)
SG Eddie Jones (12.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 2.8 apg in 35.4 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +1.9 ppg, +8.0 rpg, and -1.1 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED
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eViL
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1/14/2005  10:14 AM
Posted by playa2:

"That trade only helps Miami," Charles Barkley said on TNT's NBA pre-game show last night. "The rest of them, that's just a waste of time."

A Toronto source told the Star's Doug Smith that it was preposterous that the Raptors would deal both Marshall and Rose for Hardaway, who has been used sparingly this season.

However, a source close to the Heat did suggest last night that Miami and Toronto have spoken about a deal that would include Marshall and a package of Miami players including young 6-foot-10 forward Malik Allen.


I thought Zeke never leaks his trades to the media anyway.

Someone check his post for authenticity.

---

Anyway, I don't think I'd do the deal, but if it happens - I'll hope for the best. I remember Jalen absolutely carrying the Pacers during the playoffs back in the day. He's more than capable of being great.
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franco12
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1/14/2005  10:25 AM
Posted by joec32033:

When Aldridge first talked about a this trade..he called it a "monstrocity"..this trade seems streamlined to me....try this on for size...

New York trades: PF Vin Baker (1.4 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 0.1 apg in 7.8 minutes)
SG Anfernee Hardaway (5.8 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 1.9 apg in 22.0 minutes)
New York receives: C Loren Woods (4.5 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 0.4 apg in 18.5 minutes)
SG Jalen Rose (14.7 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 2.1 apg in 29.1 minutes)
PG Troy Hudson (8.1 ppg, 0.9 rpg, 3.1 apg in 18.4 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +20.1 ppg, +5.8 rpg, and +3.6 apg.

Toronto trades: C Loren Woods (4.5 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 0.4 apg in 18.5 minutes)
PF Donyell Marshall (10.0 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 1.2 apg in 24.3 minutes)
SG Jalen Rose (14.7 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 2.1 apg in 29.1 minutes)
Toronto receives: PF Vin Baker (1.4 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 0.1 apg in 7.8 minutes)
SG Anfernee Hardaway (5.8 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 1.9 apg in 22.0 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -22.0 ppg, -11.7 rpg, and -1.7 apg.

Miami trades: SG Eddie Jones (12.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 2.8 apg in 35.4 minutes)
Miami receives: SG Latrell Sprewell (12.0 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 2.0 apg in 31.0 minutes)
Change in team outlook: 0.0 ppg, -2.1 rpg, and -0.8 apg.

Minnesota trades: PG Troy Hudson (8.1 ppg, 0.9 rpg, 3.1 apg in 18.4 minutes)
SG Latrell Sprewell (12.0 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 2.0 apg in 31.0 minutes)
Minnesota receives: PF Donyell Marshall (10.0 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 1.2 apg in 24.3 minutes)
SG Eddie Jones (12.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 2.8 apg in 35.4 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +1.9 ppg, +8.0 rpg, and -1.1 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Was this the trade being discuess or is this your take on it?

I mean, if we give up Penny & Vin Baker and get back Rose, Hudson & Woods, how can you not do it?
joec32033
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1/14/2005  10:28 AM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by joec32033:

When Aldridge first talked about a this trade..he called it a "monstrocity"..this trade seems streamlined to me....try this on for size...

New York trades: PF Vin Baker (1.4 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 0.1 apg in 7.8 minutes)
SG Anfernee Hardaway (5.8 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 1.9 apg in 22.0 minutes)
New York receives: C Loren Woods (4.5 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 0.4 apg in 18.5 minutes)
SG Jalen Rose (14.7 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 2.1 apg in 29.1 minutes)
PG Troy Hudson (8.1 ppg, 0.9 rpg, 3.1 apg in 18.4 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +20.1 ppg, +5.8 rpg, and +3.6 apg.

Toronto trades: C Loren Woods (4.5 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 0.4 apg in 18.5 minutes)
PF Donyell Marshall (10.0 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 1.2 apg in 24.3 minutes)
SG Jalen Rose (14.7 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 2.1 apg in 29.1 minutes)
Toronto receives: PF Vin Baker (1.4 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 0.1 apg in 7.8 minutes)
SG Anfernee Hardaway (5.8 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 1.9 apg in 22.0 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -22.0 ppg, -11.7 rpg, and -1.7 apg.

Miami trades: SG Eddie Jones (12.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 2.8 apg in 35.4 minutes)
Miami receives: SG Latrell Sprewell (12.0 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 2.0 apg in 31.0 minutes)
Change in team outlook: 0.0 ppg, -2.1 rpg, and -0.8 apg.

Minnesota trades: PG Troy Hudson (8.1 ppg, 0.9 rpg, 3.1 apg in 18.4 minutes)
SG Latrell Sprewell (12.0 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 2.0 apg in 31.0 minutes)
Minnesota receives: PF Donyell Marshall (10.0 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 1.2 apg in 24.3 minutes)
SG Eddie Jones (12.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 2.8 apg in 35.4 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +1.9 ppg, +8.0 rpg, and -1.1 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Was this the trade being discuess or is this your take on it?

I mean, if we give up Penny & Vin Baker and get back Rose, Hudson & Woods, how can you not do it?

This is my take using the principles DA said were involved...the actual trade was only Spree to Miami, Rose to NY, Penny to Toronto, and Jones and Marhall to Minny...this trade is financially unbalanced, so I plugged in some holes....

I agree if this is the trade, how can you not do it, and I look at the reported deal the same way...Penny for Rose...how can you not do it?
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Silverfuel
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1/14/2005  10:59 AM
Posted by Rich:

We need the Penny's expiring contract to get a big man.
Exactly!! thank you!!
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possible trade being discussed according to david alridge
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